| --- Log opened Wed Jul 16 00:00:03 2014 |
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| 02:22 | <&McMartin> | http://arstechnica.com/security/2014/07/only-a-few-days-old-openssl-fork-libress l-is-declared-unsafe-for-linux/ |
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| 13:10 | <@Azash> | http://www.madebymarket.com/blog/dev/ruby-web-benchmark-report.html |
| 13:10 | <@Azash> | I feel bad for anyone who reads this and decides to use JRuby and Rack |
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| 15:35 | <@ErikMesoy> | Not sure if I'm even asking the right thing: if I want several Python objects that are instances of the same class to have a shared "default" variable, I just declare it as a class variable by saying "default=5" in the class definition, right? And then would objects refer to, and change, that default with "Classname.default"? |
| 15:35 | <@ErikMesoy> | Trying to write a fallback procedure going to last known good object |
| 15:36 | <@Azash> | Doesn't python have constructor methods? |
| 15:36 | <@Azash> | Or do you want it to be easily accessible whenever? |
| 15:36 | <@Azash> | Just have the constructor set the default value and if you need it accessible whenever, do it with a static variable |
| 15:37 | <@ErikMesoy> | Python has constructor methods, but I want it shared among objects and I thought putting it in the constructor would result in each object having its own |
| 15:37 | <@Azash> | static_variable = 5 |
| 15:37 | <@ErikMesoy> | I may be misunderstanding something about when to use constructor and not using self, etc |
| 15:37 | <@Azash> | (in constructor) instance_variable = static_variable |
| 15:39 | <@ErikMesoy> | I want all objects referring to the same one. Sometimes the fallback will change, and should then change for each class. |
| 15:41 | <@ErikMesoy> | *for each object |
| 15:51 | <@ErikMesoy> | Elsewhere: I am trying to make a defaultdict which has a default value of "False" for any key not in its list of keys. This is failing, because "False" isn't callable. Is the right thing to do something like defaultdict(lambda foo:False), or another kind of collection that doesn't come to mind just now? |
| 15:57 | <@Azash> | Oh if you want them all to access the same value then it's just a static variable |
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| 16:15 | | * ErikMesoy drives the abstractor tractor. |
| 16:50 | | * ErikMesoy crackles with flour! It works! The abstractor tractor refactor was successful! |
| 16:50 | <@ErikMesoy> | (But it only works in a basic way. So I don't qualify to crackle with power yet.) |
| 16:55 | <&jeroud> | ErikMesoy: I find dict.setdefault() much more useful than defaultdict. |
| 16:57 | <&jeroud> | Your earlier question seems to indicate the desire for something like a singleton. |
| 16:58 | | Kindamoody|out is now known as Kindamoody |
| 16:58 | <&jeroud> | There are very occasionally good reasons to do that, but usually there's a better way to solve the higher level problem. |
| 17:04 | <@ErikMesoy> | jeroud: I thought a singleton was when a class is only allowed to have one object. I'm looking to have several objects, call them "boxes", which keep track of a FallbackBox to use if the current box can't store more doodads. When a box is emptied out, it becomes the FallbackBox. |
| 17:04 | <@ErikMesoy> | FallbackBox seems like it should be something like a class variable of the Box class. |
| 17:05 | <&jerith> | ErikMesoy: That's why I said "something like". |
| 17:05 | <&jerith> | What does a box do? |
| 17:06 | <@ErikMesoy> | Picks up objects matching some pattern; if an object is wrongly picked up that doesn't match the pattern or which won't fit in the box, the object should be diverted to the fallback box. |
| 17:08 | <&jerith> | I'd probably handle that by passing the fallback to the new box object's constructor. |
| 17:09 | <&jerith> | Maybe have a box factory of some kind that passes the same falback to all boxes it creates. |
| 17:09 | <&jerith> | +l |
| 17:09 | <@ErikMesoy> | How would a box go about becoming the fallback box and communicating this to other boxes when it empties out? |
| 17:10 | <&jerith> | Oh, wait. I think I misunderstood. |
| 17:11 | <@ErikMesoy> | The set of available boxes is not arbitrarily extendable in my case. |
| 17:11 | <@ErikMesoy> | So "construct new box" can't be a default solution. |
| 17:11 | <&jerith> | You have multiple boxes. Each box has a fallback that it puts things into when it's full and things are added? |
| 17:12 | <&jerith> | But when a box is emptied, it becomes the fallback for all the other boxes? |
| 17:12 | <@ErikMesoy> | When a box is emptied, it *can* become the fallback for the others. Boxes are things like Toybox, ClothesHamper, etc. Some kinds of small boxes should not become the fallback even when they are emptied. |
| 17:13 | <&jerith> | Hrm. |
| 17:13 | <&jerith> | What's putting things in boxes? |
| 17:14 | <&jerith> | I'm not sure it should be the box's responsibility to know about fallbacks. |
| 17:14 | <@ErikMesoy> | User action sending command to box. |
| 17:15 | <&jerith> | I think I'll need to know a little more about the system to offer useful advice. |
| 17:15 | <@ErikMesoy> | I agree that it might be something else which should know about the fallback: item being picked up, or user profile. |
| 17:17 | <&jerith> | Depending on the complexity and generality, a rules-and-tags decision engine might be appropriate. |
| 17:18 | <&jerith> | Or it might be way too much. |
| 17:18 | <@ErikMesoy> | Also: setdefault won't work in my case, but thanks. |
| 17:18 | <&jerith> | What decides which box to put a thing into in the first place? |
| 17:18 | <&jerith> | (Before any fallback stuff, that is.) |
| 17:19 | <&jerith> | Because the fallback decision probably belongs there. |
| 17:19 | <@ErikMesoy> | One box is "active" at any given moment; only items that match that box's constraints are supposed to be pick-up-able. |
| 17:19 | <@ErikMesoy> | Picked-up items do a sanity check to see if they actually go into that box, else fallback. |
| 17:21 | <&jerith> | Maybe you need to look for other boxes that are legal targets for an item and use one of those as a fallback. |
| 17:21 | <&jerith> | Perhaps picking the emptiest or something. |
| 17:23 | <&jerith> | Does that make sense? |
| 17:25 | <@ErikMesoy> | No, that might pick something which fouls up the system in ways that start to distort the "box" metaphor, and I think I had better modularize this a bit more because it's insufficiently self-contained and too long to non-impractically explain how it really works. |
| 17:25 | <@ErikMesoy> | Thanks for the advice. |
| 17:25 | <&jerith> | Cool. |
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| 18:01 | <@ErikMesoy> | "int x; x=3" compresses to "int x=3" and in duck typing or similar contexts, just "x=3". In Python, does "def Method(); foo=Method" compress to anything like "foo = def Method()"? |
| 18:10 | <&ToxicFrog> | ErikMesoy: "compress" is poorly defined the way you're using it. |
| 18:11 | <&ToxicFrog> | If you're asking "are python anonymous function definitions as expressive as def", the answer is "ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha not even slightly" |
| 18:11 | <@ErikMesoy> | So I can't set a variable to a nontrivial method without a separate method declaration first. |
| 18:11 | <&ToxicFrog> | I.e. 'def foo(): ...' is not isomorphic to 'foo = lambda ...', because def is strictly more expressive than lambda, despite functions being ostensibly first-class. |
| 18:12 | <&ToxicFrog> | Correct. |
| 18:13 | <&jerith> | ErikMesoy: If your functions all have a similar form, you can write a factory that returns closures or something. |
| 18:14 | <@ErikMesoy> | Oooh,this might be my first non-toy use of a factory. |
| 18:14 | <&jerith> | I like factories. |
| 18:15 | <&jerith> | They're very useful things. |
| 18:15 | <&jerith> | They have a bad reputation because of convoluted frameworks that require lots of boilerplate. |
| 18:16 | <&jerith> | I should probably say that I'm using "factory" in the general sense of "thing that constructs and returns a value". |
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| 18:53 | <@ErikMesoy> | My derp of the day: "if var in (0,n)" instead of "if var in range(0,n)". Spent quite a bit of effort trying to figure why certain elements were failing. (^_^) |
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| 20:34 | <@ErikMesoy> | Is it a code smell if I declare an object of class Object? And if so, is there some obvious thing I should usually be doing instead? |
| 20:35 | <&jerith> | What are you using it for? |
| 20:35 | <&jerith> | Instances of object() are often useful as placeholders, for example. |
| 20:36 | <@ErikMesoy> | Holding variables in an intuitive-sounding quasi-namespace. The Object objects have no functions, just attributes. They have names like "PointlessTrivia" so that I can access the variable PointlessTrivia.AmountOfMilkSpilled. |
| 20:37 | <&jerith> | Is this Python code? |
| 20:37 | <@ErikMesoy> | Yes. |
| 20:37 | <&jerith> | You can't put arbitrary attributes on instances of object(). |
| 20:39 | <@ErikMesoy> | No, but I can put them on a generic subclass of object(). |
| 20:39 | <&jerith> | You might want collections.namedtuple(). |
| 20:39 | <@ErikMesoy> | The subclass is just Foo(object):pass |
| 20:40 | <&jerith> | I'd usually use a dict for stuff like that, but sometimes an object makes more sense. |
| 20:41 | <&jerith> | I also have an AttrDict implementation that I use in places. |
| 20:42 | <@ErikMesoy> | AttrDict? That sounds like an idiot-resistant way of holding data which returns the same things for AttrDict[key] and AttrDict.key |
| 20:42 | <&jerith> | (The actual implementation varies, but it's usually a subclass of dict() with __getattr__ and sometimes __setattr__ on it.) |
| 20:43 | <&jerith> | It has the advantage that you can get at the things stored in it easily. |
| 20:45 | <&jerith> | It has the disadvantage that dict() has a bunch of methods on it that get in the way of using those as keys. |
| 20:51 | | * abudhabi buys some RAM, box stops working upon insertion, does not work upon removal. |
| 20:51 | < abudhabi> | All I get is beeps on startup: Long, long, short, short, long, short. |
| 20:52 | <&jerith> | Does the manual say anything? |
| 20:53 | < abudhabi> | Trying to find one. |
| 20:53 | <@froztbyte> | It says you need to live on the dole |
| 20:53 | <@froztbyte> | Amongst other things |
| 20:53 | | Kindamoody is now known as Kindamoody[zZz] |
| 20:54 | <&ToxicFrog> | abudhabi: look up [<name of your bios> beep codes] on google. |
| 20:54 | <&ToxicFrog> | Or download the manual for your motherboard and check that. |
| 20:54 | <@froztbyte> | (really though: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_manual) |
| 20:55 | <@froztbyte> | Ugh, stupid spacing thanks to SwiftKey |
| 20:56 | < abudhabi> | I forget what my BIOS is. I'd normally check by booting the box, but that's off the table. |
| 20:56 | < abudhabi> | Checking for manufacturer of motherboard, I get "1-3-2 64KB RAM failure- The test of the first 64KB RAM has failed to start". |
| 21:00 | < abudhabi> | I get the same error when the RAM is removed entirely. |
| 21:11 | <&jerith> | https://twitter.com/saltstackinc/status/489502034635132928 |
| 21:13 | <@TheWatcher> | abudhabi: CMOS reset, then try again |
| 21:18 | < abudhabi> | Ugh, I wish there were a well-labeled "Reset CMOS" button. |
| 21:19 | <@Tamber> | It's probably a header with a jumper on it, buried somewhere near some other headers. |
| 21:20 | <@Tamber> | (I was pleasantly surprised to find mine actually has a button; and it's pretty well-labelled.) |
| 21:20 | <@TheWatcher> | Egads, what madness is this?! |
| 21:21 | <@Tamber> | I know! It's almost like they expect people might need it at some point; and won't have the time or inclination to dismantle the whole machine to find it! |
| 21:22 | <@froztbyte> | jerith: hah |
| 21:27 | < abudhabi> | OK, found two jumpers. PSWD_JMP and RTCRST. |
| 21:30 | < abudhabi> | TheWatcher: Thanks, that worked. |
| 21:31 | < abudhabi> | The box works again, with the regular RAM loadout. Now to figure out what I did wrong. |
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| 21:39 | < Harlow> | i've never tried this before, would a statement like this work as a logical operation? language is javascript. |
| 21:40 | < Harlow> | return (singleItemCheck(a) == true && singleItemCheck(b) == true); |
| 21:43 | <@TheWatcher> | why not just do return (singleItemCheck(a) && singleItemCheck(b)), but otherwise, yes. |
| 21:45 | < Harlow> | does that return a single value and evaluate them there? i mean if (true && false) what is returned? false i hope? |
| 21:45 | < abudhabi> | Hmm. I can't seem to ge the new RAM to be recognized. |
| 21:45 | < abudhabi> | Or, well, counted. |
| 21:46 | <@TheWatcher> | yes, false will be returned. |
| 21:46 | < Harlow> | abudhabi is your ram over-clocked? |
| 21:46 | < Harlow> | cool, ill give that a whirl then. |
| 21:46 | < abudhabi> | Harlow: What do you mean? |
| 21:47 | < Harlow> | a few things can cause ram not to show up. |
| 21:47 | < abudhabi> | I have four old 512 bricks and two new 1024 bricks. In a O/O/N/N/O/O config, I get counted as 1 GB RAM total, and BIOS properly identifies what's slotted in. |
| 21:47 | < abudhabi> | But doesn't actually use for some reason. |
| 21:47 | < Harlow> | do you know if the slots are 1/1/2/2/3/3? |
| 21:48 | < abudhabi> | They're black black white white black black. And numbered 1 2 3 4 5 6. |
| 21:48 | < Harlow> | hm, what mb? |
| 21:48 | < Harlow> | and what i was asking is if all the ram was the same clock speed |
| 21:49 | < abudhabi> | Dell 0XC837. |
| 21:51 | < abudhabi> | How do I tell what clock speed they are? |
| 21:52 | < Harlow> | it should be on the chips |
| 21:52 | < abudhabi> | Also, what does ECC mean? |
| 21:53 | < Harlow> | Error correcting code |
| 21:53 | < Harlow> | if you're using ECC ram all of it has to be ECC buffered. |
| 21:54 | < abudhabi> | Right. The new RAM is detected as ECC "no" whereas the old is ECC "yes". |
| 21:55 | < Harlow> | you can probably turn ECC off and get the extra 2 GB working. |
| 21:55 | < Harlow> | there is probably a setting for that |
| 21:55 | < abudhabi> | Old: 512MB 1Rx8 PC2-3200R-333-12 |
| 21:56 | < abudhabi> | New: 1GB 1Rx4 PC2-5300P-555-12-H0 |
| 21:58 | < abudhabi> | What is memory rank? |
| 22:00 | < Harlow> | ok so your old ram runs at 400Mhz |
| 22:00 | < Harlow> | and the New ram runs at 667MHZ |
| 22:00 | < Harlow> | so I'm thinking the problem is the speed difference, I'm not 100% though. |
| 22:01 | < abudhabi> | Is that fixable short of buying the correct speed RAM this time? |
| 22:02 | <@Tamber> | Shouldn't they both run at the slower speed, in that case? |
| 22:03 | < abudhabi> | That's what I would assume. |
| 22:03 | < Harlow> | they should. |
| 22:04 | < Harlow> | if not you might try modifying the clock speed of the ram yourself in bios, that might do it. |
| 22:12 | < abudhabi> | UGH. |
| 22:13 | < abudhabi> | I'm finding that this box does not support non-ECC memory at all. |
| 22:13 | < abudhabi> | Crap. |
| 22:16 | < abudhabi> | Ugh. With the original configuration, the box refuses to start. I'll deal with this another day. |
| 22:36 | <@ErikMesoy> | Argh. A thing is not being initialized, and I have too many nested methods and callable objects to easily determine where it should get initialized. |
| 22:58 | < Harlow> | :/ |
| 23:21 | < Harlow> | will a break in a function called in a switch statement break the switch when returned? |
| 23:22 | <&McMartin> | No. |
| 23:25 | < Harlow> | yeah i guess that wouldn't make too much sense. |
| --- Log closed Thu Jul 17 00:00:19 2014 |