| --- Log opened Thu Jun 26 00:00:40 2014 |
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| 01:55 | <~Vornicus> | My goodness, that is a lot of hex grid information. |
| 01:55 | | * Vornicus bookmarks that sucker |
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| 02:26 | <&McMartin> | Hrm |
| 02:26 | | * McMartin writes down his mental design doc for Coreflight. |
| 02:27 | <&McMartin> | https://hkn.eecs.berkeley.edu/~mcmartin/games/coreflight.txt |
| 02:28 | <&McMartin> | This is a "broad" design doc that's gotten some drilling-down done as I experiment with stuff. |
| 02:28 | <&Derakon> | What platform are you targeting, C64? |
| 02:31 | <&McMartin> | Yeah, this is based on C64 stuff |
| 02:31 | <&McMartin> | Otherwise scrolling the frame would not take longer than a VBLANK~ |
| 02:32 | <&McMartin> | Also unlike the NES it has hardware collision detection, so the part where it does game things I'm hoping will actually be super-straightforward~ |
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| 02:32 | <&McMartin> | But Vorn has lamented getting lost in spec work in the past so I figured I'd write down what my idea of a "brief" design doc was. |
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| 02:41 | <&McMartin> | Anyway, yeah, Coreflight is really mostly an excuse to try out some techniques I've never used. |
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| 02:41 | <&McMartin> | - full screen scrolling |
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| 02:41 | <&McMartin> | - hardware collision detection |
| 02:41 | <&McMartin> | - custom hooks for raster and timer interrupts independently |
| 02:41 | <&Derakon> | You should make everything in the game use palette rotation too~ |
| 02:41 | <&McMartin> | - Generic sound effect engine |
| 02:41 | <&McMartin> | The palette doesn't lend itself well to that |
| 02:42 | <&McMartin> | That's an MCGA trick~ |
| 02:42 | <&Derakon> | Ah, alas. |
| 02:42 | <&McMartin> | It's not 16 colors out of some larger number, it's just "here are your 16 colors". |
| 02:42 | <&McMartin> | The 8-bit Apples were similarly constrained |
| 02:43 | <&McMartin> | Full-screen scrolling requires me to deploy techniques I've not only never used but never even seen published examples of. |
| 02:43 | <&McMartin> | (Though it was clearly *being* used by games with full-screen scrolling~) |
| 02:43 | <&McMartin> | Of which there were not a Hell of a lot, so maybe it *was* some kind of Secret Technique |
| 02:44 | <&McMartin> | Generic sound effect engine I've had several failed attempts at, which is why it's on the "maybe try this last" |
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| 02:57 | <~Vornicus> | Bounder! |
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| 02:57 | <&McMartin> | Cad? |
| 02:59 | <~Vornicus> | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YmveFn1jGrk check *this* shit out. |
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| 03:02 | <&Derakon> | That looks familiar. |
| 03:02 | <~Vornicus> | I may have linked it before |
| 03:02 | <&Derakon> | I think it must be one of the innumerable games that my dad pirated and that I was absolutely terrible at. |
| 03:02 | <~Vornicus> | or that |
| 03:05 | <~Vornicus> | but even now looking at it I have no idea how the hell they managed it |
| 03:13 | <&McMartin> | Wow |
| 03:13 | <&McMartin> | Yeah, I only have a handful of theories. |
| 03:14 | <&McMartin> | Initial speculations: (a) They are *tiling* double-sized sprites across the screen to be the platforms |
| 03:14 | <&McMartin> | (b) they have somehow utterly mastered bitmapped mode |
| 03:20 | <~Vornicus> | My guess -- and this is a terrible, terrible guess -- is that each frame they're rolling bytes for the background patterns |
| 03:22 | <~Vornicus> | This lets them use vertical screen scrolling using characters. |
| 03:26 | <~Vornicus> | You only have four colors, as far as I can see, for both foreground and background. Then you have the black lines above the score box -- they black the colors and then have a few precious hblanks to rejigger the video so they can display the score box nicely. |
| 03:28 | <~Vornicus> | This doesn't explain how they manage the bonuses popup. |
| 03:30 | <~Vornicus> | ...unless... ...the bonuses popup is synchronized to the ball counce, which actually appears to be synchronized to screen advancement. |
| 03:40 | <~Vornicus> | So they can always show the bonuses popup at the moment it'd be easiest to show... or perhaps just show it "near" the center |
| 04:18 | | macdjord|out is now known as macdjord |
| 04:39 | <&McMartin> | Vorn: So, you can do a full pan of the screen up to one character |
| 04:39 | <&McMartin> | And then they could copy from a backbuffer to the front with bitmaps |
| 04:40 | <&McMartin> | Hmmm |
| 04:40 | <&McMartin> | I suppose I *could* just try to run it in an emulator and study the hardware registers |
| 04:40 | <&McMartin> | But that is not a task for tonight |
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| 06:25 | <&McMartin> | New theory for Bounder: they are smooth-scrolling the background with no change to the core background (every 8 rows it repeats so you don't need to update the background, just reset scroll values to 0, basically), and then they have 8 characters per "tile" for entering/leaving, and those are cunningly updated each frame. |
| 06:48 | <@Reiv> | what |
| 06:53 | <~Vornicus> | Reiv: we're looking at a game that does full-screen scrolling, with parallax, on a Commodore 64. |
| 06:54 | <@Reiv> | I saw that |
| 06:54 | <@Reiv> | I notice that the main screen has scrolling text SFX too |
| 06:54 | <@Reiv> | This I would suspect is Not A Coincidence |
| 06:54 | <@Reiv> | And it's pretty smooth; my wonder is whether they're playing highjinks with scanlines. |
| 06:55 | <~Vornicus> | Indeed. That's not that hard comparatively, though setting the scroll vlues with good timing is, as mcm has demonstrated, a little tricky |
| 06:55 | <&McMartin> | The issue is that parallax requires layering techniques that, for the most part, the C64 flatly did not have |
| 06:57 | <@Reiv> | I see |
| 06:58 | <@Reiv> | That's gonna make a heck of a blogpost once you reverse engineer it, isn't it~ |
| 07:00 | <&McMartin> | I'm not sure I'm going to be able to, and I'm in no shape to try just yet. |
| 07:01 | <@Reiv> | Fair |
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| 07:01 | <&McMartin> | The ball and the enemies are clearly sprites |
| 07:01 | <&McMartin> | The cards look like they're the size of sprites, but there are, I think, too mnay of them. |
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| 07:07 | | * McMartin cheats, checks Internet forums. |
| 07:07 | <&McMartin> | Bounder is redefining the charset every frame, depending on the relative distance between the cards and the ground. |
| 07:09 | <@Reiv> | lolwut |
| 07:10 | <@Reiv> | I though the charset took Longer Than That. |
| 07:12 | <&McMartin> | Preload it, change the charset pointer each frame |
| 07:13 | <&McMartin> | Once preloaded it's fast enough you can even do it in BASIC. |
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| 07:26 | <@Reiv> | Neat |
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| 12:49 | | * TheWatcher stabs CSS in the head |
| 12:50 | | * McMartin gets his smooth scrolling mostly working! |
| 13:08 | <@TheWatcher> | Why does this fucking div have space above it?! ARGH |
| 13:08 | <@Azash> | It wants room to ascend, in order to fuel its personal aspirations |
| 13:11 | < Syka> | TheWatcher: because it has a space |
| 13:11 | < Syka> | TheWatcher: remove all whitespace between tags |
| 13:11 | <@TheWatcher> | I did |
| 13:12 | < Syka> | hm |
| 13:12 | < Syka> | what does the developer tools box model thingy say? |
| 13:12 | < Syka> | if it says 0px padding/margin, plus the container, then something weird is going on |
| 13:12 | <@Azash> | ding ding ding.. |
| 13:13 | <@TheWatcher> | Syka: guess what! |
| 13:13 | < Syka> | it's all 0px? |
| 13:13 | <@TheWatcher> | Yes. |
| 13:13 | < Syka> | hmm. |
| 13:13 | < Syka> | in FF and chrome? |
| 13:13 | <@TheWatcher> | Nah, just chrome right now, I'm going to deal with ff later |
| 13:13 | < Syka> | right |
| 13:13 | < Syka> | because if you have it in both, you have standards-compliant weirdness |
| 13:13 | <@TheWatcher> | but I've worked around it anyway |
| 13:14 | < Syka> | rather than a possible layout bug |
| 13:14 | <@TheWatcher> | Just gone for floaty trickery instead. |
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| 13:48 | | * Azash eyes. Completed 302 Found in 1065556.6ms (ActiveRecord: 231701.2ms) |
| 13:57 | <@gnolam> | 18 minutes. Impressive. |
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| 15:00 | <@Azash> | http://oracles.mpi-cbg.de/ |
| 15:02 | <@TheWatcher> | ... now they're just taking the piss. |
| 15:02 | <@Azash> | How dare you doubt the yeastacle? |
| 15:05 | <@gnolam> | :D |
| 15:46 | | * Azash profiles the slow query |
| 15:47 | <@Azash> | %self total self wait child calls name |
| 15:47 | <@Azash> | 2.84 80.321 80.321 0.000 0.000 104992424 Integer#to_i |
| 15:47 | <@Azash> | yyyyyyeeeaaaahhhhh. |
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| 17:02 | | * gnolam discovers that Notepad++ can let you copy and paste with syntax highlighting. |
| 17:02 | <@gnolam> | Sweet. |
| 17:03 | <@gnolam> | That makes the whole "teach colleagues a new programming language over email" thing a lot easier.~ |
| 17:04 | <&ToxicFrog> | ...how does it preserve the hilighting? |
| 17:07 | <@gnolam> | I haven't checked the source, but I'm guessing it registers a Rich Text Format clipboard format. |
| 17:08 | <@TheWatcher> | hrm |
| 17:08 | <@gnolam> | (The default copy copies text only, but the built-in plugin "NppExport" lets you copy the highlighting as well) |
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| --- Log closed Fri Jun 27 00:00:56 2014 |