| --- Log opened Mon Jun 16 00:00:17 2014 |
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| 04:18 | < Harlow> | has anyone looked into using the new Swift scripting/coding language for iOS? |
| 04:19 | < Reiv_> | They came out with another language? |
| 04:20 | < Harlow> | swift |
| 04:29 | < Turaiel> | It's not so much a new language as an abbreviated Objective-C |
| 04:30 | < Turaiel> | It's "Objective-C without the C" |
| 04:33 | < Harlow> | I've used it a little bit, not having semi colons is odd to say the least. |
| 04:36 | < Turaiel> | The lack of semicolons isn't exactly a new thing though. You clearly haven't used Python :P |
| 04:37 | <@celticminstrel> | Is it "Objective-C without the C", or "Cocoa without the Objective-C"? |
| 04:37 | < Harlow> | I've used python 2 years ago for a class, but i enjoy strongly typed languages |
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| 05:08 | <~Vornicus> | python is strongly typed |
| 05:08 | <~Vornicus> | it's not statically or manifestly typed though |
| 05:08 | <@celticminstrel> | Manifestly? |
| 05:09 | <~Vornicus> | C is manifestly typed; every variable has a thing that tells you what type it's going to be. |
| 05:09 | <@Namegduf> | So static but not manifest is type inference. |
| 05:09 | <@celticminstrel> | I see. |
| 05:09 | <@celticminstrel> | So C++ is static but not (necessarily) manifest. |
| 05:13 | <~Vornicus> | strong vs weak is more "what type casts are done"; PHP is very weakly typed, it will try very hard to make things into numbers or strings or whatever it needs |
| 05:15 | <~Vornicus> | whereas Python is quite strongly typed; the only automatic conversions it does are between number types, which basically everything (well, everything with more than oen numeric type) does anyway) |
| 05:16 | <@Namegduf> | Go is one of the exceptions there I know of. |
| 05:16 | <@Namegduf> | (All casts between types not sharing the same underlying type are explicit.) |
| 05:16 | <@Namegduf> | But definitely most, yeah. |
| 05:16 | <@Namegduf> | Java will do some number type conversions automatically, too. |
| 05:16 | <@Namegduf> | Widening, I think. |
| 05:17 | <~Vornicus> | Yes. |
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| 05:29 | <~Vornicus> | Static vs Dynamic typing is about whether the type of thing a variable is can change: can I assign a string to that and now it's a string? |
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| 05:40 | <&McMartin> | Mostly. Even statically-typed languages can admit variant types. |
| 05:43 | <~Vornicus> | vb even calls it that |
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| --- Log closed Mon Jun 16 08:52:36 2014 |
| --- Log opened Mon Jun 16 08:52:44 2014 |
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| 16:23 | < mrcko> | hello guys |
| 16:23 | < mrcko> | can someone help me out? |
| 16:23 | < mrcko> | i hae this code: http://pastebin.starforge.co.uk/635 |
| 16:24 | < mrcko> | the compiler ends with this error: warning: format â%sâ expects argument of type âchar *â, but argument 2 has type âintâ [-Wformat] |
| 16:26 | <@celticminstrel> | Line number of the error? |
| 16:26 | <@celticminstrel> | 70? |
| 16:27 | <@celticminstrel> | On line 10 you seem to be missing a * |
| 16:28 | < mrcko> | error on 70.3 |
| 16:28 | < [R]> | mrcko: you should use puts () not printf |
| 16:28 | < mrcko> | and line 10 is ok? |
| 16:28 | < [R]> | Also yes ypur return typw is wrong |
| 16:29 | < [R]> | No. Line 10 os wrong. |
| 16:30 | <&ToxicFrog> | aaaaaaaaa |
| 16:30 | < mrcko> | and what is wrong with line 10? |
| 16:30 | <&ToxicFrog> | There is a lot wrong with this. |
| 16:30 | <&ToxicFrog> | sprintf() returns the number of characters written, not the buffer it wrote them to. |
| 16:31 | <&ToxicFrog> | Even if you did return the buffer, you stack-allocated it, so it won't exist anymore once the function returns. |
| 16:31 | <&ToxicFrog> | Also, the indentation appears to be completely random, which isn't helping. |
| 16:31 | < mrcko> | and can you tell me how can i return a string with the temp? |
| 16:32 | <&ToxicFrog> | Also, it looks like what it's actually doing is reading a float from the sensor, so why not have it return that float, rather than an (imprecise) string representation of it? |
| 16:33 | < mrcko> | yeah ok, i will return the float. |
| 16:33 | < mrcko> | wait a second |
| 16:34 | < mrcko> | i will return double, but how can i print this double in my main() method? |
| 16:34 | <&ToxicFrog> | (to return a string, you either heap-allocate it and transfer ownership to the caller, or you have the caller pass in a buffer to fill, but here just returning the float is a better option, I think) |
| 16:34 | <&ToxicFrog> | printf("Read value from sensor: %f\n", thedouble) |
| 16:36 | <&ToxicFrog> | printf supports the same formats as sprintf, it's the same underlying mechanism. |
| 16:36 | < mrcko> | ok, thank you ! |
| 16:38 | <&ToxicFrog> | (see also 'man printf') |
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| 16:39 | < mrcko> | can you explain me how can i save ds1820read("xxxxx") in an variable as string? |
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| 16:40 | <&ToxicFrog> | mrcko: as in, given the float it returns, you want a string representation of it? |
| 16:40 | < mrcko> | yes |
| 16:40 | < mrcko> | i need an string to send it to a display |
| 16:40 | <&ToxicFrog> | Same way you were doing earlier, except (a) use snprintf, not sprintf, and (b) be careful where you allocate and use it this time. |
| 16:41 | <&ToxicFrog> | And (z) are you sure you actually need this? Does the display give you a file handle you can fprintf() to, or its own printf-like interface? |
| 16:41 | < mrcko> | look at the code for writing to display: |
| 16:42 | < mrcko> | http://mjoldfield.github.io/pi-tm1638/tm1638_8h.html#af5e58bdfba2c28a60b98db2f96 176b06 |
| 16:42 | <&ToxicFrog> | Ok, yeah, in that case create a buffer, snprintf into it, and immediately hand it off to set_text |
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| 16:44 | <&ToxicFrog> | 11:42 < mrcko> http://mjoldfield.github.io/pi-tm1638/tm1638_8h.html#af5e58bdfba2c28a60b98db2f96 176b06 |
| 16:44 | <&ToxicFrog> | 11:42 <&ToxicFrog> Ok, yeah, in that case create a buffer, snprintf into it, and immediately hand it off to set_text |
| 16:44 | < mrcko186> | i have some problems with this chat applet |
| 16:45 | <&ToxicFrog> | You could probably write your own tm1638printf() function wrapping it, using vsnprintf(), if you wanted to |
| 16:46 | < mrcko186> | i would if i could. i am not good in c. i learned only php and some python code. But this display code is in C. |
| 16:47 | < mrcko186> | and i dont know how to pass the string to this tm1638 function |
| 16:47 | < mrcko186> | and if you could explain me that(in code) that would be cool :) |
| 16:49 | <&ToxicFrog> | Welcome to string management in C, aka hell |
| 16:49 | <&ToxicFrog> | Anyways, I have no idea what the t and dots arguments do |
| 16:49 | < mrcko186> | hahah |
| 16:49 | <&ToxicFrog> | But the const char * str argument is the string to display |
| 16:49 | < mrcko186> | tm1638_set_7seg_text(t, printf("%.2f", ds1820read("28-000005569d94")), 0x08); |
| 16:49 | <&ToxicFrog> | nope nope nope |
| 16:49 | < mrcko186> | t is not the problem, is a pointer for the display |
| 16:49 | <&ToxicFrog> | printf() formats a string and prints it to stdout |
| 16:50 | < mrcko186> | ok |
| 16:50 | < mrcko186> | what else? |
| 16:50 | < mrcko186> | sprintf? |
| 16:50 | <&ToxicFrog> | snprintf() takes a buffer, formats a string into it, and returns the length of the string |
| 16:50 | < mrcko186> | ok i will try |
| 16:50 | <&ToxicFrog> | So you need to create a buffer, call snprintf() to fill it with the actual text, and then pass that to set_7seg |
| 16:52 | <&ToxicFrog> | E.g: char buf[MAX_7SEG_SIZE+1]; snprintf(buf, sizeof(buf), "%f", ds1820read("28-000005569d94")); tm1638_set_7seg_text(t, buf, 0x08); |
| 16:52 | <&ToxicFrog> | The buf is stack-allocated here so it'll automatically be freed when the function returns |
| 16:53 | < mrcko186> | yeah man. it works |
| 16:53 | < mrcko186> | thank you very very very much :) |
| 16:53 | < mrcko186> | greeting from Austria :) |
| 16:53 | < mrcko186> | and C is nothing for me... |
| 16:57 | < mrcko186> | thanks. i have to go. |
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| 17:22 | <@RchrdB> | I wonder how that person found this channel? |
| 17:22 | <@RchrdB> | ToxicFrog, well done. |
| 17:53 | <&ToxicFrog> | Thanks. I don't use C much these days, but I used to use it a great deal. |
| 17:53 | <&ToxicFrog> | And all of my graduate work was C-on-wacky-embedded-systems. |
| --- Log closed Mon Jun 16 17:56:54 2014 |
| --- Log opened Mon Jun 16 17:58:10 2014 |
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| 21:01 | | Kindamoody|out is now known as Kindamoody |
| 21:03 | <@ErikMesoy> | Hmm, time for me to consider picking university courses for the fall. What looks good on a resume? |
| 21:04 | <@Azash> | Big data, data stores, agile/devops methods |
| 21:04 | <@Azash> | WSC if you have anything on that |
| 21:04 | <@ErikMesoy> | WSC? |
| 21:04 | <@Azash> | Warehouse-scale computing |
| 21:04 | <@ErikMesoy> | ahh |
| 21:05 | <@Azash> | Basically a fancy synonym for Puppet and Chef |
| 21:07 | <@ErikMesoy> | My CS courses so far have been: Introduction to OO programming, OO programming, System development, Logical methods for compsci, Programming for natural science applications, Introduction to databases, Introduction to language and communication technology. A mix of Java, C and Python have been used to date. |
| 21:08 | <@Azash> | Well it depends on what you'd like to see yourself doing |
| 21:08 | <@Azash> | Software engineering, some other private sector work, academia in some sector.. |
| 21:09 | <@ErikMesoy> | I'm trying to figure out where to go from here, because I don't envision myself being anywhere specific. So I'm looking at the world's course demand to ask "what looks good on a resume?", and my courses so far to ask "where can I take this?" |
| 21:10 | <@ErikMesoy> | I also have an interdisciplinary (Math/CS): Modelling, plotting and calculation. And a bunch of math courses up to group theory. |
| 21:10 | <&McMartin> | Heh. Was just about to ask "What's your non-CS study like?" |
| 21:10 | <&McMartin> | Group theory is surprisingly useful but not directly - the mode of thought for abstract algebra helps when adapting data structures to new domains |
| 21:11 | <@ErikMesoy> | Yeah, I wasn't expecting it to be useful, just giving it as a benchmark, although past calculus I suppose things start to drift into irrelevancy |
| 21:11 | <&McMartin> | Is "language and communication technology" compilers/program analysis or rudimentary natural language processing? |
| 21:11 | <@ErikMesoy> | The latter. |
| 21:12 | <@ErikMesoy> | Write basic tree parsers, stemmers, lexers, naive bayes analysis, etc |
| 21:12 | <@Azash> | McMartin: Group theory also helps you pervert your brain for SQL |
| 21:12 | <&McMartin> | Azash: Also monads! |
| 21:12 | <&McMartin> | >_> |
| 21:12 | <&McMartin> | ErikMesoy: Oh! Did you actually use flex/bison/CUPS/etc? |
| 21:12 | <@Azash> | My knowledge of monads is limited to "those wandering desert people" |
| 21:12 | <&McMartin> | That's "nomads" |
| 21:12 | <@Azash> | That is, in fact, the joke |
| 21:13 | <&McMartin> | Erik: If so that's actually a big part of the useful takeaway from compiler work |
| 21:13 | <&McMartin> | Azash: Sorry, it's Monday here |
| 21:13 | <@ErikMesoy> | McMartin: huhwhat? it was language processing, not compilers |
| 21:13 | <@Azash> | Still Monday for 45 minutes \o/ |
| 21:13 | <&McMartin> | Compilers involve, at the introductory level, basic tree parsers, lexers, etc. |
| 21:13 | <@ErikMesoy> | Ah |
| 21:14 | <@ErikMesoy> | Well, I can see how the knowledge would transfer |
| 21:14 | <@ErikMesoy> | When does a [phrase/token] start |
| 21:14 | | * Azash recommends the ECMA standard as a gentle introduction |
| 21:14 | <&McMartin> | Yeah. And then at the middle level things like dataflow analysis, which wouldn't show up in natural language |
| 21:14 | <&McMartin> | Anyway, the two "obvious" gaps here from an academic standpoint are graphics and AI |
| 21:14 | <@Azash> | Gentle, much in the same way as an eastern bloc, former olympic 300-pound dominatrix |
| 21:16 | <&McMartin> | ErikMesoy: Do you have any experience with non-OO development paradigms? |
| 21:16 | <@ErikMesoy> | McMartin: No. |
| 21:17 | <@ErikMesoy> | (I assume we're not counting practical jokes like writing my name in Brainf***.) |
| 21:17 | <@Azash> | I resent the idea of brainfuck being a joke |
| 21:17 | <&McMartin> | No, I mean something like a functional language (ML, Lisp, Haskell) or a logic programming language (Prolog). |
| 21:17 | <&McMartin> | Azash: Well, it's a degenerate case, much like Unlambda. |
| 21:17 | <@Azash> | On the contrary, it is a very good tool for understanding Turing machines and training your own sense of logic |
| 21:17 | <@ErikMesoy> | Fiddled about with Lisp a decade ago. |
| 21:18 | <&McMartin> | And I was halfway through objecting that unlike Unlambda it isn't good at what it claims to be |
| 21:18 | <@ErikMesoy> | I remember lamenting the lack of defun when I got to university and they were teaching Java |
| 21:18 | <&McMartin> | Heh. |
| 21:18 | <@ErikMesoy> | Then I sort of got some of it back in Python |
| 21:18 | <&McMartin> | Yep |
| 21:18 | <@Azash> | If only you had started with C and reimplemented Lisp using preprocessor macros |
| 21:18 | <@Azash> | >_> |
| 21:18 | <&McMartin> | Python has most of the important parts in it |
| 21:19 | <&McMartin> | Azash: You would have the backend for Gambit! |
| 21:20 | <@Azash> | Haha |
| 21:20 | <&McMartin> | (Have I mentioned that Gambit is insanely good? Because Gambit is insanely good) |
| 21:20 | <&McMartin> | (It's a full scheme, including first-class continuations. o_O) |
| 21:20 | <@Azash> | The game theory stuff? |
| 21:21 | <&McMartin> | Er, Scheme, the Lisp dialect |
| 21:21 | <@Azash> | Ah |
| 21:21 | <&McMartin> | first-class continuations is basically what you get if you take setjmp/longjmp and make them *actually work*, which results in a strange sanity-blasting code construct that is powerful enough to represent co-routines and exceptions with the same basic notion |
| 21:22 | <@ErikMesoy> | The Oslo University degree default setups look like this: http://www.uio.no/studier/program/elektronikk-data/oppbygging/ you can see in 1. semester, it lists things like "INF1100" (INF=informatics aka comp sci) and you can presumably recognize the word "programmering". |
| 21:22 | <@ErikMesoy> | But later it's all "Se ønsket studieretning", which means "See desired direction of study", and I'm having trouble finding good advice. |
| 21:22 | <@Azash> | Find an advisor |
| 21:22 | <&McMartin> | Not for nothing is call-with-current-continuation often referred to as call-with-cthulhu-invocation |
| 21:22 | <@Azash> | Like a lecturer or researcher who does things you find interesting |
| 21:22 | <@Azash> | At the least you'll get words of advice, at best a RA/TA position |
| 21:22 | <&McMartin> | And yeah, I basically ended up getting into compilers, personally, because I got along well with the local profs who did that stuff |
| 21:22 | <@ErikMesoy> | Mmhm. |
| 21:23 | <@ErikMesoy> | McMartin: So what is this flex/bison stuff? |
| 21:23 | <@ErikMesoy> | And who picks these names. :V |
| 21:23 | <@Azash> | I'm guessing bison is a GNU joke |
| 21:24 | <@Azash> | What was it again? the makefile parser? |
| 21:24 | <@ErikMesoy> | I'm finding something on compilers and parsers when I search. |
| 21:24 | <@ErikMesoy> | But I'm finding umpteen different things because the name is so generic. |
| 21:28 | <@ErikMesoy> | McMartin, when you asked if I'd done non-OO programming, was that more of an encouragement to do it or just state inquiry? |
| 21:28 | | * ErikMesoy is inspecting and weighing some university courses teaching that. |
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| 21:42 | <&McMartin> | ErikMesoy: I think it's very important to know non-OO paradigms to be a skilled programmer. |
| 21:42 | <&McMartin> | I'm not, however, convinced that formal training is required, though it helps if you're completely new to it. |
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| 21:51 | <~Vornicus> | I still haven't figured out what the hell "OO programming" is |
| 21:54 | <@Namegduf> | It's where you make a jigsaw. |
| 21:54 | <@Namegduf> | The objective is to break your code into internally isolated units whose APIs and functions are so incredibly specific and narrow they fit exactly together into the shape of the program. |
| 21:54 | <@Azash> | Object-oriented |
| 21:55 | <@Azash> | In practice, it's a different scoping system |
| 22:03 | <@TheWatcher> | Oh, hey, two weeks to The Rhesus Chart is released |
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| --- Log closed Tue Jun 17 00:00:05 2014 |