| --- Log opened Fri Jan 17 00:00:08 2014 |
| 00:31 | | McMartin [mcmartin@Nightstar-rpcdbf.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #code |
| 00:31 | | mode/#code [+ao McMartin McMartin] by ChanServ |
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| 01:02 | < Thalass> | I quite like QT |
| 01:09 | < RichyB> | Qt the app framework? |
| 01:16 | < Thalass> | Yus. |
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| 01:29 | | * McMartin wraps op project PROFANITY PROVISIONER |
| 01:37 | < Thalass> | That sounds like a great program for google glass. It could suggest profanity to use when it detects that you're interacting with someone. It'd be like word-a-day for a tourette's sufferer. |
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| 01:40 | <&McMartin> | My Laundry-style codenames need work |
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| 02:36 | <@gnolam> | Yes. |
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| 03:08 | < Thalass> | Whisky seems to affect my typing ability. |
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| 03:19 | <@gnolam> | It should. |
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| 07:25 | < Harlow> | Um scary question guy, what can cause a computer to boot. from being off. Without having a start time set in bios. |
| 07:28 | <@Tamber> | Wake On Lan packets? |
| 07:28 | < Harlow> | :S you can do that. |
| 07:28 | <@Tamber> | ? |
| 07:28 | < Harlow> | is it a special packet? |
| 07:29 | <@Tamber> | For some definition of special. |
| 07:29 | | * Tamber kerpoofs off to work |
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| 09:17 | < JustBob> | You know, in retrospect... |
| 09:17 | < JustBob> | Looking at my code from last year... |
| 09:17 | < JustBob> | Maybe I should have named my variables fcA, fcB, fcC, cqu, and cqv. |
| 09:18 | < JustBob> | Shouldn't have, that is. |
| 09:18 | < JustBob> | Because, uh. |
| 09:18 | < JustBob> | I have no fucking idea what the HELL they mean anymore. |
| 09:22 | <@froztbyte> | you remember those comments that you snerked about not using? |
| 09:25 | < JustBob> | You mean the ones I snerked about over-using to the point where I was writing about three lines of comment per line of code? |
| 09:26 | < JustBob> | (More realistically, I can easily read what my variables mean. It's just that, after a year or so, the /equation/ they're in blurs when it's something like 'cqv(i) = fcS(i) + (cqv(i-1)*fcA(i-1))/cqu(i-1);' |
| 09:35 | < JustBob> | There is no god. |
| 09:35 | < JustBob> | The example code I have is in Fortran. |
| 09:35 | < JustBob> | What the fuck is gam. |
| 09:36 | < JustBob> | the... Gamma function, apparently. |
| 09:38 | <@froztbyte> | hahaha |
| 09:38 | <@froztbyte> | no no |
| 09:38 | <@froztbyte> | I believe you were throwing hilarious comments in, rather than explanatory ones |
| 09:40 | < JustBob> | frozt - This does not preclude there being actually useful data. |
| 09:40 | < JustBob> | I mean, 'Iterates the iteration counter by one in order to facilitate the future iterations of this loop' is still useful in going, 'Yeah, we added one.' |
| 09:41 | <@froztbyte> | ah |
| 09:41 | < JustBob> | Now, the cookie recipe, I admit was hilarious. |
| 09:41 | <@froztbyte> | hehehe |
| 09:41 | < JustBob> | I should figure out how to get my code to rickroll someone |
| 09:42 | <@TheWatcher> | Make your comments into an acrostic, the first word of each line forming the lyrics |
| 09:43 | < JustBob> | This requires, alas, significantly more in the way of creative commenting than I have brain for, since this is due in eight hours and is still throwing errors at me. |
| 09:43 | < JustBob> | I was thinking about throwing it into the background of my plots or something. :p |
| 09:44 | < JustBob> | (Although, amusingly, I have added more functionality than required. I have a /dynamic/ file input now! You can go beyond mere predefined data!) |
| 09:44 | < JustBob> | (Err, precoded data, that is.)_ |
| 09:45 | < JustBob> | Actually... |
| 09:45 | < JustBob> | I do have an interesting question. |
| 09:46 | < JustBob> | So. Would it be more computationally efficient to create a 10^5 element array at the start, or dynamically create it? |
| 09:46 | < JustBob> | If I don't know how many of those I'm going to fill, I mean. |
| 09:46 | <&McMartin> | 10^5 is kind of chickenshit, isn't it? That's not even a meg |
| 09:46 | < JustBob> | I'm iterating to a limit of 1e5, but I /expect/ that I'm only going to need 1e2 or so iterations to converge. |
| 09:47 | < JustBob> | I was just going to go with a dynamic one, myself. |
| 09:47 | <&McMartin> | "those numbers are so small these days do whichever, maaaan" |
| 09:47 | < JustBob> | But everyone keeps telling me that preallocating things is faster. |
| 09:47 | <&McMartin> | It is. Reallocation carries an amortized cost. |
| 09:47 | < JustBob> | McM - In theory, this code is scalable to billions of iterations. |
| 09:48 | < JustBob> | In reality, I would laugh if I tried to do that on this machine. |
| 09:48 | <@froztbyte> | hageshii% time python -c 'for i in range(0,10**5): pass' |
| 09:48 | <@froztbyte> | python -c 'for i in range(0,10**5): pass' 0.03s user 0.01s system 66% cpu 0.060 total |
| 09:48 | < JustBob> | Also realize that I'm using the hilariously computationally inefficient beast known as MatLab. |
| 09:48 | <&McMartin> | Sure |
| 09:48 | <&McMartin> | But loops to 100,000 are not a hell of a lot, and haven't been for 20 years |
| 09:49 | <@froztbyte> | hageshii% time python -c '[1 for i in range(0,10**5)]' |
| 09:49 | <@froztbyte> | python -c '[1 for i in range(0,10**5)]' 0.04s user 0.02s system 90% cpu 0.067 total |
| 09:50 | <&McMartin> | I was doing 50,000 step loops on Commodore 64s. Until you're processing a least a few tens of millions of items, it shouldn't be a problem at human scales, even with MATLAB. Hell, even with BASIC. |
| 09:50 | <@froztbyte> | hageshii% time python -c 'import random; [random.uniform(0,10**5)%i for i in range(1,10**5)]' |
| 09:50 | <@froztbyte> | python -c 'import random; [random.uniform(0,10**5)%i for i in range(1,10**5)] 0.13s user 0.01s system 91% cpu 0.158 total |
| 09:50 | < JustBob> | Ah, fuckit, I'll preallocate and laugh. |
| 09:50 | <@froztbyte> | I didn't feel like not-fucking that last one |
| 09:51 | < JustBob> | I can always OC this machine if I really need to. :p |
| 09:51 | <@froztbyte> | so it's cheating |
| 09:51 | <@froztbyte> | but yeah, that amount is tiny |
| 09:51 | <@froztbyte> | this is a 6 year old machine I'm on |
| 09:51 | <@froztbyte> | hageshii% grep 'model name' /proc/cpuinfo |
| 09:51 | <@froztbyte> | model name : AMD Athlon(tm) 64 X2 Dual Core Processor 6400+ |
| 09:51 | <@froztbyte> | model name : AMD Athlon(tm) 64 X2 Dual Core Processor 6400+ |
| 09:52 | < JustBob> | This is the danger of letting engineers with minimal coding knowledge write code. |
| 09:53 | < JustBob> | We get fixated on optimizing to the fifth decimal place. :3 |
| 09:53 | <&McMartin> | Oh, geeze, shit, I forgot to actually state that |
| 09:53 | <&McMartin> | I probably should, you're a *real* engineer |
| 09:53 | <@froztbyte> | rofl |
| 09:53 | <&McMartin> | Preallocating optimizes for *time* |
| 09:53 | <&McMartin> | Incremental allocation optimizes for *space* |
| 09:53 | <@froztbyte> | so here's the thing, bob |
| 09:53 | <&McMartin> | And there's a tradeoff |
| 09:53 | <@froztbyte> | you're *actually asking* |
| 09:54 | <@froztbyte> | that's a pretty damned significant difference. |
| 09:54 | <&McMartin> | But these numbers are small so you should optimize for "minimum number of fucks necessary to give" |
| 09:54 | < JustBob> | (Also, I changed my itmax to 1e4, because fuck 1e5.) |
| 09:54 | <&McMartin> | (The three grand axes of optimization) |
| 09:54 | <@froztbyte> | McMartin: you forgot the 4th tenet |
| 09:54 | <@froztbyte> | "Whose problem will this be?" |
| 09:55 | < JustBob> | The TA's problem when he tries to run my code and realizes that I use completely nonstandard libraries. :p |
| 09:55 | <@froztbyte> | that's not a mandatory one necessarily |
| 09:55 | <@froztbyte> | and good people typically assume themselves or an otherwise right answer |
| 09:55 | <@froztbyte> | but some folks go "here's some good. glhf." |
| 09:58 | < JustBob> | ...fucker, the previous coder used 'while' |
| 09:58 | < JustBob> | That makes doing this annoying. |
| 09:59 | <&McMartin> | http://thecodelesscode.com/case/116 |
| 10:00 | <@froztbyte> | heee |
| 10:00 | <@froztbyte> | so true |
| 10:00 | < JustBob> | Well, I generally prefer for x:y loops, with terminating conditions. |
| 10:00 | < JustBob> | I detest while x && y && z |
| 10:01 | < JustBob> | I mean, functionally, they're the same, and I'm aware that for loops are less efficient. |
| 10:01 | <@froztbyte> | I'm rather unclear about what that second one is |
| 10:01 | <@froztbyte> | but |
| 10:01 | < JustBob> | But they make more visual and logical sense to me. |
| 10:01 | <@froztbyte> | to shit on your breakfast |
| 10:01 | <@froztbyte> | consider this example |
| 10:01 | <@froztbyte> | host1$ cat /dev/urandom | nc host2 1234 |
| 10:01 | <@froztbyte> | host2$ nc -l -p 1234 > /dev/null |
| 10:01 | < JustBob> | You lost me at host1$. |
| 10:02 | <@froztbyte> | unix/linux command example |
| 10:02 | <@froztbyte> | the short summary is that one host sends a continuous stream of data, the other reads a continuous stream of data |
| 10:02 | <@froztbyte> | the start and stop conditions are outside of the data itself (remains in process country, "do I feel like still sending data") |
| 10:03 | <&McMartin> | Is Matlab "for" like C "for" or like Python "for"? |
| 10:03 | <&McMartin> | Because C "for" and "while" *are* just "different spellings of the same thing" |
| 10:04 | <&McMartin> | But Python for vs. while do have the distinction you state |
| 10:04 | <@froztbyte> | in this kind of example, a while(read(socket(...))) would make sense (in thinking) |
| 10:04 | <@froztbyte> | but yeah, also what McMartin said |
| 10:04 | < JustBob> | for i = 1:nRegions; |
| 10:04 | < JustBob> | celltrackhigh = celltrackhigh + tempnCells(i); |
| 10:04 | < JustBob> | for j = celltracklow:celltrackhigh; |
| 10:04 | < JustBob> | D(j) = tempD(i); |
| 10:04 | < JustBob> | SigA(j) = tempSigA(i); |
| 10:04 | < JustBob> | nuSigF(j) = tempnuSigF(i); |
| 10:04 | < JustBob> | dx(j) = tempdx(i); |
| 10:04 | < JustBob> | end |
| 10:04 | < JustBob> | celltracklow = celltrackhigh + 1; |
| 10:04 | < JustBob> | end |
| 10:04 | <@froztbyte> | because in C, for (;;); do ; done |
| 10:04 | <@froztbyte> | is basically just aaaaal the time |
| 10:04 | < JustBob> | that would be a for: blah in matlab. |
| 10:04 | <@froztbyte> | s/l /ll / |
| 10:07 | < JustBob> | I don't have a handy while for matlab |
| 10:07 | < JustBob> | Though I may ditch that chunk entirely and write something new |
| 10:07 | < JustBob> | because, uh. |
| 10:08 | < JustBob> | It makes more sense that way. :p |
| 10:08 | <&McMartin> | Always workable. |
| 10:08 | <&McMartin> | while is, IIRC, powerful enough on its own to represent any possible computation, but "bounded for loops" are not. |
| 10:09 | <&McMartin> | On the other hand, bounded for loops never become infinite! |
| 10:09 | <@froztbyte> | ...by themselves |
| 10:09 | < JustBob> | Actually, looking at some older code, I figured out where I can incorporate the two. |
| 10:09 | < JustBob> | For the terminal conditions of while, but letting me track internally what I want. |
| 10:09 | < JustBob> | This makes more sense in my head, I swear. |
| 10:11 | <&McMartin> | You'll have made *enough* sense once you have code tha tdoes it :D |
| 10:11 | <&McMartin> | It's a super-effective engineering-style definition of a vague philosophical concept! |
| 10:11 | <&McMartin> | The best of all worlds. |
| 10:11 | | * McMartin *may* be loopy on fatigue toxins. |
| 10:18 | < JustBob> | I'm right there with you. :p |
| 10:18 | < JustBob> | ANd now that I reread my older solving code. |
| 10:18 | < JustBob> | It actually makes sense. |
| 10:18 | < JustBob> | Fuck you tridiagonal matrixes. |
| 10:46 | < JustBob> | ... |
| 10:46 | < JustBob> | hork |
| 10:46 | < JustBob> | Operands to the || and && operators must be convertible to logical scalar values. |
| 10:46 | < JustBob> | ^- I don't even. |
| 10:47 | < JustBob> | while (dk>keps) && (dFS>FSeps) && iterations<maxiterations; <- apparently, while 1>1e-5 and 1>1e-4 and 1<1e4... |
| 10:47 | < JustBob> | DOes not make sense. |
| 10:48 | <&McMartin> | Um |
| 10:48 | <&McMartin> | What if you put parens around (1e-5)? |
| 10:48 | <&McMartin> | It would be really depressing if it was going (1-1e)-5. |
| 10:48 | <&McMartin> | Er |
| 10:48 | <&McMartin> | (1 > 1e)-5 |
| 10:48 | <@froztbyte> | hey |
| 10:48 | < JustBob> | It's not. |
| 10:48 | <@froztbyte> | > iis higher up than - |
| 10:49 | <@froztbyte> | totally legit parsing! |
| 10:49 | <@froztbyte> | s/iis/is/ |
| 10:49 | < JustBob> | And I think the math error is later in the while statement, now that I look at it. |
| 10:49 | <@froztbyte> | (sorry, I've got a troll hat on( |
| 10:49 | <@froztbyte> | )* |
| 10:49 | < JustBob> | Yup, it was later. |
| 10:50 | < JustBob> | I was trying to tell it to compare NaN's to scalars. :| |
| 10:50 | < JustBob> | Now to find where the fucking NaNs are from. |
| 10:53 | < JustBob> | Whelp, apparently I have an infinitely supercritical nuclear reactor. |
| 10:54 | <&McMartin> | NaNNaNNaNNaNNaNNaNNaNNaNNaNNaNNaNNaNNaNNaNNaNBatman |
| 11:04 | < JustBob> | Whelp, figured that one out. |
| 11:04 | < JustBob> | However, now my smoothly exponential curves look like they were drawn by a spastic. |
| 11:34 | < JustBob> | pft |
| 11:34 | < JustBob> | I change random variables around |
| 11:34 | < JustBob> | and suddenly |
| 11:34 | < JustBob> | it works! |
| 11:34 | < JustBob> | VOILA. |
| 11:34 | < JustBob> | FUCK. YOU. MATLAB. |
| 11:42 | <&McMartin> | The night gremlins strike. |
| 11:55 | < JustBob> | I admit that I basically went and did a fancy extra set of things I really didn't need to. |
| 11:55 | < JustBob> | But what the hell. |
| 11:55 | < JustBob> | It was fun. |
| 11:56 | <@TheWatcher> | You have a strange and masochistic concept of fun~ |
| 11:56 | <@TheWatcher> | (Says the guy who habitually codes in Perl...) |
| 11:59 | < JustBob> | Well |
| 11:59 | < JustBob> | I basically set up my code so that it could open any input file of the appropriate format. |
| 12:00 | < JustBob> | As well as letting you specify a specific output file. |
| 12:00 | < JustBob> | And the input file could be of as much data as you wanted, as long as it was in the right format. |
| 12:00 | < JustBob> | The "requirement" for the code is to just handle specified inputs. |
| 12:00 | < JustBob> | But mine can, in theory, go to infinity. |
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| 12:10 | < JustBob> | Sigh. Now it's fussing about not letting me put double-precision numbers in tables. |
| 12:10 | < JustBob> | What. |
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| 12:13 | < RichyB> | Trying to make things *not* happen in Linux userland is a futile quest. |
| 12:13 | <@froztbyte> | ? |
| 12:14 | < RichyB> | Suspend/resume on my laptop is fucked, panic on resume. |
| 12:14 | < RichyB> | Sucks, but fine, I can live without that. |
| 12:14 | < RichyB> | Try googling "disable linux suspend". |
| 12:15 | < RichyB> | There are easily a dozen different mechanisms for making suspend happen/not happen, about half of which are in-use on any given machine, about half of which are about half-documented, and even then it's all a waste of time because there might be a purely-in-kernel-ACPI-event-handler adding to my woe, maybe. |
| 12:16 | < RichyB> | The only *actually* feasible way of disabling this is to compile a kernel without suspend/resume. x_x |
| 12:19 | < RichyB> | that or pry the f4 key off this keyboard⦠|
| 12:37 | <@TheWatcher> | So, just build the kernel without suspend, then >.> |
| 12:39 | < RichyB> | Yes that's nice I will just sit here with my thumb up my arse and opt-out of all future automatic kernel security patches |
| 12:39 | <@TheWatcher> | ... wha |
| 12:39 | < RichyB> | If I am building my own kernels⦠|
| 12:40 | < RichyB> | â¦I do not get automatic kernel upgrades through yum⦠|
| 12:40 | <@TheWatcher> | I have a single system I don't build my own kernels on: my phone |
| 12:40 | <@TheWatcher> | You can't get it to automatically fetch the kernel sources, and then just build it again after updates? |
| 12:42 | < RichyB> | This seems like the kind of path that ends with me finding myself accidentally running Gentoo |
| 12:43 | <@TheWatcher> | And coming up next on Hyperbole Today...~ |
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| 15:50 | <@Shiz> | I run gentoo |
| 15:58 | < RichyB> | Bless you. |
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| 16:45 | <@froztbyte> | http://qdb.slipgate.za.net/FlyingCircus/58 |
| 16:49 | <&ToxicFrog> | TheWatcher: so, which non-source-based distros will let you seamlessly switch from "update installs the latest kernel" to "update downloads and builds the latest kernel sources with my configuration and then installs the result"? |
| 16:50 | <@froztbyte> | also keep in mind merging the buildconf since new kernels introduce new options... |
| 16:51 | <&ToxicFrog> | froztbyte: well, these days you can "make oldconfig" or whatever it is and it'll take the settings from the currently running kernel - settings that no longer exist + the default values of new settings |
| 16:52 | < RichyB> | ToxicFrog, nix is supposed to do that, I think. :) |
| 16:53 | < RichyB> | It also doesn't require you to build everything from source but does give you the option. |
| 16:53 | < RichyB> | If only I could figure out how to do anything with it |
| 16:53 | <&ToxicFrog> | Heh |
| 16:53 | <&ToxicFrog> | The closest SUSE gets is "update automatically downloads the latest kernel sources; it's up to you to build them and install the resulting RPM" |
| 17:43 | < [R]> | With a smallish amount of scripting, pacman (Arch Linux) can do that: abs down the sources (comes with the PKGBUILD [aka the file to make a package]), then makepkg -i |
| 17:43 | < [R]> | makepkg -i will compile and pack the package, -i makes it install after. |
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| 18:01 | | AbuDhabi_ [AbuDhabi@Nightstar-dpjndf.bb.online.no] has joined #code |
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| 19:41 | < JustBob> | I fail programming forever. |
| 19:41 | < JustBob> | "Well, you're obviously bored, so, I'll make the coding assignments more difficult in the future." |
| 19:41 | < JustBob> | "...all I did was add a graphical interface in MatLab, that's not boredom. That's masochism." |
| 19:42 | < JustBob> | "Still, if you had time to do it, you obviously need more work." |
| 19:42 | < AbuDhabi_> | If you're a masochist, you clearly want more punishment. |
| 19:43 | < JustBob> | Or, as #code can attest, the 4am 'hey that'd be kinda neat...' fatigue-poisons hit me. |
| 20:02 | | celticminstrel [celticminst@Nightstar-mhtogh.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #code |
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| 20:02 | <@froztbyte> | JustBob: I see you've discovered academia |
| 20:04 | <&ToxicFrog> | Best classname of the cat: CatExtractorFactory |
| 20:05 | <&ToxicFrog> | ...of the day |
| 20:07 | < ErikMesoy> | lol |
| 20:09 | <~Vornicus> | What is the cat being extracted from? |
| 20:10 | <@celticminstrel> | ... |
| 20:10 | | Turaiel[Offline] is now known as Turaiel |
| 20:18 | <&ToxicFrog> | Vornicus: GFW. |
| 20:18 | <&ToxicFrog> | GFS, rather. |
| 20:18 | <&ToxicFrog> | Wow, I fail at typing today. |
| 20:19 | < ErikMesoy> | Giant Furry Systems? |
| 20:21 | | Turaiel is now known as Turaiel[Offline] |
| 20:22 | <&ToxicFrog> | Google Filesystem. |
| 20:25 | < [R]> | Gordon Food Services delivers cats now? |
| 20:33 | < ErikMesoy> | Everything delivers cats on the internet now. |
| 20:35 | <@celticminstrel> | Why does Google have cats in their filesystem? |
| 20:36 | <@froztbyte> | where else would you keep them? |
| 20:39 | <&ToxicFrog> | Precisely. I mean, you need cats readily available in every datacenter, it's not like you can just shove them wherever |
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| 22:35 | <@Syloq> | ... |
| 22:40 | < AbuDhabi_> | He put his whole hand in there? |
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| 23:16 | | ErikMesoy is now known as ErikMesoy|sleep |
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| 23:27 | | Turaiel[Offline] is now known as Turaiel |
| --- Log closed Sat Jan 18 00:00:24 2014 |