| --- Log opened Mon Jan 06 00:00:56 2014 |
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| 05:10 | <@Tarinaky> | Am I the only one who thinks a Regexp Golf solver would be an actually useful tool? |
| 05:11 | <@Tarinaky> | I'm not sure what real-world problem it would solve though. |
| 05:13 | <~Vornicus> | You are the only one |
| 05:17 | <@Tarinaky> | But... what if you have a list of things you want to match - like the name of a former Libyan statesman. |
| 05:17 | <@Tarinaky> | Ghaddavy |
| 05:18 | <@Tarinaky> | Poor Erik had to figure out the Regexp for that by hand~ |
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| 06:08 | <@Tarinaky> | Does anyone have any resources for 3D maps, specifically subtractive? |
| 06:09 | <@Tarinaky> | Like... if I want to carve some sort of underground cave procedurally. |
| 06:12 | < [R]> | Use modified roguelike code? |
| 06:14 | <~Vornicus> | Or minecraft code. What you might want to do is 3d cylinders? |
| 06:16 | <@Tarinaky> | Roguelike code doesn't lend itself well to anything that isn't right-angular. |
| 06:16 | <@Tarinaky> | 3D cylinders? |
| 06:16 | <~Vornicus> | well, uh, cylinders |
| 06:17 | <@Tarinaky> | Yeah, I'm not entirely sure how that helps. |
| 06:17 | <~Vornicus> | But, yeah - make a network of points, carve the nodes with spheres and the edges with cylinders |
| 06:17 | < [R]> | Uhh... there are roguelikes with cavegen code. |
| 06:18 | < [R]> | Oh, except nm. Thought you wanted a block game for some reason. |
| 06:25 | <@Tarinaky> | Vornicus: That doesn't work very well when I /do/ want a straight line :p |
| 06:26 | <~Vornicus> | What do you mean? |
| 06:26 | <@Tarinaky> | I don't want to do something voxel based. |
| 06:26 | <@Tarinaky> | Doing cylinders instead of cubes doesn't... fix the issue. |
| 06:26 | <~Vornicus> | ah, well |
| 06:27 | <@Tarinaky> | Hence. Any resources/search keyword for defining a map by subtraction? |
| 06:27 | <~Vornicus> | csg |
| 06:30 | <@Tarinaky> | Cycling Sports Group? |
| 06:32 | <~Vornicus> | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constructive_solid_geometry |
| 06:32 | <@Tarinaky> | Thanks. |
| 06:32 | <~Vornicus> | Some game engines/editors work by giving you a solid universe, and you have polyhedral "brushes" that you subtract from that. |
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| 06:33 | <@Tarinaky> | I can barely get OpenGL 1.3 to work, never mind some fancy game engine :p |
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| 08:49 | | * Vornotron finally gets around to eyeing xkcd |
| 08:49 | < Vornotron> | Now I know why you were asking |
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| 10:29 | <@Tarinaky> | Vornicus: Checked the Codelesscode yet? |
| 10:31 | <~Vornicus> | Now I have |
| 10:31 | | * Vornicus pokes his feeds. |
| 10:33 | <~Vornicus> | I thought I'd added that one, apparently not |
| 10:41 | <@TheWatcher> | Idly, what do you use as a feed reader? |
| 10:43 | <~Vornicus> | feedly. |
| 10:43 | | * TheWatcher nod |
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| 11:49 | | * Vornicus solves a problem by writing a program that figures out what problem needs to be solved. |
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| 14:07 | <@Tarinaky> | https://research.microsoft.com/en-us/people/mickens/thisworldofours.pdf I am not sure how much I agree with the article |
| 14:16 | <@gnolam> | You mean you got a Thai man instead? |
| 14:16 | <@Tarinaky> | I ordered a Thai man. I got a Russian dominatrix. |
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| 14:36 | < RichyB> | Tarinaky, I think that you're right to doubt it. |
| 14:36 | <@Tarinaky> | I'm not sure I disagree with the article either. |
| 14:36 | < RichyB> | There are lots of people who have adversaries intermediate between "a child looking over your shoulder" and "the Mossad are attempting to assassinate you" |
| 14:37 | <@Tarinaky> | I... think a lot of those indermediates count about the same. |
| 14:37 | < RichyB> | e.g. drug dealers, anyone who is on a public wifi network |
| 14:38 | < RichyB> | There's a big difference between "the cops are trying to read your email" and "the NSA are trying to read your email" |
| 14:38 | < RichyB> | also a big difference between "the NSA are trying to read *your* email" and "the NSA are trying to read everyone's email" |
| 14:38 | <@Tarinaky> | Not for the great unwashed masses. |
| 14:38 | < RichyB> | it's easier to sidestep a dragnet than a search that is intently focussed on you with human beings in the loop |
| 14:39 | <@celticminstrel> | What article? |
| 14:39 | <@Tarinaky> | And... the main application of cryptography is to protect the great unwashed masses from credit card theft so that e-commerce can proceed... |
| 14:39 | < RichyB> | celticminstrel, https://research.microsoft.com/en-us/people/mickens/thisworldofours.pdf |
| 14:39 | <@Tarinaky> | Well, 'the main' is a bit of an overstatement., |
| 14:39 | <@Tarinaky> | But it is a big application! |
| 14:40 | < RichyB> | Tarinaky, yes that is the main one. |
| 14:40 | < RichyB> | The next biggest one is probably SSH. |
| 14:43 | <@Tarinaky> | Baring in mind the writer is a Systems/OS guy. It's fair to say that a lot of the complaints are /somewhat/ valid if Lusers are your primary stakeholder. |
| 14:43 | <@Tarinaky> | I'm not sure I agree or disagree with the article. I can only recommend you read it :p |
| 14:56 | <@celticminstrel> | Okay then! |
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| 15:46 | | * Thalasleep flop |
| 15:46 | | Thalasleep is now known as Thalass |
| 15:46 | < Thalass> | good mornings |
| 15:48 | < ErikMesoy> | Good afternoon |
| 15:53 | < ErikMesoy> | "This belief requires one to assume that, even though the most popular variable names are âthingâ and âthing2,â programmers will magically become disciplined software architects when confronted with a Dungeons-and-Dragons style type system..." |
| 15:53 | | * ErikMesoy approves of this writer |
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| 19:23 | < macdjord> | Anyone here done mobile app development? |
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| 20:43 | | * Derakon mutters. |
| 20:43 | <&Derakon> | Stupid reality. |
| 20:44 | <&Derakon> | The Cockpit (my microscope control program) supports the concept of software-enforced limits on how far motors can move. |
| 20:44 | <&Derakon> | This is expressed as a minimum and maximum position for the motor axis. |
| 20:44 | <&Derakon> | Now my boss tells me that our new sample holder requires safety limits that are non-rectangular. |
| 20:45 | <&Derakon> | (Specifically, they need to be two adjoined rectangles) |
| 20:45 | < ErikMesoy> | ...wut |
| 20:45 | <&Derakon> | Well, it makes sense. |
| 20:45 | <&Derakon> | The safety limits are there to keep the sample holder from whanging into the objective (i.e. primary lens) of the microscope. |
| 20:45 | <&Derakon> | Objectives are expensive. |
| 20:46 | <&Derakon> | And this sample holder is this weird fancy thing that can hold lots of different kinds of samples (e.g. dishes, well plates, or 3 slides side-by-side) |
| 20:46 | <&Derakon> | But due to a design limitation it's asymmetric. |
| 20:46 | <&Derakon> | And thus if you move it too far in Y when X is above some minimum value, you'll whang into the objective and be out $10k. |
| 20:52 | <@gnolam> | So. Next up: arbitrary polygons? |
| 20:53 | <&Derakon> | Well, it's gonna be a pain to implement, because all of the current safeties are implemented on a per-axis basis. |
| 20:53 | <&Derakon> | Thus the X axis doesn't care where the Y axis is. |
| 21:05 | < macdjord> | Derakon: And 'Using a funny-shaped holder may prevent you from getting as close as physically possible to some parts of your sample' isn't an acceptable restriction? |
| 21:07 | <&Derakon> | Uh, not sure I parsed your question properly, but here the issue is that due to holder shape, you cannot use the third slide in the "mount three slides" option without polygonal safeties. |
| 21:07 | <&Derakon> | Refusing to fix this in software would be kind of immature. |
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| 21:26 | <&Derakon> | Mm, best idea so far is to have some kind of validator object that just rejects movements that want to go through the forbidden zone, with the validator being custom-coded specific to this one microscope. |
| 21:26 | <&Derakon> | It wouldn't show up nicely in the UI, but oh well. |
| 21:30 | <&Derakon> | Yep, just ran that past the boss and he's okay with it. Phew. |
| 21:36 | < macdjord> | Derakon: So, wait - if you have the lense far enough back to be safe from the largest part of the sample holder, it's too far away to see the smallest part? |
| 21:37 | <&Derakon> | Um, I think you may be having visualization problems. |
| 21:37 | <&Derakon> | Imagine a rectangle, and a dot within the rectangle. |
| 21:37 | <&Derakon> | The dot represents the objective lens. |
| 21:37 | <&Derakon> | If it moves outside the rectangle, then it runs into the sample holder. |
| 21:37 | <&Derakon> | Or some other physical obstruction. |
| 21:37 | <&Derakon> | Point is, Bad Stuff happens. |
| 21:38 | <&Derakon> | Now in this particular case, the dot isn't in a rectangle; it's in a convex polygon formed by the overlap of two rectangles. |
| 21:38 | < macdjord> | Ah, 'k. I was immagining it being a rectange that you cannot go /into/. |
| 21:38 | <&Derakon> | Due to the odd sample holder shape. |
| 21:38 | <&Derakon> | Ah, no. |
| 21:39 | < macdjord> | And, I take it, you have to move right up to the edge of the box to image your sample? |
| 21:39 | <&Derakon> | I don't think so. |
| 21:39 | <&Derakon> | The box is defined fairly conservatively. |
| 21:39 | <&Derakon> | But there isn't anywhere near enough slack to get away with a rectangular "safe zone" here. |
| 21:40 | <&Derakon> | Rectangular approximations of the convex polygon would either allow you to break your objective, or would prevent you from seeing all of your sample. |
| 21:41 | < macdjord> | What I'm immagining here is "For safety reasons, you cannot get closer than x mm to the sample. (Note: If you have a funny shaped holder, there will be some parts that you cannot get within Y mm of.)" |
| 21:41 | <&Derakon> | Yeah, no, I can't get away with that. |
| 21:42 | <&Derakon> | Also, not sample. Sample holder. |
| 21:42 | <&Derakon> | The sample is a slide, or a dish, or something like that. |
| 21:42 | <&Derakon> | The sample holder is the framework that supports the sample so it's hanging in air above the objective. |
| 21:57 | <~Vornicus> | The point is to make it so the software knows the limitations. |
| 21:57 | <~Vornicus> | This is because humans are idiots |
| 21:58 | <~Vornicus> | When I worked on the comanche, we had a helmet-linked gun: you looked at something, the gun aimed at it. We put software in so the gun wouldn't aim at your own helicopter |
| 22:01 | <@Tamber> | Because if there's one thing you can be certain of, it's someone going "I wonder if..." |
| 22:01 | <&Derakon> | I read somewhere that an Air Force pilot once wrecked his extremely expensive jet by retracting the landing gear while landed. |
| 22:01 | <&Derakon> | Because he thought "Surely they have a safety to prevent this from working" and they didn't. |
| 22:02 | <~Vornicus> | I know there was a requirement for preventing landing gear retraction with weight on wheels |
| 22:02 | <@Tamber> | If you ever think nobody could be that stupid, then it's time to put something in to stop someone doing it, because someone *will* be that stupid. |
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| 22:09 | <@gnolam> | And this is what Murphy's Law is all about. |
| 22:11 | <~Vornicus> | They just keep building better idiots |
| 22:14 | <&McMartin> | Yay, the *real* Murphy's Law |
| 22:14 | <&McMartin> | Also, Derakon, don't you *have* a fancy polygonal collision algorithm courtesy JetBlade? |
| 22:15 | <&Derakon> | Oh, the math is no problem. |
| 22:15 | <&Derakon> | I can just do a couple of line-line intersection tests. |
| 22:15 | <&Derakon> | What I was worried about mostly was figuring out how to build a GUI that allowed for specification of same with a good degree of precision, and then cleanly handling multi-axis motion logic. |
| 22:15 | <&Derakon> | Since there's a lot of cases in the program where we say "Just move this axis" or the like. |
| 22:16 | <&Derakon> | But per my boss this doesn't need to be done to that kind of standard. |
| 22:16 | <&Derakon> | I can just hock a validator onto the device-specific code for this one microscope, using hardcoded vertices for the polygon. |
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| 22:51 | <&Derakon> | (Now my problem is that all movement actions are done one axis at a time, but may be issued while other axes are moving...so I have to keep track of the destination in addition to the current position, when validating moves) |
| 22:51 | <&Derakon> | (But that I can do. It's just a pain) |
| 22:56 | | Thalass is now known as Thalass|snakey |
| 23:11 | | Turaiel[Offline] is now known as Turaiel |
| 23:18 | | * Thalass|snakey makes progress! reads more about lists etc. |
| 23:21 | < Thalass|snakey> | House all to myself. What am i going to do? Code like a monkey! |
| 23:21 | < Thalass|snakey> | (because that's my skill level) |
| 23:22 | <&Derakon> | Eek eek. |
| 23:22 | <&McMartin> | ook['eek'] |
| 23:23 | < Thalass|snakey> | :P |
| 23:23 | <&McMartin> | ... |
| 23:23 | <&McMartin> | "In May of 2005, then graduate student A. Dorai at MIT publicized and held a convention for time travelers. No one claiming to come from the future showed up. S. Hawking did a similar experiment in July of 2012, holding a personal party for time travelers, but sending out the invitations only after the party. No one claiming to be a time traveler showed up." |
| 23:23 | <&McMartin> | Ladies and gentlemen, SCIENCE. |
| 23:24 | <@gnolam> | Thalass|snakey: http://www.dangermouse.net/esoteric/ook.html |
| 23:24 | <@gnolam> | McMartin: heh |
| 23:24 | <@gnolam> | Is it from that "investigating time travellers" paper? |
| 23:24 | < Thalass|snakey> | I love that, gnolam |
| 23:25 | <&McMartin> | gnolam: probably |
| 23:25 | <&McMartin> | http://arstechnica.com/science/2014/01/detecting-time-travelers-on-the-internet- is-remarkably-difficult/ |
| 23:25 | <@gnolam> | Ah, yes. |
| 23:25 | <@gnolam> | That one. |
| 23:26 | <&McMartin> | re: Ook: oy |
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| 23:28 | <&Derakon> | It's basically programming with ternary tuples. |
| 23:28 | <&Derakon> | And to be fair, base-3 is a highly efficient way to represent information~ |
| 23:28 | <&Derakon> | (Much more compact than base-2 but without the explosion in number of glyphs that higher bases require) |
| 23:29 | <&McMartin> | BF is not a very convenient language. |
| 23:29 | <&Derakon> | For whom~? |
| 23:29 | <&Derakon> | It's very easy to write interpreters for! |
| 23:29 | | * macdjord gives McMartin the Obvious Statement of the Year award |
| 23:30 | <&Derakon> | So soon? It's only January. |
| 23:30 | <~Vornicus> | base 2 is "best" in a lot of ways: the big one is that there are no non-trivial entries in the multiplication table |
| 23:30 | < macdjord> | Derakon: Why do you think he won~ |
| 23:33 | <&ToxicFrog> | That reminds me, the IOCCC 2013 results are out. |
| 23:33 | <&ToxicFrog> | Including a complete 8086 PC emulator with peripherals in 4043 bytes of source. |
| 23:33 | <&ToxicFrog> | There's also the grand C++ error explosion competition, at http://tgceec.tumblr.com/ |
| 23:34 | <&ToxicFrog> | The current best entry I'm aware of generates about 250MB of errors per byte of source; he thinks it can go much higher, but the compiler crashes first. |
| 23:34 | <&Derakon> | Heh. |
| 23:35 | <&Derakon> | "Entries have ranged from variadic template abuse and preprocessor trickery to plain old cheating which is just the way we like it." |
| 23:36 | <&Derakon> | I'm guessing one of the cheaters simply pretends to print compiler errors by generating output with the preprocessor or something. |
| 23:40 | < AbuDhabi_> | Wow. |
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| 23:52 | | * macdjord ponders how one would design a language where the goal is to make the compiler/interpreter as simple and easy as possible /without/ BF's exponential increase in size and complexity of the code. |
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| --- Log closed Tue Jan 07 00:00:12 2014 |