| --- Log opened Mon Nov 18 00:00:57 2013 |
| 00:26 | | himi [fow035@Nightstar-q9amk4.ffp.csiro.au] has joined #code |
| 00:26 | | mode/#code [+o himi] by ChanServ |
| 00:32 | | Typherix [Typherix@Nightstar-n91qrf.lnngmi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 121 seconds] |
| 00:39 | | Turaiel is now known as Turaiel[Offline] |
| 00:49 | | Vornicus [vorn@Nightstar-sn7kve.sd.cox.net] has joined #code |
| 00:49 | | mode/#code [+qo Vornicus Vornicus] by ChanServ |
| 01:20 | | Vornicus [vorn@Nightstar-sn7kve.sd.cox.net] has quit [[NS] Quit: Leaving] |
| 01:49 | | Xon [Xon@Nightstar-bd4.haq.23.203.IP] has quit [Connection closed] |
| 02:37 | | Xon [Xon@Nightstar-q4s.ku7.252.119.IP] has joined #code |
| 02:39 | | Xon [Xon@Nightstar-q4s.ku7.252.119.IP] has quit [[NS] Quit: ] |
| 02:41 | | Xon [Xon@Nightstar-q4s.ku7.252.119.IP] has joined #code |
| 03:06 | | VirusJTG_ [VirusJTG@Nightstar-6i5vf7.sta.comporium.net] has quit [[NS] Quit: Program Shutting down] |
| 03:43 | | Xon2 [Xon@Nightstar-q4s.ku7.252.119.IP] has joined #code |
| 03:45 | | Xon [Xon@Nightstar-q4s.ku7.252.119.IP] has quit [Ping timeout: 121 seconds] |
| 03:49 | | Turaiel[Offline] is now known as Turaiel |
| 03:50 | | Xon2 is now known as Xon |
| 03:58 | | Kindamoody[zZz] is now known as Kindamoody |
| 05:03 | | Derakon is now known as Derakon[AFK] |
| 05:10 | | Vornicus [vorn@Nightstar-sn7kve.sd.cox.net] has joined #code |
| 05:10 | | mode/#code [+qo Vornicus Vornicus] by ChanServ |
| 05:10 | | * McMartin blinks |
| 05:10 | <&McMartin> | Right |
| 05:11 | <&McMartin> | So, I'm wondering how best to set up a program to make graphics screens on the C64 once I've built my tileset, etc |
| 05:11 | <&McMartin> | I think the right answer is actually "by hitting CLR/HOME and just typing it in" |
| 05:11 | <&McMartin> | Then I can save out screen and color RAM via the machine code monitor~ |
| 05:14 | <~Vornicus> | I think I actually wrote that code once |
| 05:15 | <~Vornicus> | in BASIC. |
| 05:16 | <&McMartin> | Well, ultimately I need a file on my host system that I can .incbin into the project as a whole. |
| 05:16 | <~Vornicus> | though it didn't, iirc, handle multicolor, because I didn't understand it. |
| 05:16 | <&McMartin> | I'm avoiding multicolor here |
| 05:17 | <&McMartin> | It turns out I think I can get a recognizable picture I want here just with the "stock" graphics characters |
| 05:17 | <&McMartin> | And while that could be improved, this will improve the charm of the piece |
| 05:17 | <&McMartin> | (It's a To The Moon fanwork) |
| 05:21 | | RichyB [RichyB@Nightstar-c6u.vd5.170.83.IP] has quit [[NS] Quit: Gone.] |
| 05:24 | | RichyB [RichyB@Nightstar-c6u.vd5.170.83.IP] has joined #code |
| 05:45 | | himi [fow035@Nightstar-q9amk4.ffp.csiro.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 121 seconds] |
| 06:07 | | celticminstrel [celticminst@Nightstar-al12cf.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [[NS] Quit: And lo! The computer falls into a deep sleep, to awake again some other day!] |
| 06:42 | | ErikMesoy|sleep is now known as ErikMesoy |
| 07:06 | | Stalker [Z@Nightstar-484uip.cust.comxnet.dk] has joined #code |
| 07:31 | | himi [fow035@Nightstar-v37cpe.internode.on.net] has joined #code |
| 07:31 | | mode/#code [+o himi] by ChanServ |
| 08:15 | | Turaiel is now known as Turaiel[Offline] |
| 08:20 | | AverageJoe [evil1@Nightstar-dfmuir.ph.cox.net] has joined #code |
| 09:33 | | Kindamoody is now known as Kindamoody|out |
| 10:00 | | AverageJoe [evil1@Nightstar-dfmuir.ph.cox.net] has quit [[NS] Quit: Leaving] |
| 14:12 | < AnnoDomini> | http://macromeme.com/dog/gf-system-update.html |
| 14:45 | | celticminstrel [celticminst@Nightstar-al12cf.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #code |
| 14:45 | | mode/#code [+o celticminstrel] by ChanServ |
| 14:54 | | Stalker [Z@Nightstar-484uip.cust.comxnet.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 121 seconds] |
| 15:10 | | Turaiel[Offline] is now known as Turaiel |
| 15:24 | | * TheWatcher eyes chrome |
| 15:25 | <@TheWatcher> | $('li#recip-1') is not null. I'm looking at the damn thing. Argh |
| 15:26 | | * TheWatcher rejiggers code to leave out the li# as that works |
| 15:28 | < Syka_> | um |
| 15:29 | < Syka_> | isnt li#recip-1 the css identifier? |
| 15:31 | <@TheWatcher> | Yeah |
| 15:32 | <@TheWatcher> | Mootools /should/ be letting me use a css selector there, but heyho |
| 15:54 | < RichyB> | Mootools? |
| 15:54 | <@TheWatcher> | javascript library |
| 15:54 | <@TheWatcher> | kinda like jquery |
| 15:55 | < RichyB> | ewww it's one of those ones that dicks with existing objects' prototypes. |
| 15:56 | | Turaiel is now known as Turaiel[Offline] |
| 16:00 | | celticminstrel [celticminst@Nightstar-al12cf.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [[NS] Quit: And lo! The computer falls into a deep sleep, to awake again some other day!] |
| 16:10 | | Stalker [Z@Nightstar-ro94ms.balk.dk] has joined #code |
| 16:17 | <@froztbyte> | mootools has kinda fallen off the wagon of popularity lately, afaict |
| 16:17 | <@froztbyte> | where "lately" is "about 2 years or more" |
| 16:29 | | * TheWatcher shrugs, couldn't really give a shit |
| 16:29 | <@TheWatcher> | Does what I need |
| 16:32 | | * TheWatcher uses jquery in some other things, dislikes its approach |
| 16:32 | <@froztbyte> | eh, I wasn't saying anything about mootools' quality myself |
| 16:32 | <@froztbyte> | more remarking on why people know/don't know it |
| 16:33 | <@froztbyte> | reason I know it is because a friend's been using it for about 4~5 years now |
| 18:33 | | Vornicus [vorn@Nightstar-sn7kve.sd.cox.net] has quit [[NS] Quit: Leaving] |
| 19:05 | | Kindamoody|out is now known as Kindamoody |
| 20:07 | | Kindamoody is now known as Kindamoody[zZz] |
| 20:53 | | JustBob [justbob@Nightstar-5smtnf.or.comcast.net] has quit [Connection reset by peer] |
| 20:53 | | JustBob [justbob@Nightstar-5smtnf.or.comcast.net] has joined #code |
| 21:04 | | Azash [ap@Nightstar-25v57p.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 121 seconds] |
| 21:05 | | Azash [ap@Nightstar-25v57p.net] has joined #code |
| 21:05 | | mode/#code [+o Azash] by ChanServ |
| 21:06 | | * Azash sincerely regrets ever choosing Hetzner |
| 21:07 | <@froztbyte> | vps? |
| 21:07 | <@gnolam> | Hetzner? |
| 21:08 | < ErikMesoy> | Choosing? |
| 21:08 | <@froztbyte> | (my guess is vps because my host is there too, and it's perfectly happy) |
| 21:08 | <@froztbyte> | (their VPSs are pants ) |
| 21:09 | <@Azash> | froztbyte: Yes |
| 21:09 | <@Azash> | And yes, they are |
| 21:09 | <&jerith> | Is their non-ZA network as broken as their ZA one? |
| 21:10 | <@Azash> | ErikMesoy, gnolam, Hetzner is a German provider of hosting |
| 21:10 | <&jerith> | Or are we just special like that? |
| 21:10 | <@gnolam> | Ah. |
| 21:10 | <@Azash> | Both dedicated and VPS, and stuff like website storage |
| 21:10 | <@gnolam> | Hetners gonna hetzn? |
| 21:10 | <@Azash> | My VPS constantly has very irritating latency, occasionally starts pinging out from networks, and now and then I just get surprise cycles |
| 21:10 | <@Azash> | I guess |
| 21:11 | <@froztbyte> | jerith: their metal-hosting in germany is better than here, and also has a real network behind it |
| 21:11 | <@froztbyte> | jerith: their VPS farm doesn't appear to have enough love applied to it, so it throws a tantrum every now and then |
| 21:12 | <@froztbyte> | Azash: is it an openvz thing, btw? or kvm/xen? |
| 21:12 | <@froztbyte> | (I know little of their vps hosting beyond "I don't want one") |
| 21:12 | <@Azash> | I'm not sure, I can check if you'd like |
| 21:12 | <@Azash> | Just a mo' |
| 21:13 | <@froztbyte> | jerith: the one in .za is just a good example of bad idea |
| 21:13 | <@froztbyte> | ideas* |
| 21:14 | < RichyB> | Azash, in Europe, I've heard good things about OVH from friends, though they were all renting microservers rather than virtual machines so who knows. |
| 21:15 | < RichyB> | in the UK I've been using rackspace for VMs because they work pretty okay and pretty reliably |
| 21:15 | <@froztbyte> | anyone who says good things about OVH doesn't care particularly much |
| 21:15 | <@froztbyte> | OVH is as ghetto as it gets |
| 21:15 | <@froztbyte> | literally |
| 21:15 | < RichyB> | froztbyte, come to think of it, it *was* the cheapness of the bandwidth that they were praising, rather than its consistency ;) |
| 21:15 | <@Azash> | froztbyte: KVM, apparently |
| 21:16 | <@froztbyte> | http://zdnetblog.manek.fastmail.co.uk/ovh_datacentre_7.jpg <- this is how ovh does density |
| 21:16 | < RichyB> | Yeah, okay, disregard that. Those people were all using them as torrent seeding boxes anyway, so they wanted cheap more than they cared about reliable. |
| 21:16 | <@froztbyte> | https://i1.ytimg.com/vi/Y47RM9zylFY/maxresdefault.jpg |
| 21:16 | <@froztbyte> | seriously |
| 21:16 | <@froztbyte> | as ghetto as it gets |
| 21:16 | <@froztbyte> | Azash: heh, interesting |
| 21:17 | < RichyB> | as ghetto as it gets would be Google's version-0 datacentres made up of PC motherboards stacked in polystyrene holders |
| 21:17 | <@froztbyte> | Azash: it takes a specific set of bad decisions to fuck larger KVM farms up as often as they do |
| 21:17 | <@froztbyte> | RichyB: not really |
| 21:17 | <@froztbyte> | RichyB: that's a fairly good idea |
| 21:17 | <@froztbyte> | like, if I was to start poking at the idea of getting rid of server cases, smallifying systems, etc |
| 21:17 | <@froztbyte> | that's not a bad option from which to start |
| 21:18 | <@froztbyte> | the foam gives you some shock absorbtion (so packing them is easy), isolation, reasonably predictable heating, and a fixed form profile |
| 21:18 | | * Tamber attaches motherboards to plastic lunch-trays, inserts in cafeteria tray-rack. Tada! |
| 21:18 | | * Tamber shot. |
| 21:19 | < RichyB> | if I had infinite money for servers, I would probably do "stack of PC motherboards on their sides, placed adjacent to one another with wooden (nonconductive, non-soluble) separators in a cow-feeding trough full of light oil |
| 21:19 | <@froztbyte> | Tamber: statiiiiic |
| 21:19 | <@Tamber> | No more so than polystyrene foam, surely? |
| 21:19 | <@froztbyte> | RichyB: are you familiar with the term "linecard"? |
| 21:19 | < RichyB> | running servers inside secondhand agricultural furniture would be boss as Hell :D |
| 21:20 | <@froztbyte> | Tamber: you get polystyrene with lower static potential, iirc |
| 21:20 | < RichyB> | froztbyte, no, but you're talking about a micro-server that looks about the size of a big PCI card, with a shitload of them all plugged into one large backplane? |
| 21:20 | | celticminstrel [celticminst@Nightstar-al12cf.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #code |
| 21:20 | | mode/#code [+o celticminstrel] by ChanServ |
| 21:21 | <@froztbyte> | RichyB: ...somewhat |
| 21:21 | <@froztbyte> | RichyB: routers have tons of the things you mention, as does the telco world in general, and also professional audio |
| 21:22 | <@froztbyte> | typically a card of given width (in a standard or accepted standard, within the industry), given backplane interconnect, and tada |
| 21:22 | <@froztbyte> | you also have "blades" available in x86/itanium/couple others |
| 21:22 | < RichyB> | I know that telecoms runs the "lots of little things plugged into a backplane" because⦠they want to be able to buy one big 4U case and pay money to expand its capacity one unit at a time? |
| 21:22 | <@froztbyte> | which are physically-scaled-the-fuck-down full computer systems |
| 21:23 | <@froztbyte> | RichyB: yes, in some senses |
| 21:23 | <@froztbyte> | capacity growth both in total node count, or handling capacity of node |
| 21:23 | < RichyB> | Uhuh, but since I started from "let's put a bunch of PC motherboards in a feeding-trough full of oil", I think it'd be more in-keeping with the ghetto spirit to just make some kind of lego rack for them and plug each one into a switch hanging off the side with a pair of 1Gbit ethernet plugs ;) |
| 21:23 | <@froztbyte> | also "oh, we don't care about ISDN anymore, let's switch all these out to an DSLAM linecard" |
| 21:24 | <@froztbyte> | s/an D/a D/ |
| 21:24 | < RichyB> | For that to work, does that mean that they bought the backplane to run ISDN initially, but with way more aggregate bandwidth than ISDN could possibly have needed? |
| 21:24 | <@froztbyte> | no, the backplane is just a data channel |
| 21:24 | <@froztbyte> | interconnect bus |
| 21:25 | < RichyB> | Yeah, aggregate bandwidth in the interconnect between the cards |
| 21:25 | <@froztbyte> | you do get /some/ messaging smarts there, but it's a pretty "all things on this gen backplane can speak to each other" approach |
| 21:25 | <@froztbyte> | the HP blade chassis had this in an interesting style, for instance |
| 21:26 | < RichyB> | ? |
| 21:26 | <@froztbyte> | the earlier gens just had a 10G backplane, with some permutational limits on what bays can go how fast during comms, etc |
| 21:26 | <@froztbyte> | and 4Gbps (2x2Gbps) channel space between the two "halves" of the backplane |
| 21:27 | <@froztbyte> | the later gens got that up to 40Gbps, between way more stuff |
| 21:27 | <@froztbyte> | including the passthrough cards |
| 21:27 | < RichyB> | I don't understand how this stuff can be cost-effective given that there's no standardisation for the interconnects; every single server vendor sells their own and only their own blades, so commoditisation doesn't get there to push their prices down? |
| 21:28 | <@froztbyte> | well, you have vendors competing with each other, of course |
| 21:28 | <@froztbyte> | and you have "featurepitch" kind of approaches to it |
| 21:28 | <@froztbyte> | so you'll get, for instance, dell+vmware+emc pitching you one stack of ideas |
| 21:29 | < RichyB> | I guess it works if you're a big enough customer that you can plausibly buy whole full bladeservers at a time. |
| 21:29 | <@froztbyte> | and hp doing a whole bunch of other stuff |
| 21:29 | <@froztbyte> | personally I fucking hate dell because every experience I've ever had with it was an awful shitfest |
| 21:29 | <@froztbyte> | so I'd almost always recommend hp |
| 21:30 | <@froztbyte> | in fact, I recently got a feedback call from dell, asking for evaluation of their support services |
| 21:30 | <@froztbyte> | when asked the question of "What would I recommend they do differently?", I responded with "Please close up shop and stop inflicting your horrible fucking disaster of a product on the world" |
| 21:30 | <@froztbyte> | I had to repeat it twice to make sure they got the wording right |
| 21:31 | < RichyB> | Nice. Stories? :D |
| 21:31 | <@froztbyte> | most recently, a server with "premium" support (aka 4hr SLA) took me 7 hours *just to get a ticket opened* |
| 21:32 | <@froztbyte> | this because the irish individual I was speaking to had to "escalate" to his "line manager" about the fact that "the drives didn't appear to show" |
| 21:32 | <&jerith> | Did they pay up on the SLA penalties? |
| 21:32 | < RichyB> | wtf |
| 21:32 | <@froztbyte> | context: old drives, about to fail. we'd been warning people about this for weeks, got other things ready *just* in time. I try to open ticket. I get argued with. |
| 21:32 | < RichyB> | Wow, I'm glad I've never had to call that shit in. |
| 21:33 | <@froztbyte> | they also have other various kinds of fun things |
| 21:33 | <&jerith> | (If there are no penalties it's not a real SLA.) |
| 21:33 | <@froztbyte> | they have this useful notion of a DSET, Dell Support Esomething Tool |
| 21:33 | <@froztbyte> | basically, sharchive file that'll run * tests they need, collect all info, and give you a file to ftp up to their support thing |
| 21:33 | <@Tamber> | Oh, the "If you haven't run the stupid tool, we won't help you. I don't care if the machine doesn't boot, run the tool" one? |
| 21:34 | <@Tamber> | :D |
| 21:34 | <@froztbyte> | except it only works on very specific systems |
| 21:34 | <@froztbyte> | Tamber: eeeexactly that too |
| 21:34 | <@froztbyte> | 4-drive raid5 system in a 3+1 config; 2 drives fail |
| 21:34 | <@froztbyte> | system is now unbootable |
| 21:34 | <@froztbyte> | log ticket |
| 21:34 | <@froztbyte> | them: "sorry, we don't have the dset" |
| 21:35 | <@froztbyte> | me: "look....I've spent the 5 hours getting into the raid config over this 700ms link. here are the screenshots showing the issue." |
| 21:35 | <@froztbyte> | them: "...wut" |
| 21:35 | < RichyB> | 700ms ssh? Fuck your life. |
| 21:35 | <@froztbyte> | 5 days of various kinds of escalation |
| 21:35 | <@froztbyte> | finally get a tech out there |
| 21:35 | <@froztbyte> | tech apparently proceeds with "reinstalling the OS" |
| 21:36 | <@froztbyte> | I log back in, things are still the exact same |
| 21:36 | <@froztbyte> | (which, of course, they would be. how the fuck would you install OS?) |
| 21:36 | | Stalker [Z@Nightstar-ro94ms.balk.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 121 seconds] |
| 21:36 | <@froztbyte> | so I flail around a bit more |
| 21:36 | <@Tamber> | Ruined Array of Inexpensive Devices? |
| 21:36 | <@froztbyte> | no, turns out the tech just got to the security door, didn't phone ahead (as told to) to actually tell the person they were supposed to meet that they were coming |
| 21:37 | <@froztbyte> | and then left |
| 21:37 | <@Tamber> | *facepalm* |
| 21:37 | <@froztbyte> | so some more time later |
| 21:37 | <@froztbyte> | we get 3 of the 2 broken harddrives replaced |
| 21:37 | <&jerith> | froztbyte: The dude on the rack next door was probably very confused as to why his machine suddenly had a fresh OS on it... |
| 21:37 | <@froztbyte> | now there's no hope of me recovering the system, at all (I could've maybe done some magic) |
| 21:37 | <@froztbyte> | jerith: yeah, that was my worry, but fortunately no-one signed in |
| 21:38 | <@froztbyte> | and yeah |
| 21:38 | <@froztbyte> | 2 weeks of effort |
| 21:38 | <@froztbyte> | to replace some drives |
| 21:38 | <@froztbyte> | oh, the best part |
| 21:38 | <@froztbyte> | after that initial "escalation"? I was told "yeah, this is a firmware issue. just apply this to those drives" |
| 21:38 | <@Tamber> | jerith, "Uh... okay, the server's down. Seems to be off. *mash button* ...huh." "Uhoh, what's up?" "Well, I have the Windows boot screen." "Well, that's good!" "...the server should be running RedHat." "...Oh." |
| 21:38 | <@froztbyte> | so I get our tech to try boot an ubuntu livedisc |
| 21:38 | <@froztbyte> | which, naturally, didn't support running the firmware flash shit |
| 21:39 | <@froztbyte> | RichyB: uh, no; I've done 3500ms ssh; that's not so bad |
| 21:39 | <@froztbyte> | RichyB: this was 700+ms *IPMI* |
| 21:39 | < RichyB> | yeouw |
| 21:39 | < RichyB> | What kind of packet loss? |
| 21:39 | <@froztbyte> | RichyB: keep in mind that linux's default key-repeat is 200ms |
| 21:39 | <@froztbyte> | try to enter complicated passwords and things with that. |
| 21:40 | <@froztbyte> | even typing 'host.domain.tld' is up to 5 minutes of effort |
| 21:40 | <@froztbyte> | RichyB: none |
| 21:40 | < RichyB> | The worst I've had was ~40% packet loss on SSH with about 80ms latency, trying to deploy something at the last minute from abroad on shaky wifi while the fucktard account manager keeps asking for password resets over and over again. |
| 21:41 | <@froztbyte> | hehe |
| 21:41 | < RichyB> | I seriously wanted to defenestrate them; it's lucky for their health and my criminal record that we were in separate countries. |
| 21:41 | <@froztbyte> | I always have these options at the very least: iodine for DNS vpn, 3 nodes; openvpn on udp, two nodes; corkscrew, two nodes |
| 21:41 | <@froztbyte> | I want to do a couple more |
| 21:42 | < RichyB> | Actually, to be fair, probably wouldn't come to that, I'm pretty sure that that AM could beat me up anyway. |
| 21:42 | <@froztbyte> | especially a little daemon that'll act as a routable proxy but encode all its traffic in base64 blocks or something over http |
| 21:42 | <@froztbyte> | but yeah, seriously, I hate dell |
| 21:42 | <@froztbyte> | so very much |
| 21:43 | <@froztbyte> | you *only* get to log a ticket over the phone |
| 21:43 | <@Tamber> | And the phone's only up 9-5 Mon-Fri? |
| 21:43 | <@froztbyte> | they have a thing for web submission, but because dell drank the enterprise juice, if you're not signed on the org under which that server's service tag is registered, glhf |
| 21:44 | <@froztbyte> | so you get to play with shitty IVRs, people misunderstanding the issue, hours of delays, not getting a service number until way later, broken telephone communication, ... |
| 21:44 | <@Tamber> | Don't hold back; tell us how you *really* feel. |
| 21:44 | <@Tamber> | :) |
| 21:45 | <@froztbyte> | my HP DL380 that blew up in kenya, without support? I phoned up my supplier, bought a carepack that I got codes for immediately. went to HP's support site, threw in the server number and registered the carepack against it |
| 21:45 | <@froztbyte> | opened the fault |
| 21:45 | <@froztbyte> | and 3 hours later I had a dude onsite in the middle of fucking africa |
| 21:45 | <@Tamber> | Impressive. |
| 21:46 | <&jerith> | froztbyte: Kind of the middle-right, actually. |
| 21:46 | <@froztbyte> | jerith: rather, yes |
| 21:46 | <@froztbyte> | Tamber: I've had a day wait with HP before; their support guy got backlogged at a border post |
| 21:46 | <&jerith> | My African geography has improved dramatically since I started working at this company. :-) |
| 21:46 | < Syka_> | heh |
| 21:47 | <@froztbyte> | Tamber: the manager said "this won't do", recalled him (since he had the only unit of the part they had in stock) |
| 21:47 | < Syka_> | we had a disk blow up in a hp storage server |
| 21:47 | <@froztbyte> | Tamber: and they flew him in |
| 21:47 | < Syka_> | we had a new one the next week |
| 21:47 | < Syka_> | which is pretty nice |
| 21:47 | < Syka_> | fortunately, we had nothing else blow up of hp servers |
| 21:47 | <@froztbyte> | I can get *4 hour same business day* support on my *goddamned home microserver* |
| 21:47 | <@froztbyte> | and it's *affordable* |
| 21:47 | < Syka_> | some hp desktops, which we had a guy come and replace the motherboards |
| 21:48 | <@froztbyte> | I can't even get that kind of support on supposedly enterprise level dell gear |
| 21:48 | <&ToxicFrog> | Hmm. |
| 21:48 | <@froztbyte> | so yeah, fuck dell |
| 21:48 | <&ToxicFrog> | I need a breaking non-space. |
| 21:48 | <@froztbyte> | extensively |
| 21:48 | <&ToxicFrog> | That is to say, I need something that tells the HTML layout engine "don't put a space here, but you can break the line here if you need to" |
| 21:48 | <@froztbyte> | hmmm |
| 21:49 | <@froztbyte> | I believe I've seen that before, but can't remember what it's called |
| 21:49 | | * jerith hands ToxicFrog a degenerate matter crowbar. |
| 21:49 | <&jerith> | It breaks things and it's about as non-space as it's possible to get. :-) |
| 21:50 | <@froztbyte> | haha |
| 21:50 | < Syka_> | ToxicFrog: css thing, isnt it |
| 21:50 | < Syka_> | overflow: something |
| 21:50 | <&ToxicFrog> | Syka_: no idea, I don't know if this even exists |
| 21:50 | < Syka_> | since a 'you can break here' is not a html thing |
| 21:51 | < Syka_> | since thats not structure |
| 21:51 | <&ToxicFrog> | That said, I wouldn't expect it to be a CSS thing, since what I want is a marker for a specific point between two characters in a word |
| 21:51 | <&ToxicFrog> | Well, all whitespace is implicitly "you can break here" in HTML |
| 21:51 | <&ToxicFrog> | And there's for "this is whitespace, but you can't break here" |
| 21:51 | < Syka_> | 'theoretically' anyway |
| 21:51 | < Syka_> | there is a lot of mix |
| 21:51 | <&ToxicFrog> | I want the converse - "you can break here, but this isn't whitespace" |
| 21:51 | <@froztbyte> | anyway, I generally seem to fall into one of two opinion groups when people say they like dell. option 1 is "you've never had any better, so you don't know any better". if option 1 doesn't apply, option 2 is "okay you're either retarded or you've just given up fighting corporate about this" |
| 21:52 | < Syka_> | here |
| 21:52 | < Syka_> | ToxicFrog: https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/CSS/word-wrap?redirectlocale=en-US& redirectslug=CSS%2Fword-wrap |
| 21:52 | < Syka_> | "The word-wrap CSS property is used to specify whether or not the browser may break lines within words in order to prevent overflow when an otherwise unbreakable string is too long to fit in its containing box." |
| 21:52 | <&ToxicFrog> | Yeah, that's not what I want, because I don't want arbitrary word-breaking. |
| 21:52 | <&ToxicFrog> | I have a very long (60+ character) string that can be broken only in certain specific locations without loss of readability. |
| 21:53 | < Syka_> | ToxicFrog: 0-width spans |
| 21:53 | <&ToxicFrog> | As in <span style="width: 0"/>? |
| 21:53 | < Syka_> | yes |
| 21:53 | < Syka_> | they won't show up if you copy paste |
| 21:53 | < Syka_> | or rather, won't make a break |
| 21:54 | < Syka_> | if you dont put whitespace around them, anyway |
| 21:54 | < Syka_> | eg. supercalifr<span class="break"></span>agilisticsuper<span class="break"></span>alidocious |
| 21:55 | < Syka_> | where break is {width: 0; margin: 0; padding: 0} (just in case something is a bit iffy with all spans |
| 21:55 | <&ToxicFrog> | Aah. |
| 21:55 | <&ToxicFrog> | That's disgusting, but I'll try it. |
| 21:55 | < Syka_> | ToxicFrog: welcome to html! :D |
| 21:57 | < RichyB> | ToxicFrog, I think that there's a zero-width breaking space in unicode. |
| 21:58 | < RichyB> | U+200B, ZERO WIDTH SPACE. |
| 21:59 | <&jerith> | ToxicFrog: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zero_Width_Space |
| 21:59 | <&jerith> | Oh, RichyB beat me to it. |
| 21:59 | < RichyB> | Eh, by less than 600ms. ;) |
| 22:00 | < Syka_> | great |
| 22:00 | < Syka_> | now instead of ugly spans |
| 22:00 | < Syka_> | you get ugly broken unicode characters |
| 22:00 | < Syka_> | :D |
| 22:00 | < RichyB> | HTML also has <wbr> https://developer.mozilla.org/en/docs/Web/HTML/Element/wbr |
| 22:00 | < RichyB> | which is slightly neat because you can use it in the middle of URLs fairly safely |
| 22:00 | < Syka_> | huh |
| 22:00 | < Syka_> | thats a thing now? neat |
| 22:01 | <@Alek> | http://macromeme.com/dog/jeopardy-computer.html |
| 22:01 | < RichyB> | According to MDN, it's one of those things that MSIE added ages ago and made its way into the standard because it wasn't egregiously stupid. |
| 22:01 | < Syka_> | ToxicFrog: use <wbr> instead |
| 22:04 | <&ToxicFrog> | Hell yes |
| 22:08 | <@Alek> | wat http://macromeme.com/dog/burning-cds-irl.html |
| 22:10 | < RichyB> | omg cat rides Roomba-chariot into battle http://macromeme.com/dog/robot-cat-prime.html |
| 22:13 | | ErikMesoy is now known as ErikMesoy|sleep |
| 22:15 | | Turaiel[Offline] is now known as Turaiel |
| 23:38 | < RichyB> | âI $NAME, promise that once I see how simple AES is, I will not implement it in production code even though it would be really fun.â âThis agreement shall be in effect until the undersigned creates a meaningful interpretive dance that compares and contrasts cache-based, timing and other side-channel attacks and their countermeasures.â â$SIGNED, $DATE.â |
| 23:38 | < RichyB> | http://www.hyperelliptic.org/SPEED/slides09/kasper-aes_speedcc09_slides.pdf |
| 23:38 | < RichyB> | â page 12, the "Foot-Shooting Prevention Agreement" |
| --- Log closed Tue Nov 19 00:00:13 2013 |