| --- Log opened Tue Oct 22 00:00:17 2013 |
| 00:01 | | thalass [thalass@Nightstar-141785b5.bigpond.net.au] has joined #code |
| 00:01 | <@Reiv> | That's still a good start~ |
| 00:01 | <@Tarinaky> | You can help you know :p |
| 00:03 | <@Reiv> | I would want to learn how to program again first. |
| 00:03 | <@Reiv> | And learn OpenGL. I should probably do that anyway. Sigh. |
| 00:19 | | You're now known as TheWatcher[T-2] |
| 00:23 | | * Tarinaky glowers at KSP for doing a silly. |
| 00:25 | | You're now known as TheWatcher[zZzZ] |
| 00:30 | | Turaiel[Offline] [Brandon@Nightstar-949d7402.resnet.mtu.edu] has joined #code |
| 00:39 | <&ToxicFrog> | Reiv: you can get surprisingly far with openGL-backed APIs without actually knowing openGL at this point. |
| 00:39 | <&ToxicFrog> | Although this may not be the case if you want to go 3d~ |
| 00:40 | <@Tarinaky> | And compatability mode is piss easy anyway. |
| 00:40 | <@Tarinaky> | ToxicFrog: Don't suppose I can trouble you a pair of eyes over my code to see what I'm doing wrong with my err... whatever tha angle is called. |
| 00:41 | <@Tarinaky> | Even if I want to land this minmus probe first >.< |
| 00:41 | <&ToxicFrog> | Tarinaky: go ahead, but I can't guarantee I'll be any help. |
| 00:41 | <@Tarinaky> | https://github.com/Tarinaky/DuelFieldStars/blob/qt/solar.py |
| 00:41 | <@Azash> | What're you working on, Tarinaky? |
| 00:41 | <@Tarinaky> | Hang on, maneuver node coming up. |
| 00:49 | < thalass> | I can't see any errors, but my code-fu is lower than yours. :P It's interesting. You're modelling orbits? |
| 00:50 | <&ToxicFrog> | thalass: he's trying to derive the ellipse (easy) and position as a function of time (hard) for orbital bodies, starting with the solar system. |
| 00:51 | | * thalass nods |
| 00:55 | | * thalass is going to be trying to map the shape of a room with an ultrasonic sensor, soon, but first: moving. :P |
| 00:55 | < thalass> | also: build up codefu |
| 00:57 | | thalass is now known as Thalass|walkingbus |
| 00:57 | <@Azash> | Thalformers! More than meets the eye |
| 00:58 | < Thalass|walkingbus> | hee |
| 00:59 | | Kindamoody[zZz] is now known as Kindamoody |
| 00:59 | <@Azash> | And Kindamorning to you |
| 00:59 | <@Kindamoody> | :P |
| 01:00 | <@Kindamoody> | It's 2am, not really morning yet. I just can't sleep. >_< |
| 01:00 | <@Azash> | So it's.. Kindamorning? |
| 01:01 | <@Kindamoody> | It's Kindabellyache. >_< |
| 01:01 | <@Azash> | Ow :< |
| 01:02 | <@Kindamoody> | My own fault for eating salad with raw onions just before bedtime. But it was so good! o.o |
| 01:03 | <@Azash> | I feel obliged to link http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_bpS-cOBK6Q&feature=related |
| 01:05 | <@Kindamoody> | These were red onions, and it was just a spoonful... :P |
| 01:06 | <@Kindamoody> | Weird song, by the way. :P |
| 01:09 | <@Azash> | I'm surprised you've never heard it before, actually |
| 01:11 | <@Kindamoody> | I'm pretty sure I've heard it, I just haven't really listened to it. |
| 01:12 | | Derakon[AFK] is now known as Derakon |
| 01:20 | | * Tarinaky begins to do SCIENCE! on Minmus. |
| 01:29 | <@Tarinaky> | And my rover just commited sepuku on a nice bit of flat ground by throwing itself into the air. |
| 01:29 | <@Tarinaky> | -.- |
| 01:29 | <@Tarinaky> | At least I got some good Science before I tried driving it. |
| 01:33 | <@Tarinaky> | In hindsight I'd have probably had more fun with a Gerry Anderson-style jumping craft. |
| 01:54 | <@Reiv> | In passing: Don't forget you can go to circles orbiting on circles if you so desire. It worked for the ancients! :p |
| 02:01 | <@Tarinaky> | I thought that was specifically to deal with retrograde motion? |
| 02:01 | <@Tarinaky> | Also: Anno already made that joke about epicycles. |
| 02:02 | <@Reiv> | Tarinaky: IIRC, a circle on a circle with the right math in them is mathematically equivalent to an ellipse. |
| 02:02 | <@Reiv> | With the wrong math it's a spirograph, which would at least make for an amusing-looking failure state. :p |
| 02:03 | <@Tarinaky> | I'm pretty sure I just have the wrong math right now. |
| 02:03 | <@Tarinaky> | On that note. I should sleep. |
| 02:03 | <@Tarinaky> | I actually have crap to do in the morning. |
| 02:13 | | Kindamoody is now known as Kindamoody[zZz] |
| 02:21 | | Thalass|walkingbus is now known as Thalass |
| 02:26 | < Thalass> | With that orbit thing, in its current state does it draw elipses? I'm getting a rough 10 point star, effectively, as the points are separated by about 20% of the circumference. Possibly this is caused by my crusty old netbook. |
| 02:31 | <@Tarinaky> | Thalass: Nope. |
| 02:31 | <@Tarinaky> | Thalass: The points are on an elipse, but they seem to be randomly distributed about it. |
| 02:32 | <@Tarinaky> | Also, meant to be sleeping. |
| 02:36 | <@Azash> | So yeah Tarinaky what are you doing |
| 02:37 | < Thalass> | Ah ok. G'night Tarinaky |
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| 09:07 | | * thalass configures his pi for i2c, now works on picaxe i2c slave thingy |
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| 10:39 | <@Tarinaky> | Argh, overslept. |
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| 13:37 | <@Tarinaky> | Okay. I... still have no idea what's wrong :/ |
| 13:45 | <@Tarinaky> | Okay, one thing I don't understand.. why is Mean Anomaly nt? |
| 14:00 | <@Tarinaky> | Setting the mean motion = 1/period gives me a segment of the circle/ellipse. |
| 14:01 | <@Tarinaky> | Which, again, I don't understand. |
| 14:01 | <@Tarinaky> | Ah! |
| 14:01 | <@Tarinaky> | 2pi t/period works for mean anomaly. |
| 14:02 | <@Tarinaky> | Added bonus: the true anomaly calculation is giving me counter-clockwise rotation 'for free'. No need to do any transformation :D |
| 14:13 | <@Tarinaky> | Hurray for unit errors and badly described web pages :/ |
| --- Log closed Tue Oct 22 14:13:56 2013 |
| --- Log opened Tue Oct 22 14:14:03 2013 |
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| 14:14 | | Irssi: #code: Total of 41 nicks [16 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 25 normal] |
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| 18:25 | < ErikMesoy> | When did OpenOffice start automatically inserting "smart" quotes? |
| 18:27 | <@Tamber> | When the option got ticked. |
| 18:28 | < ErikMesoy> | I'm using OpenOffice Impress for the first time ever because it's the default program set for opening a funny filetype here. I'm pretty sure I didn't tick it. Maybe it's set in the file? |
| 18:28 | <@Tamber> | Aha, "first time ever"; it's likely to be a "because this is what MS Office users expect" default. |
| 18:30 | < ErikMesoy> | http://forum.openoffice.org/en/forum/download/file.php?id=7247&sid=986e7796afa7a d9e8ff0d1e24212552c&mode=view <-- Internet suggests I turn it off here. OO Impress *lacks this tab*. What the hell. |
| 18:31 | <@Tamber> | Sure it's for the same version? :/ |
| 18:31 | < ErikMesoy> | Maybe not. But here is what i have: http://i.imgur.com/rsZ62zP.png I would expect it to be under Replace if moved, replacing dumb quotes with smart quotes. Can't find it. |
| 18:34 | <@Tamber> | Hmmm |
| 18:39 | <@gnolam> | ->Options |
| 18:40 | <@gnolam> | No wait, ->Localized Options |
| 18:40 | <@gnolam> | Also, OpenOffice? How old a version are you running? |
| 18:41 | < ErikMesoy> | Thanks. 3.4.1, it came with this computer. |
| 18:43 | <@gnolam> | In LibreOffice 4, SVG import actually /seems to work/. |
| 18:46 | <@gnolam> | (Previous OpenOffices, claimed to be able to embed SVGs but really couldn't) |
| 18:47 | <@gnolam> | -, |
| 18:47 | <@gnolam> | Can't type. Need food and caffeine. |
| 18:47 | | Turaiel is now known as Turaiel[Offline] |
| 19:17 | < RichyB> | Wow, this is um, obscenely fucking nice. http://codecube.io/TxJKwG |
| 19:17 | < RichyB> | http://hmarr.com/2013/oct/16/codecube-runnable-gists/ |
| 19:19 | < RichyB> | That thing just sits there, you POST some C, Python, Go! or Ruby at it, and it spins up a new Docker container (close relative of an LXC container), compiles and runs your code, hands you the results. |
| 19:20 | < RichyB> | It is doing that in less than a second for me including the network round-trip. |
| 19:20 | < Syka> | I don't think it spins up a new docker container |
| 19:20 | < Syka> | that shit takes minutes |
| 19:21 | <&ToxicFrog> | ErikMesoy: use LaTeX~ |
| 19:22 | < ErikMesoy> | ToxicFrog: I am mostly diagramming. I thought LaTeX was for mostly textual documentation with very complicated equations/footnotes/symbols, not so much when the thing shifts over into graphics? |
| 19:24 | < RichyB> | Syka, strongly suspect that it's successfully doing that; the description says so and the code's up here https://github.com/hmarr/codecube |
| 19:26 | | Netsplit *.net <-> *.split quits: @iospace, Typherix, @Pandemic, @Syloq, Xires, Attilla, @froztbyte, LurtzCZ, @Reiv, @Orthia, (+13 more, use /NETSPLIT to show all of them) |
| 19:31 | | Netsplit over, joins: jeroud, &jerith, @Orthia, @Pandemic, @Reiv, @iospace, @froztbyte, @gnolam, &McMartin, Stalker (+13 more) |
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| 20:13 | < ToxicFrog_> | ErikMesoy: mostly true; you can write diagrams directly in LaTeX with TikZ or pstricks. |
| 20:13 | < ToxicFrog_> | That said, I thought OO Impress was the powerpoint clone? |
| 20:14 | < ErikMesoy> | And I thought OO Draw was. |
| 20:15 | < ToxicFrog_> | No, that's the diagramming tool. |
| 20:15 | | * ToxicFrog_ checks. Yeah, Impress is for making slideshows. |
| 20:15 | < jeroud> | Impress is the presentation thing, Draw is the drawing thing. |
| 20:15 | < ToxicFrog_> | Generally you make your diagrams in something else and then import them. |
| 20:19 | < RichyB> | OO Draw is, uh. |
| 20:19 | < RichyB> | I'd rather use Inkscape and import the SVGs than attempt to use OO Draw again. |
| 20:20 | <@gnolam> | ^ This. |
| 20:20 | < ErikMesoy> | Draw was fine for drawing boxes with lines between them, which is about all I ever used it and Powerpoint for. :p |
| 20:21 | <@gnolam> | And as previously stated, new versions of LibreOffice can actually import SVGs. |
| 20:23 | | * Alek thinks he used Vizio or some such thing for diagramming, back around the turn of the century. At DeVry. *spits* |
| 20:23 | < Syka> | visio is so bad |
| 20:23 | < Syka> | dia is also bad |
| 20:24 | < jeroud> | Visio was great before MS bought it. |
| 20:35 | < RichyB> | ErikMesoy, I resort to Inkscape when I have to do that. I find Draw utterly obtuse to use. I have no fecking speck of a clue how to get it to draw readably-sized text on boxes that fit onto a finite-sized canvas. |
| 20:36 | <@gnolam> | Oh gods. I don't even want to know what Microsoft has done to it now. |
| 20:36 | <@gnolam> | Given what they've done to the rest of Office. |
| 20:36 | < ErikMesoy> | RichyB: "on"? I can either use the textbox tool,or click the graphic box itself and just start typing, then adjust font size in either case. |
| 20:43 | < RichyB> | Yeah, that seems to involve fuckery with text becoming unreadable, receding miles from the edges of the boxes, or the boxes being miles long. |
| 20:43 | < RichyB> | I give insufficient fucks about OO Draw to learn how to use it properly when Inkscape is better anyway. |
| 20:45 | | Derakon [chriswei@Nightstar-a3b183ae.ca.comcast.net] has joined #code |
| 20:45 | | mode/#code [+ao Derakon Derakon] by ChanServ |
| 20:46 | | * Derakon goes to work on making a pure-C++ control program for his camera, on the off-chance that the C++/Python transition is causing problems, discovers to his surprise that threads weren't part of the C++ standard until 2011! |
| 20:46 | <&Derakon> | I would have thought that'd have been standard for most of a decade. |
| 20:46 | <&McMartin> | Yeah, uh, no |
| 20:46 | <&Derakon> | So VS2010 can't build my program. |
| 20:46 | <&Derakon> | (And then imagine my further surprise when I can't download VS2013 without an account on the MS website...sigh) |
| 20:47 | <&McMartin> | Uh, how about 2012, the latest actually published version? |
| 20:47 | <&McMartin> | Also, expandable arrays (std::vector) have been part of the standard since 1998 and you couldn't actually use them in C++ code until 2005 because the standard libraries weren't there |
| 20:47 | < ToxicFrog_> | Derakon: suprisingly many languages do not have threads as any part of the language spec, just as a library |
| 20:47 | < RichyB> | Derakon, er don't no please don't |
| 20:47 | <&Derakon> | McM: the MS website tries to throw me to VS2013 instead. |
| 20:47 | <&McMartin> | This surprises me |
| 20:47 | < RichyB> | oh wait |
| 20:47 | <&McMartin> | Anyway, if you want to do cross-platform C++ development, use the boost libraries |
| 20:47 | < RichyB> | I've read that the new C standard threads are terrible compared to either posix or windows threads |
| 20:48 | < RichyB> | but I don't know about the C++11 standard threads at all, maybe those are actually good. |
| 20:48 | < RichyB> | s/those are/that API is/ |
| 20:48 | <&McMartin> | Most of the things later added to the C++ standard started life in the boost standard libraries. |
| 20:48 | <&Derakon> | This is a one-shot test program. |
| 20:48 | | Kindamoody is now known as Kindamoody[zZz] |
| 20:48 | <&Derakon> | I don't really want to get bogged down in dependency hell if I can avoid it. |
| 20:48 | <&McMartin> | Boost also gives you reference-counted garbage collection for free |
| 20:48 | <&Derakon> | (If this test program demonstrates that the C/Python gap is actually the problem, then I'll implement a more serious solution) |
| 20:49 | <&Derakon> | Boost is also a pain in the ass to install IME. |
| 20:49 | <&Derakon> | It's gigantic. |
| 20:49 | < RichyB> | Derakon, what's your data dependency pattern? If you can, use OpenMP because it's the easiest way to parallelise a C or C++ program by far. |
| 20:49 | <&McMartin> | You don't install *all* of it. |
| 20:49 | | * ToxicFrog_ eyes the fuck out of this codebase |
| 20:49 | <&McMartin> | If you just need "I need to spin off a worker thread", use the OS native for a test program |
| 20:49 | <&Derakon> | RichyB: standard producer/consumer model based on a std::list. |
| 20:49 | < RichyB> | You "just" wonk "#pragma omp parallel for" around the outermost for loop whose iteration order you don't care about and it takes care of the rest for you. |
| 20:49 | < ToxicFrog_> | The default layer is named "DefaultLayer" in the data returned by the server and "" in the config files. |
| 20:49 | < ToxicFrog_> | Thanks a bunch. |
| 20:50 | <&McMartin> | (You install shared_ptr, which is just a header file, and then thread and filesystem) |
| 20:50 | < RichyB> | Ooh, no, OpenMP is primarily for pure computation. You want ordinary threads for concurrency, not parallelism. :) |
| 20:50 | <&Derakon> | Yeah, this is just "Can I receive and store images from this camera without shit blowing up". |
| 20:50 | <&Derakon> | No complex computation. |
| 20:50 | <&Derakon> | Just a ~50MBps datastream. |
| 20:52 | <&Derakon> | ...the only version of VS2012 I can find is for Windows Phone. Goddammit, MS. |
| 20:52 | <&McMartin> | This is bizarre |
| 20:52 | <&McMartin> | I swear I was hunting for this just last week |
| 20:53 | <&McMartin> | Okay then |
| 20:53 | <&McMartin> | This appears to have changed at some point in the last 14 days |
| 20:53 | <&Derakon> | ...if I click on the "Products" tab then it shows me 2013 editions, and then Visual Studio 2010, but no 2012. WTF. |
| 20:53 | <&McMartin> | Did they rename 2012? |
| 20:53 | <&Derakon> | Beats me! |
| 20:53 | <&McMartin> | 2010 isn't as bad as I had been led to believe, at any rate |
| 20:53 | <&Derakon> | But it can't build threads-using programs~ |
| 20:53 | <&McMartin> | Is there something in 2012/2013/whatever it is now that you need? |
| 20:53 | <&Derakon> | 2013 is supposed to be able to. |
| 20:53 | <&McMartin> | Um |
| 20:54 | <&McMartin> | Oh |
| 20:54 | <&McMartin> | Can't you just call CreateThread() like a normal person |
| 20:54 | <&Derakon> | ...I don't know, I haven't done threading in C++ in, uh, ever. I googled "C++ threads" and it said "just do std::thread(func, arg1, arg2...)". |
| 20:55 | < RichyB> | Yes. I'd use Win32 threads or Cygwin's pthreads implementation in your situation, since you have no idea how mature VC2013's C++11 threads might be. |
| 20:55 | | * Derakon googles for "Windows C++ thread", finds completely different resources. |
| 20:55 | < RichyB> | or mostly since you won't need a new compiler for htat |
| 20:55 | < RichyB> | *that |
| 20:55 | <&Derakon> | I don't know why I keep forgetting that Windows doesn't implement POSIX. |
| 20:55 | <&Derakon> | Somehow it keeps happening! |
| 20:56 | < Syka> | there's a simple solution for this |
| 20:56 | < RichyB> | I will admit to being in love with pthreads not because of its technical merits or otherwise, but because I once read 0.5 of a book on it that had Alice in Wonderland quotes ALL OVER THE PLACE in the text |
| 20:56 | | * Syka prescribes 700MBs of Debian |
| 20:56 | <&Derakon> | Syka: great! You got the vendor to write Linux libraries? |
| 20:56 | <&McMartin> | Syka: Build an entirely new data center! Truly a minimal solution |
| 20:56 | < Syka> | Derakon: yes, I threatened them with a disassembled toaster |
| 20:56 | <&McMartin> | Or you can rename your call to a function that takes a void (*void()) and returns void |
| 20:57 | | ToxicFrog_ is now known as ToxicFrog |
| 20:57 | <&McMartin> | To a *different* function, rather |
| 20:57 | | mode/#code [+ao ToxicFrog ToxicFrog] by ChanServ |
| 20:58 | | * Derakon eyes the example of using CreateThread in the official docs, wonders if anyone at MS understands the meaning of the word "simple". |
| 20:58 | < RichyB> | Syka, I was going to say that what Derakon is doing now, pretty much *is* that solution. |
| 20:58 | <&Derakon> | Their "simple" example is 155 lines long. |
| 20:58 | < RichyB> | i.e. sticking up a program on a Windows machine that works with the vendor's Windows-only drivers and exports the data over gigabit ethernet so that it can be moved to useful machines. ;) |
| 20:59 | <&McMartin> | The Windows API is pretty much unusable without google+MSDN in a browser window, yes |
| 21:00 | < RichyB> | Though I'm not sure that Derakon isn't moving it to another Windows machine⦠but I leave that entirely up to his conscience. ;) |
| 21:00 | <&Derakon> | ...why do they want me to specify the initial stack size ._. |
| 21:00 | < RichyB> | 2 << 20 bytes should be enough for practically anything. |
| 21:00 | <&Derakon> | I'm not convinced that downloading VS2013 wouldn't be easier than trying to parse this one function's shitty documentation. |
| 21:00 | < RichyB> | Maybe. Go for it. |
| 21:00 | <&McMartin> | I'd still say just using boost::thread is still the least pain |
| 21:01 | <&McMartin> | Or SDL threads! |
| 21:01 | <&McMartin> | >_> |
| 21:01 | < RichyB> | oh yeah there's an idea |
| 21:01 | < RichyB> | SDL threads are pretty close to pthreads. The API is fairly sane. |
| 21:01 | <&ToxicFrog> | Write the whole thing in clojure, let the jvm worry about it~ |
| 21:01 | < RichyB> | Similar to, I mean. |
| 21:01 | | You're now known as TheWatcher |
| 21:01 | <&Derakon> | TF: if clojure were an option, so would Python. |
| 21:01 | <&McMartin> | TF: The whole point is to see if FFIs are the problem, so C and C++ are the only options. |
| 21:03 | <&ToxicFrog> | Oh. |
| 21:14 | | * Derakon fakes a bunch of data to create a stupid MSDN account, forgets to set the birthdate to something more recent than Jan 1st 2013, is therefore unable to use the account without a parent account to authorize it. |
| 21:14 | | * Derakon creates another account with a proper birthdate by appending "-msdn" to the email address, is unable to validate it because he's not using the right fucking email address. |
| 21:15 | <&Derakon> | Jesus Fuck Microsoft, you don't need your developers to create fucking accounts with you just to download your fucking software. |
| 21:15 | <&Derakon> | Pardon my French. |
| 21:16 | <&Derakon> | Ah, I did the wrong kind of suffix fixing for email addresses. It has to be "+msdn" or the like. And of course if there's a + in your email address then the MS website rejects it as invalid. |
| 21:17 | <&McMartin> | Have you also considered using cygwin+gcc, which will let you use pthreads~ |
| 21:17 | <&Derakon> | :p |
| 21:18 | <&McMartin> | (I hate cygwin, but pthreads is one of the few things MSYS will not provide you) |
| 21:19 | <&ToxicFrog> | The developers of sites that reject email addresses with + in them will be first up against the wall when the revolution comes. |
| 21:19 | < ErikMesoy> | The people who fought for their right to have + in their email address will be second. |
| 21:19 | < Syka> | i dibs the bank developers who stop me having multiple tabs for next |
| 21:20 | <@froztbyte> | eh, + in an address isn't that bad |
| 21:20 | <@froztbyte> | there are worse things in SMTP. |
| 21:20 | <&Derakon> | (I note I also can't delete the too-young account; my only options are to get a parent to sign in, or to sign out. Better not make that particular fuck up yourself!) |
| 21:20 | < Syka> | want to view two accounts at once? fuck you, this is 1996, tabbed browsers don't exist |
| 21:20 | <@froztbyte> | Derakon: this is why I'm born on 1 april 1984. |
| 21:21 | <&ToxicFrog> | Pretty sure that even in 1996 I was viewing multiple pages at once by opening multiple Mosaic windows |
| 21:22 | <&Derakon> | Froztbyte: yeah, I typo'd the birthdate (or near enough; it's a dropdown menu). |
| 21:22 | <@froztbyte> | urgh. |
| 21:22 | <&Derakon> | And now there is AFAICT literally no way to fix it except for creating another bogus account and claiming that account is older. |
| 21:22 | <@froztbyte> | I hate those damned things |
| 21:22 | <&Derakon> | (Which requires creating a new email address, since the old one is already claimed and I can't use + in the email to use it twice) |
| 21:23 | < Syka> | man, microsoft makes me sad |
| 21:23 | < Syka> | their certification sites are sobad |
| 21:23 | <&Derakon> | This could be so simple! Just have the download link actually download the file! |
| 21:23 | < Syka> | Derakon: i dont know why they want you to sign up |
| 21:24 | < Syka> | they could just ask the NSA to notify them, since they know it anyway |
| 21:24 | <&Derakon> | For the precious, precious metadata and adbux. |
| 21:24 | <@Tamber> | But then they wouldn't be able to spam you with marketing crap! |
| 21:24 | <@Tamber> | ...damn, too slow. |
| 21:24 | < Syka> | man |
| 21:24 | < Syka> | imagine if the NSA gets privatised |
| 21:24 | <@Tamber> | *wince* |
| 21:24 | <&ToxicFrog> | At this point I would have torrented it^W^Wdecided to use something else long ago. |
| 21:24 | < Syka> | you'd think googles advertising is bad |
| 21:25 | <&Derakon> | TF: yeah, looks like I'm installing boost instead, I guess. |
| 21:25 | <@froztbyte> | Derakon: it's funny, though |
| 21:25 | < Syka> | at least those that get a penis enlargement pill spam email will actually find it convenient |
| 21:25 | <@froztbyte> | I don't know what metadata they get out of me |
| 21:25 | < Syka> | since the NSA would have checked |
| 21:25 | <@froztbyte> | or adbux |
| 21:25 | <&Derakon> | (The main reason I wanted to install VS2012 in the first place was just because using our existing VS2010 install requires me to be on a shared computer) |
| 21:25 | <@froztbyte> | since in the latter case, my browser tries /very/ hard to make ads go away |
| 21:25 | <@froztbyte> | and in the former case, I'm known by various names such as "Christfuckdammit McSeriously", etc |
| 21:26 | | * froztbyte has a notes file that maps site<->name |
| 21:26 | <&Derakon> | Froztbyte: but if they have a 1% accuracy rate on the account data people provide, then making more people provide account data means they get more accurate account info...on an absolute scale. |
| 21:26 | <@froztbyte> | heee |
| 21:26 | <@froztbyte> | irunno |
| 21:26 | <&Derakon> | Who cares if they send out 99 million emails that never get read? It's the 1 million that do that count. |
| 21:26 | <@froztbyte> | we have a project at $work where the client loves them their numbers |
| 21:26 | <@froztbyte> | they have an age gateway in the way of the site |
| 21:26 | <@froztbyte> | (they're an alcohol company) |
| 21:27 | <@froztbyte> | and currently they're trying to understand why they only have a 12% clickthrough rate. |
| 21:27 | < Syka> | i dont get why theres an age barrier |
| 21:27 | <@Tamber> | So they can say they're doing something. |
| 21:27 | <&Derakon> | Froztbyte is in South Africa IIRC. |
| 21:28 | <@froztbyte> | I am |
| 21:28 | <@froztbyte> | but this client is not. |
| 21:28 | <&Derakon> | So different laws may ap...ah. |
| 21:28 | <@Tamber> | "Something must be done; I am doing something; Therefore..." |
| 21:28 | < Syka> | does .za have that by law? |
| 21:28 | <&Derakon> | Anyway, I go now, to the aforementioned shared computer. Bleh. |
| 21:28 | < Syka> | the US does, I think? |
| 21:28 | <@froztbyte> | some of the same laws apply here, just different numbers |
| 21:28 | < ErikMesoy> | Tamber: I thought it was "Something must be done; this is something; therefore I must do this". |
| 21:28 | <@Tamber> | Close enough. |
| 21:28 | <@Tamber> | :) |
| 21:28 | <@froztbyte> | anyway, this age gate isn't mandatory, it's just how they've chosen to comply with the laws |
| 21:29 | < Syka> | i don't get that with beer |
| 21:29 | <@froztbyte> | this is (yet another reason) why I consider laws to be a crock of shit. |
| 21:29 | <@froztbyte> | even more than one crock of shit. |
| 21:29 | < Syka> | are they preparing for when you can download irl things over the internet |
| 21:29 | <@froztbyte> | Derakon: what device are you typing from btw? |
| 21:29 | < Syka> | in which case, people would just pirate their beer |
| 21:30 | < ErikMesoy> | And there will be fake beer recipes floating around |
| 21:30 | < ErikMesoy> | People will prank their friends by distributing alcohol-free beer that gives you flatulence |
| 21:31 | < ErikMesoy> | It only takes one guy to invent this and a million teenagers to think it would be HILARIOUS. |
| 21:31 | < Syka> | rickroll, but in alcohol form |
| 21:31 | | * Derakon pops in from the other computer, where boost is already installed, tries to find the threading library...C:\boost_1_46_1\bin.v2\libs\thread\build\msvc-9.0\release\address-mode l-64\link-static\threading-multi\what\the\fuck\is\going\on\here... |
| 21:31 | <&Derakon> | froztbyte: I had been typing from my laptop. |
| 21:32 | < Syka> | Derakon: ...\oh\god\i\can\see\forever\ |
| 21:32 | <@Tamber> | [â¦]\and\its\full\of\stars\ |
| 21:33 | < ErikMesoy> | [...]\renamed\these\because\cant\find\out\how\to\delete |
| 21:33 | <&Derakon> | Just tell me where the header and dll files are! My god! |
| 21:33 | < Syka> | [...]\pretty\sure\ntfs\doesnt\support\this\deep\folders\you\know |
| 21:33 | < ErikMesoy> | [...]\do\not\use |
| 21:34 | <@Tamber> | [...]\help\Im\trapped\in\a\filename\factory[...]? |
| 21:34 | < Syka> | \bushhidthetruth.txt |
| 21:34 | <@froztbyte> | you're all lying |
| 21:34 | <@Tamber> | =D |
| 21:34 | <@froztbyte> | folder recursion depth on ntfs is not this deep. |
| 21:35 | <@froztbyte> | (I haven't quite counted, but I think you're not over it yet) |
| 21:35 | < Syka> | fat32s directory depth limit makes me sad |
| 21:36 | < Syka> | since its always 1 layer too shallow for this data i am trying to back up onto a USB drive |
| 21:36 | <@froztbyte> | Syka: you do know the solution to that, right? |
| 21:36 | <@Tamber> | s/s directory depth limit// |
| 21:37 | <@Tamber> | Use a real filesystem? =p |
| 21:37 | <@froztbyte> | well, yes, that |
| 21:37 | < Syka> | I would use a real filesystem |
| 21:37 | < Syka> | but unfortunately windows vista in safemode on a dell dimension doesn't support btrfs |
| 21:38 | <@froztbyte> | the hilarious part is that it's 2013 and fat32 is still the most cross-platform fs. :/ |
| 21:38 | <@froztbyte> | Syka: do it the other way around then. |
| 21:38 | < Syka> | i would, but i dont carry around my atx desktop |
| 21:39 | <@Tamber> | froztbyte, I managed to figure out how to handle transporting files between OSs and all that. I changed career. =p |
| 21:40 | <@froztbyte> | Tamber: haha |
| 21:40 | <@froztbyte> | Syka: you own a laptop, no? |
| 21:41 | < Syka> | froztbyte: not one with a SATA port |
| 21:41 | < Syka> | froztbyte: sealed ultrabook, yo |
| 21:41 | <@froztbyte> | Syka: this was not what I asked. |
| 21:41 | < Syka> | yes :p |
| 21:41 | <@froztbyte> | Syka: you get little external drive controller units that support all the major connector types |
| 21:42 | <@froztbyte> | I have one with sata, pata, and mini-pata |
| 21:42 | <@froztbyte> | it's basically a removable drive with 3 port types, and no shell |
| 21:50 | <&Derakon> | Okay, apparently Windows also doesn't use the POSIX main function. |
| 21:50 | <@Tamber> | Windows? POSIX? Ha. |
| 21:50 | <&Derakon> | ISTR there's a different main you're supposed to provide for console programs vs. other kinds of programs? |
| 21:51 | <&Derakon> | Oh, /SUBSYSTEM:CONSOLE did it. |
| 21:51 | <&Derakon> | I think. |
| 21:51 | <@froztbyte> | stop talking |
| 21:51 | <@froztbyte> | please |
| 21:51 | <@froztbyte> | you're making me remember things I don't want to. |
| 21:51 | <&Derakon> | Forbidden knowledge you thought you had forgotten! |
| 21:51 | <@froztbyte> | no |
| 21:52 | <@froztbyte> | I've just done reasonably well at suppressing it with more useful knowledge |
| 21:52 | <@froztbyte> | aside, from elsewhere: |
| 21:52 | <@froztbyte> | <fijal> tomprince: why would you have GC and refcounting? |
| 21:52 | <@froztbyte> | <fijal> I mean I know few answers as to why |
| 21:52 | <@froztbyte> | <fijal> one is "because PHP semantics are fucked up in the head" |
| 21:52 | <@froztbyte> | <fijal> but I don't know any good answers to that |
| 21:52 | <@froztbyte> | <PenguinO1Doom> fijal: C++ programmers are obsessed with efficiency |
| 21:52 | <@froztbyte> | <fijal> PenguinO1Doom: and I'm not? |
| 21:52 | <@froztbyte> | <fijal> PenguinO1Doom: I think C++ are obsessed with getting their shit crash |
| 21:52 | <@froztbyte> | <PenguinO1Doom> fijal: would you cut your legs off so you could crawl faster? |
| 21:53 | <@Tamber> | *snrk* |
| 21:56 | | * Derakon builds, runs...can't find MSVCP90.dll, of course. |
| 21:56 | <&Derakon> | Why isn't that just automatically included in programs anyway? ._. |
| 21:58 | <@Tamber> | Because then everyone would complain about it being automatically included, and taking up all that space with all those copies. |
| 21:58 | <@froztbyte> | and anyway, what would you do when MSVCP92.dll came out? |
| 21:58 | <@froztbyte> | (<//////////////3 windows) |
| 21:59 | <&Derakon> | ...rebuild your program? |
| 22:00 | <&Derakon> | (I note that if you install Visual Studio, then you get approximately a kabillion copies of these with all the example programs it includes) |
| 22:02 | | ErikMesoy is now known as ErikMesoy|sleep |
| 22:04 | <&Derakon> | Hooray, the program runs, fails to connect to the camera, and exits. |
| 22:05 | <@froztbyte> | does it exit successfully? |
| 22:05 | <@froztbyte> | no zombie? no device port stuck in a half-open state? |
| 22:06 | <&Derakon> | Um, it exits with an error code 1, as I told it to. |
| 22:07 | <@froztbyte> | yeah but I mean, that's hardly the only thing that matters |
| 22:07 | <@froztbyte> | stuck child processes, etc |
| 22:07 | <&Derakon> | It's not even close to making it that far. |
| 22:07 | <@froztbyte> | but if none of those, then all's good! |
| 22:07 | <@froztbyte> | Derakon: ah :D |
| 22:07 | <@froztbyte> | well that's a decent first step |
| 22:07 | <&Derakon> | It's like "main() {if (not initialize() or not open()) {print "Whoops!"; return 1;}Q |
| 22:08 | <&Derakon> | Uh, should be a ", not a Q at the end there. |
| 22:08 | <&Derakon> | Qwerty/Dvorak switching screws me up sometimes. |
| 22:16 | <&McMartin> | Derakon: There should be a pushbutton for /SUBSYSTEM:CONSOLE, you should not have to actually say this |
| 22:17 | <&McMartin> | Note that properly written Windows-native programs even for the console shouldn't actually use the main() entry point, they should use wmain() |
| 22:17 | <&McMartin> | because fuck locales forever |
| 22:20 | | LurtzCZ [Lurtz@Nightstar-0604e0ca.cust.termsnet.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 121 seconds] |
| 22:22 | <&Derakon> | McM: I'm working in the command line with nmake, not in the GUI. |
| 22:22 | <&Derakon> | And I finally got it to compile and run and do the right thing. |
| 22:23 | <&Derakon> | Hell, the actual program logic, once initialization completes, appears to be working on the first try. |
| 22:39 | <&McMartin> | http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2013/10/linux-is-king-nix-of-the-d ata-center-but-unix-may-live-on-forever/ |
| 22:39 | <&McMartin> | This is kind of fun |
| 22:39 | <&McMartin> | It's also kind of amusing because a co-worker has been getting burned by trying to mix certain third-party plugins on Linux and having DLL Hell problems that don't happen on Windows (well, PE32) or Mac (well, Mach-O) |
| 22:39 | | * Derakon watches the test control program go. |
| 22:39 | <&Derakon> | 30k frames so far and no failure... |
| 22:39 | <&McMartin> | And it turns out in his research that they also don't happen on ELF... but the relevant parts of the ELF standard are only implemented on Solaris. -_- |
| 22:40 | <@Tamber> | *snrk* |
| 22:40 | <&Derakon> | I dunno if I want this to succeed or not. I'd really rather not have to integrate a pure-C program into the otherwise pure-Python microscope control. |
| 22:41 | <&McMartin> | Hah |
| 22:41 | <&Derakon> | On the flipside, working is working. |
| 22:42 | <&Derakon> | Maybe I can set up some kind of interprocess comms between the pure-C program running as a daemon and the Python program handling C&C. |
| 22:42 | <&Derakon> | Bleh. |
| 22:42 | <&McMartin> | Blargh, IPC |
| 22:43 | <&McMartin> | Does Python's Win32 library speak NamedPape? |
| 22:43 | <&McMartin> | Er |
| 22:43 | <&McMartin> | NamedPipe |
| 22:43 | <&McMartin> | Also not NamedPope |
| 22:43 | | * McMartin hurls message potatoes |
| 22:43 | <&Derakon> | One major stumbling block is that I'm pretty sure two programs can't hold the camera handler object at the same time. |
| 22:43 | <&Derakon> | Dunno about NamedPipe; I've never tried. |
| 22:43 | <&ToxicFrog> | McMartin: python does implement popen() on windows |
| 22:44 | <&McMartin> | TF: That's slightly different; windows "Named Pipes" are more like UNIX domain sockets |
| 22:44 | <&ToxicFrog> | Right; I'm saying that if you can get away with python controlling process startup etc. you don't need to deal with IPC directly |
| 22:44 | <&McMartin> | Ah, yes. |
| 22:45 | <&McMartin> | You do have to make sure that you open in unbuffered mode if you need two-way comms though |
| 22:45 | <&Derakon> | The big problem would be that the Python program needs to control the camera, and so does the C program, and they both need the camera handle to do it. |
| 22:45 | <&Derakon> | I don't know if the vendor API will be happy with two processes having the same handle at the same time, even if they don't trip each other up otherwise. |
| 22:45 | <&Derakon> | 50k frames without failing; I've never made it that far before. |
| 22:46 | | VirusJTG [VirusJTG@Nightstar-09c31e7a.sta.comporium.net] has joined #code |
| 22:50 | <&Derakon> | Yeah, this looks like it's working. WTF. |
| 22:50 | <&McMartin> | Can you build a Python plugin that does what you need instead and use that instead of theirs >_> |
| 22:51 | <&Derakon> | Okay, so, somewhere in the communication between C and Python, there's something screwing up that causes the PCI bus to lock up and experience severely degraded performance. |
| 22:51 | <&Derakon> | I think. |
| 22:51 | < abudhabi> | Grr. Why do these MX records take so long to take effect? |
| 22:51 | <&Derakon> | What I might try is replacing my current SWIG-based glue code with ctypes or something similar. |
| 22:52 | <&Derakon> | Alas, their library is not open-source, so I can't just talk directly to the card in Python~ |
| 22:53 | < abudhabi> | SWIG sounds like there's booze involved somewhere. |
| 22:53 | <&Derakon> | SWIG is a program for automatically generating language-specific glue code based on defined interface files. |
| 22:54 | <&Derakon> | So you say "This library has a function that accepts two ints and returns a float" and ask it for Python bindings and it'll make the .cxx file for you to compile. |
| 22:54 | <&Derakon> | Neat idea, kind of overkill in our case, but it's how we've handled this situation in the past and at the time I didn't know anything about ctypes. |
| 22:58 | <@gnolam> | McMartin: yes. |
| 22:59 | <@gnolam> | McMartin: it's the method I chose to communicate between The Beast and my code. |
| 23:04 | <&Derakon> | I think I'll declare victory for today on this project, and go think about Pyrrhus for a bit. |
| 23:04 | | Derakon [chriswei@Nightstar-a3b183ae.ca.comcast.net] has quit [[NS] Quit: leaving] |
| --- Log closed Wed Oct 23 00:00:01 2013 |