| --- Log opened Sat Jul 27 00:00:41 2013 |
| 00:11 | | Derakon[AFK] is now known as Derakon |
| 00:36 | | You're now known as TheWatcher[T-2] |
| 00:42 | | You're now known as TheWatcher[zZzZ] |
| 00:44 | < Azash> | Apparently the magic number for core dumps in Solaris is 0xDEFEC8ED |
| 00:44 | <@Alek> | ahahaha |
| 00:44 | | * Alek slowclaps |
| 00:46 | <&McMartin> | System done shat itself again |
| 00:46 | < Azash> | McMartin: Out of curiosity, have you ever played Red Dead Redemption? |
| 00:47 | <&McMartin> | I have not; the GTA-style open-world game really doesn't appeal to me much |
| 00:47 | | * Azash nods |
| 00:48 | <&McMartin> | (Though I have a few sitting on my backlog because of megasales or bundles; SR3 and JC2, at least) |
| 00:57 | <@Alek> | I've got a number of those also. |
| 00:57 | <@Alek> | I'm in the mood sometimes. |
| 00:57 | <@Alek> | but not always. |
| 00:58 | <@Alek> | not sure about SR3 or JC2, but I don't have RDR. |
| 00:58 | <@Alek> | I do have the GTA games up to SA. thanks Steam. XD |
| 00:59 | <&McMartin> | My favorite fact about JC2 is that you apparently have a magic grapple claw that you can use to spiderman around places |
| 00:59 | <&McMartin> | This also means that you can negate falling damage by grapple-clawing the ground after leaping off a building |
| 00:59 | <&McMartin> | To quote Yahtzee: "That's right, the best way to not take damage from slamming into the ground is to slam into it slightly faster! Maybe it's a homeopathic thing." |
| 01:03 | <@Alek> | what ARE SR3 and JC2? |
| 01:04 | <&McMartin> | Saint's Row 3, Just Cause 2. |
| 01:05 | <@gnolam> | McMartin: even the developer's say that Just Cause 2 is "the laws of physics on drugs". :) |
| 01:05 | <@gnolam> | Gah |
| 01:05 | <@gnolam> | *developers |
| 01:11 | <&McMartin> | BL2 is my current Be A Psychopath game of choice |
| 01:11 | < Azash> | McMartin: IIRC you can also do things like hook planes up to objects and watch them crash |
| 01:11 | <&Derakon> | It's pretty good for that. |
| 01:13 | <&McMartin> | Azash: Anyway, anything particularly notable about RDR? |
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| 01:13 | < Azash> | I would praise it endlessly but you mentioned you don't like those types of games |
| 01:13 | < Azash> | 01:46 <&McMartin> System done shat itself again < this is just eerily similar to one of those spammed-often lines in the game |
| 01:14 | <&McMartin> | Ah, yes. |
| 01:15 | <&McMartin> | I accept that my statement should be read as spoken by a cowboy leaning against a saloon wall, chewing on a long stalk of grass. |
| 01:15 | < Azash> | Haha, quite similar |
| 01:15 | < Azash> | Basically, you can play poker with assorted townsfolk that will talk gossip and whatnot |
| 01:16 | < Azash> | And some notable exceptions either have limited pools of comments or have so many gems that they get a bit repetitive |
| 01:16 | < Azash> | Hearing the same guy say "you heard old timer done shit himself again?" the tenth time in as many minutes is grating :P |
| 01:16 | <&McMartin> | Heh. |
| 01:16 | <&McMartin> | Now that you mention it, I think "shat" is an early-twentieth-century-ism. |
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| 01:56 | <@Alek> | oh yeah, I do have JC 1+2 |
| 01:58 | <@Alek> | and played a bit of JC2 for a summer event. I think either last year or more likely the one before. |
| 02:08 | | * McMartin blinks. |
| 02:08 | <&McMartin> | Right then. |
| 02:08 | <&McMartin> | ECL solves Klotski in five seconds. |
| 02:09 | <&McMartin> | On the old shitty machine. |
| 02:10 | <&McMartin> | So, basically, five times faster than the CLISP compiler. |
| 02:10 | <&McMartin> | And eight times faster than the Haskell implementation. |
| 02:10 | <&ToxicFrog> | ECL? |
| 02:11 | <&McMartin> | Embeddable Common Lisp, apparently. |
| 02:11 | <&McMartin> | It's one of the three Common Lisp implementations I've found in Fedora's repos. |
| 02:11 | <&McMartin> | It's a C emitter, like Gambit. |
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| 02:43 | < Vorntastic> | Hm. Real-world examples of 0-indexed things I can think of: time of day, european and old us floor numbering, counting, uh. |
| 02:43 | <&ToxicFrog> | Coordinates |
| 02:43 | <&ToxicFrog> | Distances in general |
| 02:44 | <&ToxicFrog> | And all derivatives thereof (velocity, acceleration, etc) |
| 02:47 | < Vorntastic> | I'm not entirely sure that counts as 0 indexing; I want, uh, it feels like things that can go negative aren't 0-indexed. |
| 02:50 | <&ToxicFrog> | Should floors count, then? |
| 02:51 | < Vorntastic> | This is fuzzy. Modern US floor numbering I find acts like b3 b2 b1 1 2 3; europe seems to prefer b3 b2 b1 G 1 2 3 |
| 02:51 | <&ToxicFrog> | Counting probably shouldn't; most people count from 1. |
| 02:51 | <&Derakon> | Vorn: counting time. |
| 02:51 | <&Derakon> | (I.e. you start counting at 0 when the thing you are timing starts) |
| 02:52 | <&ToxicFrog> | Most physical properties - not just velocity but mass, pressure, temperature, etc - scale from 0 |
| 02:52 | < Vorntastic> | Yeah. Your first birthday happens one year after your date of birth |
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| 03:10 | < Turaiel> | My university uses G for the ground floor |
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| 03:29 | <&McMartin> | VORN |
| 03:30 | <&McMartin> | Give unto me your Python Klotski solver. |
| 03:30 | <&McMartin> | There is science to do |
| 03:30 | < AverageJoe> | SCIENCE |
| 03:30 | <&McMartin> | Also, since you've been gone all day |
| 03:31 | <&McMartin> | When I said that 93,000 positions seemed really low, I didn't mean in terms of "how big a problem it was" |
| 03:31 | <&McMartin> | I meant in terms of "that means my program is only managing to process about 3,000 positions a second, which is much lower than I expected" |
| 03:31 | | * ToxicFrog ponders writing a lua implementation and running it through luaJIT |
| 03:32 | <&ToxicFrog> | ...ideally luajit HEAD, with the alloc/store sinking optimizations. |
| 03:32 | | Kindamoody[zZz] is now known as Kindamoody |
| 03:32 | <&McMartin> | By changing toolkits I can get this up to 35,500 positions/sec, which is much more in line with what I'd expect my implementation to be able to handle. |
| 03:33 | <&McMartin> | (The ECL compiled code solves it in two and a half seconds on Osmium.) |
| 03:34 | <&McMartin> | (Interestingly, Haskell takes a significant performance penalty on Iodine; the CLISP implementations all speed up about the same proportion when I transfer from Iodine to Osmium, but the Haskell one goes from 50% slower than CLISP to 15% slower.) |
| 03:35 | < Vorntastic> | Mcm: will do. Fair warning, terrible |
| 03:35 | < AverageJoe> | C for me |
| 03:35 | <&McMartin> | Dude, did you see my Lisp code |
| 03:35 | <&McMartin> | It is The Worst. |
| 03:35 | <&McMartin> | AverageJoe: I've already worked out that a naive C++ implementation will end up devouring all available RAM. |
| 03:36 | <&McMartin> | Any decent C implementation will have to replicate the storage sharing that the LISP implementation does, probably in a similar way, but with reference counting by hand. |
| 03:36 | < AverageJoe> | solution? MORE RAM |
| 03:36 | <&McMartin> | You'll also need some kind of hashtable implementation to efficiently represent the "visited" set. |
| 03:36 | < AverageJoe> | :D |
| 03:36 | <&McMartin> | Yeeeeah, I'm not sure about that |
| 03:36 | <&McMartin> | Also, that's a fuckton of copy constructors. |
| 03:36 | <&McMartin> | I'm kind of tempted to do a "naive STL" implementation to see if it even runs in 8 gigs |
| 03:37 | <&McMartin> | ...hrm |
| 03:37 | <&McMartin> | Is there a program like time but that gives memory statistics? |
| 03:38 | <&McMartin> | https://hkn.eecs.berkeley.edu/~mcmartin/klotski.lisp |
| 03:38 | < AverageJoe> | gdb |
| 03:38 | <&McMartin> | For the "races" I removed the extra O(n) step that only produces debugging code. |
| 03:38 | < AverageJoe> | nah im kiddin |
| 03:38 | <&McMartin> | I mean less valgrind and more like the stuff top gives while it's running |
| 03:39 | < AverageJoe> | htop |
| 03:39 | <&McMartin> | Oh man, time has a shitload of options |
| 03:39 | <&McMartin> | I want the %M format option in time, it looks like. |
| 03:39 | < AverageJoe> | htop with ncurses gives that info |
| 03:40 | <&McMartin> | Right, but I want to see it after it's done. |
| 03:42 | <&McMartin> | OK, for time and space, ECL is 2.65 sec, 271M space |
| 03:42 | | Vornicus [Vorn@Nightstar-221158c7.sd.cox.net] has joined #code |
| 03:42 | | mode/#code [+qo Vornicus Vornicus] by ChanServ |
| 03:42 | <&McMartin> | And CLISP is 12.14 sec but only 85M space. |
| 03:42 | <&McMartin> | ls |
| 03:43 | <~Vornicus> | Remind me of your email, mcm |
| 03:43 | <&McMartin> | PMed |
| 03:43 | <&McMartin> | Haskell: 15s, 322M |
| 03:48 | <&McMartin> | Python: 3.5s, 136M. |
| 03:48 | <~Vornicus> | That's my Python? Hot. |
| 03:49 | <&ToxicFrog> | PAstebin the python? I want to port it to luajit. |
| 03:49 | <&McMartin> | That's to Vorn |
| 03:49 | <&McMartin> | There are two core strategies here, though |
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| 03:49 | <&McMartin> | Vorn's Python and my Haskell use sets of blocks as the board representation |
| 03:50 | <&McMartin> | My Lisp implementation uses arrays of symbols. |
| 03:50 | <&McMartin> | (And as a result can also handle blocks of arbitrary or even discontinuous shape) |
| 03:51 | <~Vornicus> | I actually have mine built so discontinuous blocks are possible. |
| 03:51 | <~Vornicus> | one moment for pastebin |
| 03:51 | < AverageJoe> | -bash: gcc: command not found |
| 03:51 | < AverageJoe> | AHHHHHH |
| 03:52 | <&McMartin> | On the ancient machine, the Python solution runs in 11 seconds, so it's doing something that makes Iodine unhappy. |
| 03:53 | <&McMartin> | (That's the one where ECL runs in 4.8 seconds and CLISP runs in 26) |
| 03:53 | <&McMartin> | (And Haskell in 39 >_<) |
| 03:53 | <&McMartin> | Oh hey, Vorn's solution also handles moving the bricks multiple steps in one move. |
| 03:54 | <&McMartin> | I should probably consider adding that in. |
| 03:55 | <~Vornicus> | I did that specifically because Layton's move counts work that way |
| 03:56 | <&McMartin> | Oof. That rather drastically increases my runtime if I do that uncleverly. |
| 03:57 | <&McMartin> | Up to 6.6 from 2.7 |
| 03:57 | <~Vornicus> | Currently, I'm missing "I can declare multiple solution points", "problems are data instead of code", "certain block pairings can be moved in unison", and "identical but differently-named non-solution blocks are merged in the solver but show up differently named in the solution" |
| 03:57 | <&McMartin> | Whoa, this would also be because I Did It Wrong. |
| 03:58 | <~Vornicus> | http://pastebin.starforge.co.uk/579 |
| 04:03 | <~Vornicus> | oh, and, of course, "the solution is readable by non-martians" |
| 04:05 | <&McMartin> | I need to make mine not need to be told which things are the same shape, and I need to have it read an input file. |
| 04:05 | <&McMartin> | "Have it be data instead of code" is, um, kind of dodgy in Lisp's case~ |
| 04:05 | <~Vornicus> | Well, yes |
| 04:05 | <&McMartin> | But I'd like to have you be able to pass it in. |
| 04:05 | <~Vornicus> | but right now my problem block is -- well, you've seen it |
| 04:05 | <&McMartin> | Yeah |
| 04:07 | <~Vornicus> | Later on I started defining the boundary set by, um, 'drawing it' with each coordinate tuple placed where it would belong. |
| 04:18 | <&ToxicFrog> | Hmm. |
| 04:18 | <&ToxicFrog> | The wildly different semantics of python and lua sets make this translation not as straightforward as I would like. |
| 04:18 | <&McMartin> | Yeah, sets are a latecomer to library standardization >_< |
| 04:18 | <&McMartin> | This is the primary reason the Lisp implementation is array-based, using "sets" only for the visited set. |
| 04:19 | <&ToxicFrog> | The issue here is that sets in lua use an identity hash, not a structural hash |
| 04:20 | <&ToxicFrog> | so set({1,2}):contains({1,2}) is false, since the two {1,2}s are different objects. |
| 04:22 | <&ToxicFrog> | I'm going to have to write a structure-hashing set library for this or something~ |
| 04:23 | | Kindamoody is now known as Kindamoody|out |
| 04:28 | <&ToxicFrog> | This will have to wait until tomorrow, I think. |
| 04:29 | <~Vornicus> | yeah, I kind of saw that coming |
| 04:30 | <~Vornicus> | it's one thing I do a lot of in Python - using structures as keys and set elements. |
| 04:35 | <&ToxicFrog> | Yeah, lua is not so kind to that approach. |
| 04:35 | <&ToxicFrog> | I think an almost-mechanical translation of your algorithm won't be possible and I'll have to do actual work~ |
| 04:35 | <&ToxicFrog> | (or perhaps base it on the lisp version, if possible) |
| 04:38 | <&ToxicFrog> | Actually, yeah, the clisp version looks like a more natural translation. |
| 04:48 | < AverageJoe> | lithp |
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| 18:57 | < ErikMesoy> | Jammy: This is the nerd room, be explicit and not-noobish for them. |
| 18:57 | < ErikMesoy> | Room: This is a friend of mine with DNS errors and connection loss. |
| 18:58 | | * Jammy wave. |
| 18:58 | < Jammy> | I don't know how to be not noobish, that is, by definition, what a noob is. :P |
| 18:59 | < ErikMesoy> | Start by talking about your problem instead of yourself. |
| 19:00 | < Jammy> | Well, like Erik said, I get partial connection loss on a single computer on a home network. Website won't open but chat programs like skype and IRC still work, this only affects my computer and not the three others on the network. The only solution I've found is turning the computer off, then restarting the router and turning the computer off. Just restarting one or the other doesn't fix it. I've |
| 19:00 | < Jammy> | tried renewing the IP and flushing the DNS during the error and neither works. |
| 19:01 | < ErikMesoy> | that should read "turning the computer off, then restarting the router and turning the computer ON." I take it |
| 19:02 | < Jammy> | Yes. |
| 19:14 | <&ToxicFrog> | What OS? |
| 19:15 | < Jammy> | Win7. |
| 19:15 | <&ToxicFrog> | When this happens, do the other computers stop working if you do a DHCP release/renew before restarting the router? |
| 19:16 | <&ToxicFrog> | Does restarting the router and then doing a DHCP release/renew on the win7 machine without restarting it work? |
| 19:16 | < Jammy> | I haven't tried that, but that will be the next thing that I do when it happens. |
| 19:17 | < Jammy> | Cause release/ renew without restarting the router causes total connection loss, rather than just partial. |
| 19:17 | <&ToxicFrog> | Oh, also, are the other computers that don't have these issues also running win7? |
| 19:18 | < Jammy> | 2 are, one is on XP. |
| 19:18 | <&ToxicFrog> | Weird. |
| 19:19 | <&ToxicFrog> | Oh yeah, and what's the router running? |
| 19:22 | < Jammy> | I logged into it and saw Virgin Media and Netgear, do you mean that? |
| 19:22 | < Jammy> | I had a feeling my original answer of "wireless?" would have been laughed out of the channel. :P |
| 19:30 | <&ToxicFrog> | So you aren't running custom firmware, then. |
| 19:31 | < Jammy> | Nope, everythings pretty default. |
| 19:35 | <&ToxicFrog> | We probably aren't going to get any useful diagnostics out of the router itself, then. |
| 19:39 | < ErikMesoy> | Hmm. Possible IP conflict between multiple machines on the network? |
| 19:39 | < ErikMesoy> | Jammy, do the words "address allocation" or "static IP address" mean anything to you? |
| 19:40 | < Jammy> | Vaguely. |
| 19:40 | < Jammy> | The former more than the latter. |
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| 19:44 | < ErikMesoy> | Sounds like you're using the default there, which is to obtain addresses dynamically, which shouldn't cause this. |
| 19:44 | < ErikMesoy> | Hell of a nuisance to look up anyway. (For reference: Control Panel -> Network and Internet -> Network and Sharing Center -> click on your connection -> click on (shield) Properties -> Networking tab -> click Internet Protocol -> click Properties again.) |
| 19:50 | < ErikMesoy> | When you lose browser internet but retain skype, have tried pointing the browser to an IP address? |
| 20:04 | < [R]> | Possible root issue: "router" software crashed, no longer capable of handling DHCP or DNS queries. Possible work around: manually assign Google DNS (or other public DNS servers) as the DNS servers to use. IPs are 8.8.8.8 and 8.8.4.4. |
| 20:05 | < [R]> | Optional items: how to determine if no host on a network is serving DHCP requests. DHCP release/renew, if the IP returned is 169.something then there is no working DHCP on the network (or a bogo-configured one). |
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| 22:25 | < Azash> | https://github.com/mame/quine-relay/ |
| 22:26 | < ErikMesoy> | That rb file is awesome. |
| 22:27 | < Azash> | Haha |
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| --- Log closed Sun Jul 28 00:00:57 2013 |