| --- Log opened Fri Jul 26 00:00:25 2013 |
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| 01:02 | <&McMartin> | ToxicFrog: It looks like my Fibonacci stream I actually used when I needed one was a lot more straightforward |
| 01:02 | <&McMartin> | (def fib-seq (letfn [(aux [a b] (cons a (lazy-seq (aux b (+ a b)))))] (aux 0 1))) |
| 01:02 | <&McMartin> | Also, looking at Common LISP I'm starting to see where a lot of Clojure's stuff came from >_> |
| 01:02 | <&McMartin> | (letfn is basically CLISP's LABELS, though it's slightly less necessary since Clojure is a LISP-1 and CLISP is not) |
| 01:02 | <&McMartin> | (Programming in CLISP really does feel like using a constrained Python. It's a bizarre experience.) |
| 01:06 | | Derakon[AFK] is now known as Derakon |
| 01:14 | | * McMartin tries out the fib-seq on the command line, gets a pointed reminder that Clojure doesn't autopromote fixnums >_< |
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| 02:45 | < Serah> | Is there some means to make a browser (IE) not translate a space into %20? |
| 02:46 | < Serah> | A no break space doesn't seem to work. |
| 02:46 | <&ToxicFrog> | ...in a URL? |
| 02:46 | < [R]> | Serah: That's how spaces get URL-encoded. |
| 02:46 | <&ToxicFrog> | No, spaces are required to be escaped. |
| 02:46 | < Serah> | Sorta. The link is to is "C:\WINDOWS\system32\notepad.exe D:\Desktop\Images\Desktop.htm" |
| 02:46 | < [R]> | So my question is, /why/ does it mater? |
| 02:47 | < [R]> | Uhh, IE shouldn't be handling that. |
| 02:47 | <&ToxicFrog> | If you're trying to get that link to launch a program on a specific file, I'm pretty sure that won't work. |
| 02:47 | < Serah> | Nope. |
| 02:47 | <&ToxicFrog> | URLs can't contain (program,argument) pairs. |
| 02:47 | < Serah> | My current workaround is to launch a batch file that does it for me, but that leaves me with a console window for as long as notepad is open. |
| 02:47 | < [R]> | Infact, IE-post 6 shouldn't be able to handle that at all. |
| 02:48 | < [R]> | L2.lnk |
| 02:48 | < Serah> | That's actually not a bad idea. |
| 02:48 | < Serah> | I'll go try see if that makes it easier. |
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| 02:48 | | mode/#code [+o himi] by ChanServ |
| 02:48 | <&ToxicFrog> | Serah: the commnd you're looking for to start something without a window is "start /b" |
| 02:49 | < Serah> | Oh! That might work too. |
| 02:49 | < Serah> | But then, do I need a batch file to start a batch file without a window so I can start notepad without having to look at the window? |
| 02:50 | <&ToxicFrog> | The batch file contains: start /b <path to notepad> <path to file> |
| 02:50 | <&ToxicFrog> | A shell window will appear briefly while that command executes, then vanish as start returns and leave notepad running. |
| 02:50 | <&ToxicFrog> | (also, what in god's name are you doing) |
| 02:51 | < Serah> | My old box died, so I have to use my 12 year old box. And back when I thought it a brilliant idea to setup an active desktop wallpaper with an iframe that could be pointed at specific folders. |
| 02:52 | < Serah> | This iframe can also launch programs (probably requires some fudging to let it do that, and likely incredibly unsafe) and do other silly stuff. |
| 02:56 | <&ToxicFrog> | Aah. |
| 02:56 | < Serah> | .lnk is a bust, but TF's solution sorta worked. |
| 02:57 | < Serah> | It doesn't solve the problem, but it hides it. |
| 03:22 | <@froztbyte> | McMartin: I thought the LISP~>Clojure relationships were fairly common knowledge |
| 03:24 | <&ToxicFrog> | froztbyte: clojure is a lisp |
| 03:24 | <&ToxicFrog> | McM is specifically talking about Common Lisp. |
| 03:25 | <@froztbyte> | ToxicFrog: yes, I know, that's what I mean |
| 03:25 | <@froztbyte> | sorry, I'm probably not communicating this well |
| 03:25 | <@froztbyte> | but I honestly thought all the relationships of where it drew strong influence were fairly well known |
| 03:26 | <@froztbyte> | (it's 04h30 here, I've been up since 9am yesterday, and for some reason I just can't sleep) |
| 03:29 | <&McMartin> | froztbyte: My Lisp experience pre-Clojure was pretty much entirely Scheme. |
| 03:29 | <@froztbyte> | ah |
| 03:29 | <&McMartin> | Clojure lacks tail call elimination but pushes lazy evaluation and purely-functional guarantees very hard |
| 03:30 | <&McMartin> | And since I didn't know much about Common LISP a lot of the "little things" it took from it could have been from anywhere, or just a "let's LISP up Java some" kind of thing. |
| 03:30 | | Karono [Karono@9C034E.4BE65E.E00AF8.FDA077] has quit [Client closed the connection] |
| 03:30 | <&McMartin> | The "obvious" place where it was nodding to Common LISP was its multimethod support. |
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| 03:31 | <@froztbyte> | the "let's LISP up a Java some" is strongly where it started, from what I understood |
| 03:31 | <@froztbyte> | and then apparently it became a pretty good way to get LISPiness out to people in general |
| 03:31 | <@froztbyte> | (I should note I only know all this from a slight distance; the closest I can do is recognize and read clojure code, I can't write it worth a damn) |
| 03:33 | | * McMartin nods |
| 03:33 | <&McMartin> | It's honestly very, very different from the other Lisps I've now used. |
| 03:33 | <&McMartin> | Common LISP has an incredibly strong imperative focus |
| 03:33 | <&McMartin> | It puts more work into its assignment operator than most other languages I've seen. -_- |
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| 03:34 | <@froztbyte> | haha |
| 03:35 | <@froztbyte> | sometime I'll run into sufficient round tuits to lisp a bit |
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| 03:35 | <&McMartin> | (I'm serious. The setf form is *amazing*.) |
| 03:35 | <@froztbyte> | right now I'm trying to become non-useless at putting things into a browser |
| 03:35 | <&ToxicFrog> | setf? |
| 03:35 | <@froztbyte> | since I've run into a couple of places where I now need that skill, albeit just for prototyping |
| 03:35 | <&McMartin> | setf is the generalized assignment operator in Common Lisp. |
| 03:35 | <&McMartin> | Want to set a variable to something? (setf x 42) |
| 03:36 | <&McMartin> | Want to set an array or string reference? (setf (aref x 3) 42) |
| 03:36 | <&McMartin> | Want to insert something into a hash table? (setf (hashref x 'foo) 'bar) |
| 03:36 | <&McMartin> | Basically, anything you read with (function call) is written with (setf (function call) value) |
| 03:37 | <&McMartin> | Structures, arrays, vectors, hashtables, strings, variables. |
| 03:37 | <&McMartin> | All are same to Urggzob^Wsetf |
| 03:39 | <&ToxicFrog> | Nice. |
| 03:41 | <&McMartin> | And then there's a heavy focus on dotimes/dolist/do over recursive solutions in all Common LISP code and tutorials, to the point where the classic textbook on it for decades says "We're going out of our way to be recursive and schemelike here because it's the alien thing" and are hella imperative *anyway* |
| 03:43 | <&McMartin> | (The do form is nice but awkward, I much prefer Clojure's loop/recur, which ends up equivalent to non-insane uses of Scheme's named let) |
| 03:43 | <&McMartin> | (I think the do form is roughly the same as a macro everywhere, though) |
| 03:43 | <&McMartin> | (And clojure's for system is super-nice) |
| 03:44 | <&McMartin> | (And I haven't seen its full power elsewhere, including Haskell and Python) |
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| 08:58 | | You're now known as TheWatcher |
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| 11:23 | <&McMartin> | THE RACE IS CONCLUDED |
| 11:23 | <&McMartin> | In first place: Common LISP, compiled, at 26 seconds. |
| 11:24 | <&McMartin> | In second place, Haskell, compiled, at 39 seconds. |
| 11:24 | <&McMartin> | In a rather distant third, Common LISP, interpreted, at 118 seconds. |
| 11:25 | <&McMartin> | It turns out that in order to be tractable, you *do* have to equate similarly-shaped blocks. |
| 11:25 | <&McMartin> | Otherwise the search space explodes at like move 10, and there are about 170 moves in the full solution. |
| 11:28 | <&McMartin> | "93363 positions considered" |
| 11:29 | <&McMartin> | That seems kind of crazy low, really |
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| 11:41 | <~Vornicus> | it's actually reasonable. In the ones with more moves there's a lot of constraint, so you can't get to a lot of positions easily. |
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| 14:13 | <@iospace> | i |
| 14:13 | <@iospace> | i |
| 14:13 | <@iospace> | i jsut what |
| 14:14 | <@iospace> | our bios vender sent us an email saying "what's the difference between EFI and UEFI Shell" |
| 14:14 | <@iospace> | i... i don't know anymore D: |
| 14:18 | <@TheWatcher> | MADNESS |
| 14:18 | <@iospace> | very much |
| 14:22 | | * TheWatcher stabs javascript in the Elements |
| 14:33 | <@iospace> | heeee :D |
| 14:34 | <@Tamber> | iospace, "U" |
| 14:34 | <@Tamber> | oh, and "Shell" |
| 14:38 | <@iospace> | yeah yeah |
| 14:38 | <@iospace> | smart ass |
| 14:38 | <@iospace> | :P |
| 14:38 | <@Tamber> | :D |
| 14:39 | <@iospace> | wee got some rain last night! :D |
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| 16:04 | <@iospace> | my hand smells of new computer parts, i like that smell ^_^ |
| 16:04 | <@iospace> | though it's probably bad for me :P |
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| 16:16 | <@gnolam> | Pah, a bit of brominated flame retardant never killed anyone. |
| 16:35 | | * Pandemic coats gnolam in brominated flame retardant. |
| 16:35 | <@Tamber> | Mmmm, halon. *drool* |
| 16:38 | <@Pandemic> | lol |
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| 16:41 | <@iospace> | gods i love low level |
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| 17:05 | | * ToxicFrog festoons iospace with closures |
| 17:32 | <@iospace> | D: |
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| 21:22 | | * McMartin flips through backscroll |
| 21:22 | <&McMartin> | But Vorn is of course asleep. Oh well |
| 21:22 | <&McMartin> | I think I was more surprised that it was "only" checking 3,000 positions per second, though my laptop manages 8,000. |
| 21:22 | <&McMartin> | So it may just be that it is *A MERE SINGLE GIGAHERTZ* from the previous decade |
| 21:23 | <&McMartin> | Hilariously it would be pretty straightforward to translate the CLISP solution to C~ |
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| 22:19 | <&McMartin> | https://hkn.eecs.berkeley.edu/~mcmartin/klotski.lisp |
| 22:45 | < AnnoDomini> | http://fatpita.net/?i=8217 |
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| --- Log closed Sat Jul 27 00:00:41 2013 |