| --- Log opened Fri Mar 15 00:00:03 2013 |
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| 01:19 | | * ToxicFrog sets about installing his Clojure development environment |
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| 01:45 | <@[R]> | Finally got my fucking dig.lua program to work right. Except the server sometimes glitches if the turtle starts digging into stacks of sand/gravel. |
| 01:46 | <@[R]> | (ComputerCraft 1.3, I don't get the excavate program from 1.4 :/) |
| 01:47 | <@[R]> | Except IMO mine works in a more logical way (it can start from the center instead of a corner like excavate does) |
| 01:47 | <@[R]> | Need to implement resource dropping though since it fills fast. |
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| 03:36 | | * ToxicFrog flails at clojure |
| 03:43 | <&ToxicFrog> | argh argh argh argh argh argh |
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| 04:46 | <~Vornicus> | ??? |
| 04:47 | | * Vornicus needs to figure out lua at some point here, so he can throw love2d around. |
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| 05:58 | <~Vornicus> | Okay now that I've added 600 lines of just data to my 4e sheet, it's time to figure out what things I can do with it. |
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| 09:59 | <@Azash> | http://cr.yp.to/talks/2013.03.12/slides.pdf |
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| 11:06 | | * [R] finds lua does a bunch of annoying things in regards to syntax and features. |
| 11:08 | <@[R]> | Eg: `while side != i and t.detect() do` is a syntax error (it expects `do` where `and` is, meaning it can't have a remotely complicated boolean expression. |
| 11:08 | <@[R]> | It also lacks the `continue` keyword. |
| 11:09 | < RichyB> | What happens if you write parent around that boolean expression? |
| 11:09 | < RichyB> | `while (slide != i and t.detect()) do`? |
| 11:10 | <@[R]> | It expects a ) where `and` is. |
| 11:10 | < RichyB> | Huh? |
| 11:14 | <@[R]> | It gives the error "expected )" instead of "expected do" |
| 11:18 | <@Azash> | Pastebin it |
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| 11:19 | <@Azash> | Or is it just what you just wrote? |
| 11:19 | <@Azash> | Hm |
| 11:19 | <@Azash> | Correct me if I'm wrong |
| 11:19 | <@Azash> | But doesn't lua use ~= |
| 11:21 | <@[R]> | For not equals? |
| 11:21 | <@[R]> | Not sure |
| 11:25 | <@[R]> | https://gist.github.com/RobinStamer/5169204 |
| 11:25 | <@[R]> | Hmm, looks like I did get it to accept an `and` in a loop condition |
| 11:25 | <@[R]> | (Line 11 BTW) |
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| 11:28 | <@[R]> | Yeah, that code does work |
| 11:30 | <@Azash> | [R]: Yeah I remember ~= being correct |
| 11:30 | <@Azash> | But glad you got it to work anywy |
| 11:30 | <@Azash> | +a |
| 11:32 | <@[R]> | Ugh, that's even more annoying |
| 11:36 | <@[R]> | But thanks for pointing that out |
| 11:36 | | * [R] is still learning the language obv |
| 11:37 | <@Azash> | Yeah I don't really get it either, wonder if you could do any equivalent of DEFINER |
| 11:37 | <@Azash> | s/R$// |
| 11:38 | <@[R]> | Not sure |
| 11:39 | <@[R]> | Probably not, esp considering my environment (MineCraft) |
| 11:40 | < LootOfficer> | Hrm. This is strange. I have a laptop here running Win7SP1 that often freezes and refuses to read DVDs (but reads CDs just fine). |
| 11:40 | < LootOfficer> | The laptop seems rather new. |
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| 11:40 | <@[R]> | memtest. |
| 11:41 | <@[R]> | Also, if you can, burn a full DVD, then verify the DVD against the iso. |
| 11:42 | <@[R]> | (By full DVD I mean a ~4GB one not a ~900MB one) |
| 12:22 | < LootOfficer> | Memtest passes. |
| 12:36 | <@Azash> | Update/reinstall drivers? |
| 12:38 | <@gnolam> | http://i.stack.imgur.com/T2XrE.gif |
| 13:12 | < JustBob> | Your lazorz require more chargin' |
| 13:14 | < JustBob> | Less facetiously, I mean that your motor might be having issues. |
| 13:14 | < JustBob> | Well, is it a hardware or sofrware issue, for the first question. |
| 13:15 | < JustBob> | You know, two hours later. |
| 13:15 | <@Azash> | JustBob: And I'm organizing a coup in the Malay archipelago |
| 13:18 | < LootOfficer> | Some googling reveals that the driver that's being used apparently is considered troublesome. |
| 13:18 | | * Azash cheers |
| 13:19 | < LootOfficer> | I don't really know what to do about it, however. |
| 13:19 | <@Azash> | Are there any generic device drivers? |
| 13:19 | < LootOfficer> | It's one thing when you need to update the driver, it's another when the current driver is shit. |
| 13:22 | < JustBob> | Remove the drive. Shoot it. |
| 13:22 | < JustBob> | Problem resolved. |
| 13:33 | <&ToxicFrog> | LootOfficer: if you're using the MS driver, try the laptop manufacturer's. If you're using the manufacturer's driver, try the drive developer's. If you're using the driver developer's, try MS. |
| 13:33 | <&ToxicFrog> | Also, try it from linux to rule out hardware issues. |
| 13:34 | | * ToxicFrog upreads |
| 13:35 | <&ToxicFrog> | [R]: conditionals in Lua can be arbitrarily complicated, but != isn't a valid token. Arguably the error message you got should be reported as a bug in the parser or lexer. |
| 13:36 | <@celticminstrel> | Lua has an unusual not-equals operator... |
| 13:36 | <&ToxicFrog> | ~=, yeah. |
| 13:36 | <@celticminstrel> | Yeah, that's what I thought. |
| 13:36 | <&ToxicFrog> | Azash: what's DEFINER? |
| 13:36 | <@celticminstrel> | Doesn't help that this means match in some other languages (or Perl, at least). |
| 13:37 | <@celticminstrel> | Though, arguably it does make sense when you consider ~ being used for complement. |
| 13:37 | < JustBob> | Matlab uses ~= |
| 13:37 | < JustBob> | So does Octave. |
| 13:37 | <@TheWatcher> | celticminstrel: perl uses =~ for match |
| 13:37 | | * celticminstrel shrugs. |
| 13:37 | <@celticminstrel> | TheWatcher: Okay, still close though. |
| 13:37 | | ToxicFrog is now known as ToxicFrog|W`rkn |
| 13:38 | <&ToxicFrog|W`rkn> | (I am the closest thing this channel has to a Lua expert, so feel free to direct lua-related questions to me when I'm online) |
| 13:38 | < LootOfficer> | ToxicFrog: What is especially strange to me is that it behaves as if were a CD-ROM drive, rather than a DVD drive. In the past, I have observed the exact same behaviour as I see here when I put a DVD disc into a CD drive. |
| 13:42 | <@Azash> | ToxicFrog|W`rkn: 12:37 <@Azash> s/R$// |
| 14:04 | <&ToxicFrog|W`rkn> | Azash: ok, what's DEFINE? |
| 14:06 | <@[R]> | Presumably #DEFINE |
| 14:06 | <&ToxicFrog|W`rkn> | Man I haven't used all-uppercase #cpp commands since, um |
| 14:06 | <&ToxicFrog|W`rkn> | ever |
| 14:06 | <@TheWatcher> | I'm guessing it's visual basic |
| 14:07 | <@Azash> | Wot |
| 14:07 | < Syk> | wat |
| 14:07 | < Syk> | define isnt in vb |
| 14:07 | <&ToxicFrog|W`rkn> | Anyways, if that's what you mean, no, lua doesn't have macros (in either the cpp sense or the lisp sense). There are patches that add token filter capability, and it probably wouldn't be too hard to implement a pure-lua token filter |
| 14:07 | <@TheWatcher> | Oh, I dunno then. Never used vb. |
| 14:08 | <@Azash> | Yeah I was referring to the C preprocessor command |
| 14:09 | <@celticminstrel> | ...isn't that case-sensitive. |
| 14:09 | <@TheWatcher> | Yes, it is |
| 14:09 | <@TheWatcher> | it's always #define |
| 14:09 | <@celticminstrel> | Well then. |
| 14:09 | <@Azash> | It's been a while since I've used it :P |
| 14:10 | <@Azash> | So we can summarize that everyone is wrong |
| 14:10 | | * LootOfficer tries an Ubuntu live CD in order to try a DVD if it works under that. |
| 14:13 | | * TheWatcher eyes this student's answer for the first assessment in his c course, ....s |
| 14:13 | <@TheWatcher> | I think this might be /the most complicated/ answer I've ever seen for this |
| 14:16 | | SmithKurosaki [smith@566022.45CDAE.428C43.1EF3EB] has joined #code |
| 14:17 | < LootOfficer> | FFS. The liveCD doesn't appear to want to let the drive be ejected. |
| 14:19 | <@Azash> | TheWatcher: Good or bad way? |
| 14:19 | <&ToxicFrog|W`rkn> | LootOfficer: probably because it's still using it. I kind of assumed you'd use a liveUSB or something. |
| 14:19 | <@TheWatcher> | All they're supposed to do is count the number of uppercase, lowercase, digit, newline, whitespace, and other characters entered via stdin and print out the counters. It's like a 20 line program. This guy has come up with some horribly convoluted 120-line thing involving passing a structure containing counters around between functions and reading in one, counting in another, printing in a third, passing pointers in some places and by value in |
| 14:19 | <@TheWatcher> | others, and arglbleghwargl |
| 14:20 | <&ToxicFrog|W`rkn> | |
| 14:20 | <&ToxicFrog|W`rkn> | :frosh: |
| 14:20 | < LootOfficer> | I'd have to make one, first. I have a Win7 bootable USB, but that one won't boot for unidentifiablereasons. |
| 14:20 | <&ToxicFrog|W`rkn> | Or possibly :newbiecprogrammers: |
| 14:21 | <@TheWatcher> | TF: no, :biologist: |
| 14:21 | <&ToxicFrog|W`rkn> | Oh. |
| 14:21 | <&ToxicFrog|W`rkn> | ... |
| 14:21 | <&ToxicFrog|W`rkn> | Why are you teaching biologists C? |
| 14:21 | | * Azash guesses bioinfo |
| 14:22 | <@TheWatcher> | 'cos he signed up on the course? |
| 14:22 | <&ToxicFrog|W`rkn> | Oh. |
| 14:22 | <@TheWatcher> | Oh, he's apparently already done Java. Wonderful. |
| 14:23 | <&ToxicFrog|W`rkn> | welp |
| 14:23 | <&ToxicFrog|W`rkn> | I don't think that will actually improve matters at all |
| 14:23 | <&ToxicFrog|W`rkn> | But it may explain his design sensibilities~ |
| 14:23 | <@TheWatcher> | Indeed. |
| 14:23 | <@TheWatcher> | Hohum. |
| 14:24 | <@Azash> | Introduce him to the wonders of the ascii table |
| 14:33 | | * Azash dangs, finds his solution would be 21 lines |
| 14:44 | | * TheWatcher tries to work out the best way to say "Yes, this works, but every time it is run it weakens the very fabric of reality, hastening the day when the Old Ones break through once again to sweep mankind from the world in a torrent of madness and terror" |
| 14:45 | <@TheWatcher> | ("you should leave that one to us professional Perl coders, damnit") |
| 14:49 | <@Azash> | I dunno, I figure the old ones would prefer fully decentralized p2p |
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| 15:45 | < LootOfficer> | Is WordPress suitable for something that isn't a blog? For example a more classic website? |
| 15:46 | <@Tamber> | It's fairly easy to hammer it into doing that, IME. |
| 15:46 | <@Tamber> | Whether or not it's really suitable, I can't say. |
| 15:47 | <@Tamber> | It works, though, and it's easy to work with. *shrug* |
| 15:47 | < LootOfficer> | Cool. |
| 15:48 | < RichyB> | Yes and no. |
| 15:48 | < RichyB> | Yes, it'll work. |
| 15:48 | < RichyB> | No, you shouldn't. |
| 15:49 | < RichyB> | If you base your website on Wordpress then you'll inherit all of WP's features. The ones that you aren't using still participate in your attack surface. |
| 15:50 | < RichyB> | If you don't want your site to get defaced by spotty Russian teenagers, be aware that you'll have to be very careful about keeping up to date with the latest core WP version because people keep finding security holes in it. |
| 15:50 | < RichyB> | Also, it dooms you to working in PHP. |
| 15:53 | < JustBob> | http://xkcd.com/1185/ <- Huh. That resembles my sorting algorithm to locate roots in a table. |
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| 15:54 | < LootOfficer> | RichyB: So what would be your alternative? |
| 15:56 | < RichyB> | Depends what you're implementing. |
| 15:56 | < RichyB> | Classic website? Static HTML if it's going to be simple. Seriously, nothing else scales better. |
| 15:57 | < RichyB> | If you want a pseudo-static website where a bunch of nonprogrammers can edit it, Plone and Wordpress are both good options. |
| 15:57 | < JustBob> | Just use MS Word to generate a stylesheet and export as XML. |
| 15:58 | < RichyB> | Plone is less widely used but has a much better security record than Wordpress. The addons tend to be pretty good, as opposed to Wordpress addons which are unfortunately always written by PHP programmers. |
| 15:59 | <@TheWatcher> | JustBob: ... |
| 15:59 | <@TheWatcher> | *twitch* |
| 15:59 | | * Tamber murders JustBob to death until he's dead of it, as a merciful act. |
| 15:59 | | * JustBob snerks. |
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| 16:11 | < LootOfficer> | So, basically, what you're telling me is that if security and simplicity are important, then HTML is best. |
| 16:12 | <@Tamber> | Yup |
| 16:12 | < LootOfficer> | I suppose that using a WYSIWYG editor to make some page templates ought to be efficient enough. |
| 16:13 | < Syk> | plone? |
| 16:13 | | * Syk sets fire to plone |
| 16:13 | < Syk> | plone is trash and you should never use it |
| 16:30 | < RichyB> | It's really not. |
| 16:31 | < RichyB> | It does quite a *lot* out of the box. |
| 16:48 | < Syk> | RichyB: like being useless trash, yes |
| 16:48 | | * Syk had to support 50+ users of a zope/plone site for a few years |
| 16:56 | < RichyB> | What happened to sour you on it? |
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| 19:16 | < RichyB> | FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu uuuuuuuuuuuuuuck internet explorer |
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| 19:17 | <@TheWatcher> | .... |
| 19:17 | <&ToxicFrog|W`rkn> | .... |
| 19:17 | <@Tamber> | o.0 |
| 19:17 | <@TheWatcher> | Quit for emphasis? |
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| 19:18 | <@Tamber> | Or, possibly, "quit to restart to clear up the remains of IExplode.exe"? |
| 19:23 | < JustBob> | Probably the latter. |
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| --- Log closed Sat Mar 16 00:00:17 2013 |