| --- Log opened Mon Feb 11 00:00:12 2013 |
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| 02:29 | <@celticminstrel> | Well, I've done that change and it seems to still work fine. So, yay. |
| 02:30 | <@Azash> | Hmm? |
| 02:30 | <@celticminstrel> | The AI change. |
| 02:31 | <@celticminstrel> | Storing it as a string which is used to look up the function, rather than assigning to the function itself. |
| 02:31 | <@celticminstrel> | Also, what did you mean here: |
| 02:31 | <@celticminstrel> | [Feb 10@4:41:11pm] Azash: If you want you can get a user on my box for IRC and so |
| 02:32 | <@Azash> | Well, I meant that if you want a way to do persistent IRC sessions I can set you up an account on my box |
| 02:32 | <@celticminstrel> | Oh. Meh. |
| 02:32 | <@celticminstrel> | I don't really see the point of bouncers. |
| 02:32 | <@celticminstrel> | Thanks for the offer though. |
| 02:34 | <&ToxicFrog> | They let you stay connected when you aren't connected. |
| 02:34 | <&ToxicFrog> | Which is handy for catching up on stuff you missed. |
| 02:35 | <@celticminstrel> | But I don't often find myself wanting to read stuff that happened when I wasn't here. |
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| 05:56 | | * Derakon amuseds at XKCD. |
| 05:56 | <&Derakon> | OPTIONS FOR EVERYTHING |
| 05:59 | | ErikMesoy|sleep is now known as ErikMesoy |
| 05:59 | < Syk> | snrk |
| 06:00 | <~Vornicus> | nice. |
| 06:00 | < ErikMesoy> | Oh dear. |
| 06:00 | <&McMartin> | The alt text is solid |
| 06:12 | | * McMartin comments his code in a way he hopes would be worthy of Marginalia. |
| 06:12 | <&McMartin> | Given that this is kernel-level code, this is kind of an odd discipline to keep |
| 06:12 | <@Tamber> | Well, at least it's not simply /* Here be dragons */ |
| 06:17 | <&McMartin> | Yeah, the whole goal here is to go dragonslaying so that any other dev on the team could pick it up and understand what we're doing and why |
| 06:17 | <&McMartin> | In fact, my goal is for *product management* to be able to understand what we're doing and why. |
| 06:21 | <@Reiv> | HEY VORN |
| 06:21 | <@Reiv> | Excel question |
| 06:21 | <@Reiv> | I have, uh |
| 06:21 | <@Reiv> | Case: |
| 06:21 | <@Reiv> | x between 0 and 20 => A |
| 06:21 | <@Reiv> | x between 10 and 30 => B |
| 06:22 | <@Reiv> | er |
| 06:22 | <@Reiv> | x between 21 and 30 => B |
| 06:22 | <@Reiv> | x between 31 and 40 => C (etc) |
| 06:22 | <@Reiv> | x > 91 => BIG |
| 06:22 | <@Reiv> | How do I excel |
| 06:22 | <@Reiv> | I tried to use FLOOR but it turned out to be the wrong thing. |
| 06:29 | <~Vornicus> | One moment. |
| 06:31 | <~Vornicus> | Got it. |
| 06:31 | <~Vornicus> | Okay. |
| 06:31 | <~Vornicus> | Find yourself a spot 2columns x 9rows |
| 06:32 | <~Vornicus> | in the first column put the starting point of each category. so 0, 21, 31, etc. |
| 06:32 | <~Vornicus> | And in the second column put the name of each category, so A, B, C |
| 06:33 | <~Vornicus> | then you can use VLOOKUP to look it up: =VLOOKUP(x, my_table, 2, FALSE) |
| 06:35 | <@Reiv> | Right |
| 06:35 | <~Vornicus> | if you plan on filling, use Named Ranges or absolute references. |
| 06:35 | <@Reiv> | Filling? |
| 06:38 | <@Reiv> | oh wait that's what you do with Floor |
| 06:38 | <~Vornicus> | If you want to use the same formula repeatedly in adjacent cells |
| 06:38 | <@Reiv> | Couple thousand times, yep |
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| 06:38 | <~Vornicus> | the VLOOKUP method does not need FLOOR |
| 06:38 | | Derakon is now known as Derakon[AFK] |
| 06:38 | <~Vornicus> | the FALSE takes the last thing at or below x. |
| 06:38 | <@Reiv> | Hm. |
| 06:39 | <~Vornicus> | Make sure your categories are in sorted order. |
| 06:39 | <~Vornicus> | er, sorted numerical order |
| 06:39 | <@Reiv> | Okay |
| 06:41 | <@Reiv> | Dang. |
| 06:41 | <@Reiv> | =IF(FLOOR( A1/10,1) < 2,2,(IF(FLOOR(A1/10,1) <9,FLOOR(A1/10,1)*10),90)) is an error. |
| 06:42 | | * Reiv muses. |
| 06:43 | <@Reiv> | I'm not very good at if statements it seems. |
| 06:43 | <@Reiv> | (Your idea works, this idea works better when the recipient has to pull this off in a spreadsheet without my assistance~) |
| 06:43 | <@Reiv> | ("Copy and paste this sucker into a new column.") |
| 06:44 | <~Vornicus> | no, the vlookup is a shitton cleaner |
| 06:46 | <@Reiv> | Well, yes. |
| 06:47 | <@Reiv> | But it requires a small amount of wranglin'. |
| 06:47 | | * Reiv muses. |
| 06:47 | <@Reiv> | Teach me how IF works in general principles anyway |
| 06:47 | <@Reiv> | I can't actually get it to say "Bob" instead of FALSE. |
| 06:47 | <@Reiv> | This suprises me and makes me feel kind of dumb |
| 06:49 | <~Vornicus> | IF(condition,value_if_true,value_if_false) |
| 06:49 | <@Reiv> | Yeah, how do you make the value_if_true anything other than, y'know, TRUE |
| 06:50 | <~Vornicus> | um |
| 06:50 | <~Vornicus> | You just tell it that. |
| 06:51 | <~Vornicus> | Oh, I see what went wrong here, let me show you. |
| 06:52 | <~Vornicus> | "*10),90" to "*10,90)" |
| 06:54 | <~Vornicus> | As you wrote it, the paren after the 10 ends the second IF, and so what you have for the false condition is actually something that goes (blah,blah) but that doesn't mean anything. |
| 06:56 | <@Reiv> | Oh! Is that what I did. |
| 06:57 | <@Reiv> | Hahaha |
| 06:57 | <@Reiv> | It works beautifully. |
| 06:58 | | * Reiv ponders |
| 06:58 | <~Vornicus> | These IF statements as you can see are an /epic pain/ |
| 06:58 | <@Reiv> | You're right that the VLOOKUP is cleaner, of course |
| 06:58 | <@Reiv> | But I can now /do/ it |
| 06:58 | <~Vornicus> | They're extremely difficult to maintain, so much that for harder ones you practically need a program for it. |
| 06:58 | <@Reiv> | Even if I'm not sure I'd ever want to tease apart =IF(FLOOR(A1/10,1)<2,0,IF(FLOOR(A1/10,1)<9,FLOOR(A1/10,1)*10,90)) |
| 06:59 | <@Reiv> | The fact is that I bloody well /can/ |
| 06:59 | <@Reiv> | And that, dear folks, is why I am still a Programmer. |
| 06:59 | <@Reiv> | Even if I write more SQL than is healthy. >_> |
| 06:59 | <@Reiv> | If Excel let you declare variables mid-line things would be, um, better |
| 07:00 | <@Reiv> | And, of course, *utterly criminal* |
| 07:00 | <~Vornicus> | you do databases. VLOOKUP is a database lookup. with exact_match as FALSE, you win. |
| 07:00 | <@Reiv> | But oh well~ |
| 07:00 | <~Vornicus> | Stop trying to make something terrible. |
| 07:00 | <@Reiv> | What, variable declerations in Excel functions? |
| 07:00 | <~Vornicus> | No, the if statement from hell over there. |
| 07:01 | <@Reiv> | (BTW when the hell would you ever use EXACT_MATCH as TRUE I mean it feels like they got the defaults the wrong way around on that one...) |
| 07:01 | <@Reiv> | Hey, it was mostly an excersize in nesting. |
| 07:01 | <@Reiv> | I've done the VLOOKUP already. |
| 07:01 | <@Reiv> | It's occasionally /fun/ to break out the coder shenanigans, man. |
| 07:01 | <~Vornicus> | Reiv: exact_match true is how a real database works. |
| 07:02 | <@Reiv> | hn? |
| 07:02 | <~Vornicus> | With exact_match true, your things are ID numbers or names; they're not beginnings of ranges. |
| 07:02 | <@Reiv> | Oh, right |
| 07:02 | <@Reiv> | FALSE lets you scan for ranges? |
| 07:02 | <@Reiv> | Cute. |
| 07:05 | <~Vornicus> | that's how I did it. |
| 07:05 | <~Vornicus> | that's why it works for this job. |
| 07:06 | <@Azash> | "I'll often drop down to node.js if I really need to be close to the metal." |
| 07:06 | <&McMartin> | <3 |
| 07:06 | <~Vornicus> | |
| 07:07 | <@Azash> | ( https://twitter.com/shit_hn_says ) |
| 07:17 | <~Vornicus> | what the entire fuck, on every single one of those. |
| 07:18 | < Syk> | o internet |
| 07:18 | < Syk> | "I'm sure the MongoDB devs are extremely competent." rofl |
| 07:18 | <~Vornicus> | who is HN? |
| 07:21 | <&McMartin> | "Florida Man Attacks Three Women With Sword And Peanut Butter Sandwich" |
| 07:21 | <@Azash> | Vornicus: Hacker News |
| 07:21 | <&McMartin> | "Florida Man Busted In Dinosaur Smuggling Caper" |
| 07:21 | <@Azash> | https://news.ycombinator.com/ |
| 07:21 | <@Azash> | McMartin: What |
| 07:21 | <&McMartin> | https://twitter.com/_floridaman |
| 07:21 | < Syk> | bahaha |
| 07:21 | < Syk> | saw that thismorning, had a lol |
| 07:21 | <&McMartin> | Florida Man! The world's worst superhero/villain/something |
| 07:22 | <@Azash> | That's brilliant |
| 08:10 | | thalass [thalass@Nightstar-b95c25b4.bigpond.net.au] has joined #code |
| 08:16 | < thalass> | I had... an Idea. The other day. |
| 08:16 | <~Vornicus> | ?? |
| 08:17 | < thalass> | I was talking to a coworker about RTS vs FPS games. And it occurred to me that you could possibly have a multiplayer game where one player is using an RTS client for the game, commanding troops etc. And the rest of his team are playing an FPS client for the same game. The commands on their HUD are coming from that player, not an AI or game script. |
| 08:18 | < thalass> | Like counterstrike with C&C. It'd be even better if the FPS players didn't know their squad commander was a human. Mostly we were laughing about the relative intelligence of RTS vs FPS gamers. >.> |
| 08:18 | <~Vornicus> | So, Natural Selection |
| 08:19 | < thalass> | It's a real thing? |
| 08:19 | <~Vornicus> | Yes sir it is. |
| 08:19 | < thalass> | Oh good. I have no way of making it myself. :P |
| 08:20 | <~Vornicus> | I also was thinking re: rts and fps the other day: a competitive game, commander vs commando |
| 08:21 | <~Vornicus> | I don't know if that one exists. It might. |
| 08:21 | <~Vornicus> | I also don't think I'd like playing it, I'm not a competitive video games guy. |
| 08:21 | | * thalass nods |
| 08:22 | <~Vornicus> | some weeks ago we were talking about things in this vein; Reiver mentioned how he played team FPS floor vs floor at university, and the first player to die would stay dead and watch the map that came up and yell commands. |
| 08:26 | < thalass> | haha |
| 08:30 | <~Vornicus> | actually I'd be kind of surprised if commander vs commando sort of thing doesn't existt. |
| 08:31 | < thalass> | So this would be two players, one playing from first-person perspective. The other playing from overhead? |
| 08:32 | <~Vornicus> | Yeah, the commander gets RTS controls and has the goal of stopping the commando from chieving his objectives, preferably by, you know, killing him |
| 08:36 | <~Vornicus> | (the reason I thought of it is because I was playing an fps and watching enemies wander around, and the ways they did it reminded me of the ways dudes would wander around in an RTS if you gave them patrol orders) |
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| 08:51 | < thalass> | Interesting. |
| 09:02 | <~Vornicus> | I would be very surprised if the level design tools that let you place dudes in a modern fps don't look at least vaguely like rts tools. |
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| 09:51 | | You're now known as TheWatcher |
| 09:56 | <@Azash> | 09:17 < thalass> I was talking to a coworker about RTS vs FPS games. [...] |
| 09:56 | <@Azash> | There used to be a cool MMO FPS, before the concept was branded, called World War Online (or something similar) |
| 09:56 | <@Azash> | It had a dynamic ww2 map of Europe where you would choose which flashpoint you went to fight into, people with more promotions gave you orders, etc |
| 09:57 | <@Azash> | The neat thing was that commanding officers were actually the ones who made the calls that decided where the fight was |
| 10:00 | < thalass> | huh that's pretty neat. |
| 10:00 | < thalass> | So as you gained huffie/points/exp you went up the ranks and could become one of the commanders? |
| 10:01 | <~Vornicus> | "huffie"? |
| 10:05 | < thalass> | er. whuffie. From Down and Out in the Magic Kingdom. |
| 10:05 | < thalass> | :P |
| 10:06 | | thalass is now known as Thalaway |
| 10:21 | <@Azash> | McMartin: Was it you who tried this out? Anyway, it's been improved http://pasteb.it/#UFrqrwjCLT&sh=java&theme=merbivore_soft |
| 10:21 | <@Azash> | Thalaway: Yeah |
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| 10:52 | < ErikMesoy> | Right, now that my interface is in order, time for me to do a lot of UML on the next step so I don't fiddle and tweak around forever. |
| 10:52 | | thalass [thalass@Nightstar-b95c25b4.bigpond.net.au] has joined #code |
| 10:52 | < ErikMesoy> | Except I hate UML, so I will sit around thinking. |
| 10:52 | < ErikMesoy> | It's like "compiling!" since I have negligible compile time. :-P |
| 10:54 | <~Vornicus> | I've gotta be honest I've never actuall seen UML used |
| 10:56 | < ErikMesoy> | I saw it in my Java course at uni |
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| 11:09 | < ErikMesoy> | If I find myself putting "self." on everything in Python, is this a) a good idea to avoid having to pass tons of references, b) a bad sign that I'm creating a god object, c) both, d) something else? |
| 11:10 | <~Vornicus> | self. is pretty reasonable |
| 11:11 | <~Vornicus> | You use it a lot because that's how you talk about instance variables. |
| 11:17 | <@iospace> | 05:52:24 < ErikMesoy> Except I hate UML, so I will sit around thinking. <-- UML is meant to be hated |
| 11:23 | < ErikMesoy> | iospace: meant by whom? |
| 11:23 | <@iospace> | everyone! |
| 11:25 | <@TheWatcher> | Ugh, uml. |
| 11:28 | <@TheWatcher> | "Here's this system intended to make modelling and diagramming your systems easier! All you need to do is make sure everyone involved has read these 600 page specifications, all four of them, and these extensions, oh and is acquainted with the variations in common use. It's so easy!" |
| 11:29 | <@iospace> | yup |
| 11:30 | <@TheWatcher> | I'll just be over here with dia and a few explanatory notes on my diagrams, kthnxbai. |
| 11:31 | <@Azash> | All you need to know about UML is bubbles, solid lines and how to express quantity |
| 11:32 | < ErikMesoy> | Mine had rectangles |
| 11:32 | <@Azash> | Rectangles are just fascist bubbles anyway |
| 11:33 | | * Vornicus models his use cases with schematic drawings of cheeseburgers. |
| 11:33 | < ErikMesoy> | "fascist bubbles"? |
| 11:34 | <@Azash> | Was just colourfully saying rectangles are a subset of bubbles |
| 11:34 | < ErikMesoy> | TheWatcher: Does UML have email capabilities yet? |
| 11:34 | < ErikMesoy> | Azash: I associate "bubbles" with things that have curved outlines. |
| 11:35 | <@Azash> | ErikMesoy: Well, there are gifs of cubic bubbles so :P |
| 11:45 | | * TheWatcher hairpulls at this student |
| 11:45 | <@TheWatcher> | Why does he hate whitespace so? |
| 11:47 | <@TheWatcher> | I keep telling him, I keep showing him, but no - I still get code like 'for(k;k<no_of_shafts;k++){shafts[k]=create_shaft(lowerf[k],upperf[k],speed[k]); }' |
| 11:47 | <@iospace> | ... what |
| 11:47 | <@iospace> | that is legal but |
| 11:47 | <@iospace> | what |
| 11:48 | <@TheWatcher> | And blank lines? ohhohohoho, no! We don't need no steenkin blank lines! |
| 11:48 | <@TheWatcher> | My eyes, they bleed. |
| 11:50 | <@froztbyte> | Start running it through an automated reformatter |
| 11:51 | <@froztbyte> | If it breaks, "sorry, couldn't mark, dud after I had to fix your shitty spacing" |
| 11:51 | < ErikMesoy> | eh, only if you're in absolute charge |
| 11:51 | <@froztbyte> | Zeroes should work to get his attention :P |
| 11:52 | <@froztbyte> | ErikMesoy: it's only to teach a lesson |
| 11:52 | <@froztbyte> | You can retroactively grade stuff |
| 11:52 | <@TheWatcher> | ErikMesoy: I run the course, so I more or less am in absolute charge. |
| 11:52 | <@TheWatcher> | 'course, I'd need to explain it to the externals |
| 11:53 | <@TheWatcher> | but "MY RETINA WAS FULL OF BLEEDING" might actually work. |
| 11:56 | < ErikMesoy> | Go ahead, then |
| 11:56 | < ErikMesoy> | Sounds like a great thing to do in your position, but it would be a dickish thing to do if e.g. you were marking and someone else set course content |
| 11:57 | <~Vornicus> | wait, that naked k in the init clause of for, what the heck does that do? |
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| 12:06 | < ErikMesoy> | asserts that k is the counter variable? hopefully k was declared elsewhere |
| 12:16 | <@TheWatcher> | Yeah, he's done 'int k=0;' earlier. No idea why he's taken to doing that, either - this isn't his first programming course, so I expect most of this is baggage from previous courses. |
| 12:27 | < ErikMesoy> | Maybe he wants to use it again afterwards |
| 12:28 | <@TheWatcher> | Nope. |
| 12:28 | < ErikMesoy> | Maybe he wants to be able to use it again afterwards? (Grasping at straws here) |
| 12:29 | <@TheWatcher> | (Can't tell ;)) |
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| 12:55 | <@Azash> | Maybe he's picking up that style where you declare all variables at the start :P |
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| 12:57 | <@TheWatcher> | Azash: which I could live with, except he doesn't |
| 12:57 | <@TheWatcher> | there's several places, in fact, where he does |
| 12:57 | <@TheWatcher> | int i=0;for(i;i<something;i++){blabla} |
| 12:57 | <@TheWatcher> | which is just >.< |
| 13:13 | <@TheWatcher> | Blegh, postie has been, no SD card for me. |
| 13:26 | <@froztbyte> | :/ |
| 15:33 | | Syk is now known as syksleep |
| 15:48 | | * ErikMesoy cracks his knuckles. Carefully handrolled code with individual objects is working; now to turn it into for-in code. |
| 16:05 | | * iospace giggles at TheWatcher |
| 16:05 | <@iospace> | Azash: i declare all variables at the start |
| 16:07 | <@iospace> | then again i get errors if i don't |
| 16:08 | <@TheWatcher> | iospace: whyfor the giggle? |
| 16:08 | <@iospace> | your friend with the hatred of whitespace |
| 16:09 | <@TheWatcher> | Thankfully, I have Finished The Marking so hopefully I'll never need to deal with him again. |
| 16:15 | <@iospace> | :P |
| 16:15 | <@iospace> | for now! |
| 16:16 | <@TheWatcher> | SILENCE! |
| 16:18 | <@RobinStamer> | TheWatcher: just take away points for "readability" |
| 16:19 | <@TheWatcher> | I did. |
| 16:19 | <@TheWatcher> | And a boatload of other things, but especially the readability, because my eyes. |
| 17:01 | < ErikMesoy> | All riiiiiight. After breaking things several times along the way, my button creation loop has become "for char in 'QWERTY' ". Button binding has become "for i in range(length): buttonarray[i].Bind(functionlist[i])". Everything is neatly rolled up. |
| 17:04 | | * ErikMesoy feels slightly weird writing "[[],[]]" to create a 2D empty array. Any better way to do it? |
| 17:06 | <@froztbyte> | nono, that's fine |
| 17:06 | <@froztbyte> | your computer is giving you a very shocked look |
| 17:07 | < ErikMesoy> | haha |
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| 22:05 | <&McMartin> | \[0.0]/ // GIR |
| 22:13 | | * Vornicus refrains from singing the doom song |
| 22:15 | <&McMartin> | 6 months of comments |
| 22:17 | | himi [fow035@Nightstar-5d05bada.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 121 seconds] |
| 22:19 | <@Reiv> | ... months? |
| 22:20 | <~Vornicus> | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fqcn_TPu4qQ |
| 22:20 | <@Reiv> | Yes, I know the song |
| 22:22 | <~Vornicus> | there's a 6-month cut in the middle of it. |
| 22:27 | <@Reiv> | aha |
| 22:27 | <~Vornicus> | also, man, I forgot that bit in batman TAS |
| 22:28 | <@gnolam> | 6 months of comments? As in "you have to comment 6 months worth of code" or what? |
| 22:34 | <~Vornicus> | no, 6 months of doing nothing but typing "doomy doom doom doom" comments |
| 22:35 | < ErikMesoy> | ...too much D&D. I'm writing elf.array instead of self.array |
| 22:35 | <@Alek> | hah |
| 22:36 | | * TheWatcher eyes |
| 22:36 | <@TheWatcher> | Wait, you'll have comments... within six months? |
| 22:38 | <@Alek> | er. |
| 22:43 | | ErikMesoy is now known as ErikMesoy|sleep |
| 22:50 | <@Rhamphoryncus> | The problem with obscure indie games in early alpha stages is most of the videos of them are in russian x_x |
| 22:53 | <@Reiv> | But that's awesome |
| 22:53 | <@Reiv> | Because it means the subtitles are /easy/ |
| 22:53 | <@Reiv> | VODKA VODKA VODKA VODKA SNOW ICE KGB VODKA VODKA |
| 22:54 | <@Rhamphoryncus> | heh |
| 22:54 | <@Reiv> | If it's a wargame, of course, it's more nuanced |
| 22:54 | <@Rhamphoryncus> | building game |
| 22:54 | <@Rhamphoryncus> | Factorio if you want to look it up |
| 22:54 | <@Reiv> | VODKA VODKA TANKS RPGs STALINGRAD VODKA VODKA NUKES |
| 22:55 | <@Reiv> | Hrm, building game? |
| 22:56 | <@Rhamphoryncus> | Start by mining a few things by hand, then build a coal-powered miner, conveyor belts, etc, then an electrically-powered miner, etc |
| 22:56 | <@Reiv> | I see. |
| 22:57 | <@Reiv> | VODKA VODKA VODKA MINERS FACTORIES CAVEINS VODKA VODKA SOCIALISM |
| 22:57 | <@Rhamphoryncus> | heh |
| 22:58 | <@Rhamphoryncus> | Oh hey, I recognised a word. "Da" :P |
| 22:58 | <@Reiv> | Ah yes! |
| 22:58 | <@Reiv> | NYET is also possible |
| 23:05 | <&McMartin> | TheWatcher: Well, I actually spent two days commenting 3 weeks of kernel hacking |
| 23:07 | <@gnolam> | Hmm. Speaking of obscure indie Russian games, how's Cradle coming along? The initial trailer ~a year ago seemed quite promising. |
| 23:16 | <@Rhamphoryncus> | Haw. So far this guy's autogun has been destroyed 3 times because he hasn't supplied it with enough ammo |
| 23:20 | | VirusJTG [VirusJTG@Nightstar-09c31e7a.sta.comporium.net] has joined #code |
| 23:32 | | celticminstrel [celticminst@Nightstar-e83b3651.cable.rogers.com] has joined #code |
| 23:32 | | mode/#code [+o celticminstrel] by ChanServ |
| 23:32 | | himi [fow035@D741F1.243F35.CADC30.81D435] has joined #code |
| 23:32 | | mode/#code [+o himi] by ChanServ |
| 23:55 | | * Vornicus tries out Factorio. hm |
| 23:55 | | * Vornicus thinks he can do this a lot better, restarts the level. |
| --- Log closed Tue Feb 12 00:00:26 2013 |