| --- Log opened Fri Oct 12 00:00:30 2012 |
| 00:07 | < Azash> | 02:01 <@a> H: >decompile executable to C |
| 00:07 | < Azash> | 02:02 <@a> >4.5MB .c file |
| 00:07 | < Azash> | 02:05 <@a> H: >if ( (*(int (**)(void))(*(_DWORD *)v12 + 24))() && (*(int (**)(void))(*(_DWORD *)v12 + 16))() > 0 ) |
| 00:07 | < Azash> | Nice |
| 00:09 | <&McMartin> | That looks like a written-out-in-C C++ virtual method call. |
| 00:10 | < Azash> | Not impossible |
| 00:12 | | * TheWatcher[afk] readsup, notes that UEFI is only a step up from old-style bioses in that it's a 'standardised' clusterfuck of horribly designed and implemented shit that people bolt crap onto rather than multiple competing streams of horribly designed and implemented shit. ¬¬ |
| 00:12 | <&McMartin> | To be fair, that's a huge improvement |
| 00:12 | <&McMartin> | Also, the amount of flexibility is important! |
| 00:12 | <&McMartin> | Amdahl's Law, I think it was? |
| 00:13 | <@TheWatcher[afk]> | Yes, because I really want my bios to have a text editor |
| 00:13 | <&McMartin> | "All software will expand to the point where it can read email. If an application cannot so expand, it will expand until it can." |
| 00:13 | <&McMartin> | UEFI can read email, BIOS can't even in theory |
| 00:13 | <&McMartin> | Ergo, BIOS has got to go |
| 00:13 | <@TheWatcher[afk]> | At this rate, running emacs on it will be possible. |
| 00:13 | <@TheWatcher[afk]> | (if it isn't already) |
| 00:13 | <&McMartin> | YOU SAID IT WAS A FABULOUS OS BUT A LOUSY TEXT EDITOR, AND THEN YOU LAUGHED |
| 00:13 | <&McMartin> | *LAUGHED* |
| 00:13 | <&McMartin> | BUT WE SHALL SEE WHO LAUGHS LAST, HO YEZ |
| 00:14 | <&McMartin> | UN ZEN VE VILL M-x wear-hat |
| 00:14 | <&McMartin> | *UND |
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| 00:22 | < gnolam> | McMartin: Amdahl's Law is the one about parallelism speedup being limited by the serial part of the algorithm. |
| 00:22 | <&McMartin> | Oh, whoops |
| 00:22 | | * McMartin has a hash collision somewhere |
| 00:22 | | * McMartin is also currently debugging a web application and can't add random other web requests to get it right |
| 00:23 | | You're now known as TheWatcher |
| 00:23 | <&McMartin> | Oh wait, this song I'm humming is from Shatter, not Frozen Synapse. |
| 00:24 | <&McMartin> | (yes I hum autotuned techno music when working on things don't judge) |
| 00:24 | <@himi> | If only emacs had been written in forth it'd already run happily on openfirmware |
| 00:24 | <@Vash> | what's wrong with that? |
| 00:24 | < gnolam> | Wait. Autotuned techno music? How does that even work? |
| 00:24 | <&McMartin> | Use a voice sample as part of MOD-like synthesis, mainly |
| 01:20 | | cpux [cpux@Nightstar-c5874a39.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #code |
| 01:42 | <&Derakon> | Hrm, another Angband dev is reporting that my latest change doesn't handle map scrolling properly for him. |
| 01:42 | <&Derakon> | But it works fine for me. |
| 01:42 | <&Derakon> | And we've both tested with clean clones of the repo. |
| 01:42 | <&Derakon> | So it's not some missing local file. |
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| 03:00 | < rms> | Check his python version |
| 03:00 | <&Derakon> | Nah, I know we're on the same version of that. |
| 03:00 | <&Derakon> | It turned out to be OS-dependent behavior on what happens when you blit a bitmap to itself. |
| 03:00 | < rms> | Doesn't it randomly generate maps? |
| 03:00 | <&Derakon> | Since inserting an intermediary bitmap fixed the problem. |
| 03:01 | < rms> | Maybe it made one that slowed the scrolling |
| 03:01 | <&Derakon> | Uh, no. |
| 03:01 | <&Derakon> | It wasn't "scrolling is slow", it was "scrolling is displayed wrong". |
| 03:01 | < rms> | Ah |
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| 03:47 | <&ToxicFrog> | McMartin: Amdahl's Law is about upper bounds on performance improvements from parallelization, pretty sure it's not that~ |
| 04:06 | < Azash> | ToxicFrog: Is that the one that n^2 units of computation can provide n times the performance? |
| 04:07 | <&ToxicFrog> | No. |
| 04:09 | < Azash> | Alright |
| 04:09 | < Azash> | I wonder who came up with that rule, I saw it in my computer organization book, I think |
| 04:09 | <&ToxicFrog> | It's just: speedup from parallelization is (/ 1 (+ (- 1 P) (/ P N))), where P is the proportion of the program that is parallelizeable and N is the amount you can speed that part up by (naively, the number of cores you have) |
| 04:09 | <&McMartin> | Zawinski's law |
| 04:10 | <&McMartin> | "Every program attempts to expand until it can read mail. Those programs which cannot so expand are replaced by ones which can." |
| 04:10 | < Azash> | Haha |
| 04:11 | <&ToxicFrog> | The corollary to this is that, no matter how low you can get your communications overhead and no matter how many cores you have, speedup can never be better than (/ (- 1 P)). |
| 04:11 | <&McMartin> | That was what I was going for, and had completely flubbed, in my joke above. |
| 04:11 | <&ToxicFrog> | If only half of the algorithm can be parallelized at all, the best you're going to get is a speedup of 2 even if you are using magic. |
| 04:12 | <&Derakon> | Why are you using RPN, TF? |
| 04:13 | <&ToxicFrog> | Because I've been working in C on embedded systems for the past six months and I'll take lisp wherever I can get it at this point~ |
| 04:13 | | * Derakon facepalms. |
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| 04:18 | < iospace> | ToxicFrog: haha |
| 04:19 | < iospace> | ToxicFrog: also, i gave some more thought to the discussion we had earlier, any BIOS code for x86 has to be addressed as UINT32s |
| 04:19 | < iospace> | if you address it as UINT64 and run a 32-bit OS, you can figure out the rest :P |
| 04:20 | < Azash> | 6:20 seems like a good time to get to bed |
| 04:20 | < Azash> | Nice to meet you lot~ |
| 04:20 | < iospace> | is that 620 or 1820? |
| 04:20 | < Azash> | 6:20 |
| 04:20 | < iospace> | night then! |
| 04:38 | <&ToxicFrog> | 'night, Azash |
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| 08:21 | < rms> | So... from what I remember of my Math 30 class, a set all possible combinations of a 3-digit number at base 8 should be 8!/(8-3)! (338), but from making a program that lists all of them instead I get 56. |
| 08:21 | < rms> | Likewise for an 4-digit number with the same resitrictions I get 70 numbers. |
| 08:22 | < rms> | ... I actually shouldn't call these numbers |
| 08:23 | < rms> | I'm removing any entries where they have duplicates (IE all three/four "digits" in the "number" are unique) and removing any entries that have the same digits, but in a different order, than another number |
| 08:24 | < rms> | Basically my question is, what's the correct mathimactical formula? |
| 08:25 | <~Vornicus> | 8!/((8-3)!*3!) |
| 08:27 | < rms> | What's the *3! represent? |
| 08:27 | <~Vornicus> | * being multiplication |
| 08:27 | < rms> | Yeah |
| 08:27 | <~Vornicus> | So in this case you're getting (8*7*6*5*4*3*2*1) / (5*4*3*2*1 * 3*2*1) = 8*7*6 / (3*2*1) = 8*7 = 56 |
| 08:28 | < rms> | Oh! |
| 08:28 | < rms> | I've been misremembering this rule |
| 08:28 | < rms> | Since I've only been doing pairs (two digits) recently |
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| 08:28 | < rms> | Thanks :) |
| 08:29 | < rms> | (Two digits being /2 for uniqueness) |
| 08:29 | <~Vornicus> | Contrast with permutations 8!/3!, tuples 8^3, and multicombinations which I don't remember the counter for. |
| 08:30 | <~Vornicus> | anyway sleep |
| 08:30 | < rms> | Night |
| 09:07 | <&McMartin> | "The same 'scientists' that make these far-fetched 'claims' likely also believe that cats purr because they are 'happy' or that dogs chase sticks because it's 'fun'." |
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| 10:09 | < gnolam> | McMartin: ? |
| 10:17 | <&McMartin> | Mispaste, actually, but it's a quote from Critter Crunch |
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| 11:28 | < gnolam> | Ah. I thought it was going to be something from Conservapedia or the like. :) |
| 11:29 | <&McMartin> | Yeah, no |
| 11:30 | <&McMartin> | It's the Totally Not The Crocodile Hunter dismissing theories that Biggs makes some kind of 'game' out of his feeding habits |
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| 14:08 | < Azash> | Morning |
| 14:09 | <@Tamber> | 'lo |
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| 16:02 | <@TheWatcher> | #code, suggest a linux text editor that's good for coding in that isn't emacs (or vim)! |
| 16:04 | < Azash> | CLI or GUI? |
| 16:04 | < Azash> | If the latter, gedit with a little bit of tweaking is not bad at all |
| 16:05 | <@TheWatcher> | gui |
| 16:05 | <@TheWatcher> | I'm thinking of recommending gedit or kate |
| 16:07 | <~Vornicus> | my preferred editor on mac and windows is jedit, I presume it works on linux too. |
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| 16:10 | <@TheWatcher> | I would say "it's java based so it certainly will", but that's kinda hilariously optimistic these days ¬¬ |
| 16:10 | < froztbyte> | TheWatcher: kate is fairly capable |
| 16:10 | <@TheWatcher> | (it apparently will, though) |
| 16:10 | < froztbyte> | gedit has funnies |
| 16:10 | < froztbyte> | (like shitting "filename.ext~" everywhere) |
| 16:11 | < Azash> | Who are you to judge gedit's taste for anime? |
| 16:11 | < froztbyte> | someone morally superior to shitty GTK software |
| 16:12 | | * Azash concedes |
| 16:35 | <&jerith> | ST2 runs on Linux, doesn't it? |
| 16:35 | <&jerith> | I know people who really like that. |
| 16:35 | <&jerith> | Enough to pay for it, even. |
| 16:35 | < froztbyte> | yeah, it does |
| 16:46 | | Derakon[AFK] is now known as Derakon |
| 17:07 | <&Derakon> | Okay, this is pretty awesome. http://boingboing.net/2012/10/11/game-of-life-with-floating-poi.html |
| 17:16 | < AnnoDomini> | Very. |
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| 17:52 | < AnnoDomini> | Derakon: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xP5-iIeKXE8 |
| 17:54 | < iospace> | back to working on UEFI |
| 18:30 | < iospace> | well, one thing works that should work :3 |
| 18:30 | < iospace> | but the others... well meh |
| 18:56 | < Azash> | iospace: Do you have any suggestions on where to start if one wants to work with low-level concepts? |
| 18:59 | < iospace> | Azash: you're in school right? |
| 19:00 | < Azash> | Aye |
| 19:00 | < Azash> | Computer science though |
| 19:01 | < iospace> | well, do you have a computer architecture class offere? |
| 19:02 | < Azash> | Yeah, it teaches based on the book I have here |
| 19:02 | < Azash> | Stallings' comp org/arch book |
| 19:03 | < iospace> | well it was two classes really, it was Computer Arch/Operating Systems (aka CAOS), then Real Time Embedded Systems |
| 19:03 | < iospace> | those two classes were what did it for me really :P |
| 19:03 | < iospace> | there may be some EE classes you can look into as well |
| 19:04 | < iospace> | granted every uni is different |
| 19:07 | < Azash> | Yeah, I'd need to do a minor at the tech uni here though |
| 19:08 | < Azash> | To do the one electronics course here, I'd need to do a 25cr core module to be even allowed in |
| 19:11 | < iospace> | heh |
| 19:14 | < Azash> | But I was wondering more, any ideas on projects where to start? |
| 19:15 | < Azash> | I can pick up knowledge without courses, I just don't know how I should start |
| 19:25 | < iospace> | ah... |
| 19:25 | < iospace> | i'd say try making a couple programs in assembly but that's more or less throwing you to the wolves :P |
| 19:26 | < Azash> | I've actually done a very small bit of assembly |
| 19:26 | < iospace> | ah ^^ |
| 19:26 | < Azash> | Our undergrand comp org course has a dummy assembler |
| 19:28 | < iospace> | ah |
| 19:28 | < iospace> | i'm working in C right now to be honest :P |
| 19:28 | < Einar> | They'll sometimes let you test out of prerequisites |
| 19:29 | < Azash> | Mm |
| 19:30 | < Azash> | I think I might just apply to the tech uni and do a beng in my spare time :P |
| 19:30 | | * iospace eyes her code |
| 19:30 | < iospace> | why are you giving me ??? when i'm trying to pull the build date? It works when i view the SMBIOS tables directly D< |
| 19:33 | < iospace> | (EDK2 is open source, yay no NDA here :D) |
| 19:33 | < iospace> | well, partially have an NDA but i can talk about EDK2 code if i want ^^;; |
| 19:34 | < Azash> | Assembly would be nice to learn though |
| 19:35 | < Azash> | I always admire reverse engineering and vulnerability analysis but maybe one should learn it to do it themselves too |
| 19:35 | < iospace> | heh |
| 19:39 | < iospace> | whoever decided to specify two spaces per tab in the EFI spec, go eat a bag of dicks |
| 19:40 | < Azash> | Only two? |
| 19:40 | < iospace> | only two |
| 19:41 | < Azash> | That's silly |
| 19:41 | < Azash> | Why does it even specify that? |
| 19:42 | < iospace> | i have no clue |
| 19:43 | < iospace> | or else our vendor did |
| 19:43 | < iospace> | i don't care |
| 19:43 | < iospace> | ^^;; |
| 19:43 | <@TheWatcher> | Style guides usually do |
| 19:43 | < iospace> | nope, that's EFI's spec |
| 19:46 | < iospace> | https://edk2.svn.sourceforge.net/svnroot/edk2/trunk/edk2/ShellPkg/Library/UefiSh ellLevel3CommandsLib/Echo.c |
| 19:46 | < iospace> | here |
| 19:46 | < iospace> | should give you an idea >_> |
| 19:47 | < Azash> | Oh dear |
| 19:50 | < iospace> | hack hack hacky code |
| 19:50 | < iospace> | ^_^ |
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| 20:07 | | * Azash finds http://cnx.org/content/m0000/latest/?collection=col10040/latest |
| 20:17 | | * iospace head desks |
| 20:20 | < Azash> | Hmm? |
| 20:20 | < iospace> | just issues |
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| 21:07 | <&ToxicFrog> | TheWatcher: jedit is definitely my go-to recommendation as a "baseline" editor |
| 21:07 | <@TheWatcher> | Righto, thanks |
| 21:07 | <&ToxicFrog> | It doesn't do semantic analysis or anything, but it has syntax hilighting for a wide selection of languages, is easy to install plugins for, and is cross-platform. |
| 21:08 | <&ToxicFrog> | If you're willing to pay (or can tolerate nagware), Sublime Text 2 is pretty boss |
| 21:08 | <&ToxicFrog> | And has a nice colour scheme out of the box |
| 21:08 | | * McMartin fourths jedit |
| 21:09 | <&ToxicFrog> | And if you have a shitload of spare memory and want a full-power IDE, IntelliJ IDEA is excellent if you're using one of the languages it supports. |
| 21:09 | <@TheWatcher> | TF: just looking for editor recommendations for one of the students doing my C course |
| 21:09 | <&ToxicFrog> | JEdit I don't like as much as either, but it also doesn't come with those caveats and is thus my default recommendation. |
| 21:09 | <@TheWatcher> | (I'll use emacs until my fingers drop off ¬¬) |
| 21:10 | <&ToxicFrog> | (if they're on a netbook or something, perhaps gedit, it has a much smaller footprint) |
| 21:12 | <@TheWatcher> | (no details beyond "laptop", so I'm just going to give several and tell him to Go Forth And See What Works For Him) |
| 21:12 | <@TheWatcher> | But, thanks all for the suggestions, they will be passed on |
| 21:15 | <&McMartin> | If they're on Windows and want a decent but not great editor, they should have Notepad++ |
| 21:18 | <@TheWatcher> | Linux - Lubuntu one machine, mint on another |
| 21:19 | <&ToxicFrog> | jedit will be in the repos, gedit is probably already installed, ST2 and IDEA both have ready to run binary packages |
| 21:21 | | * TheWatcher nod |
| 21:21 | <@TheWatcher> | Thanks |
| 21:22 | | You're now known as TheWatcher[T-2] |
| 21:22 | | You're now known as TheWatcher[afk] |
| 21:32 | < iospace> | O_O |
| 21:33 | < iospace> | so i found that my work may be pushed to the open source repo :D |
| 21:33 | <&ToxicFrog> | \o/ |
| 21:33 | < iospace> | (as this is EDK2 work so :P) |
| 21:37 | < froztbyte> | woot |
| 21:37 | < froztbyte> | nice |
| 21:37 | <&McMartin> | \o/ |
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| 23:17 | | * iospace blinks |
| 23:33 | < iospace> | hopefully monday i finish up the code and then we find out if we're going to send it off to the repo :3 |
| 23:53 | < rms> | Such poor version control practices |
| 23:54 | < rms> | oh mm |
| 23:54 | < rms> | mm |
| 23:54 | < rms> | ... |
| 23:54 | < rms> | nevermind |
| 23:54 | | * Vornicus gives rms some campbell's soup? |
| 23:54 | < rms> | stupid droid |
| --- Log closed Sat Oct 13 00:00:46 2012 |