| --- Log opened Tue Sep 18 00:00:24 2012 |
| 00:12 | | Attilla_ [Obsolete@Nightstar-2ddcc2f3.as43234.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 121 seconds] |
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| 00:34 | <&McMartin> | Oh god, this code was designed by committee over a span of about four years >_< |
| 00:34 | | * McMartin readies the torches |
| 00:34 | | * Tamber hands McM a spare pitchfork. |
| 00:35 | <&McMartin> | No no |
| 00:35 | <&McMartin> | I already have a sword. |
| 00:35 | <&McMartin> | Fire and Sword is entirely sufficient for cleansing |
| 00:43 | <@Tamber> | :) |
| 00:48 | | * gnolam_ ponders tiles. |
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| 07:08 | | You're now known as TheWatcher |
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| 07:49 | <&jerith> | McMartin: You don't need bell, book and candle? |
| 07:50 | <&jerith> | (The appropriate book being Knuth, of course.) |
| 08:02 | <~Vornicus> | It makes me so happy when I realize that the solution to a problem I've been having is in Knuth |
| 08:02 | <~Vornicus> | Because it means I get to kill the problem entirely to death. |
| 08:05 | | * jerith should read Knuth again. |
| 08:05 | <&jerith> | But properly this time. |
| 08:05 | <&jerith> | I only got about halfway through volume one before I had to give them back to the university library. |
| 08:09 | | You're now known as TheWatcher[afk] |
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| 08:57 | < froztbyte> | I've never read Knuth :( |
| 09:19 | <@TheWatcher[afk]> | I should try to find a complete electronic copy sometime. I'm pretty sure being able to read it on my phone will be e-knuth for me. |
| 09:20 | < froztbyte> | rimshot.mid |
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| 14:07 | < AnnoDomini> | Can irssi, like, connect to a remote irssi? I like this shell setup, but typing is very slow if there is lag. |
| 14:09 | <@TheWatcher> | Nope. I assume you're running it through screen or dtach? |
| 14:10 | < AnnoDomini> | I'm sshing into a shell and then into a screen containing irssi. |
| 14:10 | | * TheWatcher nod |
| 14:12 | <@TheWatcher> | Yeah, as far as I know, that's about the only option with irssi |
| 14:22 | < froztbyte> | AnnoDomini: on the remote instance, `/load irssi-proxy` |
| 14:23 | < froztbyte> | /set irssiproxy-ports networkname=port net2name=port2 ... |
| 14:23 | < froztbyte> | /set irssiproxy-bind bindaddress |
| 14:23 | < froztbyte> | /save |
| 14:23 | <@TheWatcher> | ... |
| 14:23 | <@TheWatcher> | Okay, I sit corrected! |
| 14:23 | < froztbyte> | you may need to unload and reload the proxy module if you make changes on the -ports option |
| 14:26 | < AnnoDomini> | How many of those arguments are placeholders? <_< |
| 14:27 | < froztbyte> | just the latter ones |
| 14:27 | < froztbyte> | gimme a moment |
| 14:27 | < froztbyte> | oh, sorry, they're underscores |
| 14:28 | < froztbyte> | http://pb.vuze.la/haxamulexo |
| 14:28 | < froztbyte> | I bind mine to localhost because the proxy module doesn't support ssl, then I run the extra IRC connection over an ssh tunnel |
| 14:28 | < froztbyte> | or at least, I used to |
| 14:28 | < froztbyte> | now I just overlay quassel on it |
| 14:29 | < froztbyte> | the module might be called 'proxy' instead of 'irssi-proxy' |
| 14:29 | < froztbyte> | it's been in my config for about 4 years now |
| 14:29 | < froztbyte> | ah, yeah, my settings file says 'proxy' |
| 14:31 | < froztbyte> | anyhoooo.. |
| 14:31 | | * froztbyte hits a server supplier |
| 14:32 | < AnnoDomini> | Thanks. |
| 14:35 | < froztbyte> | no worries |
| 14:36 | < AnnoDomini> | Hmm. Supposing this works, how do I use it? Does it work like it was some sort of irc network? |
| 14:41 | | You're now known as TheWatcher[afk] |
| 14:44 | < froztbyte> | it basically serves out an IRC network per port, yes |
| 14:44 | < froztbyte> | my IRC configuration is all nicely split into networks, so it's not a worry |
| 14:44 | < froztbyte> | you may have to rewire yours a bit if it's not so at the moment |
| 14:45 | < AnnoDomini> | Does it need root access for anything? |
| 14:46 | < froztbyte> | only if you wanna bind to ports <= 1024 |
| 15:00 | <&ToxicFrog> | I should also get around to reading Knuth. I've only read fragments of volumes 1 and 4. |
| 15:01 | <&ToxicFrog> | Also, if you want something conceptually similar but heavier, look into ZNC. |
| 15:03 | < AnnoDomini> | froztbyte: Fascinating. Will I be able to see backscroll for when I was disconnected? |
| 15:04 | < froztbyte> | no |
| 15:04 | < froztbyte> | it's just a raw IRC connection |
| 15:04 | < froztbyte> | that's why I run quassel on top, because it makes reading scrollback easier |
| 15:04 | < froztbyte> | previously I used to just connect to remote and read there, or somesuch |
| 15:05 | < froztbyte> | you could also plug znc in the middle somewhere |
| 15:05 | < froztbyte> | but I'm not a major fan of it |
| 15:06 | <&ToxicFrog> | <3 ZNC |
| 15:07 | < froztbyte> | znc may die a fiery death ;D |
| 15:07 | < froztbyte> | the nice thing about this setup is I can use it from basically any internet-connectable system |
| 15:08 | <&ToxicFrog> | What do you dislike about ZNC? |
| 15:08 | < froztbyte> | (I have a personal web-irc behind a password protected URL) |
| 15:09 | < froztbyte> | ToxicFrog: mostly the fact that I can't `screen -r` on the box it runs and then have IRC |
| 15:09 | < froztbyte> | it can also be the cause of weird stuff in your logs |
| 15:09 | <&ToxicFrog> | If that's what you're after, ZNC is arguably the wrong tool for the job |
| 15:09 | <&ToxicFrog> | Although you could just run ZNC and then run an irssi in screen connected to localhost |
| 15:10 | < froztbyte> | or just irssi directly and load proxy on top ;) |
| 15:10 | < froztbyte> | but yes |
| 15:10 | < froztbyte> | it's really all making IRC do what IRC wasn't designed to do |
| 15:10 | < froztbyte> | short of the insane protocol, quassel made a nice setup out of it |
| 15:11 | <&ToxicFrog> | In my case, what I want to do is run a local client but stay persistently connected with backscroll etc |
| 15:11 | <&ToxicFrog> | Which ZNC is ideal for. |
| 15:11 | < froztbyte> | mine works for both |
| 15:11 | < froztbyte> | I actually had the same requirement initially, which is how I found proxy |
| 15:12 | < froztbyte> | gave znc a shot for a little while, but it screwed my local logging when I fetched some scrollback in the case of a connection wobble or the like |
| 15:12 | < froztbyte> | and being 200ms+ away from most useful DCs (in the past, anyway), the latency reduction was fantastic |
| 15:13 | <&ToxicFrog> | I've never had scrollback issues withZNC |
| 15:23 | < AnnoDomini> | ToxicFrog: I also want to have persistent backscroll. |
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| 16:03 | < rms> | anno, another option is quassel |
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| 16:37 | | * gnolam eyes MySQL. |
| 16:38 | < gnolam> | Apparently they EOL'd the MySQL Migration Toolkit three years ago, promising that "a future release of MySQL Workbench (post 5.2) will add a migration plugin, providing features comparable to the MySQL Migration Toolkit". |
| 16:38 | < gnolam> | Guess if they've added it yet? |
| 16:54 | | EvilDarkLord is now known as Maze |
| 17:11 | < RichyB> | ToxicFrog: I find the idea of reading Knuth intimidating. |
| 17:11 | < RichyB> | I mean holy Hell is there ever a lot of it, and it's maths-y. |
| 17:12 | | * Vornicus did 1 and half of 2 many years ago |
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| 19:39 | | You're now known as TheWatcher |
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| 21:34 | | * Derakon adds an EXECUTOR device type to his code. |
| 21:35 | < iospace> | a what device? o_O |
| 21:36 | <&Derakon> | It executes things. I.e. performs them. |
| 21:36 | <&Derakon> | Specifically it's responsible for marshalling all the other devices to perform experiments. |
| 21:36 | < iospace> | ah |
| 21:43 | | You're now known as TheWatcher[afk] |
| 21:49 | <&jerith> | Derakon: So it is a Mad Scientist Herder? |
| 21:52 | <&Derakon> | Heh, sure, why not? |
| 21:53 | <&McMartin> | En Taro Adun, Executor |
| 21:53 | <~Vornicus> | ...and mcm says what I was thinking |
| 21:54 | <&jerith> | "You there! Test solution thirty six on those rats! You! make sure you have the results of the nuclear robot trials! Oi! What are you doing with that virus!? I said 'DOOM', not 'BOOM'!" |
| 22:01 | <&McMartin> | For the record, this is considered an anti-pattern by people you should consider ignoring |
| 22:01 | <&Derakon> | What, having a class that's responsible for telling other classes what to do? |
| 22:02 | <&Derakon> | That's not exactly what's going on here anyway. |
| 22:02 | <&McMartin> | Well |
| 22:02 | <&McMartin> | If it's a long-lived class, that's fine |
| 22:03 | <&McMartin> | Having the class that represents "do something" that is created and destroyed with the action they dub "poltergeists" and you should just have the objects do their own work or have a coordinator |
| 22:03 | <&McMartin> | The people you should ignore are the ones that say that coordinators are the only acceptable option because they are intrinsically opposed to value data and keep wanting to hang methods off of everything |
| 22:03 | <&Derakon> | Yeah, what's actually going on here is that we have a device that is capable of sending hardware signals to other devices, and the Executor is handed a sheet of actions and then generates the appropriate signals. |
| 22:04 | <&Derakon> | In-code, the Executor barely talks to anyone else. |
| 22:04 | <&Derakon> | It speaks to the device, and it speaks to the code that generates the action sheet. |
| 22:04 | <&McMartin> | It's the device driver. >_> |
| 22:04 | <&Derakon> | ... |
| 22:04 | <&Derakon> | Yes. >.< |
| 22:06 | | * Derakon ponders the #angband-dev channel, wherein he offered to help another dev get up to speed on Python. |
| 22:06 | <&Derakon> | This may turn into "I have just volunteered to teach the dev community how to do OO." |
| 22:06 | <~Vornicus> | ooops |
| 22:44 | <&ToxicFrog> | Oops |
| 23:35 | | You're now known as TheWatcher |
| 23:37 | | * Derakon eyes the scipy mailing list. |
| 23:37 | <&Derakon> | They've decided to rename scipy? I think? |
| 23:37 | <&Derakon> | And they want to call it "Pylab" instead. |
| 23:38 | <&Derakon> | Except there's already a pylab library, used for simple graphing operations. |
| 23:38 | <&Derakon> | Oh well... |
| 23:39 | <~Vornicus> | wtfx |
| 23:50 | < Reiv> | ... that's a poor name for graph functions. |
| 23:50 | < Reiv> | Derakon: the angband community didn't /know/ OO? |
| 23:51 | <@TheWatcher> | A surprising number of people don't |
| 23:51 | <@TheWatcher> | especially many who think they do |
| 23:51 | < Reiv> | har |
| 23:52 | < Reiv> | Elitism much? :P |
| 23:52 | <@TheWatcher> | No, experience and accuracy |
| 23:52 | <&Derakon> | Reiv: no, Angband itself was made in the early 90s and is entirely imperative programming. |
| 23:52 | <&Derakon> | Lots of global variables. |
| 23:52 | < Reiv> | ow |
| 23:52 | <&Derakon> | (It's also written in C, and descended from Moria which was written even earlier) |
| 23:53 | <&Derakon> | Yeah, there's a reason why I'm not bothering to try to "port" Angband to Python, in favor of a ground-up rewrite. |
| 23:53 | <&Derakon> | Hm, Wikipedia says that Angband 1.0 came out in 1990. |
| 23:54 | <&McMartin> | 15:50 < Reiv> Elitism much? :P |
| 23:54 | <&McMartin> | Yeah, not really, on at least two levels |
| 23:54 | <&McMartin> | First because a lot of the starter languages are or can be purely imperative |
| 23:55 | <&McMartin> | Second because there's also this OO cult thing and most of us didn't drink that Kool-Aid |
| 23:55 | < Reiv> | wut? |
| 23:55 | <&Derakon> | Object-Oriented Programming is the One True Way according to many. |
| 23:55 | < Reiv> | wot. |
| 23:56 | <&Derakon> | I love how we have so many different inflections to put on the humble "what". |
| 23:57 | <&Derakon> | But yeah, many programmers out there only really have experience with imperative and OO, and since OO is easier to organize than imperative, they assume it's the method you must use for everything ever. |
| 23:57 | <&McMartin> | This also involves clumsily recreating non-OO things in ways that they are now OO |
| 23:57 | <&McMartin> | Which also involves doing horrible things to data locality |
| 23:58 | <~Vornicus> | I'm still kind of confused by what it means to use OO for everything ever |
| 23:59 | <&McMartin> | THE STRATEGY PATTERN! |
| 23:59 | <@TheWatcher> | That's probably because you don't have the brainworms. |
| 23:59 | <&Derakon> | I'd say that it means that the first thing you think of when considering a problem is how to shove everything into objects. |
| 23:59 | <&McMartin> | Known to the knowlessmen as "passing in a lambda" |
| 23:59 | <~Vornicus> | I mean, isn't OO basically holding imperative bits together with the data it uses? |
| 23:59 | <&McMartin> | No, it's a mystical ontology |
| --- Log closed Wed Sep 19 00:00:09 2012 |