| --- Log opened Thu Aug 30 00:00:15 2012 |
| 00:23 | | * Vornicus pokes at No Stomach For Lunch, determines he has no idea yet how to do it. |
| 00:25 | <~Vornicus> | I can certainly drag stuff around to make the ethane happen, but the hydrogens steadfastly refuse to be put back in their places. |
| 00:26 | < ToxicFrog> | Which one is that again? |
| 00:26 | < ToxicFrog> | I really need to get back into, and at some point finish, Spacechem |
| 00:26 | <&McMartin> | XOTHOTHOR |
| 00:26 | <&McMartin> | (XOTHOTHOR!) |
| 00:26 | <&McMartin> | HE'S IMMUNE TO BULLETS |
| 00:26 | <&McMartin> | AND LOVE |
| 00:27 | <~Vornicus> | 7-2: Ethane to Ethene and Hydrogen, in a micro bonding reactor, flip flops are available. |
| 00:27 | <~Vornicus> | I think I might see a trick here actually. |
| 00:27 | <~Vornicus> | ...no, that doesn't work, the bond can't happen until the second hydrogen is off. |
| 00:28 | < ToxicFrog> | McMartin: I don't remember which one XOTHOTHOR is either~ |
| 00:28 | <&McMartin> | Pretty sure you didn't reach him. |
| 00:28 | <&McMartin> | XOTHOTHOR is the name of the boss in Chapter 8, IIRC. |
| 00:29 | < ToxicFrog> | My latest boss is BAH SHOGTH, THE CONTROLLER |
| 00:29 | < ToxicFrog> | Which is chapter 7. |
| 00:29 | < ToxicFrog> | Also, wow, I haven't optimized No Stomach for Lunch at all |
| 00:29 | < ToxicFrog> | 415 clocks, 38 opcodes. |
| 00:30 | | * Vornicus is vaguely trying to speed up his version of The Blue Danube, just one step shorter somewhere would make it work. |
| 00:30 | <&jerith> | Idly, http://www.kongregate.com/games/jahooma/jahoomas-logicbox |
| 00:31 | <&jerith> | Number 12 gave me a little trouble until I hit on the right approach. |
| 00:31 | <&jerith> | The rest were fairly straightforward. |
| 00:32 | | * ToxicFrog ponders The Blue Danube. Why did I do it that way? |
| 00:36 | <~Vornicus> | I don't know, but yours is faster than mine. |
| 00:37 | < ToxicFrog> | I wish spacechem had semaphores as well as barriers. |
| 00:41 | < ToxicFrog> | ...I think I see a way to do this without FFs. |
| 00:41 | < ToxicFrog> | I'm not sure it'd actually be faster, though. |
| 00:43 | <~Vornicus> | The Blue Danube is The Danger Zone, except with Flipflops |
| 00:44 | <~Vornicus> | My flipflop version is significantly faster. |
| 00:44 | < ToxicFrog> | How the hell did childhood flu symptoms get this down to 165 |
| 00:45 | <~Vornicus> | childhood flu symptoms? |
| 00:45 | < ToxicFrog> | Someone on my friends list |
| 00:45 | < ToxicFrog> | That's an average of 8.25 clocks/molecule |
| 00:47 | <~Vornicus> | ...at 27-28 inputs, that's under 6 clocks per input molecule. That's recockulous. |
| 00:47 | < ToxicFrog> | Yes. |
| 00:47 | <~Vornicus> | ...hang on, |
| 00:47 | <~Vornicus> | I bet you this is a parallelized version. |
| 00:47 | < ToxicFrog> | Well, yes, of course |
| 00:47 | < ToxicFrog> | 12 clocks per molecule per thread |
| 00:48 | | You're now known as TheWatcher[T-2] |
| 00:50 | < ToxicFrog> | I really wish you could save entire solutions >.< |
| 00:50 | | You're now known as TheWatcher[zZzZ] |
| 00:52 | <~Vornicus> | Me too. |
| 01:00 | <~Vornicus> | 221... |
| 01:00 | < ToxicFrog> | I also really wish you could invert sensors. |
| 01:00 | <~Vornicus> | Like make them go "not this" instead of "this"? |
| 01:00 | < ToxicFrog> | Yes. |
| 01:01 | <&McMartin> | Can't you just point the arrow forward and include a directional arrow in that spot? |
| 01:01 | < Tarinaky> | How do you do mouse picking in 3D? |
| 01:01 | <&McMartin> | It's a fair amount of work, actually. |
| 01:01 | <&McMartin> | OpenGL 1.0 had some routines just for this and I think it forwarded it to the rasterizer |
| 01:01 | < gnolam> | Tarinaky: various methods. |
| 01:02 | <~Vornicus> | McM: sure, but sometimes you want to do crazy stuff. |
| 01:02 | < gnolam> | There's actual picking: rendering the scene, each object a different color, and checking the pixel in the mouse's hot zone. |
| 01:02 | < ToxicFrog> | McMartin: upon considering, this may have the same semantics and in either case it doesn't actually do what I want ;.; |
| 01:02 | < gnolam> | Then there's regular raycasting. |
| 01:02 | <~Vornicus> | There are some subtleties in the semantics here though |
| 01:03 | <~Vornicus> | Consider: you can reach the sensor from a variety of directions, but activating it forces you in one direction. |
| 01:03 | <~Vornicus> | Not activating it, you continue in whatever direction you were going. |
| 01:04 | < Tarinaky> | Is raycasting the more 'correct' way? |
| 01:05 | < gnolam> | Depends on the application really, but in general yes - for the simple reason that it keeps logic and rendering separate. |
| 01:05 | | himi [fow035@Nightstar-5d05bada.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 121 seconds] |
| 01:06 | <&McMartin> | Vornicus: I'm not convinced that makes topological sense without three dimensions |
| 01:06 | < gnolam> | But as always, that's a guideline and not a strict rule. |
| 01:06 | < Tarinaky> | Where would I find out about raycasting? |
| 01:06 | <~Vornicus> | McM: to be honest I'm a little befuddled where I'd use that myself. |
| 01:08 | < Tarinaky> | I've not seen it mentioned in the SuperBible. |
| 01:08 | < Tarinaky> | Although I admit I've read none of them cover to cover (yet) |
| 01:15 | | * Vornicus pokes at jahooma's logic box, gets stuck on #6. |
| 01:16 | <~Vornicus> | I can't figure out how to tell if there's only one symbol left. |
| 01:17 | <~Vornicus> | oh there it goes. |
| 01:18 | | * Vornicus turns from a bicycle into a ....cactus. |
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| 02:16 | < ToxicFrog> | I still kind of want to write a Spacechem compiler sometime. |
| 02:19 | <~Vornicus> | what would it do? |
| 02:21 | < ToxicFrog> | Take input in some as-yet-to-be-determined source form and output Spacechem reactor complex designs. |
| 02:21 | <~Vornicus> | ...yeesh. |
| 02:26 | | * Vornicus finally manages to shave the 2 cycles he needs off of Sleepless on Sernimir IV to tie with TF's speed number there. |
| 02:28 | <~Vornicus> | Next one I need to optimize to get into first place again: Settling Into The Routine, I need to somehow find a 10-fewer-symbols solution. |
| 02:29 | < ToxicFrog> | I don't even bother to optimize for code size, as a rule; I don't find it interesting. |
| 02:29 | <~Vornicus> | I find all three interesting. |
| 02:32 | | * Vornicus reduces symbol count by 11 instead. |
| 02:33 | | * Vornicus thereby defeats iospace's solution. :P |
| 02:33 | < iospace> | :P |
| 02:39 | <~Vornicus> | Next: delete 2+ symbols from Nothing Works. |
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| 02:57 | | mode/#code [+o himi] by ChanServ |
| 03:15 | <~Vornicus> | gnerk. my previous method was so fast I was at streaming and had no syncs across the entire board. |
| 03:17 | < ToxicFrog> | It's always nice when you can do that. |
| 03:17 | <&McMartin> | I optimized for programmer time |
| 03:18 | <&McMartin> | This means I can never revisit them |
| 03:18 | < ToxicFrog> | Spacechem really needs integrated version control, dammit |
| 03:18 | < ToxicFrog> | I'm kind of tempted to write some. |
| 03:18 | < ToxicFrog> | The save files are just sqlite3 databases, after all. |
| 03:24 | <@Alek> | har har har, mcm |
| 03:34 | <~Vornicus> | I keep kind of wishing for a more detailed scores screen. |
| 04:17 | <@Alek> | and a way to save/compare solutions. >_> |
| 04:23 | | Derakon[AFK] is now known as Derakon |
| 04:23 | | mode/#code [+ao Derakon Derakon] by ChanServ |
| 04:26 | | * ToxicFrog cuts 1000 cycles off Right All Along, is still 700 cycles too slow for the #1 spot |
| 04:33 | <~Vornicus> | Achievement Unlocked: Cost Control Specialist. Falling done in two reactors. |
| 04:44 | | * Vornicus still befuddles at TF's speed in The Plot Thickens |
| 04:47 | | Kindamoody[zZz] is now known as Kindamoody |
| 04:57 | < ToxicFrog> | :D |
| 04:57 | < ToxicFrog> | Sadly I'm not as impressive in Right All Along, which is the FF equivalent. |
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| 05:21 | | iospace is now known as iospacedout |
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| 05:43 | <~Vornicus> | I'm still trying to figure out how you did it, that's under ten per monomer. |
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| 05:57 | | Kindamoody is now known as Kindamoody|out |
| 06:29 | <&McMartin> | Ahahahahaha. |
| 06:29 | <&McMartin> | That is *excellent* |
| 06:29 | <&McMartin> | And maybe 12 people will care |
| 06:29 | <&McMartin> | But I am one of them! |
| 06:29 | <&McMartin> | So, as you know Bob (tm), BIT.TRIP runner has some shoutouts to the Atari 2600 generally and Activision's games for it in particular. |
| 06:30 | <&McMartin> | It's only really noticable if you do it in windowed mode, but they also simulated the side effect of Activision's systematic abuse of the 2600's HMOVE register. |
| 06:30 | <~Vornicus> | namely? |
| 06:30 | <~Vornicus> | (also that's some esoterica there) |
| 06:31 | <&McMartin> | Bar of 8[*] black pixels down the left side of the screen. |
| 06:31 | | Derakon is now known as Derakon[AFK] |
| 06:31 | <&McMartin> | [* on a 320-pixel display] |
| 06:31 | <~Vornicus> | aha |
| 06:33 | <&McMartin> | If you weren't systematic about it, the left edge would start at different points, producing a ragged left edge. Air/Sea Battle was the most flagrant about this. |
| 06:33 | <&McMartin> | I learned about Activision's penchant for this from Nick Montfort's book "Racing The Beam", and connected it to the ragged-edge stuff personally by reading the disassembly of A/SB. |
| 06:36 | <~Vornicus> | what I remember about A/SB is how between each row of critters there was a thin line at the left side. |
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| 06:40 | <&McMartin> | Yup. |
| 06:40 | <&McMartin> | That would happen if you did the trickery to get more than two sprites on screen at once. |
| 06:40 | <&McMartin> | So Activision would hide that by doing the trickery every single line, even if there was nothing to do. |
| 06:40 | <&McMartin> | Putting that "thin line" on every single scanline. |
| 06:40 | <&McMartin> | The bonus stage for RUNNER puts that black bar on the left side of the window, but only during the 2600-y bonus stages. |
| 06:46 | <~Vornicus> | Man, I kinda miss some of those atari games. |
| 06:46 | <~Vornicus> | Though to be honest most of them were kind of shit |
| 06:46 | <~Vornicus> | more than kind of. |
| 06:51 | <~Vornicus> | oh, there was the kangaroo one with the hilariously picky jumping physics, and the one where it was a ghost house one and something else, a 2-in-1 cartridge... |
| 06:52 | <~Vornicus> | and hall of the mountain king |
| 06:52 | <~Vornicus> | and... |
| 06:52 | <~Vornicus> | and then I think about other things that came out a little later and they honestly weren't much better. Gogo the Ghost. |
| 06:55 | <~Vornicus> | And now I have the Pitfall II song stuck in my head. |
| 07:06 | < Rhamphoryncus> | Anybody know of a convention on C++ factory functions? Specifically wrappers for the normal constructors, but with less inane limitations |
| 07:08 | < Rhamphoryncus> | More specifically, I want my Matrix class to be constructible using a begin and end iterator |
| 07:08 | <~Vornicus> | When you say "convention", what flavor of convention do you wish? |
| 07:09 | < Rhamphoryncus> | It's perfectly legal to declare it as such, but you can't explicitly give the type of the iterator, nor is it willing to infer it |
| 07:09 | <&McMartin> | Two conventions |
| 07:09 | <&McMartin> | (1) factory functions go in the same namespace but outside of the class |
| 07:09 | <&McMartin> | (2) factory function is a static within the class. |
| 07:10 | < Rhamphoryncus> | Foo x = Foo(first, last); // not allowed, so I have to do this: Foo x = Foo::make(first, last); |
| 07:11 | < Rhamphoryncus> | ergh. Question is a *naming* convention |
| 07:12 | <&McMartin> | Foo::make, Foo::create are both fine |
| 07:12 | <&McMartin> | out of class, make_foo, new_foo, and create_foo all fine. |
| 07:12 | | * Rhamphoryncus nods |
| 07:14 | <~Vornicus> | I've occasionally seen stuff like Complex is the class and then outside the class I've seen PolarComplex |
| 07:14 | < Rhamphoryncus> | I've also ran into this with immutable instances. You have to pass in the values essentially intact, or otherwise have a helper function for each to fix them up |
| 07:44 | < Rhamphoryncus> | template<class T> static Matrix<N> make(decltype(T::begin()), decltype(T::end())); |
| 07:45 | < Rhamphoryncus> | It "accepts" that but it's not the right way of getting the type for begin/end. Any idea what is the right type? |
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| 09:11 | < Rhamphoryncus> | Fixed, apparently: |
| 09:11 | < Rhamphoryncus> | template<class T> static Matrix<N> make(decltype(std::declval<T>().begin()), decltype(std::declval<T>().end())); |
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| 09:48 | | You're now known as TheWatcher |
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| 11:47 | | * AnnoDomini has purchased a can of air! |
| 11:47 | < AnnoDomini> | Time to clean my laptop a bit. I wonder if doing this while in operation will crash it. |
| 11:47 | < AnnoDomini> | Let's find out! |
| 11:48 | <@TheWatcher> | I generally recommend against it, if you're applying it anywhere likely to involve fans |
| 11:49 | <@TheWatcher> | The air blast may force the fans to rotate the wrong way, and arse up the sense signal to the controller. |
| 11:50 | < AnnoDomini> | I see. |
| 12:01 | <@TheWatcher> | (not serious, but I have crashed a couple of laptops doing it) |
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| 12:03 | | Attilla [Obsolete@Nightstar-8e1acbff.as43234.net] has joined #code |
| 12:12 | < AnnoDomini> | Hmm. If I take out the battery out of a Dell Inspiron 1525 when it is plugged into the grid and operating, will its power fail? |
| 12:20 | <@Tamber> | Shouldn't. But then, it *is* a Dell, so it could do anything from "work perfectly" to "explode and destroy all you hold dear"! |
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| 12:44 | | * Alek misses Warlord. Atari 4-player breakout. :P |
| 12:46 | <@TheWatcher> | Argh, goddamned language clashes. |
| 12:46 | | * TheWatcher removes the leading $ from variables in this javascript |
| 12:49 | | Nemu [NeophoxProd@Nightstar-d60f94b0.asahi-net.or.jp] has joined #code |
| 12:59 | | * gnolaptop points and laughs at TheWatcher. |
| 12:59 | < gnolaptop> | (But see also: semicolons.) |
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| 14:46 | | * TheWatcher flails at circular reference problems |
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| 15:33 | | * TheWatcher facepalms, realises that he'd already built-in a circular reference cleanup system, he just needed to set up this module to use it |
| 15:46 | < iospace> | :P |
| 16:20 | | You're now known as TheWatcher[afk] |
| 16:59 | | * Vornotron fiddles with No Ordinary Headache. |
| 16:59 | < Vornotron> | ...826, djord. Really. |
| 17:00 | < AnnoDomini> | Is it bad that aptitude reports: "Current status: 0 broken [-1]."? |
| 17:01 | < Vornotron> | pffff |
| 17:02 | < AnnoDomini> | I think it's been that way for a while. |
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| 18:46 | < Namegduf> | AnnoDomini: I don't know what your complaint is, it's clearly so resilent that it's got -1 broken packages. |
| 18:49 | < AnnoDomini> | I have no complaint. Things are working fine. I just want to know what that -1 is doing there. :p |
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| 20:11 | | * AnnoDomini hugs Gramps. |
| 20:11 | < AnnoDomini> | It is a nice program. |
| 20:12 | <@Tamber> | It just smells a littly funny, and constantly tries to feed you Werthers Originals? |
| 20:14 | < AnnoDomini> | Something like that. :P |
| 20:14 | | * AnnoDomini likes Werthers Originals. |
| 20:15 | <@Tamber> | :) |
| 20:16 | < McMartin_> | Man, this code. -_- |
| 20:18 | <~Vornicus> | how -_- is it. |
| 20:18 | < McMartin_> | This remains to be determined. |
| 20:19 | < McMartin_> | I'm trying to track where user-supplied information is coming from when the core uses it |
| 20:19 | < McMartin_> | Whoever wrote this was Very Enterprisey Indeed. |
| 20:19 | < McMartin_> | I'm still drilling through wrappers. |
| 20:23 | < McMartin_> | OK. |
| 20:24 | < McMartin_> | I count four levels of object containment here. |
| 20:52 | <&jerith> | McMartin_: You are enthwipped. |
| 21:05 | | * Vornicus thinks "ent-whipped"? |
| 21:09 | <&jerith> | That tail is called a "thwip". |
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| 21:57 | < AnnoDomini> | Why does my can of compressed air get cold when I use it? |
| 21:57 | < AnnoDomini> | I think the answer is PHYSICS but why exactly? |
| 21:58 | < Namegduf> | When something pressurised ceases to be pressurised it gets colder. |
| 21:58 | < Namegduf> | I don't know more detail than that. |
| 22:02 | < ToxicFrog> | "combined gas law" may be a useful search key here. |
| 22:03 | < AnnoDomini> | Hmm. I know that the reverse is true: if something is pressed, it gets hotter. I guess the reverse is also true. |
| 22:03 | < AnnoDomini> | +grammatical sense |
| 22:04 | <~Vornicus> | For compressed air it goes something like this: you have a thing that reduces the amount of gas in the can, but the can's volume doesn't change, and the pressure also doesn't change enough to offset the loss of mass. |
| 22:04 | <~Vornicus> | ...did I get my signs confused again? |
| 22:05 | < ToxicFrog> | Mass is irrelevant here, I think - just volume, pressure, and temperature. |
| 22:05 | <~Vornicus> | It's also "amount of gas" |
| 22:06 | < ToxicFrog> | pV/T is constant; V has remained the same, and p has decreased, so T must also decrease. |
| 22:06 | <~Vornicus> | PV = nRT, pressure * volume = moles of gas (mass equivalent) * ideal gas constant * temperature. |
| 22:06 | < ToxicFrog> | (more generally, yes, compressing something heats it up and decompressing it cools it down) |
| 22:07 | <~Vornicus> | The amount of gas in the can isn't contant. |
| 22:07 | <~Vornicus> | --wait, compressed air actually has a different reason, |
| 22:08 | <~Vornicus> | Inside the canned air is actually a thing that's /liquid/ at the pressures involved. |
| 22:08 | <~Vornicus> | liquid -> gas requires the use of energy, so the reaction is endothermic. |
| 22:11 | < ToxicFrog> | Oh seriously? I did not know that. |
| 22:11 | < ToxicFrog> | That it was liquid in the can, I mean. |
| 22:12 | <~Vornicus> | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gas_duster |
| 22:12 | <~Vornicus> | This is why you have to use it upright. It spits otherwise. |
| 22:24 | < celticminstrel> | I see I disconnected while I was away. |
| 22:24 | | Kindamoody is now known as Kindamoody[zZz] |
| 23:33 | < Rhamphoryncus> | I thought it was something like temperature being proportionate to pressure and thus to volume |
| 23:38 | < Rhamphoryncus> | Although.. naively, temperature would influence pressure but not the other way around (an individual molecule would have the same energy whether it's bouncing back and forth or going in a straight line), so obviously the mechanism isn't that simple |
| 23:41 | < Rhamphoryncus> | Physics is hilarious: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Temperature#Negative_temperature |
| 23:43 | <&McMartin> | "As the energy of the system increases in the population inversion, a system with a negative temperature is not colder than absolute zero, but rather it has a higher energy than at positive temperature, and may be said to be in fact hotter at negative temperatures." |
| 23:51 | | Vash [Vash@Nightstar-e8057de2.wlfrct.sbcglobal.net] has joined #code |
| 23:51 | | mode/#code [+o Vash] by ChanServ |
| 23:53 | < Rhamphoryncus> | McMartin: yeah, I read that as "the definition of temperature breaks in a rather spectacular fashion" |
| 23:55 | <&McMartin> | Thanks to the list below it and wikiwalking I have also learned the word "fulminologist" |
| 23:55 | <&McMartin> | A scientist that studies lightning. |
| 23:56 | <&McMartin> | Definitely the word of the day. |
| 23:58 | < Rhamphoryncus> | And unlike the crap that shows up in crossword puzzles and word searches it's actually a real word getting real usage! |
| 23:58 | | You're now known as TheWatcher[T-2] |
| 23:59 | < Tarinaky> | TIL: A Thermonuclear Explosion is hotter than the core of the sun. |
| 23:59 | <&McMartin> | This also implies that when you "fulminate" about something that annoys you, you really are metaphorically shooting lightning bolts out your ears |
| --- Log closed Fri Aug 31 00:00:30 2012 |