| --- Log opened Tue Jul 03 00:00:47 2012 |
| 00:03 | | You're now known as TheWatcher[T-2] |
| 00:04 | < Rhamphoryncus> | gnolam: yeah, sounds weird :( |
| 00:05 | < gnolam> | How... and why? |
| 00:05 | < Rhamphoryncus> | It's effectively mipmapping of a much larger heightmap |
| 00:06 | < Rhamphoryncus> | (much much much larger) |
| 00:06 | < Rhamphoryncus> | Tessellation is a natural way to smoothly transition between detail levels |
| 00:08 | < Rhamphoryncus> | But of the vertices shift and I'm not using interpolation then they'll be jumping |
| 00:09 | | Attilla [Obsolete@Nightstar-8afef565.as43234.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 121 seconds] |
| 00:09 | < Rhamphoryncus> | hmm maybe I can cheat with the alignment |
| 00:09 | | You're now known as TheWatcher[zZzZ] |
| 00:12 | < Rhamphoryncus> | The how isn't hard. With an ordinary texture it'd be just an ordinary texture lookup. It's only virtual texturing that makes it hard |
| 00:19 | < Rhamphoryncus> | Maybe I should (again) look at using my own tessellation rather than what opengl provides |
| 00:20 | | io|GONE is now known as iospace |
| 00:23 | < Rhamphoryncus> | yeah, opengl could always introduce vertices at one spot and walk them out from it. I'd rather something more stable |
| 00:24 | < Rhamphoryncus> | So.. I could always quadruple the number of vertices (double of each axis) and shift them to the new positions. That'd just be interpolation between mipmap levels |
| 00:26 | < Rhamphoryncus> | Oh, keep them at their x/y, but shift their z between the two adjacent vertices (or 4) and what their own mipmap level shows |
| 00:38 | | Derakon[AFK] is now known as Derakon |
| 01:08 | < Rhamphoryncus> | yay obtuse specs. "Some texture functions (non-"Lod" and non-"Grad" versions) may require implicit derivatives. Implicit derivatives are undefined within non-uniform control flow and for non-fragment-shader texture fetches." |
| 01:10 | | * gnolam sends in his "pls buy" list. |
| 01:11 | | * Rhamphoryncus adds some undefined implicit derivatives to gnolam's pls buy list |
| 01:13 | | * Vornicus pokes vaguely at his code |
| 01:15 | < Rhamphoryncus> | "Because of this, the texture functions have slightly different behavior in non-fragment shader stages. ..... is undefined. " WTF opengl?! |
| 01:17 | < Rhamphoryncus> | I should use '"slightly ... undefined" -- OpenGL Specs' as my quit message :P |
| 01:22 | < Rhamphoryncus> | oh oops, that's the wiki I'm quoting |
| 01:22 | < Rhamphoryncus> | my bad. |
| 01:33 | < Rhamphoryncus> | ergh, the "may" is critical there |
| 01:52 | < Rhamphoryncus> | try to refocus my thoughts x_x |
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| 01:55 | < Rhamphoryncus> | ... heh, it'd always be a sample between two adjacent vertices. The 4 case doesn't exist because what I'm subdividing is a square chopped into two triangles. The center point (with 4 surrounding points) is edge of those triangles, which of course only goes between 2 points |
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| 03:17 | | Kindamoody[zZz] is now known as Kindamoody |
| 03:36 | | Kindamoody is now known as Kindamoody|DVD |
| 04:11 | | * Vornicus pokes more vaguely at code. |
| 04:24 | <~Vornicus> | SOmething is causing it to bounce around like crazy when it hits corners in the negative direction. |
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| 04:31 | | iospace is now known as iospacedout |
| 04:51 | | * Derakon receives an email from someone who stumbled across the Jetblade project page, sadly must inform them that it's on indefinite hiatus. |
| 05:09 | <~Vornicus> | I wish I had proper console output, it'd help so much |
| 05:10 | <&Derakon> | What's wrong with print statements? |
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| 05:15 | <~Vornicus> | game maker doesn't have them |
| 05:18 | | Kindamoody|DVD is now known as Kindamoody |
| 05:18 | <&Derakon> | That seems a gross oversight. |
| 05:18 | <&Derakon> | Rig up a "print text to the screen" function? |
| 05:19 | <~Vornicus> | it's got all sorts of stuff like that |
| 05:19 | <~Vornicus> | but what I want happens in less than a frame |
| 05:19 | <&Derakon> | If you know precisely which frame, you could print only for that frame and then maintain it onscreen. |
| 05:21 | <~Vornicus> | Actually I'm not entirely sure /where/ it's happening, which is kind of why I want a firehose |
| 05:21 | <&Derakon> | Ahh, yes. |
| 05:21 | <&Derakon> | I'm out of ideas, sadly. |
| 05:23 | | Kindamoody is now known as Kindamoody|out |
| 05:23 | <~Vornicus> | so right now my watch expression list is like 20 things long and I'm not learning anything |
| 05:35 | <~Vornicus> | idunno, there's some shenanigans going on |
| 05:38 | <~Vornicus> | when I hit a path going westbound (and thus have a negative path speed), I get a single frame with the gondola at the west end, and then for the rest of the path it appears at the path's length east of where it should be. |
| 05:40 | <~Vornicus> | so if I want the gondola to travel between 200 and 100, it will flash at 100, and then travel from 300 to 200. |
| 05:42 | <&Derakon> | Sign flip on velocity or position or something? |
| 05:44 | <~Vornicus> | Not entirely sure |
| 05:54 | <~Vornicus> | oh, i do get file writes. That helps. |
| 05:56 | <&Derakon> | Ah, in that case, there's your firehose. |
| 05:56 | <~Vornicus> | Yes indeed. |
| 06:12 | | * Vornicus builds himself a firehose. |
| 06:13 | <~Vornicus> | THis system is not at all designed for decent string handling |
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| 06:34 | | * Vornicus thinks he needs to add more firehose, because something's gone completely wackadoo here |
| 06:36 | <~Vornicus> | What the firehose, man, this confuses the shit out of me |
| 06:37 | <&Derakon> | Hee. |
| 06:40 | <~Vornicus> | OKay, so end of path fires on negative velocity and appears to set itself up correctly with path_position 1, but then the next frame says that it should be at path_position 0, and then resets path_position to almost 1 (technically it's 1 - move_speed / length of the path), and gets the actual gondola's position at what would be almost path_position 2 |
| 06:41 | <&McMartin> | There's a debug string print function |
| 06:41 | <~Vornicus> | McM: I need the firehose into a console or file, because I need to examine the entrails - whatever's happening is happening too fast for me to actually read. |
| 06:42 | <&McMartin> | Ah |
| 06:42 | <&McMartin> | I thought the console window had permascroll, my bad >_> |
| 06:42 | <~Vornicus> | what console window. |
| 06:43 | <&McMartin> | There should be a console window in the IDE when you say "run in debug mode" |
| 06:43 | <~Vornicus> | I have a watch window, but I don't see a console. |
| 06:43 | <&Derakon> | I don't suppose path_position is unsigned? |
| 06:43 | <&McMartin> | path-position is, IIRC, a float with range [0, 1] |
| 06:43 | <&Derakon> | Ahh, it's a Game Maker builtin. |
| 06:43 | <&McMartin> | Meanwhile, path_speed is in pixels per frame, not change-in-path-position-per-frame. |
| 06:44 | <&Derakon> | Hooray! |
| 06:44 | <&McMartin> | These are technically both the right thing, but it's warty |
| 06:44 | <~Vornicus> | This is /good/ though because if it were the latter you'd have to tune path_speed according to the length of the path~ |
| 06:45 | <&McMartin> | And if you instead changed path-position to be in pixels, "go to end of path" would need to be tuned, etc. |
| 06:46 | <~Vornicus> | I don't know, something's all befuddly here. |
| 06:46 | <~Vornicus> | It's like start_path is having farther reaching effects than it should when I use a negative path_speed (which should follow the path backwards) |
| 06:47 | <&McMartin> | Hmm. There's an extra argument to start_path for "automatically do this when you hit a path boundary", right? |
| 06:47 | | Derakon is now known as Derakon[AFK] |
| 06:48 | <~Vornicus> | RIght. Doing things other than "stop" seem to be worse than that |
| 06:49 | <~Vornicus> | The alternatives are "continue from start", "continue from here", and "reverse" |
| 06:49 | <~Vornicus> | And I have to manually override them in any case because none of them are right. |
| 06:50 | <~Vornicus> | gnn. |
| 06:51 | <~Vornicus> | Oh, that would be shitty wouldn't it |
| 06:53 | | * Vornicus comes up with crazygonuts consequence of how this is put together: what if the actions triggered by the automatic end of path happen /after/ the end of path event fires. |
| 06:54 | <~Vornicus> | That would at least explain /some/ things, but the spread of crazy activities over the two frames after the end of path event fires aren't yet fully explained |
| 07:00 | <~Vornicus> | It feels all race-conditiony and that is not a nice feeling. |
| 07:01 | <&McMartin> | It's ugly but it's not racy, or shouldn't be |
| 07:01 | <&McMartin> | AFAIK the game engine is entirely single-threaded. |
| 07:06 | <~Vornicus> | RIght, but check out the sequence of events I've got so far: 1. the path ends. 2. the End of Path event runs, setting a new path. 3. A frame renders with the gondola at the 0 of the new path 3. the automated path_end event runs, doing corrections on the xy values to account for possible parametric overrun, placing the gondola at the 0 of the original path. 4. the path calculator runs, resetting |
| 07:06 | <~Vornicus> | the path_position to 1 (because we've got a negative path_speed, it should have started at 1 in the first place) and then subtracting the appropriate amount from path_position according to the path_speed. 5. the new xy is calculated /relative/ to the xy from 3, despite my setting the path follow to absolute. 6. the remaining frames render accordingly. |
| 07:06 | <~Vornicus> | And that cut off. |
| 07:08 | <~Vornicus> | But I'm not sure where. |
| 07:09 | <~Vornicus> | So I'm getting race-condition like problems |
| 07:10 | <&McMartin> | It two-lined. |
| 07:16 | <~Vornicus> | The only time it acts /right/ is when 1. path_speed is positive and 2. the second path stars where the first ends. |
| 07:24 | | * Vornicus should build a minimal game that demonstrates all the ways this goes bad. |
| 07:30 | <~Vornicus> | but first, I should Go The Fuck To Sleep |
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| 14:49 | <~Vornicus> | Oh. It's not actually as bad as it looks. |
| 14:50 | <~Vornicus> | I think. Maybe. |
| 14:57 | <~Vornicus> | nnnh, still a whole lot of flicker |
| 15:01 | | You're now known as TheWatcher[afk] |
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| 15:28 | < Tarinaky> | I'm having trouble trying to set up a second monitor on Windows XP. |
| 15:28 | < froztbyte> | don't bother |
| 15:28 | < froztbyte> | upgrade to a supported OS :) |
| 15:28 | < Tarinaky> | The guide says that on the settings tab of the Display applet there should be something labled 'Identify'. |
| 15:28 | < Tarinaky> | Which there isn't. |
| 15:28 | < froztbyte> | that only helps if the system picks up both heads |
| 15:29 | < froztbyte> | and that depends on the graphics card drivers |
| 15:29 | < froztbyte> | doing their thing correctly |
| 15:29 | < froztbyte> | which I don't think people test much anymore |
| 15:29 | < froztbyte> | why are you still using XP? |
| 15:29 | < Tarinaky> | Because I don't have Windows 7 installed. |
| 15:31 | < froztbyte> | upgrade tiems |
| 15:32 | < Tarinaky> | I don't have anywhere offline to store all my crap while it formats the disk. |
| 15:32 | < Tarinaky> | Also, reinstalling all my programs is impossible on this connection. |
| 15:32 | < gnolam> | XP EOL isn't until 2014. |
| 15:33 | | * Tarinaky doesn't really understand all the hate for Windows XP. |
| 15:33 | < Tarinaky> | It's a perfectly serviceable OS with much lower system reqs than 7. |
| 15:33 | < froztbyte> | you don't need to format anything |
| 15:33 | < Tarinaky> | Microsoft say otherwise. |
| 15:33 | < froztbyte> | there's a supported upgrade procedure |
| 15:34 | < froztbyte> | using an upgrade edition |
| 15:34 | < Tarinaky> | That doesn't support XP. |
| 15:34 | < froztbyte> | formally? |
| 15:34 | < Tarinaky> | I also don't have the money to buy an upgrade edition. |
| 15:34 | < Tarinaky> | If I did I'd spend that money upgrading my backup harddrive so that I could actually make backups. |
| 15:35 | < Tarinaky> | Instead of playing the "WHich files do I least want to lose?" game. |
| 15:35 | < froztbyte> | haha |
| 15:35 | < froztbyte> | true, true |
| 15:35 | | Kindamoody is now known as Kindamoody|out |
| 15:36 | < froztbyte> | anyway, I just don't see the need for XP anymore...this infinite backwards compatibility thing just adds pain to life |
| 15:36 | < Tarinaky> | It's not infinite backwards compat though. |
| 15:36 | < Tarinaky> | It was the last good version of Windows. |
| 15:36 | < froztbyte> | I'm certainly not going to agree with you on that point. |
| 15:37 | < froztbyte> | windows is windows, and as such, fairly shit |
| 15:37 | < Tarinaky> | Infinite backwards compat would be 2k and 98. |
| 15:37 | < froztbyte> | but 7 is certainly usable and good, within that scope |
| 15:37 | < Tarinaky> | XP is certainly useable and good within that scope. |
| 15:37 | | * Vornicus hasn't yet been able to upgrade to win7 |
| 15:37 | < Tarinaky> | My point is that Vista was not. |
| 15:37 | < froztbyte> | Tarinaky: yeah, there's still backwards-capable API stuff for those in Win7 |
| 15:37 | < Tarinaky> | Which leaves XP as the 'last good' (within that scope) version. |
| 15:38 | < Tarinaky> | So it's not infinite backwards compat. |
| 15:38 | < froztbyte> | you're judging this wrong |
| 15:38 | < froztbyte> | if you're going to be building your point around software built for 98 and 2k, we should all be writing code for POS interfaces and printing with serial lineprinters |
| 15:39 | < froztbyte> | fact: win7 still has API capability stretching back to 9x and earlier |
| 15:39 | < Tarinaky> | I'm not talking about the API though. |
| 15:39 | < froztbyte> | (depending which nooks you look at) |
| 15:39 | < Tarinaky> | I'm talking about people making a fuss that someone dare not upgrade to 7. |
| 15:39 | < froztbyte> | that's not what I'm talking about now |
| 15:40 | < Tarinaky> | Well it's what I'm talking about. |
| 15:40 | < froztbyte> | <froztbyte> anyway, I just don't see the need for XP anymore...this infinite backwards compatibility thing just adds pain to life |
| 15:40 | < Tarinaky> | Have been talking about. |
| 15:40 | < Tarinaky> | And will continue to talk about. |
| 15:40 | < froztbyte> | which, as far as I know, microsoft has went with for win8 as well |
| 15:40 | < froztbyte> | they've started dropping back-compat in win8 |
| 15:40 | < Tarinaky> | Win8 looks terribad. |
| 15:40 | < froztbyte> | metro appears to be built around touch interfaces, yeah |
| 15:40 | < froztbyte> | I haven't tested it out yet |
| 15:41 | < Tarinaky> | And they got rid of the startmenu... |
| 15:41 | < froztbyte> | ...so? |
| 15:41 | < Tarinaky> | Windows 7 had just made them awesome. |
| 15:41 | < Tarinaky> | And then they go and remove it? |
| 15:41 | < froztbyte> | I'd be willing to guess it's not removed, so much as reimplemented elsewhere in the scheme of things |
| 15:41 | <~Vornicus> | the start menu has been replaced with the entire desktop, basically |
| 15:42 | < froztbyte> | but, like I say, I haven't tried out the latest tech demos yet |
| 15:42 | <~Vornicus> | from what i can tell |
| 15:42 | < froztbyte> | I probably could, the image is here in the office somewhere |
| 15:49 | < ShellNinja> | http://www.neatorama.com/2012/06/14/internet-explorer-7-tax/ |
| 15:56 | < Tarinaky> | Idly. |
| 15:56 | < Tarinaky> | Does Windows 7 support having a second monitor at a different resolution? |
| 15:56 | < Tarinaky> | As like a second desktop. |
| 15:56 | < Tarinaky> | Rather than spanning one desktop across both? |
| 15:59 | < Tarinaky> | I ask because otherwise there's not much point keeping this second monitor around. |
| 16:04 | < gnolam> | How do you mean? |
| 16:05 | < froztbyte> | Tarinaky: it does |
| 16:05 | < froztbyte> | gnolam: monitor 1 at 1920x1080, monitor 2 at 1024x768 |
| 16:05 | < froztbyte> | or somesuch |
| 16:05 | < froztbyte> | I often have to do that for the TV in the boardroom from my laptop |
| 16:06 | < gnolam> | Why... wouldn't it? |
| 16:06 | < froztbyte> | although I should note that's also a driverflavour thing |
| 16:06 | < froztbyte> | gnolam: because people fail at writing drivers :) |
| 16:06 | < gnolam> | I mean, that's been a feature of every multi-monitor OS /ever/? |
| 16:16 | < Tarinaky> | I can't get Windows XP to do it. |
| 16:16 | < Tarinaky> | It'll only have both monitors at the same aspect resolution with one as left or top and the other as right or bottom. |
| 16:16 | < Tarinaky> | Which is completely piging useless as one monitor is widescreen and the other isn't. |
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| 16:21 | | * iospace is looking at PCD diagrams and schematics! |
| 16:21 | < iospace> | FINALLY A SLIGHT CHANGE OF PACE |
| 16:23 | < iospace> | *PCB |
| 16:44 | <~Vornicus> | hooray pcb schematics |
| 16:44 | < iospace> | Vornicus: they're two seperate thigns |
| 16:45 | <~Vornicus> | well fine, but |
| 16:45 | < iospace> | :P |
| 16:58 | <@ToxicFrog> | death to pcb schematics |
| 17:03 | | ShellNinja is now known as Crickets |
| 17:20 | | EvilDarkLord is now known as Maze |
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| 18:30 | < gnolam> | http://i.imgur.com/Wx91Z.jpg |
| 18:32 | < iospace> | ... ok wordpress i can understand |
| 18:32 | < iospace> | the others... what? |
| 18:41 | < gnolam> | Yes. |
| 18:41 | < gnolam> | Not only is there a "Spotify for Dummies", but it's all classed as "Computer Science". |
| 18:41 | | * iospace head desks |
| 18:45 | | * Tarinaky hmmms. |
| 18:49 | < Tarinaky> | Investing, Personal Finance, Entrepenership? |
| 18:49 | < Tarinaky> | Is this a book store dedicated to bollocks? |
| 18:49 | < Tarinaky> | +Real Estate |
| 18:50 | < Tarinaky> | "I had a dream of openning a book store that only sold self-help and crappy 'Learn arsewiping for morons in 27.5 hours' books." |
| 18:51 | < Tarinaky> | "We can have a secondary line in crystals and aura readings." |
| 19:01 | < gnolam> | :) |
| 19:03 | | cpux [cpux@Nightstar-c5874a39.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #code |
| 19:03 | < Tarinaky> | Learn Arsewiping in 27.5 hours using our handy format of 42 39 minute long exercises! |
| 19:03 | < Tarinaky> | (Three exercises being given over entirely to the subject of locating one's arse.) |
| 19:04 | < Tarinaky> | The enclosed CD/website includes a high-resolution map. |
| 19:05 | | Crickets is now known as ShellNinja |
| 19:05 | < Tarinaky> | And the first handy hint reads: "Top Tip! You'll have an easier time using both hands!" |
| 19:05 | | * Tarinaky decides to stop flogging this joke now >.> |
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| 21:17 | | Maze is now known as EvilDarkLord |
| 21:42 | | * ToxicFrog looks at Moai, determines it unsuitable for Warpcore |
| 21:50 | | * ToxicFrog pokes IMAP5 interrupt handling with a stick |
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| 22:35 | < gnolam> | Parts are being ordered. Eeeeexcellent. |
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| 22:40 | | mode/#code [+ao Derakon Derakon] by ChanServ |
| 22:42 | | * ToxicFrog stabs Quassel |
| 22:42 | <@ToxicFrog> | Why do none of these client/server IRC clients support DCC? |
| 22:44 | <&McMartin> | Maybe they don't want to try to decide whether the client or the server is the "client" in "Direct Client to Client" |
| 22:45 | | * Tarinaky really wishes he'd done a proper design for his game now -.- |
| 22:45 | | * Tarinaky sighs loudly. |
| 22:46 | <@ToxicFrog> | McMartin: so pick one. Or make it an option. |
| 22:46 | <&McMartin> | I didn't say it was a *good* reason~ |
| 22:46 | <@ToxicFrog> | I mean, some BNCs support DCC just fine (the answer is "the client", which is not actually the answer I want) |
| 22:47 | < gnolam> | AHEGAOEIHGOALEIHGN |
| 22:47 | <@ToxicFrog> | Tarinaky: that sounds familiar~ |
| 22:47 | < Tarinaky> | Well, I figured I always spend too long planning and never finish. |
| 22:47 | < Tarinaky> | So I figured I'd just try to get it made, badly. |
| 22:48 | < Tarinaky> | Obviously the end product is coming out poor. |
| 22:48 | | Rhamphoryncus [rhamph@Nightstar-5697f7e2.abhsia.telus.net] has joined #code |
| 22:57 | | iospace is now known as io|gone |
| 23:11 | | Ariii [Ariii@Nightstar-f695463f.cicril.sbcglobal.net] has joined #code |
| 23:32 | <~Vornicus> | I read that as "omegaglobahedron" for some reason |
| 23:34 | <~Vornicus> | (gnolam's yelling at clouds, that is) |
| 23:34 | < Tarinaky> | Trying to rewrite the game later so that clients only receive the information needed to fill out a turn report (and not enemy positions they don't know about) will be... difficult. |
| 23:34 | <~Vornicus> | TF: for the record I haven't successfully done a DCC transfer on semi-standard clients in ages. |
| 23:34 | < gnolam> | That was just me going into apoplexy over how shitty search engines are today. |
| 23:35 | < Tarinaky> | Although I suppose not impossible. |
| 23:35 | < gnolam> | But hey, maybe I have a career as an oracle ahead of me. |
| 23:35 | < Tarinaky> | Incidentally, what's Python's support for TCP like? |
| 23:37 | <~Vornicus> | Awesome. |
| 23:37 | <~Vornicus> | Open a socket? It does absolutely everything a file stream does. |
| 23:37 | < Tarinaky> | Inb4 someone complains that I'm using TCP and not UDP :p |
| 23:37 | <~Vornicus> | Tarinaky: turn based games are perfectly fine for tcp |
| 23:37 | < Tarinaky> | Yeah. |
| 23:38 | < Tarinaky> | That's what I figured. |
| 23:38 | <~Vornicus> | UDP is for when you have stuff where you don't have time to do anything but Just Push Data |
| 23:38 | <~Vornicus> | And even then, TCP is often fast enough anyway~ |
| 23:39 | < Tarinaky> | A few days ago I came up for a t-shirt slogan: "Drop bombs, not packets." |
| 23:39 | < Tarinaky> | I'm not sure how witty it is >.> |
| 23:39 | <~Vornicus> | not very |
| 23:39 | < Tarinaky> | Fair enough then. |
| 23:40 | <~Vornicus> | or, really, at all |
| 23:41 | <@ToxicFrog> | Vornicus: DCC requires the sender to have the DCC port open incoming. Anyone behind a NAT (which is nearly everyone these days) probably doesn't unless they've specifically configured both NAT and IRC client for it. |
| 23:41 | <@ToxicFrog> | That said, I use DCC a lot. |
| 23:41 | < celticminstrel> | NAT? |
| 23:41 | <~Vornicus> | Network Address Translation |
| 23:42 | < celticminstrel> | Oh hey, I can google right from my IRC client. |
| 23:53 | | Derakon [Derakon@Nightstar-a3b183ae.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 121 seconds] |
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| 23:53 | | mode/#code [+ao Derakon Derakon] by ChanServ |
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| 23:58 | | mode/#code [+o himi] by ChanServ |
| --- Log closed Wed Jul 04 00:00:02 2012 |