--- Log opened Fri Apr 27 00:00:26 2012 |
00:08 | < Alek> | actually, aren't things opposites if they're opposite in all respects except for one crucial detail? |
00:08 | < Alek> | as in, type? |
00:09 | < Alek> | actually, never mind. that's another definition of opposite, and there's more. |
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01:10 | <&McMartin> | Ha ha ha |
01:10 | <&McMartin> | "Now I know why people pronounce 'SQL' 'sequel': because sequels usually suck." |
01:13 | <&jerith> | I do it because it's a syllable shorter than "ess cue hell". |
01:14 | < Tarinaky> | I say Ess Cue Ell because it makes some people angry. |
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01:51 | < celticminstrel> | I pronounce it by letters because my first exposure to the word was in text form. |
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02:19 | < Namegduf> | I do the same as celticminstrel by default, but I am unsure whether I ought to start catching myself |
02:20 | | * Vornicus pokes vaguely at his camera control. |
02:20 | <~Vornicus> | I have no idea at all how to design this |
02:46 | <~Vornicus> | Okay. Camera cares what room it's looking at |
02:47 | <~Vornicus> | Room has all its entities contained therein. |
02:52 | <~Vornicus> | Camera's gotta be a singleto--not if I want to do transitions other than quick cut or blackout |
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03:33 | <&Derakon> | What's giving you trouble, Vorn? |
03:33 | <&Derakon> | Pass the camera instance to your render code. |
03:38 | <~Vornicus> | That right there. Man I feel like a derpcannon |
03:38 | <&Derakon> | Heh. |
03:38 | <&Derakon> | Happens to the best of us. |
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04:48 | | * Rhamphoryncus picks a code name for his openttd clone: yasttc. Can anybody guess what it stands for? :) |
04:53 | <~Vornicus> | Stupid? |
04:53 | <~Vornicus> | well. Yet Another Stupid Transport Tycoon Clone |
04:54 | <~Vornicus> | but I figured all those other letters were too obvious to bother answering the question for. |
05:06 | | Kindamoody is now known as Kindamoody|out |
05:20 | < Rhamphoryncus> | yup |
05:22 | < Rhamphoryncus> | I'm thinking I'll start by seeing how badly I kill the performance by having as much detail as I want |
05:29 | <~Vornicus> | Don't forget your spline-smoothed terrain |
05:49 | < Rhamphoryncus> | hmm. Up close perhaps |
05:51 | < Rhamphoryncus> | I was considering storing different strata to use when tunnelling andmining |
05:52 | < Rhamphoryncus> | Which, for a 8192x8192x8192 map would mean.. half a trillion points |
05:56 | < Rhamphoryncus> | Hrm. Actually, that just underscores the importance of using the disk to store most of the map data. A couple gigs of ram is about the sane limit, but disk is much more open ended. It's fine to start out with a 20 meg map that balloons to 500 megs on disk after tons of play |
05:56 | | * Rhamphoryncus suddenly worries he's going to recreate minecraft |
05:56 | < Noah> | You're recreating minecraft |
05:56 | < Rhamphoryncus> | I've thought about LoD for a minecraft clone too |
05:57 | < Noah> | Also, be sure it reads and writes at the same time while rendering that way it's nice a choppy |
05:57 | < Rhamphoryncus> | heh |
05:57 | < Rhamphoryncus> | Yeah, there's Right Ways and Wrong Ways to handle that |
05:57 | < Noah> | I'm pretty sure Minecraft is doing the Very Wrong Way |
05:58 | < Rhamphoryncus> | Minecraft is.. well no, I was going to say the PHP way, but it's not *that* bad |
05:58 | < Noah> | But you thought it |
05:59 | < Rhamphoryncus> | There's a lot of fucked up stuff but there's a lot they do right too |
05:59 | < Noah> | I mean, there was a post on Notch's blog about he wasn't that great of a programmer and I -swear- I heard my harddrive screech "duh" |
05:59 | < Rhamphoryncus> | Some of the ugliest aspects, ie the 16x16 textures, are intentional stylistic choices |
06:00 | < Rhamphoryncus> | heh yup, but he's not the only one working there |
06:00 | < Noah> | Well, now Jeb is lead programmer I believe |
06:00 | < Rhamphoryncus> | yeah |
06:00 | < Noah> | And Notch is the "my company made me this throne of money" guy |
06:00 | < Rhamphoryncus> | Notch's influence is being diluted as the team grows |
06:02 | < Noah> | Let's just hope he hasn't irrepairable hosed Minecraft for Jeb and the rest of the team |
06:02 | < Noah> | Well |
06:02 | < Noah> | It's in Java, so nevermind |
06:02 | <&McMartin> | I keep thinking Jeb, The Kerbal |
06:02 | <&McMartin> | Very, very strange mental images, that |
06:03 | < Noah> | No, Jeb the Not Notch. |
06:03 | < Rhamphoryncus> | okay, more realistic for a moment here. The strata doesn't have to move. Subsidence could, but that can be ignored. New land can be deposited as old is removed, but that's limited to only a few options, and even that I can ignore and only have one. Then there's the surface which needs different options (grass, and, rock, etc) |
06:04 | < Noah> | Is it too far in development to just have everything made of cheese? |
06:04 | < Rhamphoryncus> | Yeah, sorry, I've already committed to the non-cheese route |
06:05 | < Noah> | Or clay? A claymation minecraft would be sweet |
06:05 | < Rhamphoryncus> | heh |
06:05 | < Noah> | And probably too much for this laptop |
06:05 | < Rhamphoryncus> | So all I need to store is topsoil type and depth, fill type and depth, and.. well, strata is static so I don't need to store it at all |
06:06 | < Rhamphoryncus> | Probably should skip fill type, just to keep things sane |
06:07 | < Rhamphoryncus> | But the point is it's only 2d, not 3d |
06:07 | < Noah> | Oh, so you're making Terraria |
06:08 | < Rhamphoryncus> | No, an openttd clone |
06:08 | < Noah> | What's wrong with openttd? |
06:08 | < Rhamphoryncus> | .. have you seen ANY of my rants in here? What *isn't* wrong with openttd? |
06:08 | < Noah> | I usually tune you out, or go play openttd |
06:09 | < Rhamphoryncus> | heh |
06:09 | < Rhamphoryncus> | Anyway, big difference: I want the maps to be on a much bigger scale |
06:10 | < Noah> | Like, Spore big? |
06:10 | | * Vornicus gives Rhamphoryncus Iowa. |
06:10 | < Rhamphoryncus> | not quite heh |
06:10 | < Rhamphoryncus> | Just imagine that each openttd tile is broken down into 16x16 |
06:10 | <~Vornicus> | (where every overpass comes with a pond) |
06:10 | < Rhamphoryncus> | So you really do snake your rails through a mountain |
06:11 | < Rhamphoryncus> | I'm also starting out as 3d using opengl |
06:11 | < Noah> | Yea, now I just want to play openttd now |
06:11 | < Noah> | Rhamphoryncus: Great, now my laptop can't play it |
06:12 | < Noah> | OH |
06:12 | < Noah> | Make it ascii, like dwarffortress! |
06:12 | < Rhamphoryncus> | I do have some ideas for super-low-end sprite mode |
06:12 | <&McMartin> | DF is OpenGL. |
06:12 | < Rhamphoryncus> | No :P |
06:12 | < Noah> | McMartin: Shhh |
06:12 | | * Noah makes ASCII craft |
06:13 | < Noah> | ASCIICraft even |
06:14 | < Rhamphoryncus> | I'd still use opengl, but be a fixed dimetric with a limited number of rotations and superfluous animation disabled. The sprites would be created on the fly.. with a cache that's really a cache, unlike openttd |
06:15 | < Noah> | I had an idea for a game where instead of a procedurally generated world coming up around you, everything is a straight up void, and it's just you on this floating island. And you have to craft the shrines that form land around them, and it's part of the game mechanic to balance the biomes that one doesn't over take the other, flora and fauna included |
06:15 | < Tarinaky> | Ah crud. I've forgotten all the inequalities stuff for mathematical analysis :/ |
06:16 | < Noah> | perhaps played in a god-mode perspective, and then you bring humans into the mix and see if they can thrive in your environment |
06:16 | < Rhamphoryncus> | Openttd performance hint: Go into advanced/display/whatever and turn the max zoom in from 4x down to 2x or 1x. This limits the amount of scaled sprites it generates on load attempts to cram into the fixed-size "cache" |
06:16 | < Noah> | Yea, I turn that max zoom down for convience |
06:16 | < Noah> | convenience... |
06:17 | < Noah> | Blah, why can't minecraft have inline spelling suggestions |
06:17 | < Noah> | Minecraft? mIRC. |
06:17 | < Tarinaky> | What do I do with an inequality of the form |x||x+6|? |
06:17 | < Rhamphoryncus> | It's stupidly effective because the cache fills up before a sprite gets in there than that sprite won't be cached. Ever. Every rendering gets a new one scaled |
06:18 | <~Vornicus> | Tarinaky: is there supposed to be an inequality symbol between the two absolute values? |
06:18 | < Tarinaky> | Err |
06:18 | < Tarinaky> | What do I do with an inequality of the form |x||x+6|<3? |
06:18 | <~Vornicus> | Oh I see. |
06:19 | <~Vornicus> | Uh, what I usually do is do piecewise stuff. How's it act for x between -inf and -6? between -6 and 0? between 0 and inf? |
06:19 | < Noah> | This is why I hold on to all my math texts |
06:20 | < Noah> | Tarinaky: http://goo.gl/qjNku Does this help any? |
06:20 | <~Vornicus> | then handle those three situations separaetely |
06:20 | < Tarinaky> | Noah: Not really, it doesn't tell me how it got the answer. |
06:21 | < Noah> | I was hoping it could jar your memory, that's usually enough for me. Unfortunately, I haven't done too much inequality math |
06:21 | <~Vornicus> | Then you have a piecewise function |
06:21 | < Tarinaky> | Vornicus: I don't really see how that helps >.< |
06:21 | | * Tarinaky gaaahs at his inability. |
06:21 | <~Vornicus> | Okay okay, #math |
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09:48 | | You're now known as TheWatcher |
09:56 | <&McMartin> | Woo, conditionals and If statements seem to be working |
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09:58 | <@TheWatcher> | \o/ |
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09:59 | <&McMartin> | Once I get while and repeat loops working, it'll be time to move on to the next phase of actual code generation. |
09:59 | <&McMartin> | Well, the Quad-to-6502 code. |
10:00 | <&McMartin> | I'll need to actually design an ABI soon -_- |
10:10 | | * TheWatcher ponders |
10:13 | <@TheWatcher> | I can see why people like python, but looking at this code, the lack of braces still plays holy hell with my head :/ |
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11:26 | | * TheWatcher vaguely stabs the pyside developers |
11:27 | <@TheWatcher> | There are 2 or 3 different versions of each Qt installer for windows, it might be helpful if you either specify which one is needed, or that it doesn't matter, damnit. |
11:27 | < Tarinaky> | I used the latest version. |
11:28 | < Tarinaky> | So it probably doesn't matter. |
11:28 | <@TheWatcher> | Well |
11:28 | < Tarinaky> | It even worked! (eventually) |
11:29 | <@TheWatcher> | pyside tells you which /version/ of Qt you need (say PySide-1.1.0qt474.win32-py2.7.exe expects qt 4.7.4 ... but is that the mingw or VS2008 build?) |
11:30 | <@TheWatcher> | (and seriously, ffs this was all of "emerge -aD pyside" on my linux system. It should not involve this much arsing around) |
11:32 | < Tarinaky> | Don't the mingw and vs2008 builds support the same api? |
11:34 | <@TheWatcher> | API? Yes. but I don't know - because they haven't sodding documented it - if they are fully binary compatible with what pyside expects. |
11:35 | <@TheWatcher> | Theoretically, probably. But I long ago gave up assuming that anything "theoretially" will actually work on windows |
11:40 | < Tarinaky> | http://www.altdevblogaday.com/2012/04/26/functional-programming-in-c/ |
11:55 | <@TheWatcher> | ... and now I find that pyside actually includes the qt libs it needs. of course. |
11:55 | <@TheWatcher> | Document your fucking shit people |
12:03 | < Tarinaky> | myTurd:Shit |
12:04 | < Tarinaky> | getMyTurd():Shit, setMyTurd(Shit), isMyTurdSmelly():boolean... etc... |
12:19 | <@TheWatcher> | :P |
12:20 | <@TheWatcher> | I see no documentation |
12:20 | <@TheWatcher> | Damnit |
12:20 | <@TheWatcher> | ;) |
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14:34 | | * jerith stabs nosetests in ALL THE SOFT PLACES. |
14:34 | <&jerith> | You're a unit test runner. |
14:34 | <&jerith> | Your job is to find the test methods, run them, and tell me what the result was. |
14:35 | <&jerith> | Part of this requires you to tell me which test you're talking about. |
14:35 | <&jerith> | Now, tests have names. |
14:36 | <&jerith> | "foo.bar.test_baz.BazTestCase.test_widget_sprongling" is the name of one such test. |
14:37 | <&jerith> | I, being the kind of person who likes to explain what the test is actually testing, tend to write docstrings for my tests. |
14:37 | <&jerith> | For example, "A widget can be sprongled in any of the four cardinal directions." |
14:50 | <&jerith> | Oh, I wandered off mid-rant. |
14:51 | <&jerith> | Anyways, nosetests decides the first line of the docstring is a much better name for the test than the actual name. |
14:52 | <&jerith> | So when the test fails, it says "some random text about the test" failed, and doesn't give me any indication of where in my codebase the damned thing is. |
14:52 | <&jerith> | Requiring me to grep for it. |
14:52 | <&jerith> | And then there are the copy/paste tests. |
14:53 | <&jerith> | Or similar tests for different things. |
14:53 | <&jerith> | Which have indistinguishable first-line-of-docstrings, and therefore leave me guessing as to which one actually failed. |
14:55 | <@TheWatcher> | ... >.< |
14:55 | <@TheWatcher> | That's pretty shit |
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16:00 | <&jerith> | TheWatcher: It isn't /that/ bad, as long as all your tests pass. |
16:01 | <&jerith> | But I'm in the middle of a pretty substantial rewrite, which means most of my tests are failing. |
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18:52 | < Noah> | This diet 7up already tastes pretty lame, but with a BC power, I think it's going to put hairs on my chest. Like steelwool. |
19:07 | | * ShellNinja needs to make a shell script or something that randomly renames files within a directory to <somenumber>.mp3. How would I go about constructing it? |
19:10 | | Kindamoody is now known as Kindamoody[zZz] |
19:11 | < Noah> | Dunno as a shell script. |
19:14 | < Noah> | So I had an idea to make a python IRC bot that does Texas Hold'em |
19:14 | < Noah> | Then someone suggested Mahjong at another channel, and now I'm conflicted |
19:15 | < Noah> | ? |
19:15 | < Noah> | And that do |
19:15 | < Noah> | Don't work |
19:18 | < Noah> | So if I wanted to do tiles, everyone would have to use a font that had the unicode for them |
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19:42 | < Noah> | Thoughts on Google Drive? |
19:42 | <@Tamber> | "Meh" |
19:43 | <@Tamber> | More completely: "Meh, it's just dropbox with your favourite data-mining corp." |
19:43 | < Noah> | Because I've been using dropbox for so long, I already have more space than google drive |
19:44 | < Noah> | Of course, if I weren't mooching, then goole gives me 200GB vs 50GB* with dropbox |
19:45 | < Noah> | Although dropbox seems to increase what refers give you if you're paying, up to +32GB |
19:46 | < Noah> | Still, 82GB != 200GB last I checked |
19:46 | <&McMartin> | TheWatcher: Man, you have been in Perl too long >_> |
19:46 | <&McMartin> | C++ is by default not binary compatible even between different versions of the same compiler. |
19:47 | <&McMartin> | If py2exe is any indicator you will need the MSVS2008 binaries, since I notice that py2exe'd applications require that runtime. |
19:48 | <&McMartin> | (And yeah, Windows is pretty bad about this compared to a good Linux distro, but that's because there's no such thing as "a Windows Distro" in the sense of "we make sure all the important applications and libraries play well together" |
19:50 | < Noah> | Heh |
19:51 | | * Noah writes google to ask that 5GB of his email space be moved to his Drive |
19:54 | < Eri> | The gmail space is garbage, as a metric |
19:55 | < Eri> | It's the same way a bank has millions of dollars in it's possession |
19:55 | < Eri> | Only because not everyone is withdrawing it. If everyone with a gmail account were to max out their inbox, that number would drop |
19:55 | < Eri> | Essentially, stealing from Peter to pay Paul |
19:56 | < Noah> | Everyone won't |
19:56 | < Noah> | But I could |
19:56 | < Noah> | But not with 25MB emails |
19:58 | < Eri> | ...huh. That's weird. Signed in to gmail, and it stopped at the redirect and wanted me to open a binary |
19:58 | < Noah> | Huh |
20:03 | < Eri> | Hah, google support |
20:03 | < Eri> | "gmail prompts for a download, and I can't access my email" "Hi everyone, sorry for the frustration we may reach out to some of you by email to get some more detailed info" |
20:04 | < Noah> | Wtg google ninja |
20:08 | < Noah> | Heh, my dropbox takes like 2 days to sync over my cellphone for all the crap I have in it, Drive syncs in like 2 minutes since I have almost nothing in it |
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21:33 | < maoranma> | Woah, what's this, Skydrive gives me a free upgrade 25GB, and they have an app now? |
21:34 | | maoranma is now known as Noah |
21:35 | < Noah> | No android app, but I can live with that |
21:38 | < Noah> | Sweet, ITT uses Hotmail for the email, so I can use that now, and keep all my crap for school there |
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22:39 | | * TheWatcher eyes this css, has never seen this before |
22:40 | <@TheWatcher> | #idA .classA .classB > li > a { .... } |
22:40 | <~Vornicus> | hooray, selectors |
22:41 | <@TheWatcher> | Child selectors, apparently. Fair enough. |
22:41 | < Noah> | Witchcraft! |
22:42 | | * TheWatcher applies a 0x to Noah |
22:43 | < Noah> | Noooo, I'm base 16 now~ |
22:43 | <@TheWatcher> | Yes, I hexed you! |
22:44 | < Noah> | Now I'm 1A. I can't drink. |
22:46 | < Noah> | Unless it's heximal, then I'm 42 |
22:46 | <~Vornicus> | yeah, selectors have a lot of surprisingly powerful tools in them that most people don't use |
22:48 | <@TheWatcher> | S'good to know, could come in useful certainly. |
22:55 | < celticminstrel> | Heximal? |
22:57 | <@TheWatcher> | base 6 |
22:57 | <@TheWatcher> | (although I've usually heard it called Senary, but anyway) |
22:59 | <&McMartin> | (Hendenary for base 16~) |
23:34 | < Noah> | At least it's not all ones and zeros like in duoimal. |
--- Log closed Sat Apr 28 00:00:45 2012 |