| --- Log opened Wed Apr 25 00:00:47 2012 |
| 00:04 | < Noah> | Wow |
| 00:04 | < Noah> | Dexpot is actually a really really good virtual desktop manager for Windows 7 |
| 00:04 | < Noah> | And free! |
| 00:04 | <&McMartin> | Nice |
| 00:07 | < Noah> | It's highly intergrated with Windows 7's bar, highly configurable, even has a pager like in Linux that lets you even move windows to desktops with it |
| 00:27 | | Vornotron [vorn@ServerAdministrator.Nightstar.Net] has joined #code |
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| 00:28 | | Vornicus is now known as Vornucopia |
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| 00:33 | | You're now known as TheWatcher[T-2] |
| 00:37 | | You're now known as TheWatcher[zZzZ] |
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| 01:10 | < Noah> | Blah, so this dead HP laptop has an 80GB drive, shame I don't have two ports on this laptop to fit it. |
| 01:11 | < Noah> | But it has extra ram, so I'm gonna look at mine and see if it's compatible |
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| 01:27 | < Noah> | You know what they say, 3 gigs are better than 2. |
| 01:30 | < gnolam> | Unless the extra stick slows the others down. |
| 01:31 | <@ToxicFrog> | Depends on what your bottleneck is. |
| 01:31 | <@ToxicFrog> | I'd rather have 3GB operating at 533 than 2GB operating at 800 and going into swap all the time. |
| 01:37 | < Noah> | It is a little slower, PC2-4200 |
| 01:37 | < Noah> | Than the PC2-5300 |
| 01:37 | < Noah> | But I have the swap issue, A LOT |
| 01:40 | < Noah> | I'm probably gonna do a many cheap upgrades to this laptop before I look into another thinkpad. Gotta fix the finger scanner, then get another 2GB stick of 5300, upgrade this lousy hard drive, and probably put an actual DVD writer in it |
| 01:41 | < Noah> | And that's all I really CAN do to it |
| 01:41 | < Noah> | Already have the extended battery, sooo |
| 01:44 | <@ToxicFrog> | hi5, thinkpad buddy |
| 01:44 | < Noah> | ^5 |
| 01:45 | <&McMartin> | Any reason to not just use an external USB DVD writer? |
| 01:45 | < Noah> | Convenience |
| 01:49 | <@rms> | Netbook |
| 01:49 | <@rms> | Or Macbook Air |
| 01:59 | | Kindamoody[zZz] is now known as Kindamoody |
| 02:01 | < Noah> | Hmm, they make external usb bays for internal 2.5 drives, right? |
| 02:01 | < Noah> | Ideally that don't require external power |
| 02:02 | < Rhamphoryncus> | yes and maybe |
| 02:02 | < Rhamphoryncus> | They may require USB3 for power |
| 02:03 | < Noah> | Hrm |
| 02:07 | < Namegduf> | Yes, they do. |
| 02:07 | < Namegduf> | The ones I've owned all had two USB plugs on the PC end so they could draw more power. |
| 02:08 | < Namegduf> | You should be able to find them, even if USB3 ones are becoming more common now. |
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| 02:12 | <@rms> | Noah: I have a bunch that use USB2.0 that don't need external power. |
| 02:13 | <@rms> | Only the 3.5 enclosures seem to need external power :/ |
| 02:13 | <@rms> | Also the eStata ones need to use USB power for some reason. |
| 02:18 | < Noah> | http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=31952 33&Sku=M501-1031 |
| 02:18 | < Noah> | There's this one |
| 02:18 | < Noah> | It looks like it would fit this 80GB drive |
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| 03:05 | | * Silver_Adept waves. Anybody here have passing familiarity with a) the LibreOffice API and b) One of the languages that LibreOffice supports (Python, LOBasic, Java, and...one other.)? I've backed myself into a corner, I think. |
| 03:06 | | Kindamoody|afk is now known as Kindamoody |
| 03:06 | <~Vornucopia> | I didn't know you could script libreoffice |
| 03:06 | <@rms> | Nor did I |
| 03:06 | | * rms just uses Google Docs because fuck installing a 300MB program to make a resume. |
| 03:06 | < Noah> | I had too many issues with it, so I've got my copy of Office from the school |
| 03:07 | <@rms> | On a sidenote: fuck everyone who wants a .doc file. |
| 03:07 | < Noah> | No, because I know that one of those people is my male instructor, and I don't particularly want to fuck him |
| 03:08 | <@rms> | Heh |
| 03:08 | < Noah> | IN MY LINUX CLASS |
| 03:08 | <@rms> | D: |
| 03:08 | < Noah> | I know, right? |
| 03:08 | < Silver_Adept> | Right. Short version: Silv cobbled together a VBA script that works in Powerpoint to display a random image from a directory. Said script does not translate to LO, which is what the computer driving the slideshow is running due to it being utterly unable to boot Windows at all. (And thus has Lucid Puppy running off a USB stick.) Silv needs said script to translate to LO. Or to get his IT department to give a machine that works. |
| 03:09 | < Noah> | Well, writing it in python should be technically easy, but integrating it with LO, I dunno |
| 03:10 | <@rms> | Wait... |
| 03:10 | <@rms> | The /end/ objective it to just display a random picture? |
| 03:10 | <@rms> | If so google wallpaperd |
| 03:11 | < Noah> | I think it's supposed to work in a powerpoint slide? |
| 03:11 | <@ToxicFrog> | Or you can do it in bash in like five lines |
| 03:11 | <@rms> | That too |
| 03:12 | <@ToxicFrog> | Silver_Adept: what is your end goal here? I think we have an XY problem. |
| 03:13 | <@rms> | OMG, <3 ToxicFrog for teaching me "XY Problem" as a term that exists. |
| 03:13 | < Silver_Adept> | Okay: Goal: When slide in Impress/Powerpoint is displayed, fetch random picture from directory, display, make sure said picture can be examined in detail. When slide is not displayed, either: a) destroy object to be recreated on the next loop, or b) on next loop, simply change picture in object with new picture. |
| 03:13 | < Noah> | What does the chromosome pairing of the problem have to do with anything? |
| 03:14 | <@rms> | http://www.perlmonks.org/?node_id=542341 |
| 03:14 | <@rms> | Object? |
| 03:14 | <~Vornucopia> | So wait |
| 03:14 | <~Vornucopia> | You want to make a slide with a random image on it that changes each time that slide loads? |
| 03:15 | < Silver_Adept> | Yeah. Also, *points at self* not coder, therefore, has not figured out the simple way. |
| 03:15 | <@ToxicFrog> | Noah: someone says they want to do insane thing Y; after much discussion it transpires that they actually wanted to do X, and have incorrectly fixated on Y as the best way to do it. |
| 03:15 | <@rms> | Is there more than one slide? |
| 03:15 | <@ToxicFrog> | Silver_Adept: why? What is your underlying goal? |
| 03:15 | <~Vornucopia> | And it has to be in an existing presentation? |
| 03:16 | <@ToxicFrog> | A presentation that includes one slide that's randomized each time it's given? |
| 03:16 | <~Vornucopia> | Would a suitable alternative be a button that takes you to a random slide in some segment of the presentation? |
| 03:16 | < Silver_Adept> | To display the artwork of little kidlets in a random or pseudorandom fashion. It will eventually be inserted into a slideshow of static imagery because it's part of an advertising loop. Said advertising loop needs to not need user input at any point. |
| 03:17 | < Noah> | ToxicFrog: Oh, I do that all the time. That's why if I've been working on an issue for more than an hour or two, I step back and look at what I'm really trying to accomplish |
| 03:17 | <~Vornucopia> | Okay so you're looking to have a looping presentation with a random image each time. |
| 03:17 | < Silver_Adept> | Yep. |
| 03:17 | <~Vornucopia> | ...would it be okay to have a predetermined sequence of these images. |
| 03:17 | < Silver_Adept> | Absolutely. |
| 03:18 | <~Vornucopia> | All right, well that gives us a cheesy way of making all your non-art slides repeat like a b c art d e a b c art d e a b c art d e a b c art d e |
| 03:18 | <@ToxicFrog> | You don't even need PP/LO for this; something like eye of gnome in slideshow mode with a folder of appropriately named images will do. |
| 03:19 | < Silver_Adept> | True. I suppose I could export all the slides as images and do that... |
| 03:19 | <~Vornucopia> | (WIndows XP and better also have this ability, but you have the same problem) |
| 03:20 | < Silver_Adept> | Sounds like you have another example of an XY problem, then. Does Eye of Gnome exist in the Puppy repositories? |
| 03:21 | <@ToxicFrog> | If not, I'm sure something equivalent does. |
| 03:21 | <~Vornucopia> | You can also do this in almost pure html |
| 03:21 | <~Vornucopia> | It'd be literally two lines of js |
| 03:21 | <@ToxicFrog> | True! |
| 03:21 | <@ToxicFrog> | That's an even better idea. |
| 03:21 | < Silver_Adept> | ...well, then. I appear to have unnecessarily complicated things again. |
| 03:21 | <@ToxicFrog> | Although it won't autoscale the image to screen size, I think? If that's an issue |
| 03:22 | <~Vornucopia> | the CSS can handle that. |
| 03:22 | < Silver_Adept> | That isn't completely an issue...but I do want all the images to be properly aspected inside a certain size boundary box, so that the nice flavor text "Your art could be here. Ask X for details." will display on the bottom of the screen as well. |
| 03:22 | <~Vornucopia> | easiest if they're all the same aspect ratio, you just set the image width to 100% |
| 03:23 | < Silver_Adept> | No good there, sorry, Vorn. Different aspect ratios and sizes. |
| 03:23 | <@ToxicFrog> | You can always preprocess them with imagemagick, although it would be better to have the CSS or JavaScript handle the sizing |
| 03:23 | < Noah> | Then figure out if the height or width is larger, then set the width or height to 100% accordingly |
| 03:24 | <~Vornucopia> | What noah said, but that's more js |
| 03:24 | < Noah> | Oh hey, I'm a js coder and didn't even know it |
| 03:26 | < Silver_Adept> | Hrm. And maybe that would help the problem that the smaller images aren't showing up clearly because PP/LO wants to make them tiny...? |
| 03:27 | <~Vornucopia> | Perhaps. |
| 03:27 | < Noah> | They'll be blurry as all fuck |
| 03:27 | < Silver_Adept> | I think my problem is that I may have made some of them too small with GIMP in trying to reduce file sizes and other sizes to too small... |
| 03:27 | <@ToxicFrog> | ..trying to reduce file sizes? |
| 03:28 | < Noah> | I find changing quality of images usually get sizes down easy without needless resizing |
| 03:28 | < Silver_Adept> | Well, from 3MB giants to a few K. |
| 03:28 | < Noah> | JPGs? |
| 03:28 | < Silver_Adept> | Hundred K, I suppose. |
| 03:28 | < Silver_Adept> | Jpegs. |
| 03:28 | <@ToxicFrog> | Better yet, scale them down to the size of the screen you're displaying on and stop there. |
| 03:28 | <~Vornucopia> | File size is the least of your worries, unless you're running from a small USB stick. |
| 03:28 | < Noah> | Or that |
| 03:28 | < Silver_Adept> | 2GB at most. |
| 03:28 | <~Vornucopia> | that's not small. |
| 03:29 | <~Vornucopia> | Your budget at 3MB/image is then something like 650 images. |
| 03:29 | < Noah> | Plus OS |
| 03:29 | < Noah> | I think he's running a live USB of linux |
| 03:29 | < Noah> | Maybe? |
| 03:29 | < Silver_Adept> | Yep. Live USB of Linux, plus image size. |
| 03:30 | <~Vornucopia> | complete 1280x1024, uncompressed, runs you 3.75MB/image, and that is, I emphasize, uncompressed. |
| 03:30 | < Silver_Adept> | I get the feeling I've been going about this All Wrong. |
| 03:30 | < Noah> | Silver_Adept: They make me feel that way aaallllll the time |
| 03:30 | < Silver_Adept> | Which may mean having to go re-do everything else. |
| 03:31 | <~Vornucopia> | Note that Powerpoint, last i checked, really really explodes file sizes when you start adding images. |
| 03:31 | < Silver_Adept> | Because some of the images are images, and some of the images are basically scanned text. |
| 03:31 | < Silver_Adept> | But that I want to get rid of the white space for. |
| 03:32 | <@ToxicFrog> | Puppy is like 100MB |
| 03:32 | <@ToxicFrog> | You have plenty of extra room |
| 03:32 | <@ToxicFrog> | If you don't you can switch to TinyCore which is like 25MB with all the bonus features |
| 03:32 | < Noah> | 100 megs! That's like 33 JPEGS! |
| 03:33 | < Silver_Adept> | Okay, so let's start again. Silv has been tasked with displaying arts and poetry/short stories from community kidlets. He wants to work this into an already existing sequence of advertisements developed in Powerpoint, so that as the sequence loops, it displays one of the poetry/images at its correct point in the slide-show. But I do not want the slide show to be mostly composed of said poetry/images. |
| 03:34 | < Silver_Adept> | (There will have to be some processing, as some of the material that came in on paper is on more than one page, and it was not typed into a database at any point.) |
| 03:34 | <@ToxicFrog> | Ok. My instinct here would be HTML+JS, browser in fullscreen mode, CSS/JS to scale the image, either don't scale the images yourself at all ahead of time or scale them to screen size. |
| 03:35 | <@rms> | Yeah, TF's solution is pretty light-weight. Any decent code should have no issue in doing it in a few lines. |
| 03:36 | < Silver_Adept> | (Anyone suggesting I type them all in will be flayed, and then their heads will be displayed from the crenelations as a warning to others.) |
| 03:36 | <@ToxicFrog> | This'll be pretty lightweight, should work in just about any browser, requires minimal supporting software and works on any OS. |
| 03:37 | < Silver_Adept> | I like this idea. Difficulty of adding new material or changing out older stuff? |
| 03:37 | <@rms> | echo 'var a = '['; ls | sed 's/.*/"&",/g'; echo ']; a.pop()' |
| 03:38 | <@rms> | Run that in the image directory. Copy that into the head of the JS file. Tell the dev that the image list is in a variable named "a" |
| 03:38 | <@rms> | Hell, it's even possible to make a script that just updates the JS entirely. |
| 03:38 | < Silver_Adept> | Okay, the regexp there is Sumerian to me. |
| 03:38 | <@ToxicFrog> | ...oh yeah, js can't scan the directory itself, can it. |
| 03:39 | <@rms> | It can not. |
| 03:39 | <@ToxicFrog> | Blargh. |
| 03:39 | <@rms> | Unless you have SSJS too |
| 03:39 | < Silver_Adept> | But it can take an array and do stuff with it, which is what I suspect rms's stuff is doing. |
| 03:39 | <@ToxicFrog> | Silver_Adept: yeah, it's creating an array of JS strings from the output of ls |
| 03:40 | <@rms> | Yeah, all that does is make a file listing as an array. |
| 03:41 | < Silver_Adept> | So I'd need to run that command every time I added or took files away from the target directory. |
| 03:41 | <@ToxicFrog> | Yes. |
| 03:42 | <@ToxicFrog> | Hmm. |
| 03:42 | | * ToxicFrog fiddles with something |
| 03:42 | <@rms> | You could cronjob it, or make it a button (.desktop file) |
| 03:42 | <@ToxicFrog> | Honestly it feels like it would work better if it were a directory of images-or-directories |
| 03:42 | <@ToxicFrog> | Image: display. Directory: pick a random image from it on each pass |
| 03:43 | < Silver_Adept> | That sounds like my current setup. |
| 03:44 | < Silver_Adept> | And if I can set it up so that the script iterates through the parent directory, it will display the images in the directory, and then will spend one slide on a random image from the child directory. |
| 03:44 | < Silver_Adept> | Thus preserving my desire to go through the advertisements more than the poetry. |
| 03:44 | <@ToxicFrog> | Yep |
| 03:45 | < Silver_Adept> | ...so how does that actually work? |
| 03:46 | | * Silver_Adept is still, unfortunately, not anywhere near a coder. |
| 03:46 | <@ToxicFrog> | The "update" script generates a list of images and directories (and images-within-directories) for the javascript; the javascript on the page just goes down the list, displaying each in turn |
| 03:47 | <@ToxicFrog> | I don't know enough JS/CSS to get the scaling working right but I could hack together a proof-of-concept, I think. |
| 03:48 | < Silver_Adept> | If the JS does the iterations, I can probably figure out how to tell the CSS that all images must have minimum dimensions of X-by-Y, and if they don't fit that criteria, to scale them up to meet it. |
| 03:48 | <@ToxicFrog> | Or down. |
| 03:48 | < Silver_Adept> | Min and Max. Good point. |
| 03:52 | < Silver_Adept> | (Took me freaking forever to find a code example just to get VBA to figure out what the pwd was...) |
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| 03:59 | <~Vornucopia> | wait wait |
| 03:59 | <~Vornucopia> | Do we want other slides in between? |
| 03:59 | < Silver_Adept> | Like, art a b c art d e f? |
| 03:59 | <~Vornucopia> | Right |
| 04:00 | <~Vornucopia> | If so, when our page doesn't have its previous context when we get back to it. |
| 04:00 | <~Vornucopia> | So we'll have to either store off the data (in a cookie?) or pick a random image (Math.random to the rescue) |
| 04:00 | < Silver_Adept> | The art slide needs to happen a minimum of one time per loop. If you can wrangle more, yay, but once is enough. |
| 04:01 | <~Vornucopia> | Okay. |
| 04:02 | <~Vornucopia> | Yeah, more than one works. |
| 04:02 | < Silver_Adept> | The other images should display only once per loop. |
| 04:03 | <~Vornucopia> | Okay, now here's the other problem: you've built slides in ppt (or impress) and they need to show up too; the best bet with the current trick is to export to html; I know ppt can do this but it comes up with some horrors. THen all you need to do is set up the meta refresh and you're good to go. |
| 04:04 | < Silver_Adept> | I can export all ppt slides purely as images - truthfully,it's what most of them come in as. |
| 04:06 | <~Vornucopia> | Okay. |
| 04:07 | <~Vornucopia> | That works. Then you can do something like a.html b.html c.html art1.html d.html e.html f.html art2.html and each redirects after some fixed time to the next one |
| 04:07 | <@rms> | https://gist.github.com/2485887 |
| 04:07 | <~Vornucopia> | And then the art.html ones are-- rms comes through |
| 04:07 | <@rms> | Oh, the .html ones will need more code |
| 04:08 | | * rms has to do something else |
| 04:08 | <~Vornucopia> | No, the difference is |
| 04:08 | <@rms> | Basically you'll want two divs that you can hide/unhide, one with an <img /> the other with an <iframe /> |
| 04:08 | <~Vornucopia> | instead of using settimeout to change the image, you use settimeout to either go to the next page, or a meta refresh to do the same thing. |
| 04:09 | <~Vornucopia> | But the other pages are simply your slides |
| 04:10 | <~Vornucopia> | Your, uh, non-art slides that is. |
| 04:11 | <~Vornucopia> | Making HTML that's all above the fold and looks attractive can be a black art, but I suspect that you are capable of it, SA |
| 04:11 | <@rms> | That requires more user-work when adding images though |
| 04:12 | <~Vornucopia> | I think rms missed part of the problem statement, actually |
| 04:13 | <~Vornucopia> | We have a cycle of slides, and /one/ (or possibly several) of them are randomly chosen art images. THe others are static. |
| 04:13 | < Silver_Adept> | Correct. |
| 04:15 | < Silver_Adept> | It would be nice if the art image slide had a static text tag at the bottom advertising how someone could get into the rotation, but that's extra. |
| 04:16 | < Noah> | You mean like a "space for rent"? |
| 04:16 | < Silver_Adept> | Close enough. |
| 04:17 | <~Vornucopia> | If the other slides are also images we can stay on one page the whole time, and use some minor trickery - an array of image names, and blanks in there that we guard for and use a random art image instead - to make it work |
| 04:17 | <@ToxicFrog> | That can be part of the surrounding HTML. |
| 04:17 | <@ToxicFrog> | Yeah, my idea was just a single page, generate a list of images and image-directories for the JS to include, cycle through them |
| 04:17 | <@ToxicFrog> | If it hits an image-directory, pick a single random image from the contents |
| 04:18 | <~Vornucopia> | You'd have to open up a manifest to choose that random image |
| 04:18 | <@ToxicFrog> | Yes. |
| 04:18 | <@ToxicFrog> | Hence the "generate a list" |
| 04:19 | <@ToxicFrog> | Something like ["1.png", "2.png", ["kids/1.png", "kids/2.png", "kids/3.png"], "4.png"] |
| 04:19 | <~Vornucopia> | Mmm, good one, yeah. |
| 04:20 | <&McMartin> | JS's type system is barely good enough to handle that. |
| 04:21 | <~Vornucopia> | I'd personally avoid that sort of jackassery in any language |
| 04:22 | <~Vornucopia> | [["1.png"], ["2.png"], ["kids/1.png", "kids/2.png", "kids/3.png"], ["4.png"]] is equivalent and needs no type check guards |
| 04:27 | < Rhamphoryncus> | Assuming it's always 1 or 2 deep |
| 04:28 | < Rhamphoryncus> | If you're doing an arbitrarily deep tree then you don't have much choice |
| 04:28 | <~Vornucopia> | right. |
| 04:29 | < Silver_Adept> | One deep at mpst. |
| 04:29 | <~Vornucopia> | assuming the other slides are 0 deep? right. |
| 04:30 | <~Vornucopia> | Anyway that kind of list can be easily generated (I bet you rms is working on that right now) and it's not hard in the slightest to hand twiddle |
| 04:30 | <~Vornucopia> | Want the same art directory to show up five times? Can be jiggered by hand that way or you can use links to make the process entirely automatic |
| 04:31 | | * rms is currently doing a mini-roleplay for a game he runs, and is as such no coding as indicated earlier |
| 04:31 | <~Vornucopia> | Heh |
| 04:31 | | * Vornucopia loses. |
| 04:31 | < Noah> | Vornufailicus. |
| 04:35 | | * Silver_Adept is following the high-level concepts here, but could not translate that into a lick of code if pressed. Even in Ruby. |
| 04:36 | <@rms> | Alternative: [showImage, showArt].shuffle()[0]() // this is the entirebody of the function sent to setInterval |
| 04:36 | <@rms> | showImage() is the same function as before |
| 04:36 | <@rms> | showArt() does the art thing (which can be non-random or whatever, I skimmed) |
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| 05:09 | < celticminstrel> | Why shuffle it? You could use random.choose(showImage,showArt). |
| 05:09 | < celticminstrel> | ^random.choose(showImage,showArt)(), I guess. |
| 05:10 | <~Vornucopia> | js doesn't have a random lib |
| 05:10 | < celticminstrel> | Oh, it's js. Never mind then. |
| 05:10 | < celticminstrel> | Somehow I missed this. <_< |
| 05:11 | < celticminstrel> | Still, wouldn't it be better to do generate a random index rather than shuffling? I suppose it doesn't make a difference for a two-element list... |
| 05:11 | < Silver_Adept> | I'm just glad people think this is a relatively simple operation. It's beyond my abilities, mind you, but that's why there are experts. |
| 05:14 | <@rms> | celticminstrel: I did it for clarity |
| 05:14 | <@rms> | JS Arrays do not have a shuffle method |
| 05:15 | <@rms> | The code to get a random index is fugly |
| 05:15 | < celticminstrel> | But you could add one to them. :P |
| 05:15 | <@rms> | Yes |
| 05:16 | <~Vornucopia> | ary[Math.floor(Math.random() * ary.length)] |
| 05:22 | <~Vornucopia> | is how you get a random item from an array named ary |
| 05:22 | <~Vornucopia> | (in python you'd jump straight to random.choice(ary) |
| 05:23 | < Noah> | Trillian is 60 fucking dollars?! |
| 05:24 | <@rms> | People still use Trillian? |
| 05:24 | < Noah> | At $60, I can't imagine so |
| 05:25 | < Noah> | It was fine on Android until they started with the advertisements |
| 05:25 | <@rms> | What protocols does the Android one support? |
| 05:26 | | * Rhamphoryncus escapes from an hour browsing wikipedia and tries to remember what he was doing |
| 05:26 | < Noah> | Several... MSN, AOL, ICQ, Yahoo, Gtalk, and others that I can't think off |
| 05:26 | < Noah> | I think it lacks IRC |
| 05:27 | < Rhamphoryncus> | I did figure out what siphon van means, at least the siphon part. No idea about van vs carriage vs wagon vs whatever. They seem pretty arbitrary and random |
| 05:28 | < Rhamphoryncus> | siphon being the telegraph code for milk churn wagon. No particular meaning, just used to make telegraphs shorter |
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| 06:24 | < Noah> | I think this USB hub is so old, that USB 2.0 wasn't even a think when it was made |
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| 06:29 | < Noah> | My cats aren't very fond of my new automatic air freshener... |
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| 07:04 | | You're now known as TheWatcher |
| 07:52 | | * Silver_Adept calls it a night. Thanks for all the help...although I'm still not sure how to go about bending the code to my will. But it does sound a lot easier the way you're proposing than the way I'm trying to muddle through. |
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| 09:33 | <&McMartin> | Whoops. |
| 09:33 | | * McMartin disables the Commodore BASIC ROM from inside a BASIC program |
| 09:33 | <&McMartin> | This was not the winning strategy I had planned |
| 09:33 | <&McMartin> | OTOH, the system handled it a little better than I'd expected. |
| 09:33 | <&McMartin> | (It reacted as if it had taken a non-maskable interrupt, which clears the screen, resets the memory map and I/O devices, and puts you back at a BASIC prompt.) |
| 09:47 | < Noah> | That sounds like "I did it wrong" |
| 09:48 | <&McMartin> | Just slightly, yes |
| 09:48 | | * McMartin goes and writes that program in assembler instead. |
| 09:52 | <&McMartin> | I was trying to test whether or not I had correctly gotten the procedure right for bankswitching the RAM/ROM stuff. |
| 09:52 | <&McMartin> | There was a subtle flaw in my plan: can you spot it? |
| 09:54 | < Noah> | No, because I'm not that smart yet |
| 09:55 | <&McMartin> | The program doing the test was written in BASIC |
| 09:55 | <&jerith> | McMartin: I did that deliberately once. |
| 09:55 | < Noah> | Oh, so the doctor was doing surgury on himself |
| 09:55 | < Noah> | surgery even |
| 09:55 | <&McMartin> | I intend to *eventually* do this on purpose |
| 09:56 | <&jerith> | The secret is to loop over the appropriate memory range and PEEK/POKE each address. |
| 09:56 | <&McMartin> | Because if I can put it c64-crt0.oph it'll give the assembly programmer 52KB of contiguous RAM. |
| 09:56 | <&jerith> | (The PEEK reads from ROM, the POKE writes to RAM.) |
| 09:56 | <&McMartin> | Right |
| 09:56 | <&McMartin> | I've done that for CHAR-ROM. |
| 09:57 | <&jerith> | (I was about 10 and copying it from a magazine, but they provided some interesting mods to the BASIC terp.) |
| 09:57 | <&McMartin> | Yeah, those are fun. |
| 09:57 | <&McMartin> | But here the goal is to free up the RAM for the programmer to use themselves. |
| 09:58 | < Noah> | Ahh, when you used to download from a magazine, those were the days |
| 09:58 | < Noah> | Or they would've been the days if I weren't so young |
| 09:58 | <&McMartin> | <3 |
| 09:58 | | * McMartin was exactly the right age. |
| 09:58 | | * McMartin still has some of his books of listings. |
| 09:59 | < Noah> | That said, I've done that myself, on that stupid tandy I used to have |
| 09:59 | < Noah> | Yay library periodical archives |
| 09:59 | | * McMartin nods |
| 09:59 | <&McMartin> | ZX81, C64, and IBM PC/BASICA/GW-BASIC for me. |
| 09:59 | <&McMartin> | https://hkn.eecs.berkeley.edu/~mcmartin/retro/ |
| 10:00 | < Noah> | Wow, that's a pretty sweet hotair balloon |
| 10:00 | <&McMartin> | 8-bit riot |
| 10:19 | < Noah> | Oh, I should try minecraft with this extra gig of ram, maybe I won't swap to death |
| 10:26 | <&McMartin> | Right, OK, program rewritten in assembler |
| 10:26 | <@TheWatcher> | Don't hold your breath >.> |
| 10:26 | <&McMartin> | sleeptime |
| 10:26 | <@TheWatcher> | Night McM |
| 10:55 | < Noah> | Okay, minecraft is playable now at least |
| 10:55 | < Noah> | Still some stuttering, but not nearly as bad as before |
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| 12:22 | | mode/#code [+ao McMartin McMartin] by ChanServ |
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| 13:22 | | gruber is now known as gnolam |
| 13:35 | <@ToxicFrog> | Oh hell yes, Linux support for Steam is official |
| 13:38 | <@TheWatcher> | O.o |
| 13:38 | <@TheWatcher> | \o/ |
| 13:39 | <@Tamber> | \o/ |
| 13:39 | < gnolam> | ! |
| 13:39 | < gnolam> | ToxicFrog: link |
| 13:39 | < gnolam> | +? |
| 13:40 | <@TheWatcher> | Of course, now all we need is HL3 to be released and the world will end~ |
| 13:40 | <@ToxicFrog> | http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=valve_linux_dampfnudeln&num=2 |
| 13:41 | <@ToxicFrog> | Short form: Valve is planning a release of linux!steam this year along with L4D2, with other Source games to follow along with pressure on developers to release linux versions of their games. |
| 13:41 | <@ToxicFrog> | Also, gaben is not a fan of win8. |
| 13:44 | < gnolam> | Is anyone? |
| 13:44 | <@TheWatcher> | Microsoft is, probably? |
| 13:48 | < gnolam> | I wonder what this means for mods. |
| 13:48 | < gnolam> | (And if I can get paid to port mine to Linux. ;)) |
| 14:03 | <@ToxicFrog> | Lots of speculation that this is stage 1 in Valve releasing a linux+steam based console. |
| 14:10 | < Namegduf> | ToxicFrog: No, it isn't |
| 14:10 | < Namegduf> | ToxicFrog: Phoronix CLAIM it is "official" |
| 14:10 | < Namegduf> | They put out headlines claiming it was official in 2010 |
| 14:10 | < Namegduf> | This claim to have actual first hand evidence is interesting, but bluntly these people are not credible. |
| 14:11 | < Namegduf> | They were used as a source by everyone else then, too. |
| 14:12 | < Namegduf> | THey definitely have had code internally running Linux since then, and I'm willing to buy that they *probably* didn't fabricate an entire visit, but all future predictions of release dates should probably be ignored, because they were predicting it within months and using the word "official" when the Mac client came out. |
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| 16:18 | < Rhamphoryncus> | wtf vlc. Crop settings in the menu only change the aspect ratio. The crop video filter.. also changes the aspect ratio! |
| 16:18 | < Rhamphoryncus> | Actually, they'll cut off the right side, but top and bottom only change aspect ratio |
| 16:18 | < Rhamphoryncus> | Even better, the crop video filter, when you do top/bottom, causes the window to resize to the new aspect ratio |
| 16:29 | < gnolam> | Namegduf: the only thing I know about Phoronix is that they used to spam /. with utterly useless benchmarks. |
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| 18:29 | < Tarinaky> | Documenting my code would be easier if, at this point, my GUI was made of something other than Spiders and Magic. |
| 18:39 | < gnolam> | My Little Spider: Neurotoxin is Magic |
| 18:39 | < Tarinaky> | My little spiders: First year Java assignments are terrible. |
| 18:55 | <@TheWatcher> | s/First year// |
| 18:55 | <@TheWatcher> | ¬¬ |
| 18:58 | <&jerith> | s/assignments are/is/ |
| 19:05 | | * TheWatcher vaguely wonders if there's a unicode character that looks like a spider... |
| 19:08 | | Vornucopia [NSwebIRC@C888DE.7F9621.4A1301.BBBE7B] has joined #code |
| 19:13 | <&jerith> | TheWatcher: This is the closest I can find: http://www.fileformat.info/info/unicode/char/1f41b/index.htm |
| 19:13 | < Vornucopia> | silliness. |
| 19:15 | <@TheWatcher> | ... pft, so I could deliberately put bugs in my code, eh? |
| 19:18 | <&jerith> | TheWatcher: Curses! You have uncovered my dastardly plot! |
| 19:19 | | Kindamoody is now known as Kindamoody[zZz] |
| 19:24 | | Eri [Eri@Nightstar-3e5deec3.gv.shawcable.net] has joined #code |
| 19:25 | < RichyB> | ?? |
| 19:26 | < celticminstrel> | ......... |
| 19:26 | < RichyB> | ? |
| 19:26 | < celticminstrel> | I have colour fonts now? o.O |
| 19:26 | < RichyB> | ? |
| 19:26 | < celticminstrel> | Your bug character shows up as a caterpillar. In colour. |
| 19:27 | < RichyB> | The fonts I have installed here display it like a millipede. |
| 19:27 | < RichyB> | It's the "BUG" code-point that jerith pointed out above. |
| 19:27 | < celticminstrel> | I guessed as much. |
| 19:27 | < celticminstrel> | Apparently the font is "Apple Color Emoji". |
| 19:28 | < RichyB> | The fact that your client displays it in some random colour is, uh, I have no idea. |
| 19:28 | < RichyB> | Interesting. |
| 19:28 | < celticminstrel> | I guess it's the only font I have that understands that code point. |
| 19:29 | < RichyB> | Xchat and Firefox both display it but Emacs 23 fails to. |
| 19:30 | < RichyB> | The font that I have installed that seems to include it is called "Symbola". |
| 19:30 | < RichyB> | http://users.teilar.gr/~g1951d/ |
| 19:37 | <@ToxicFrog> | What's the codepoint? |
| 19:38 | < celticminstrel> | 1f41b |
| 19:40 | < RichyB> | "BUG". |
| 19:40 | < RichyB> | jerith linked http://www.fileformat.info/info/unicode/char/1f41b/index.htm earlier, which has a sample rendering. |
| 19:46 | < Eri> | Oh, is that what all the weird Unicode characters are for? Pictographic languages? |
| 19:52 | < Alek> | and designers. |
| 19:53 | < Alek> | and old games that used fonts to draw on the screen. |
| 19:53 | < Alek> | and SCIENCE! |
| 19:53 | < Eri> | Except most of those games were pre-unicode, so these things weren't available to them |
| 19:54 | < Alek> | people still make similar games. |
| 19:54 | < Eri> | Also, designers, are we talking, like, web designers and shit? Because they use images |
| 19:54 | < Alek> | you'd be surprised how many nonstandard characters SCIENCE! uses. |
| 19:54 | < Alek> | but also, yes, pictographs. |
| 19:54 | < RichyB> | Unicode's mandate is to be round-trip compatible with every other encoding system on the planet, and to encode every human writing system. |
| 19:55 | < Alek> | there was a huge trend in the 90's, iirc, to use pictographs. |
| 19:55 | < RichyB> | So it has code points for *every* script, including things like "Linear A" and "Linear B", which are languages that nobody knows how to speak, and trying to read them is basically cryptanalysis. |
| 19:56 | < RichyB> | It also has code points for all of the pictorial code points that have been used in other encodings, because it's required to be round-trip compatible with all other encodings. |
| 19:56 | < RichyB> | e.g. some idiot put a glyph into Shift-JIS for the Japanese postal service's logo. So that's in Unicode. |
| 19:56 | < Alek> | as soon as we encounter an alien language, we'll have a unicode set for it. -_- |
| 19:57 | < Alek> | in fact, we may ALREADY have a unicode set for it. XD |
| 19:57 | < RichyB> | Recently, some idiots made up their own tiny encoding system and deployed it to a few million phones, which just happened to have its own character encoding that included points that stood for smiley faces |
| 19:57 | < RichyB> | so now there are emoticons in Unicode. |
| 19:57 | < RichyB> | All those MS-DOS code pages with line-drawing characters and stuff? In Unicode. |
| 19:58 | < RichyB> | About the only thing (AIUI) which hasn't made it into Unicode is the Klingon language, which got told to fuck off on the basis that no human beings speak it. ;P |
| 20:03 | < Vornucopia> | well, no, more like it's got ip encumberance. trademark or something |
| 20:03 | < celticminstrel> | Does Unicode have the Apple logo as well? |
| 20:03 | < Vornucopia> | no. |
| 20:03 | < celticminstrel> | So it's not round-trip compatible with Apple encodings! :P |
| 20:04 | < Vornucopia> | it's in the Private Use Area actually |
| 20:04 | < RichyB> | Vornicus, I think the Unicode consortium might be one of those societies that publishes all of its meeting minutes. You could probably find out. ;P |
| 20:04 | < celticminstrel> | Did Tengwar get into Unicode, then? |
| 20:04 | < Vornucopia> | No, same reason |
| 20:04 | < RichyB> | Vornicus, no, the Private Use Area is the character encoding equivalent of rfc1918. Nothing in there is in the standard, it's all implementation-defined. |
| 20:05 | < Vornucopia> | Right. |
| 20:05 | < celticminstrel> | There's a separate standard for fictional scripts in the PUA. :P |
| 20:05 | < Vornucopia> | I have two fonts with different characters in the same codepoint in the PUA: one with the Windows logo and one with the Apple logo |
| 20:07 | < froztbyte> | just randomly, RFC1918 isn't the up to date one |
| 20:07 | < froztbyte> | the new one is ... err |
| 20:07 | | * froztbyte looks |
| 20:08 | < froztbyte> | http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc5735 |
| 20:08 | < froztbyte> | that one |
| 20:08 | < froztbyte> | includes the docs ranges, etc |
| 20:08 | < celticminstrel> | What are they? |
| 20:08 | < celticminstrel> | ie what is rfc1918 |
| 20:09 | < RichyB> | froztbyte, oh, that's really useful, thanks. |
| 20:09 | < RichyB> | celticminstrel, private IP address ranges. |
| 20:09 | < froztbyte> | RFC1918 is the RFC that indicates 10.0.0.0/8, 172.16.0.0/12, 192.168.0.0/16 as non-routable IPv4 space |
| 20:09 | < froztbyte> | well, non-routable for internet purposes |
| 20:10 | < froztbyte> | I think 1918 included two more ranges, but yeah |
| 20:10 | <&McMartin> | There are semi-official places for the Tengwar, Klingon, and for On Beyond Zebra |
| 20:10 | < froztbyte> | 5735 == ALL the things |
| 20:11 | < RichyB> | froztbyte, skimming 1918, it only mentions the 10/8, 172.16/12 and 192.168/16 blocks |
| 20:11 | < froztbyte> | RichyB: hmm, I guess I'm thinking of one of the 3xyz then regarding some docs ranges or something |
| 20:12 | < froztbyte> | the nice thing with 5735 is that it even covers ranges that can be adequately used for testing without interfering with production stuff, all that |
| 20:12 | < froztbyte> | which is nice |
| 20:13 | < froztbyte> | I guess it also only matters if you're actually in the networking game, or just like doing things properly |
| 20:16 | < RichyB> | http://ars.userfriendly.org/cartoons/?id=19971220 |
| 20:16 | < RichyB> | I'll just leave that there. |
| 20:19 | < froztbyte> | haha |
| 20:25 | | Derakon[AFK] is now known as Derakon |
| 20:42 | <&jerith> | a/act |
| 20:42 | <&jerith> | Oops. |
| 20:44 | < froztbyte> | so uhm |
| 20:44 | < froztbyte> | with the demoscene stuff from not-too-long-ago in mind |
| 20:44 | < froztbyte> | I present to you: http://archive.org/details/8088CorruptionExplained |
| 20:48 | <&McMartin> | Heh |
| 20:48 | <&McMartin> | http://static.arstechnica.net/04-20-2012/windows-8-desktops/file-copy-progress-m ultiple-copies.png |
| 20:49 | <&McMartin> | This is the first W8 feature I can say without reservation is awesome. |
| 20:49 | <&McMartin> | I don't know if it's useful |
| 20:49 | <&McMartin> | But it's awesome |
| 20:49 | < froztbyte> | transparent ripping? |
| 20:49 | < froztbyte> | (KDE's got that) |
| 20:49 | <&McMartin> | protip: basic usability isn't "ripping stuff off" |
| 20:49 | < RichyB> | Progress meters for copying between folders? |
| 20:49 | <&McMartin> | That's why every OS sucks. |
| 20:50 | <&McMartin> | Historicity on the progress meter. |
| 20:50 | <&McMartin> | So you can see performance spikes or plummets |
| 20:50 | < Noah> | IT IS THE NINTIES! |
| 20:50 | < Noah> | AND THERE IS TIME FOR |
| 20:50 | < Noah> | School. |
| 20:50 | < froztbyte> | no I mean |
| 20:50 | < RichyB> | McMartin, I think froztbyte meant that KDE feature where you can open up an audio CD in KDE's equivalent of Finder/Nautilus/Explorer, drag and drop the tracks to your desktop, and it'll cdparanoia them and lame them into mp3s. |
| 20:50 | < froztbyte> | I understood that to be .... what RichyB said |
| 20:50 | <&McMartin> | Yeah, no, that wasn't actually what I meant. |
| 20:51 | <&McMartin> | I meant "you get disk performance graphs when you do a copy" |
| 20:51 | < froztbyte> | but yeah |
| 20:51 | < RichyB> | Confusion occurred probably just because of the filenames involved. |
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| 20:51 | < froztbyte> | that could be useful |
| 20:51 | < froztbyte> | RichyB: exactly |
| 20:51 | < RichyB> | It looked kinda like you were dragging from a DVD and having it auto-rip into h.264 |
| 20:51 | < RichyB> | which would be fucking awesome come to think of it |
| 20:51 | <&McMartin> | Hm |
| 20:51 | <&McMartin> | I don't know if you can do it at the drive level in Explorer or Finder |
| 20:52 | <&McMartin> | But surely GNOME or KDE lets you put what Windows calls "Shell extensions" on drives? |
| 20:52 | < RichyB> | I should add that to KDE and/or Gnome. |
| 20:52 | <&McMartin> | I'm imagining "right click DVD, rip it to videos" |
| 20:52 | < froztbyte> | I think the native KDE implementation for audio would enable you to do so pretty easily, RichyB |
| 20:52 | <&McMartin> | Having explored DVDs, I'm not convinced the native faile contents mix well with drag and drop. |
| 20:52 | < froztbyte> | maybe just some handler changes |
| 20:53 | < froztbyte> | McMartin: that's why you'll not drag the files, but the disc entity |
| 20:53 | < froztbyte> | although you'll probably need to special-case it a bit |
| 20:53 | <&McMartin> | Yeah |
| 20:53 | < froztbyte> | "drag the disc to your movies folder to rip" |
| 20:53 | < RichyB> | McMartin, Konqueror (that's the name of it in KDE) would actually show you the tracks as entities, and it'd do a CDDB lookup for the titles and everything. |
| 20:53 | <&McMartin> | I'm wondering if right-click-context menu wouldn't be more sensible here |
| 20:53 | < froztbyte> | to not break shortcut behaviour |
| 20:53 | <&McMartin> | RichyB: Yes, but tracks are their own things. |
| 20:53 | <&McMartin> | DVDs are literally data discs with a specific format |
| 20:53 | <&McMartin> | You really don't want to break that behavior in file viewers. |
| 20:54 | < froztbyte> | RichyB: CDDA maps file:track, roughly |
| 20:54 | < froztbyte> | DVD doesn't do that |
| 20:54 | <&McMartin> | ^^ |
| 20:54 | < froztbyte> | not even chapter:file |
| 20:54 | < RichyB> | I think a lot of people would quite like to be able to pull up a DVD and have a thing that *looks* like a bunch of simple files. |
| 20:54 | < froztbyte> | depending on which book standard you use, you get varying max-sizes |
| 20:54 | <&McMartin> | Yes, but there's huge potential for DVDs to do the Horrible GNOME Thing |
| 20:54 | < RichyB> | Which Horrible GNOME Thing? |
| 20:54 | < froztbyte> | and then the data is packed through all of that |
| 20:54 | < RichyB> | Gnome has arguably done more than one. ;P |
| 20:54 | < froztbyte> | also why the fuck do I still remember so much about redbook and stuff? :( |
| 20:55 | <&McMartin> | "We know better than you do so we're going to hide the information that's actually there in favor of what we think you'd rather have" |
| 20:55 | < RichyB> | froztbyte, because data encodings tend to stick in peoples' heads. Moreso than code. I bet you remember random structs, and what eight-to-fourteen is, and everything. |
| 20:55 | < froztbyte> | DON'T. DO. THAT. |
| 20:55 | < froztbyte> | especially 8:14 :/ |
| 20:56 | < froztbyte> | RichyB: but yes, pretty true |
| 20:56 | <&McMartin> | 8:14? |
| 20:56 | < froztbyte> | lazy typing |
| 20:56 | < froztbyte> | but especially numbers, and structured sequences |
| 20:56 | < Vornucopia> | what's 8:14? |
| 20:56 | < froztbyte> | I can remember 45-digit sequences of things |
| 20:56 | < RichyB> | It's a way of encoding bytes that adds some error detection and also gets rid of DC bias. |
| 20:57 | < froztbyte> | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eight-to-fourteen_modulation |
| 20:57 | < RichyB> | I might have the name slightly off, but the gist is that you encode 8 bits of information in 14 bits of disk. |
| 20:57 | < froztbyte> | RichyB: so you know minidiscs, hey.... |
| 20:57 | <&McMartin> | Oh, so an ECC |
| 20:58 | < RichyB> | Yes, but it has more features than just error detection. |
| 20:58 | < RichyB> | It puts an upper bound on the maximum possible length of any straight run of ones or zeroes. |
| 20:59 | < RichyB> | and (I can't quite remember, but I think) it has zero DC bias, which means that regardless of what bitstring you put into it, for a sufficiently long bit-string you'll always get equal numbers of ones and zeroes. |
| 21:01 | <&jerith> | Doesn't DC bias refer to the average DAC output? |
| 21:01 | < RichyB> | End result is that it's much nicer for the laser assembly. :) |
| 21:01 | <&jerith> | Oh, for the laser assembly. |
| 21:01 | <&jerith> | :-) |
| 21:01 | < RichyB> | jerith, I might have the wrong term. Wikipedia calls EFM "DC-free" |
| 21:01 | <&jerith> | No, it's the right term. |
| 21:01 | <&jerith> | I was just thinking of the wrong end. |
| 21:02 | < RichyB> | Intuitively "average DAC output" sounds right. |
| 21:05 | < Alek> | oh my. the progress graphs DO look nice. XD |
| 21:05 | <&McMartin> | Source: http://arstechnica.com/microsoft/news/2012/04/windows-8-on-the-desktopan-awkward -hybrid.ars |
| 21:16 | <&McMartin> | typo of the day |
| 21:16 | <&McMartin> | bro-gramming |
| 21:16 | < froztbyte> | oh, that's a thing |
| 21:16 | < froztbyte> | seen it around on SO or something before |
| 21:18 | < RichyB> | Hopefully won't be a thing much longer. |
| 21:18 | < RichyB> | With any luck, the pony fandom will eat its lunch. |
| 21:19 | <&Derakon> | ISTR reading that "brogramming" was the more toxic side of the programmer community. |
| 21:19 | <&Derakon> | The misogynistic, insular guys. |
| 21:21 | < RichyB> | In theory, the pony fandom is almost by definition non-misogynistic. I don't know how well that pans out in practice. |
| 21:25 | <@ToxicFrog> | What is it about undefined behaviour that makes people crazy |
| 21:26 | <@TheWatcher> | Poorly chosen default settings. |
| 21:27 | < RichyB> | ToxicFrog, ? |
| 21:28 | < RichyB> | ToxicFrog, the fact that it has just cause a demon to fly out of their nose? |
| 21:28 | <@ToxicFrog> | RichyB: discussion on another network. |
| 21:28 | <@ToxicFrog> | In which someone has spent |
| 21:28 | <@ToxicFrog> | hang on |
| 21:28 | < RichyB> | Well, you brought it here and now you've piqued my interest. Please do elaborate? :) |
| 21:29 | <@ToxicFrog> | 25 minutes being an idiot because they want to believe "key-value pairs are iterated in an unspecified order" actually means "key-value pairs are iterated in order of insertion, but we didn't want to write that down" |
| 21:29 | <@ToxicFrog> | On the grounds that this holds for his tiny trivial test cases |
| 21:30 | < RichyB> | Ah. I assume that he is working (or, um, failing to) in JavaScript? |
| 21:30 | <&Derakon> | If he's using Python, point him at the OrderedDict class. |
| 21:30 | < Namegduf> | Ignore him; if he refuses to understand what "undefined" means he's both not presently competent and refusing to ever become so. |
| 21:30 | < Namegduf> | Waste of time. |
| 21:31 | <@ToxicFrog> | He is in fact using Lua. |
| 21:31 | < RichyB> | Dang! Bad guess. |
| 21:32 | <@ToxicFrog> | Namegduf: oh, I've been sitting back and eating popcorn, but some people are more optimistic than I am. |
| 21:33 | < Vornucopia> | have you at the very least linked a popcorn gif |
| 21:33 | <@ToxicFrog> | Possibly because they haven't been in the channel for upwards of five years and seen this many times before. |
| 21:34 | <@TheWatcher> | But, but... you can just go an look at how it's implemented andARGH >.< |
| 21:34 | | * TheWatcher sigh |
| 21:34 | <@ToxicFrog> | TheWatcher: well, there's at least three different implementations of lua in common use |
| 21:35 | | * Vornucopia wonders if you can build a trivial counterexample. |
| 21:36 | < RichyB> | Can you make value types in Lua that are hashable? |
| 21:36 | < RichyB> | Wait, no, nevermind, ditch the question. |
| 21:36 | <@ToxicFrog> | RichyB: what? |
| 21:37 | < RichyB> | Can you build, for instance, a complex number type in Lua with all the usual operator overloads for +-*/ and so on? |
| 21:37 | < RichyB> | and use them to index into tables? |
| 21:38 | < RichyB> | a[1.0 + 5.0j] = 'green'; |
| 21:38 | <@ToxicFrog> | For the first part: yes, but it wouldn't be a value type in the sense usually meant, it would be a reference type |
| 21:39 | < RichyB> | So of course you need some way to define a hash function for your type, and of course you want it to be immutable. |
| 21:40 | <@ToxicFrog> | Yeah. There's no builtin way to do that, but it's easy to augment a table to respect a __hash metamethod. |
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| --- Log closed Thu Apr 26 00:00:10 2012 |