| --- Log opened Fri Mar 30 00:00:02 2012 |
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| 00:34 | | * McMartin beats the shit out of people who install Vimperator by default |
| 00:36 | <@ToxicFrog> | Vimperator? |
| 00:37 | <&McMartin> | It is an add-on for Firefox that replaces the UI with vi controls |
| 00:38 | <@TheWatcher> | ... what |
| 00:38 | <&McMartin> | Among other things, apparently this also meant that click-to-download no longer worked |
| 00:38 | <&McMartin> | Dev floater Mac here, it looks like one of the vi zealots got their mitts on it last. |
| 00:38 | | * McMartin solves this problem with rm. |
| 00:39 | <&McMartin> | It's things like this that make me totally unashamed about being an emacs partisan, because I don't try to use it as an OS |
| 00:39 | <&McMartin> | But if I *did* it would at least be a better idea |
| 00:39 | <&McMartin> | Those vi guys, apparently, were projecting |
| 00:41 | <@rms> | ... why are you messing with someone else's settings? |
| 00:41 | <@rms> | If that came as a distro, then yes, murderate them. |
| 00:42 | <@TheWatcher> | You missed the bit where he said "dev floater mac" |
| 00:42 | | You're now known as TheWatcher[T-2] |
| 00:43 | | * rms googles that |
| 00:43 | | * rms gets nothing that looks relevant |
| 00:44 | <@TheWatcher[T-2]> | Machine that any of the devs can use, essentially it's everyone's settings. |
| 00:44 | <@rms> | Ah |
| 00:45 | <@rms> | That's more iffy, but aren't there Mac ports of Portable Apps? |
| 00:46 | | You're now known as TheWatcher[zZzZ] |
| 00:48 | < celticminstrel> | ...whyyy must they make me to such incredibly complicated things in assembly language. |
| 00:50 | <&McMartin> | rms: Which we don't use because it's the dev account and it would be retarded to install a dozen versions of the same things |
| 00:50 | | Derakon[AFK] is now known as Derakon |
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| 00:54 | <@rms> | ... and you completely miss the point of using PA in that context |
| 00:55 | <&McMartin> | OK, also, it's parked at someone's desk for awhile and even though it's a workflow we support, working off a USB is unpleasant at best, especially for core applications. |
| 00:55 | <@rms> | PA is to keep your settings without messing with someone else's when you have a shared machine |
| 00:58 | <@rms> | If you're using a Mac as a floater, it means you're deving a native app. At which point you shouldn't be using the web except for a few minor things. If you're using it enough to want to do something like install vimperator, then you get Portable Firefox. But really, doing it on the base install of a shared machine is a jerk move. |
| 00:59 | <@rms> | Why you're making an argument for him to do the jerk move is beyond me. |
| 01:00 | <&McMartin> | It's really more "the existence of Vimperator is evidence of severe brain damage" |
| 01:00 | <@rms> | I disagree there |
| 01:01 | <@rms> | It compliments wmii nicely in that I need to mouse less than before. |
| 01:01 | <@rms> | Since I use laptops often, and disable the trackpads, it's a very nice thing to have, familliar behavior is just a bonus. |
| 01:03 | <@rms> | BTW, there's an emacs counterpart to Vimperator. |
| 01:04 | <&McMartin> | This also seems like a bad move |
| 01:04 | <&McMartin> | Especially since elinks seems to have a graphical mode (???) |
| 01:04 | <@rms> | Then you miss out on Firefox plugins |
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| 02:41 | < Tarinaky> | http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/rk5e1/how_not_to_write_python_part_ 1_thanks_adobe/ |
| 03:01 | | * Derakon ponders how to tackle this issue. |
| 03:01 | <&Derakon> | Some commands you can input to the game require the game to prompt the user for more information. |
| 03:01 | <&Derakon> | For example, asking what item to use. |
| 03:02 | <&Derakon> | I want to maintain a good separation between the game model and the graphics layer to facilitate multiple UIs. |
| 03:02 | <&Derakon> | This means that objects can't know how to draw themselves. |
| 03:03 | <&Derakon> | So...I guess I make functions that exist in the UI layer but know how to display those objects? |
| 03:03 | <&Derakon> | That creates some external dependency issues which are moderately unpleasant even if I use accessors for all the information. |
| 03:15 | < Tarinaky> | I don't believe there is a perfect 'clean' solution. |
| 03:16 | < Tarinaky> | I'd be tempted to give Items a handful of attributes specifying what they look like (such as a string holding part of a pathname to a png and a character s |
| 03:16 | < Tarinaky> | +for a curses system |
| 03:17 | <&Derakon> | Things will need to have a unique identifier so that the artists know how to draw them, but it won't be representational at all. |
| 03:17 | | * Alek curses curses |
| 03:17 | <&Derakon> | Most likely just an index of some kind. |
| 03:17 | < Tarinaky> | Yeah, I think. |
| 03:17 | <&Derakon> | It's up to the artist to map that index to a character for "curses" mode or a PNG for graphical mode. |
| 03:18 | < Tarinaky> | Same diff really; just a detail. |
| 03:19 | <&Derakon> | An important detail, because what happens when we want to move to a 3D display or animated tiles or whatever? |
| 03:19 | < Tarinaky> | Adding a new UI will involve adding more data to the model either way. |
| 03:19 | <&Derakon> | More data to the display layer. |
| 03:19 | <&Derakon> | The model stays separate. |
| 03:19 | < Tarinaky> | I guess. |
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| 05:38 | | * Vornicus pokes vaguely at python and csv and that sort of thing. Wonders if he can interrupt an iterator and then continue it in another loop. |
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| 05:43 | <&Derakon> | Hey Vorn, do you remember what the magic function is to support the indexing operation in Python? |
| 05:44 | <&Derakon> | Oh, __getitem__, apparently. |
| 05:46 | < celticminstrel> | I usually look them up in the docs... <_< |
| 05:46 | <&Derakon> | Finding docs for those can be tricky. |
| 05:46 | <&Derakon> | I found this one by trying to index into an ad-hoc class and getting the exception to tell me what I was missing. |
| 05:48 | <~Vornicus> | the docs you need is "special method names" in the language reference. |
| 05:48 | <~Vornicus> | YOu also need to include __setitem__ and __delitem__ for those to work. |
| 05:49 | <&Derakon> | __setitem__ doesn't make sense in this context, and __delitem__ is covered more explicitly elsewhere. |
| 05:56 | <&Derakon> | Context: I have a class that is more or less a smart wrapper around set(). I want to be able to impose order on it as needed, so it has an optional sorting function, and an indexing function to look up items in that sorted order. |
| 06:02 | < Noah> | Huh, I seem to have discovered some kind of shift click and drag tile management |
| 06:17 | < Tarinaky> | Argh. I've gone to the effort to walk in to Uni to try to motivate myself to get work donw and I still cba. |
| 06:17 | < Tarinaky> | :/ |
| 06:21 | < Noah> | I'll probably have to do a study hall tomorrow too :\ |
| 06:30 | < Tarinaky> | I have this horrible feeling that I don't understand model/view/controller as well as I should. |
| 06:30 | | * Tarinaky goes frantically google. |
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| 06:32 | | * Tarinaky hates patterns because they're just so bloody obsfucating. |
| 06:32 | < Noah> | lol |
| 06:37 | < Tarinaky> | Fuck. |
| 06:37 | < Tarinaky> | I actually have no idea what I'm doing / |
| 06:37 | < Noah> | Find an adult! |
| 06:37 | < Tarinaky> | I've left it a bit late. |
| 06:37 | < Tarinaky> | It's the last day of term. :/ |
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| 06:42 | < Noah> | Tarinaky: That is not how you college |
| 06:43 | < Tarinaky> | You're right, it's well before the deadline. |
| 06:43 | < celticminstrel> | I have something due too soon as well... :/ |
| 06:44 | < Tarinaky> | No, really. |
| 06:44 | < Tarinaky> | I get several weeks after easter to finish this. |
| 06:44 | < Tarinaky> | It's just I need this out of the way so I can do my Maths revision. |
| 06:44 | < Tarinaky> | Because having this unfinished is eating at me. |
| 06:44 | < celticminstrel> | Oh. |
| 06:45 | < celticminstrel> | Mine's due early next week, if I recall correctly. |
| 06:47 | < Tarinaky> | I also can't find the bloody api docs for 'Controller' mentioned in this example... |
| 06:48 | < Tarinaky> | Or 'AbstractModel' mentioned in another. |
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| 06:57 | < Noah> | Wow, now that I discovered shift dragging in gnome, this is really easy |
| 06:57 | < Noah> | Tiling my windows that is |
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| 09:48 | <&McMartin> | Noah: ! |
| 09:48 | <&McMartin> | Opinion of GNOME: Now noticably increased |
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| 10:49 | | You're now known as TheWatcher[afk] |
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| 11:54 | < Tarinaky> | http://6.asset.soup.io/asset/3025/2278_0c70_500.jpeg |
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| 12:54 | <@Alek> | dude |
| 12:56 | <@Tamber> | Duuuuuude. |
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| 13:33 | < Tarinaky> | Dude. |
| 13:35 | < Reaper> | OMGLIEKD00D! |
| 13:47 | < Tarinaky> | Dude! |
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| 16:05 | < Noah> | Dood. |
| 16:06 | | * Vornicus throws an exploding penguin at Noah. |
| 16:07 | < Noah> | "Can I be the hero" is like the hardest fucking game on the PSP |
| 16:08 | < Noah> | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prinny:_Can_I_Really_Be_the_Hero%3F |
| 16:11 | < celticminstrel> | Sounds oddly like I Wanna Be The Guy. |
| 16:11 | < celticminstrel> | From the title alone. |
| 16:11 | | * celticminstrel didn't click the link. |
| 16:11 | < Noah> | I think it might be as hard |
| 16:12 | <@rms> | It gives you 1000 lives. |
| 16:12 | < Noah> | And it's all you get |
| 16:12 | <@rms> | You need them. |
| 16:12 | < Noah> | No |
| 16:12 | < Noah> | You NEED more |
| 16:13 | < Noah> | My hyperactive amphetimine salt dosed best friend still hasn't beaten it |
| 16:14 | < Noah> | In the second one, Etna's panties get raided |
| 16:15 | < Noah> | So it's obvious which country it comes from if by some mysterious bout of stupidity, you didn't before |
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| 16:18 | < celticminstrel> | I don't think that makes it obvious. :P |
| 16:18 | < celticminstrel> | Might give a hint, I suppose. |
| 16:18 | | * Noah tosses celticminstrel out a window and into a throng of Japanese school girls |
| 16:19 | < celticminstrel> | ... |
| 16:21 | < Noah> | throng, not thong |
| 16:24 | < celticminstrel> | ...yes, that's what you said. |
| 16:46 | < Noah> | Ah, now I remember why 64 bit Linux annoys me. There are no 64 bit versions of ZSNES |
| 16:50 | < celticminstrel> | What's wrong with BSNES? <_< |
| 16:51 | < Noah> | I can't get Terranigma to run in it |
| 16:51 | < celticminstrel> | Isn't ZSNES the one that's kind of a hack with all sorts of tweaks for common games? |
| 16:52 | < celticminstrel> | While BSNES was supposed to be all about accurate emulation, including the bugs? |
| 16:52 | < Noah> | It has hacks for many many games, even uncommon ones |
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| 16:52 | < Noah> | But I'm pretty sure accurate emulation of Terranigma isn't a black screen, which is all I'm getting at the moment |
| 16:52 | | Kindamoody|out is now known as Kindamoody |
| 16:53 | < celticminstrel> | Point. |
| 16:53 | < celticminstrel> | I dunno really. |
| 16:56 | < Noah> | Super Mario World won't even load, wtf |
| 17:01 | < celticminstrel> | On BSNES? |
| 17:01 | < Noah> | Yea |
| 17:02 | < celticminstrel> | Definitely something odd then, because I've played it on BSNES on the mac. |
| 17:21 | | * TheWatcher[afk] readsup |
| 17:21 | <@TheWatcher[afk]> | ... so compile zsnes from source? |
| 17:22 | < Noah> | TheWatcher[afk]: Well, I found a amd64 deb at http://ftp.debian.org/debian/pool/main/z/zsnes/ |
| 17:23 | < Noah> | gonna try that |
| 17:23 | < Noah> | And if that doesn't work, compiling will be my only choice |
| 17:24 | < Noah> | But allegedly even compiling zsnes is really annoying too |
| 17:31 | < Noah> | Well, the package depended on ia32-libs, but even after installing them, it still says they're missing, so I ran dpgk -x * zsnes64 on the deb, and ran the binary inside there, and it it segfaulted, so I ran it again with -ad sdl, and now it's running |
| 17:55 | < Noah> | Dungeon Dice Monsters is working well in VBA-M |
| 17:55 | < Noah> | Will need to setup MAME or something later |
| 18:09 | < Noah> | I think I'll experiment with making a class loader from yaml files later |
| 18:17 | < Noah> | Need to make a rom collection on DVD too later |
| 18:17 | < Noah> | Bah, and homework |
| 18:19 | <@ToxicFrog> | zsnes is kind of a nightmare internally because a lot of it is written in asm |
| 18:19 | <@ToxicFrog> | Also, what's wrong with snes9x, which has the virtue of actually being in most repos? |
| 18:19 | < Noah> | Yea, I think I remember reading about that somewhere |
| 18:19 | < Noah> | It's not in mine apparently? |
| 18:20 | <@ToxicFrog> | What distro are you on? |
| 18:20 | < Noah> | Mint Lisa |
| 18:21 | <@ToxicFrog> | I'm on Mint Katya and it has it |
| 18:21 | <@ToxicFrog> | ben@thoth ~ $ apt-cache search snes9x |
| 18:21 | <@ToxicFrog> | snes9x-gtk - GTK+ port of Snes9x - Super NES Emulator |
| 18:21 | <@ToxicFrog> | snes9x-x - X binaries for snes9x - Super NES Emulator |
| 18:28 | <@rms> | snes9x was giving me a bunch of issues last time I tried it, ended up installing 32bit zsnes on 64bit Arch |
| 18:29 | < Noah> | Yea, that only returns bsnes for me |
| 18:30 | < Noah> | I usually use both, because I got in that habit due to the fact that for the longest time, Sim Earth and Sim Ant's maps wouldn't show up right in zsnes |
| 18:30 | < Noah> | Woot! Pocoyo's on! |
| 18:33 | < Noah> | Lemme check the debian ftp |
| 18:34 | < Noah> | Doesn't appear to be there |
| 18:36 | < celticminstrel> | ...SimAnt was on SNES? |
| 18:36 | < celticminstrel> | And SimEarth? |
| 18:36 | < Noah> | Sure were |
| 18:36 | < Noah> | Sim Ant even worked with that stupid SNES mouse |
| 18:37 | < celticminstrel> | I had SimAnt for DOS and SimEarth for... Mac/Windows. |
| 18:37 | < celticminstrel> | Well, have. |
| 18:38 | < Noah> | I perfer Sim Ant on the SNES for it's cartoony feel |
| 18:39 | <@ToxicFrog> | Oh hell yes |
| 18:39 | <@ToxicFrog> | Wasteland 2 kickstarter hits $1.6M; Avellone and Fargo say that if they can get it up to $2.1M, Obsidian will co-develop. |
| 18:41 | < Noah> | Heh |
| 18:46 | < Noah> | See, I assumed that since Mint also uses Ubuntu, it'd be in Ubuntu's repo |
| 18:49 | < Noah> | I think it's in natty, I'll try adding that repo |
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| 18:53 | < Noah> | That seems to work |
| 18:57 | < Noah> | There we go, had to switch audio to SDL, or it was slow as all fuck |
| 18:58 | < Noah> | Run better than Zsnes, so I'll use it |
| 19:15 | | * ShellNinja makes a wishes on a shooting stars: to understand how DEMON MAGIC (wifi interference fields) work, so he can adjust the location of the adapters without so much trial and error. |
| 19:17 | < ShellNinja> | I also wish for adapters to have better sensitivity and error compensation. |
| 19:18 | < Noah> | I'm guessing you already changed channels? |
| 19:18 | < ShellNinja> | They are powerful enough to punch through several walls and metal roofs, givinng high upload speed, but suck at downspeed. |
| 19:18 | < ShellNinja> | Noah: I use whatever channels the access points use. |
| 19:18 | < ShellNinja> | Not much choice here. |
| 19:18 | < Noah> | Oh, right, hmm |
| 19:21 | | Kindamoody is now known as Kindamoody[zZz] |
| 19:22 | < Noah> | Certain floor varnishes have a metal component that can screw up signals, lol. Had to beg a guy once to humor me and move is router because he was blaming his modem for poor wireless signal :\ |
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| --- Log closed Sat Mar 31 00:00:17 2012 |