| --- Log opened Thu Mar 29 00:00:47 2012 |
| 00:08 | | You're now known as TheWatcher[T-2] |
| 00:14 | | You're now known as TheWatcher[zZzZ] |
| 00:33 | | Derakon[AFK] is now known as Derakon |
| 00:46 | | Attilla_ [Obsolete@Nightstar-737a2925.threembb.co.uk] has joined #code |
| 00:48 | | Attilla [Obsolete@Nightstar-c6df5028.as43234.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 121 seconds] |
| 01:05 | | Attilla_ [Obsolete@Nightstar-737a2925.threembb.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 121 seconds] |
| 01:17 | | * McMartin learns about http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/sysinternals/dd996900 |
| 01:17 | <&McMartin> | Yes Please (tm) |
| 01:22 | | * Tarinaky is developing a keen hatred for javadoc. |
| 01:23 | <@ToxicFrog> | Tarinaky: do they also have javadocs? |
| 01:24 | < Tarinaky> | Yes q.q |
| 01:27 | | cpux|2 is now known as cpux |
| 01:35 | <@Alek> | "I know an excellent joke about UDP, but you probably wouldn't get it." |
| 01:37 | <&McMartin> | "... but I don't give a damn if you get it or not" |
| 01:39 | <@Alek> | :P |
| 02:20 | | Kindamoody[zZz] is now known as Kindamoody |
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| 03:28 | | * Derakon tries to decide which fundamental verbs an Item has to support. |
| 03:28 | <&Derakon> | (That is, the base class from which more specific types of items derive). |
| 03:28 | <&Derakon> | So far all I have is that they have to be able to be picked up. |
| 03:33 | <~Vornicus> | throw |
| 03:33 | <&Derakon> | I guess the problem I'm running into is that most of the time you use an item to do something else. |
| 03:33 | <&Derakon> | As an indirect object they thus don't really fit so well into the verb registry I'm building. |
| 03:34 | <&Derakon> | Er, sorry, direct object. |
| 03:35 | <~Vornicus> | pick up, drop (the delicate vase needs code for that), throw, light, examine... |
| 03:35 | <&Derakon> | Examine is going to be farmed out to subclasses because how you examine a melee weapon differs from how you examine a potion. |
| 03:36 | <~Vornicus> | ...why? |
| 03:36 | <&Derakon> | Melee weapons need to display equipment bonuses and the like; potions have to display their effects when drunk. |
| 03:36 | <~Vornicus> | I mean, why doesn't that make you have at least a base one that works on anything? |
| 03:36 | <&Derakon> | Dur, yes, thank you. |
| 03:38 | <~Vornicus> | I mean hell, pretty much every verb you can think of will have to have a default response, even if that response is "nothing heamy results." |
| 03:39 | <&Derakon> | Heh. |
| 03:40 | | eckse [eckse@Nightstar-96751c89.dsl.sentex.ca] has joined #code |
| 03:40 | | mode/#code [+o eckse] by ChanServ |
| 03:52 | | Noah [noah@D5CC77.617194.5C9AE8.BDECC2] has joined #code |
| 03:52 | <&Derakon> | Hm, should I make a subclass Carrier of the Creature class that is able to pick up and drop items, or should I just add that ability to the base class and control its availability by a class bolean? |
| 03:53 | <&Derakon> | Er, boolean. |
| 03:56 | < Noah> | Dunno, any obvious benefits or caveats of one over the other? |
| 03:56 | | * Alek shrugs. |
| 03:57 | <&Derakon> | I'm leaning towards the boolean control method. |
| 03:57 | <&Derakon> | Mostly because I suspect that there are multiple such capabilities that I may want to composite into my classes in a non-hierarchical fashion. |
| 03:57 | <&Derakon> | And Python doesn't support multiple inheritance~ |
| 03:58 | <~Vornicus> | Yes it does. |
| 03:58 | <&Derakon> | Ahem. |
| 03:58 | <~Vornicus> | You just don't fucking want to. |
| 03:58 | <&Derakon> | When I write Python it doesn't~ |
| 04:01 | | Vash [Vash@Nightstar-cdeba41f.wlfrct.sbcglobal.net] has quit [[NS] Quit: I lovecraft Vorn!] |
| 04:02 | <@Alek> | heh. |
| 04:02 | | Noah [noah@D5CC77.617194.5C9AE8.BDECC2] has quit [Ping timeout: 121 seconds] |
| 04:02 | <@Alek> | in that case, BOOLEAN ALL THE THINGS. |
| 04:02 | | * Alek flrrd. |
| 04:04 | | Reaper [Z@Nightstar-3602cf5a.cust.comxnet.dk] has joined #code |
| 04:08 | | Rhamphoryncus [rhamph@Nightstar-5697f7e2.abhsia.telus.net] has quit [Client exited] |
| 04:08 | < ShellNinja> | DEMON MAGIC. |
| 04:09 | < Tarinaky> | Nyyyrgh. |
| 04:09 | < Tarinaky> | Trying to explain to a friend why his code is wrong and he should feel bad. |
| 04:09 | < ShellNinja> | During the night, automation did nothing, since the application's attempts were unsuccessful due to lack of association. But when I ^C manually for a few minutes and restart, it starts associating again. |
| 04:09 | <~Vornicus> | Bring him in here for a review~ |
| 04:10 | <&Derakon> | Bah, wx is giving me 71 as the keycode when I hit 'g' when it should be giving 103. |
| 04:10 | <&Derakon> | And no, shift is not depressed (71 is the keycode for 'G'). |
| 04:10 | <~Vornicus> | keycode isn't the same as ascii value. |
| 04:10 | < Tarinaky> | He's writing Java code in C++ |
| 04:11 | < Tarinaky> | It makes me cry because he really ought to know better than to dereference memory after he deallocates it. |
| 04:11 | < Tarinaky> | *deallocates it implicitly. |
| 04:11 | <~Vornicus> | Hooray, leaks |
| 04:14 | < Tarinaky> | He keeps saying it's because he doesn't understand C++ iterators and it's nothing to do with C++ iterators. |
| 04:14 | < Tarinaky> | It's the two lines before he even creates the iterator for his for-each loop. |
| 04:15 | < ShellNinja> | Hmm. I think I need to read and analyze the output I get from the application and have the script act appropriately, rather than just dumbly restart occassionally. |
| 04:15 | < ShellNinja> | How would I do that? |
| 04:15 | < Tarinaky> | Now he's having a go at me for not immediately remembering the intimacies of why what he was doing was wrong immediately. |
| 04:15 | < Tarinaky> | You know, when I haven't done C++ in years. |
| 04:16 | < Tarinaky> | Well, 2 years. |
| 04:16 | < Tarinaky> | >.> |
| 04:17 | < ShellNinja> | Well, I'm exaggerating no progress. Some progress was made. Just less than I expected. |
| 04:17 | < Tarinaky> | I keep stalling with my assignment. |
| 04:17 | < Tarinaky> | I don't want to do it. |
| 04:17 | < Tarinaky> | Basically. |
| 04:24 | | Noah [noah@D5CC77.617194.5C9AE8.BDECC2] has joined #code |
| 04:25 | < Noah> | So I gave in and installed the latest nvidia drivers, so the thinkvantage button fails to work again |
| 04:25 | < Noah> | However, Fn can be pressed by itself |
| 04:26 | < Noah> | So I bound that instead to Guake |
| 04:26 | | * Noah is a clever boy. |
| 04:30 | | eckse [eckse@Nightstar-96751c89.dsl.sentex.ca] has quit [Connection reset by peer] |
| 04:41 | < Tarinaky> | I just had an awesome thought but I have no idea if it'll work. Anyone here work at a Uni? |
| 04:41 | < Tarinaky> | Ideally a British one. |
| 04:41 | <&Derakon> | I work for UCSF. |
| 04:41 | < Tarinaky> | Not -strictly- code related but does relate to a CS degree scheme. |
| 04:42 | <&Derakon> | But I'm in the research area, not the class/student/etc. area. |
| 04:42 | < Tarinaky> | You know that I failed Physics and started CS+Maths at a different Uni right? |
| 04:42 | < Tarinaky> | I just realised that I actually passed 20 credits of C/C++ Programming while I was at Leicester. |
| 04:42 | < Tarinaky> | Any idea if it'd be possible for me to be able to use that to take different modules in my second year? |
| 04:43 | <&Derakon> | Uh, ask your advisor? |
| 04:43 | < Tarinaky> | ie: not have to do the C/C++ modules here and instead do something like AI or Vision or something... depending on timetable etc... |
| 04:43 | < Tarinaky> | Fair enough. |
| 04:43 | <&Derakon> | At least in the States you can often transfer units from one college to another. |
| 04:43 | < Tarinaky> | Trouble is I didn't transfer. |
| 04:43 | <&Derakon> | It's extremely common for people to take basic "groundwork" courses at community universities, which are cheap, and then transfer to an expensive uni for the upper coursework and degree. |
| 04:43 | < Tarinaky> | I had a course of study terminated and started a new one through a new UCAS application. |
| 04:44 | <&Derakon> | Again, ask your advisor. |
| 04:44 | < Tarinaky> | Okay. |
| 04:44 | < Tarinaky> | My academic tutor or somebody else? |
| 04:44 | <&Derakon> | Someone who knows the system where you're taking classes. |
| 04:48 | < Noah> | Tarinaky, Derakon: Have to keep in mind, not all colleges accept other colleges' credits |
| 04:48 | <&Derakon> | Yeah, I said you can "often" transfer. Not always. |
| 04:49 | < Noah> | Right |
| 04:49 | < Noah> | It's usually a good idea to ask ahead of time, but sometimes that's not always feasible |
| 04:50 | < Tarinaky> | Yeah, I know. |
| 04:50 | < Tarinaky> | I'm mostly hoping they can be counted as pre-reqs |
| 04:50 | < Tarinaky> | Rather than counting towards my actual degree. |
| 04:50 | < Tarinaky> | If that makes sense. |
| 04:50 | < Noah> | Tarinaky: Still doesn't hurt to ask |
| 04:51 | < Noah> | Cause then they could be like "totally", and you'd be all like "sweet!", and everyone would be all like "dude!", and your degree would be all like "schwing!" |
| 04:51 | < Noah> | Relatively speaking. |
| 04:52 | < Tarinaky> | As a joint hons. student I get to choose between C/C++ and Databases. |
| 04:52 | < Noah> | Lucky |
| 04:52 | < Tarinaky> | The AI and Computer Vision modules are supposed to be -really- good though. |
| 04:52 | < Tarinaky> | Hardly. I already lost 6-8 years of my life to C++ |
| 04:53 | < Tarinaky> | And databases is the retard option. |
| 04:53 | < Noah> | I wanted to do programming, but there wasn't enough butts to fill chairs for my school to justify keeping the course at my campus, so I'm in computer networking systems |
| 04:53 | < Tarinaky> | Really? Is this Uni or school? |
| 04:54 | < Noah> | ...technical institute? I think that falls somewhere at the level of a community college |
| 05:07 | < Tarinaky> | The American system's better in some ways because you don't 'belong' to a department and get more flexibility in modules. |
| 05:07 | < Tarinaky> | Unless I misunderstand it. |
| 05:10 | < Noah> | Everyone argues that someone else's grass is greener. I'm just happy to have grass. |
| 05:33 | | Reaper [Z@Nightstar-3602cf5a.cust.comxnet.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 121 seconds] |
| 05:37 | < Eri> | Fuck grass |
| 05:37 | < Eri> | Unsustainable |
| 05:37 | < Eri> | We've got a million varieties of wild grass, and what do we plant? |
| 05:37 | < Eri> | Kentucky Bluegrass |
| 05:38 | <&Derakon> | Hey, at least it's not dubstep. |
| 05:38 | < Eri> | Think that grows well where I'm from? Hell no. If you want nice grass, you have to water that shit, fertilizer, all that crap |
| 05:38 | | * Noah tosses Derakon out the window, then drops the bass. |
| 05:39 | < Tarinaky> | Eri: Why don't you plant something else? |
| 05:39 | < Eri> | I'd love to, but I'm not the one doing the planting. |
| 05:39 | < Eri> | It's everyone else's lawns |
| 05:39 | < Eri> | Get this: It's illegal to sneak out in the middle of the night and re-sod someone's land |
| 05:39 | < Eri> | Who knew? |
| 05:40 | < Tarinaky> | So why complain about your neighbours fertilising and watering their lawns? |
| 05:41 | < Eri> | It's wasteful. It's not their land, anyways |
| 05:41 | < Eri> | It's mine |
| 05:41 | < Eri> | They think it's theirs, because they own the title |
| 05:41 | < Eri> | But they're old |
| 05:41 | < Eri> | And they're gonna die soon |
| 05:41 | < Eri> | And I'm ready to call shotgun on it |
| 05:41 | < Noah> | Should we be concerned...about you? |
| 05:42 | < Eri> | No no, not at all. |
| 05:42 | < Tarinaky> | He only preys on the old and infirm. |
| 05:42 | < Eri> | I'm just saying, you know. As the future benevolent overlord, they're really renting the land from me |
| 05:42 | < Tarinaky> | We're safe, for now. |
| 05:43 | < Noah> | Hopefully |
| 05:43 | < Noah> | Unless I'm renting his car and he tries to off me |
| 05:52 | < Tarinaky> | I have successfully managed to do fuck all work all night. |
| 05:52 | < Tarinaky> | I am the worst at pulling all nighters ever. |
| 05:55 | < Noah> | Congrats. |
| 05:55 | < Tarinaky> | Stupid Java question: How do I get a reverse iterator? |
| 05:55 | < Tarinaky> | ie, if I want to do a for-each on a LinkedList... but I want to start with the last element. |
| 05:56 | < Tarinaky> | Because I know something about the list and know that only the tail elements meet some criteria. |
| 05:56 | < Tarinaky> | But I don't know how long the tail is. |
| 05:59 | < Tarinaky> | I understand that an actual for-each is a bad idea because there's no guarentee that it'll run in any particular order. |
| 05:59 | < Tarinaky> | But I can't see a reverse iterator :/ |
| 06:00 | < Noah> | If that was a stupid python question, I would probably know the answer to that |
| 06:00 | < Noah> | http://stackoverflow.com/questions/3962766/java-reverse-list |
| 06:00 | < Noah> | Found that |
| 06:01 | < Noah> | And this: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/1098117/can-one-do-a-for-each-loop-in-java-in -reverse-order |
| 06:02 | <&Derakon> | In python it would be "for item in itemList[::-1]" |
| 06:02 | <&Derakon> | Which is weird if you aren't familiar with list slicing syntax but is also an easy idiom to remember even if you don't. |
| 06:03 | < Noah> | list.reverse()? |
| 06:03 | <&Derakon> | Modifies the list. |
| 06:03 | <&Derakon> | foo = range(10) |
| 06:03 | <&Derakon> | foo.reverse() |
| 06:03 | < Noah> | Oh, sure does |
| 06:03 | <&Derakon> | # Note no output |
| 06:04 | < Tarinaky> | Apparently I want list.clone().reverse()... |
| 06:04 | < Tarinaky> | Except it's complaining that list.clone() doesn't have a reverse member. |
| 06:04 | < Tarinaky> | Maaasive :/ |
| 06:05 | < Tarinaky> | Also, I'm not sure this is better than what I'm trying to optimise out. |
| 06:05 | < Noah> | I always forget lists are mutable, hehe |
| 06:05 | | * Derakon tries to decide how best to handle this particular display issue. |
| 06:05 | < Tarinaky> | (The list is sorted and only the last elements are relevant to the problem...) |
| 06:05 | <&Derakon> | I have a display class to show the game state to the user. The idea being that this ought to be replaceable by other display classes as desiredr. |
| 06:05 | < Tarinaky> | But copying the -entire- list so that I don't have to iterate through the entire list? |
| 06:05 | < Tarinaky> | Wait. Wut. |
| 06:06 | <&Derakon> | (e.g. a 3D display, a curses display, a display with art instead of ASCII...) |
| 06:06 | <&Derakon> | That part's easy enough. |
| 06:06 | <&Derakon> | But I want to also have this include "show a list of options to the user and have them select one." |
| 06:07 | <&Derakon> | ...mm, I'm not articulating this well. Forget about it. |
| 06:14 | < Tarinaky> | Argh. |
| 06:14 | < Tarinaky> | Date returns an object with time in miliseconds. |
| 06:14 | < Tarinaky> | But I can't find anything to tell me how to get -just- the Date from that object. |
| 06:15 | < Tarinaky> | ie, rounded down to the nearest day. |
| 06:21 | | himi [fow035@D741F1.243F35.CADC30.81D435] has quit [Ping timeout: 121 seconds] |
| 06:24 | < Tarinaky> | Ahah! There's an equivalence between Date and long, so I can do some cool stuff easily. |
| 06:32 | < Tarinaky> | Aww, you -.- Debugging a null pointer exception in a test to realise it was because I hadn't implemented a method. |
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| 06:39 | | Derakon is now known as Derakon[AFK] |
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| 08:35 | < Noah> | http://hackaday.com/2012/03/28/building-the-worst-linux-pc-ever/?utm_source=feed burner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+hackaday%2FLgoM+%28Hack+a+Day%29&utm _content=Google+Reader |
| 08:35 | < Noah> | haha |
| 08:36 | < Noah> | 6 hours from power on to log in |
| 08:37 | <@rms> | Wow |
| 08:45 | < Noah> | http://hackaday.com/2012/03/21/doppler-effect-lets-you-add-gestures-to-your-comp uter/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+hackaday%2FLgoM +%28Hack+a+Day%29&utm_content=Google+Reader |
| 08:45 | < Noah> | I love when new ways with interactive with computers are made, especially when it's with hardware we've had for ages |
| 09:08 | | You're now known as TheWatcher |
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| 10:51 | | McMartin_ [mcmartin@Nightstar-3da07e5f.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #code |
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| 10:54 | < Tarinaky> | Noah: The length's some will go to for a Rasberry Pi :p |
| 11:03 | | Rhamphoryncus [rhamph@Nightstar-5697f7e2.abhsia.telus.net] has joined #code |
| 11:13 | | * TheWatcher swears massively at this code |
| 12:13 | < Tarinaky> | So. I might have a chance. But I think I'm going to have to blag heavily. Might see if I can goad them into doing the trick where they write an obscure operator on the board and ask me what it is |
| 12:13 | < Tarinaky> | Because I remember someone in #code did it... so I went and memorised the answer :p |
| 12:14 | < Tarinaky> | ->* -- haven't found a single instance of its use in code, or even a practical description but I know it's a pointer to the member of the generic instance/class rather than a particular instance. |
| 12:14 | < Tarinaky> | And I have you guys to blame for me knowing that >.> |
| 12:15 | < Tarinaky> | Err, not pointer... access to the... |
| 12:15 | < Tarinaky> | Anyway. |
| 12:15 | < Tarinaky> | I'm rambling. |
| 12:15 | | * Tarinaky goes and sips his coffee. |
| 13:24 | < Tarinaky> | Nyrgh. Listening to people talking about bad code makes me angry. |
| 13:24 | < Tarinaky> | >:( |
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| 14:12 | < Rhamphoryncus> | wtf is a "generic instance/class"? |
| 14:13 | < celticminstrel> | Not sure? |
| 15:05 | | You're now known as TheWatcher[afk] |
| 15:45 | <~Vornicus> | Rhamphoryncus: it may be an object that is used as a common prototype, in a prototype based language. Idunno? |
| 15:45 | <~Vornicus> | Context? |
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| 18:01 | | Tarinaky is now known as Atreus |
| 18:02 | | ShellNinja is now known as Number3 |
| 18:07 | < Noah> | I want a decent tiling window manager for gnome shell |
| 18:18 | | * gnolam read that as "tilting window manager" |
| 18:18 | | * gnolam needs sleep. |
| 18:19 | < gnolam> | That said, an accelerometer on the monitor wouldn't be a bad idea. |
| 18:20 | < gnolam> | Then you could make the computer respond when you smack the screen in rage. |
| 18:20 | < Noah> | Well, it's a laptop, and it already does that. It responds by halting the hhd platters. |
| 18:20 | < RichyB> | Noah, fwiw, some people use xmonad + gnome. |
| 18:20 | < RichyB> | I'm not one of them. |
| 18:20 | < Noah> | RichyB: I'm reading about that right now |
| 18:40 | | Noah [noah@D5CC77.617194.5C9AE8.BDECC2] has quit [[NS] Quit: Leaving.] |
| 18:44 | | Noah [noah@D5CC77.617194.5C9AE8.BDECC2] has joined #code |
| 18:45 | < Noah> | Look |
| 18:45 | < Noah> | This isn't hard gnome |
| 18:45 | < Noah> | I want you to |
| 18:45 | < Noah> | Not suck |
| 19:02 | | RichyB [MyCatVerbs@Nightstar-3b2c2db2.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 121 seconds] |
| 19:07 | < Noah> | So Linus ditched KDE when 4 hit and moved to Gnome. Then he ditched Gnome when 3 hit for Xfce. So who wants to go screw up Xfce and see where Linus goes next? |
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| 20:27 | < Noah> | Fuel injector in van is fixed now |
| 20:27 | < Noah> | Gotta find a rear wiper blade now |
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| 21:45 | < Noah> | It would take a desktop PC About 1 septemvigintillion years to hack your password |
| 21:45 | < Noah> | At 53 characters long, I would hope so |
| 21:48 | < Number3> | It would take approximately 10 minutes for a man with a gun to beat it out of you. :P |
| 21:48 | <@jerith> | Number3: A rubber hose is the traditional extractio ntool, actually. |
| 21:49 | < Noah> | Or oranges in a sock |
| 21:49 | < Number3> | Fascinating. Dare I ask for details? |
| 21:49 | <~Vornicus> | Hooray, rubber hose cryptanalysis |
| 21:50 | <@jerith> | Number3: A rubber hose applied enthusiastically to the soles of the feet obtains maximum password extraction with minimum visible damage. |
| 21:50 | < Noah> | The great thing is, if they did beat it out of me, and they would have to, they'd probably kill me for using BassDropsMoreFilthyThanMyCatsLitterBox4321WUBWUBWUB#! in the first place |
| 21:50 | <@jerith> | ... and now we don't have to. |
| 21:50 | < Noah> | oh shi- |
| 21:51 | <~Vornicus> | heee |
| 21:54 | <&McMartin> | Social engineering: the second fastest approach, and the one with the highest success rate~ |
| 21:55 | < Noah> | Indeed |
| 21:59 | | Reaper [Z@Nightstar-5aa18eaf.balk.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 121 seconds] |
| 22:01 | < Noah> | http://lifehacker.com/5893421/anonymous-releases-their-own-operating-system-comp lete-with-hacking-tools-galore - Update: The AnonOps Twitter account claims the OS is fake and full of Trojans, so our dis-recommendations stands. |
| 22:01 | < Noah> | hahaha |
| 22:10 | <@rms> | Huzzah! My avoidance of all things Debian has saved me again. |
| 22:11 | <@jerith> | Howso? |
| 22:11 | <@rms> | Read two lines up? |
| 22:11 | <@jerith> | Oh, that? |
| 22:12 | <@jerith> | How is its debianness relevant? |
| 22:12 | <@rms> | Ubuntu is Debian related. |
| 22:13 | <@jerith> | rms: Your logic there is equivalent to "my avoidance of pork-based foodstuffs has saved me from this rancid sausage". |
| 22:13 | <@rms> | I fail to see a fallacy there. |
| 22:13 | <@jerith> | You can avoid rancid sausages just fine while still enjoying all the goodness of bacon sandwiches. |
| 22:13 | < Noah> | Really? It was my "don't download things from Anon" avoidance that saved me |
| 22:14 | < Noah> | mmm, bacon |
| 22:14 | <@rms> | Bacon is tasty. |
| 22:14 | < Noah> | Fuck, now I'm hungry, god damn you jerith |
| 22:14 | <@jerith> | I quite like Debian, but I avoid most Debian-based distros. |
| 22:14 | < Noah> | I'm enjoying Linux Mint |
| 22:14 | <@rms> | Their entire package management system does nothing but induce rage in me. |
| 22:15 | <@rms> | Call me when the steps to make a package is something sane. |
| 22:15 | | Number3 is now known as ShellNinja |
| 22:15 | <@jerith> | Doesn't mint take Ubuntu and then go halfway back to Debian? |
| 22:15 | <@rms> | PROTIP: 16 steps is not sane. |
| 22:15 | <@jerith> | rms: Building debs is painful. |
| 22:15 | <@rms> | No shit. |
| 22:15 | < Noah> | jerith: I don't think so. It's compatible with Ubuntu repos |
| 22:15 | <@jerith> | However, the only sane rpm-based package manager I've seen uses apt metadata. |
| 22:16 | < Noah> | But I think it has some squeeze repos too, as well as it's own |
| 22:16 | < Noah> | And it's uses Mate, for those that want it, and has it's own set of extensions, which I admittedly disabled once I found alternatives for |
| 22:17 | <@rms> | Mate? |
| 22:18 | < Noah> | https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/MATE |
| 22:19 | < Noah> | http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2011/08/gnome-2-forked/ |
| 22:19 | < Noah> | First link doesn't actually say much about it |
| 22:19 | <@rms> | So a GNOME 2 fork. |
| 22:20 | < Atreus> | Why I'm a cock: |
| 22:20 | < Atreus> | Colleague: "You also get the great dave price analogies when describing how threads work" Me: " Like something that shares memory/context while executing with separate program counter and stack?" |
| 22:21 | < Noah> | rms: Yea, I don't think it'll last, but it's there for people who want it |
| 22:22 | < Atreus> | Or is peer a better word for it |
| 22:22 | < Atreus> | Meh |
| 22:23 | < Noah> | Atreus: Context determines the use of colleague over peer or similar wording |
| 22:23 | < Atreus> | Goes to the same Uni as me; in the same department. |
| 22:23 | < Atreus> | Not sure what year they are. |
| 22:23 | < Noah> | Colleague used begrudgingly then |
| 22:23 | < Atreus> | Fair enough. |
| 22:24 | < Atreus> | But I mean... That's the definition of a thread (vs say... a process) from what I remember. |
| 22:25 | < Atreus> | Disclaimer: I might be wrong in which case my cockishness is x3 |
| 22:25 | < Noah> | No one's correcting you, so you must be right |
| 22:25 | < Noah> | For example: |
| 22:25 | < Noah> | Perl is far more powerful than Haskell |
| 22:26 | <&McMartin> | INCORRECT, except for specific library support |
| 22:26 | < Noah> | See? I was wrong. |
| 22:26 | < Atreus> | I thought Haskell had awesome library support these days. |
| 22:26 | < Atreus> | Since all the cool kids used it. |
| 22:26 | <&McMartin> | It has pretty good library support, and a good FFI |
| 22:26 | < Noah> | Anyway, afk for a bit |
| 22:26 | | Atreus is now known as Tarinaky |
| 22:26 | <&McMartin> | But CPAN is gigantic. |
| 22:27 | <&McMartin> | If you want to run with a specific CPAN library, obvs. Perl will be better for that one thing. |
| 22:27 | <@jerith> | Atreus: The difference between "processes" and "threads" is that the latter share address space. |
| 22:28 | <@jerith> | (There are usually other differences dependign on implementation, though.) |
| 22:28 | < Tarinaky> | Isn't that what I said? |
| 22:28 | < Tarinaky> | That they share context? |
| 22:28 | < Tarinaky> | Or am I missing a distinction between memory, context and address space? |
| 22:29 | <@jerith> | (But consider Erlang processes. They're VM-level constructs (rather than OS-level constructs), but they don't share memory and are therefore not "threads".) |
| 22:30 | <@jerith> | Tarinaky: I'm not actually sure about the strict definitions of the terminology, but I think we both said pretty much the same thing. |
| 22:30 | < Tarinaky> | That's what I said as well! |
| 22:30 | <@jerith> | Although "context" usually means "CPU registers and such". |
| 22:30 | <@jerith> | Threads generally don't share that. |
| 22:31 | < Tarinaky> | Ah. I always thought context was heap and allocated objects. |
| 22:31 | < Tarinaky> | And that stack was 'registers and stuff'. |
| 22:31 | < Tarinaky> | Except context also includes hardware IO too. |
| 22:31 | < Tarinaky> | I -might- have made that definition up myself. |
| 22:32 | <&McMartin> | The hardware doesn't really have to care, conceptually |
| 22:32 | <&McMartin> | Though there may also be a "visible to your program" vs "visible to the OS" split |
| 22:32 | <&McMartin> | That can produce subtle errors, especially if the process knows about its threads but the OS doesn't |
| 22:32 | < Tarinaky> | When I say hardware IO I don't necissarilly actually mean a bit of hardware. |
| 22:32 | <&McMartin> | It's common there to have a thread block on I/O and have the OS freeze *all* the threads |
| 22:32 | <&McMartin> | Since it doesn't know that there could be some other work done |
| 22:33 | <@jerith> | Tarinaky: Switching between threads is a "context switch", which implies that each thread has its own context. |
| 22:33 | <@jerith> | Whatever a context is. |
| 22:34 | < Tarinaky> | But don't threads have seperate stack too? |
| 22:34 | < Tarinaky> | Or is that an implementation detail? |
| 22:35 | < Tarinaky> | Pretty sure that in OO land a context can mean an object though. |
| 22:36 | < Tarinaky> | Obviously the meaning of context is context sensitive. |
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| 22:53 | <@ToxicFrog> | On the topic of "context", in the context of processes/threads, IME that's generally understood to mean "process context" - security information, open file handles, etc |
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| --- Log closed Fri Mar 30 00:00:02 2012 |