| --- Log opened Fri Mar 02 00:00:39 2012 |
| 00:00 | < maoranma> | http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/List_of_Pok%C3%A9mon_by_base_stats |
| 00:01 | | Attilla [Obsolete@Nightstar-e3203e1b.as43234.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 121 seconds] |
| 00:02 | < maoranma> | Psuedo-legendaries are catchable (thus the psuedo part), thus they make really good pokemon to enter a team, but other pokemon are good too because they have the best possible base stat for a certain stat (ie, Blissy, with 255 in HP) |
| 00:03 | < maoranma> | The best total stat total belongs to Arceus though, with 720, 120 in each stat |
| 00:04 | < maoranma> | Legendaries with perfect IVs are extremely extremely rare, since you can't breed IVs on to them, and you can only catch them once, or get from an event |
| 00:05 | < maoranma> | For a kids game, pokemon is wildly complicated |
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| 00:06 | < Rhamphoryncus> | Sounds like japan |
| 00:07 | < maoranma> | Yes, true, the game is geared for a slightly older audience, and not much older, but kids typically are more advanced age for age in Japan compared to most places |
| 00:08 | < maoranma> | Whereas kids here don't care what IVs and such their mew has when they can just dance and shout about having a mew |
| 00:08 | < maoranma> | But competitive players (yes, there is competition, with age brackets) do care |
| 00:08 | < maoranma> | Thus why all this research went into the game's formulas |
| 00:10 | < gnolam> | Must... not... fall... to the lure... of... hard... sci-fi... |
| 00:10 | < maoranma> | Fuck hard sci-fi, where's my teleporter and emotional computers? |
| 00:11 | < gnolam> | (I just got yet another game idea.) |
| 00:11 | < maoranma> | Is it better than pokemon? |
| 00:13 | < gnolam> | From what I've seen of it, I'd say that almost anything is better than Pokemon. |
| 00:17 | < maoranma> | Is it sad that I perfer the ad Captcha's to the normal ones sense they're easier to read? |
| 00:18 | < maoranma> | since* |
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| 00:30 | <@Vash> | hm |
| 00:31 | <@Vash> | I think I'm just going to make the cake rectangular, and look for certain kind of fondant sheets or something. And hopeflly make a TARDIS cake for vorn's brother |
| 00:31 | <@Vash> | ifI can only find white, I can use my cake airbrush thingi |
| 00:31 | <@Vash> | hmm |
| 00:33 | < gnolam> | POOR IMPULSE CONTROL |
| 00:33 | | * gnolam starts drawing up a design document. |
| 00:33 | | * Vash sketches the cake idea on her drawnig pad |
| 00:33 | <@Vash> | if everything fails, I can draw any pokemon on the cake. I think |
| 00:33 | | * maoranma doodles on some graph paper nothing particularlly useful |
| 00:34 | < maoranma> | Draw a shiney Lopunny! |
| 00:34 | <@Vash> | ... or like, chibi him with a hockey puck about to hit something. or dunno |
| 00:34 | | * ToxicFrog deploys the crushing power of PARSER COMBINATORS |
| 00:34 | <@Vash> | o-o |
| 00:34 | | * Vash looks thorugh her online uploads to show maoranma, or something |
| 00:34 | <@Alek> | draw a 1st-gen pika. the player facing off against Wild Pika in PokeYellow. |
| 00:34 | <@Alek> | ?_? |
| 00:34 | <@Vash> | o_o |
| 00:35 | <&McMartin> | ToxicFrog: I can parse the radio output of the Kessel Run in 3.2 parsecs >_> |
| 00:35 | < maoranma> | http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/File:Spr_4p_428_s.png |
| 00:35 | <@Vash> | you realize taht if I did that, I'd try making it the hardest way possible? (... pixelated) |
| 00:35 | <@Alek> | http://www.consoleclassix.com/info_img/Pokemon_Yellow_Version_GBC_ScreenShot4.gi f |
| 00:35 | <@Alek> | ?_? |
| 00:35 | < maoranma> | Vash: make a deviant art and post cakes there |
| 00:35 | < simon_> | my first Android-app is a tamaguchi. |
| 00:35 | <@Alek> | I'm joking. mostly. :/ |
| 00:36 | <@Vash> | maoranma: I have flickr for cakes |
| 00:36 | < maoranma> | simon_: A well dress egg? |
| 00:36 | <@Vash> | although, some are fail- specially the zelda one I tried doing (it was like.. the first cake ever. and the cream was not coming out well at all) |
| 00:37 | < simon_> | maoranma, what's that? |
| 00:37 | <@ToxicFrog> | McMartin: snrk |
| 00:37 | <@ToxicFrog> | I still need to try Parsec someday |
| 00:38 | < simon_> | ToxicFrog, the Haskell library? |
| 00:38 | <@ToxicFrog> | Yes |
| 00:38 | < simon_> | it's pretty cool |
| 00:38 | <@ToxicFrog> | Which is what McM was reffing, I think |
| 00:38 | < maoranma> | simon_: A tamagotchi is an "egg watch", a tamaguchi is something you've dragging screaming into existence |
| 00:38 | <&McMartin> | Quite |
| 00:38 | <&McMartin> | Since it is a parser combinator system |
| 00:38 | < simon_> | maoranma, I didn't know there was a distinction. |
| 00:39 | < simon_> | maoranma, this one's a bot that poops and dies. |
| 00:39 | < maoranma> | There used to be this really neat Tamagotchi emulator for PC decades ago, I wonder if it's hosted anywhere |
| 00:39 | <@Vash> | maoranma: http://www.flickr.com/photos/cakethulhu/ |
| 00:40 | | * Vash NEEDS to make a cthulhu cake at some point. to live up to her flickr account name |
| 00:40 | < maoranma> | Cave Story cake is win |
| 00:41 | <&McMartin> | Cake Story |
| 00:42 | < maoranma> | pages of cakes *bookmarks for later* |
| 00:42 | <@Vash> | maoranma: http://www.flickr.com/photos/cakethulhu/5576339322/in/photostream |
| 00:42 | <@Vash> | I did that for vorn |
| 00:42 | <@Vash> | for valentines |
| 00:42 | <@Vash> | handmade =) |
| 00:43 | <@Vash> | inside: http://www.flickr.com/photos/cakethulhu/5598300705/in/photostream |
| 00:44 | <@Vash> | on the right sode of the image there was a message for him =3 |
| 00:44 | <@Vash> | side, even |
| 00:46 | < maoranma> | http://www.handheld.remakes.org/results.php?gamename=T |
| 00:46 | < maoranma> | Haha, it's stilly hosted |
| 00:46 | < maoranma> | Pheeraphat Sawangphian |
| 00:46 | < maoranma> | that's a mouthful |
| 00:47 | < maoranma> | Haha, it plays the cave story item get music |
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| 00:48 | | * Vash nods |
| 00:48 | <@Vash> | I bought a greeting card voice recorder and recorded that music |
| 00:48 | <@Vash> | er, sound |
| 00:49 | <@Vash> | it was a pain in the ass to make everything fit since the thing is made out of construction paper |
| 00:49 | <@Vash> | I was using transparent duct-ish tape |
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| 00:49 | < maoranma> | I think you can get card stock at most craft stores |
| 00:49 | < maoranma> | I used it for making D&D tokens |
| 00:50 | <~Vornicus> | Cardstock I got at staples. |
| 00:52 | < maoranma> | Aww, the simulator won't install, I guess that was a bit much to expect from a pre-win98 program |
| 00:53 | < maoranma> | Maybe I'll write one in python |
| 00:53 | < maoranma> | If I can ever figure out how to make borderless apps in python |
| 00:57 | <@ToxicFrog> | McMartin: over in #scala, I just learned - by total coincidence - that there is a Scala port of Parsec. |
| 00:57 | <@ToxicFrog> | And it is, indeed, named Kessel. |
| 01:13 | | Derakon[AFK] is now known as Derakon |
| 02:00 | <@ToxicFrog> | Blagh, my static typing is so rusty |
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| 02:06 | <&McMartin> | ToxicFrog: Ha ha ha ha, solid |
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| 02:26 | < gnolam> | ... and I see LibreOffice has taken after Word in the "won't look the same on two different computers" category |
| 02:35 | | * Vornicus sets about checking handedness on his code here. |
| 02:36 | | * gnolam makes a mental note to use the phrase "The left-handed PATH" when doing evil with environment variables. |
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| 02:47 | <~Vornicus> | Okay, handedness is correct. |
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| 03:39 | < maoranma> | Anyone used wxGlade? |
| 03:40 | <~Vornicus> | http://www.funkyhorror.net/vornicus/uznanski_earth.jpg have a thing |
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| 03:41 | < Stalker> | It's upside down. |
| 03:41 | <&Derakon> | No, you're upside-down. |
| 03:41 | < maoranma> | No, it's just shaped funny |
| 03:42 | < Stalker> | The shape is on purpose. |
| 03:42 | < maoranma> | The origin of that map would be the north pole |
| 03:42 | < maoranma> | I hate those maps though |
| 03:43 | <~Vornicus> | This map is designed to be uv-mapped back onto a sphere, but it works better than the standard method because it doesn't turn points into lines. |
| 03:44 | < maoranma> | I'm not familiar with uv-mapping |
| 03:44 | <&Derakon> | UV mapping maps textures onto 3D meshes. |
| 03:44 | < maoranma> | Hm |
| 03:44 | <&Derakon> | "UV" refers to the texture coordinates (u, v) just like (x, y, z) are realspace coordinates. |
| 03:44 | <~Vornicus> | I'm wrapping the image as a texture around a 3d model |
| 03:44 | < maoranma> | Yea, sort of like quake skins, back in the day |
| 03:44 | <&Derakon> | Quite. |
| 03:44 | <~Vornicus> | Pretty much, yeah |
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| 05:32 | <~Vornicus> | jesus, euler 60 really isn't amenable to solving quickly. |
| 05:37 | | * Derakon fires up his old code, determines that whatever his 060 program does, it's not terminating. |
| 05:37 | <&Derakon> | So either I never solved that one or I broke it afterwards. |
| 05:38 | <&Derakon> | Practically none of my Euler programs are usefully commented. |
| 05:43 | <~Vornicus> | I've been going through and improving that |
| 05:43 | <~Vornicus> | But this thing is befuddlingly hard |
| 05:46 | | * Derakon pulls up the problem description. |
| 05:46 | <&Derakon> | Yes, I could see how that would take awhile. |
| 05:53 | <~Vornicus> | By the time you're done you've done 4 million distinct primality tests, nearly all of them in the tens of millions and a great many in the billions, and built over 200,000 cliques. |
| 05:54 | <~Vornicus> | and I don't see how one might avoid any of them! |
| 05:55 | | * Derakon eyes his code, reworks it, leaves it to run for a bit. |
| 05:55 | <&Derakon> | Probably buggy, but we'll see. |
| 05:56 | <~Vornicus> | I just reworked mine; it takes ten minutes to find the solution now, which is ridiculous. |
| 05:56 | <&Derakon> | Basically generates permutations of indices into a list of primes, checks each pair to see if the concatenations are prime. |
| 05:58 | <&Derakon> | I suppose an optimization for mine would be to make certain when incrementing that you change one of the primes in the pair that failed the concatenation test. |
| 06:00 | <~Vornicus> | The old one was faster but made no sense. |
| 06:03 | <~Vornicus> | ...derp |
| 06:03 | <&Derakon> | Found an optimization? |
| 06:03 | <~Vornicus> | Yeah, I was including permutations of the clique values |
| 06:04 | <~Vornicus> | Doesn't improve primality test counts, but it does make it so I'm doing a lot fewer comparisons |
| 06:08 | <~Vornicus> | Takes about 3 minutes now, and ends up with about 30% as many cliques in the cache. |
| 06:10 | | * Vornicus gets an idea about a different path. |
| 06:25 | <~Vornicus> | gnah, that code stopped making sense |
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| 06:46 | <@jerith> | My code runs in about 3.6 seconds. |
| 06:47 | <@jerith> | Not entirely sure what it's doing, though. |
| 06:57 | <~Vornicus> | Yours is also I presume Haskell? |
| 06:57 | <@jerith> | Erlang. |
| 06:57 | <~Vornicus> | Ah, same vague concept |
| 06:58 | <@jerith> | I'm only up to 35 in Haskell. |
| 06:58 | | * Vornicus should actully get pypy running, see how much that improves it. |
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| 07:02 | <@jerith> | Problem 60 isn't even in my five slowest solutions. |
| 07:02 | <@jerith> | (It's number 6.) |
| 07:03 | <@jerith> | My slowest is problem 95 at nearly 15 seconds. |
| 07:03 | <~Vornicus> | It is and always has been my slowest. |
| 07:04 | <@jerith> | How are you doing the concatenation? |
| 07:06 | | * Vornicus checks. apparently string concat. |
| 07:06 | | * Vornicus fixes that. |
| 07:06 | | * Reiver arises from the depths of New Job. |
| 07:07 | | * Vornicus gives Reiver a funny hat. |
| 07:07 | | * Vornicus tries pypy on the one with string concat. |
| 07:08 | <~Vornicus> | Okay that takes, um, four times as much memory. |
| 07:08 | <@jerith> | pypy ftw. |
| 07:08 | <~Vornicus> | And isn't actually any faster |
| 07:09 | < Reiver> | pypy? |
| 07:09 | <~Vornicus> | pypy is a jit for python |
| 07:09 | <@jerith> | pypy is a Python implementation. In Python. |
| 07:10 | < Reiver> | I see. |
| 07:10 | < Reiver> | That sounds a tad recursive. |
| 07:10 | <@ToxicFrog> | Yeah, I thought pypy didn't do an jitting, it was just a recursive python? |
| 07:10 | <~Vornicus> | No, it jits. |
| 07:10 | <@jerith> | (Well, RPython, which is a restricted subset of Python suitable for implementing Python.) |
| 07:10 | < Reiver> | snrk |
| 07:10 | < Reiver> | Anyway, um |
| 07:10 | < Reiver> | VORN |
| 07:10 | <~Vornicus> | It's supposedly considerably faster than CPython, but, uh |
| 07:10 | <~Vornicus> | REIVER |
| 07:10 | < Reiver> | HALP |
| 07:10 | <~Vornicus> | HALP |
| 07:10 | < Reiver> | SQL VIEWS DO YOU SPEAK IT |
| 07:11 | <~Vornicus> | SQL VIEWS, MOTHERFUCKER, I SPEAK THEM |
| 07:11 | <@jerith> | pypy is actually slower than cpython for most things. |
| 07:11 | < Reiver> | They're putting me on an advanced SQL course it might be good to know the simple shit first! |
| 07:11 | <@jerith> | Until the JIT warms up. |
| 07:11 | <~Vornicus> | Yeah, it's not bearing out here. |
| 07:12 | <~Vornicus> | Reiver: know how to make a select statement? |
| 07:14 | <~Vornicus> | Hm... okay, switching from string to numerical concat helped |
| 07:14 | <~Vornicus> | not much, but it helped |
| 07:16 | <~Vornicus> | If so, you know how to make a view. |
| 07:16 | <~Vornicus> | Or very nearly |
| 07:20 | | * ToxicFrog flails at Scala, static typing, and Seq[A] |
| 07:21 | <~Vornicus> | http://sqlite.org/lang_createview.html <--- this is literally it. CREATE VIEW my_view AS SELECT ... |
| 07:22 | < Reiver> | OK but |
| 07:23 | < Reiver> | What are views for and why are they awesome? |
| 07:23 | <~Vornicus> | Views allow you to make commonly used select statements built into the database |
| 07:25 | <~Vornicus> | THis lets you optimize the query, lock down the actual table, and put all the logic for queries of that type into one place. |
| 07:30 | <~Vornicus> | If you've used Access, the "select" type queries in access are essentially views. |
| 07:33 | <~Vornicus> | Some common uses: A view can be used to "nice up" data for clients; I've got one on a database right now that takes a bunch of ID numbers in a link table and replaces them with names of the objects. |
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| 07:36 | <~Vornicus> | A view can be used to allow users to access only particular types of data, and only in particular ways: a forum database can use different users for admins and regular joes, and then the regular joes only get access to views that have what regular joes need to be able to access. |
| 07:36 | <~Vornicus> | Which prevents injection attacks that don't already have escalation |
| 07:38 | <~Vornicus> | And then you can put a really really complicated query into a view, and then people using the view don't need to know how complicated it up. |
| 07:40 | <~Vornicus> | s/up./is./ |
| 07:41 | <~Vornicus> | and now, bed. |
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| 14:38 | | * TheWatcher finally manages to trace what was killing Text::Wrap last night |
| 14:39 | <@TheWatcher> | Turns out that, in very specific situations, my code was tilling it to wrap to a non-integer number of columns. Rather than drop the fractional part, or complain about it, it simply tried to use it... and when everything hilariously broke, it just printed "This shouldn't happen". |
| 14:39 | <@TheWatcher> | *telling |
| 14:44 | <~Vornicus> | whups |
| 14:57 | <@jerith> | Nice. |
| 14:57 | <@jerith> | Text wrapping isn't really all that hard. |
| 14:57 | <@jerith> | Unless it's trying to do hyphenation and such. |
| 14:59 | <@TheWatcher> | Well, Text::Wrap can do it. It just doesn't document it very well. |
| 15:00 | <@TheWatcher> | (or, indeed, most of the other stuff it can do) |
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| 15:57 | <~Vornicus> | I should at some point get cython working. This involves getting a c compiler working. |
| 16:08 | <~Vornicus> | This involves figuring out what c compiler I should be using |
| 16:12 | <@jerith> | gcc |
| 16:18 | <@TheWatcher> | Vorn: which platform? |
| 16:18 | <~Vornicus> | windows. I wouldn't be asking otherwise |
| 16:20 | <@TheWatcher> | The latest MinGW+MSYS doesn't suck |
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| 17:14 | < maoranma> | I have a pully, what should I make? |
| 17:17 | < gnolam> | A pulley? A rubber chicken with it in the middle. |
| 17:18 | < maoranma> | ... |
| 17:18 | < maoranma> | It came off of a crown vic, I'm curious what I could do with it |
| 17:19 | < maoranma> | I kind of wonder what would happen if I put two weights on a rope and slung them over the pulley and let one drop higher |
| 17:19 | < maoranma> | I'd expect ocilliation, but for how long. |
| 17:36 | < maoranma> | Of course, that wouldn't really work unless the mass of the top mass changed one it reached the top |
| 17:48 | | * ToxicFrog throws caution to the winds, deploys mutable data structures, reduces the complexity of his parser by a factor of three |
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| 18:03 | | * Tamber is hit in the face by some wind-blown caution. |
| 18:38 | <@ToxicFrog> | Augh, why does StringBuilder need so much memory |
| 18:39 | <&McMartin> | Because reclaimed memory isn't brk()ed~ |
| 18:53 | | * maoranma scrapes some caution off his window |
| 18:54 | < maoranma> | damn windy today here |
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| 19:04 | <&McMartin> | Did you just throw it to the wind? |
| 19:04 | <@jerith> | No, plural. ALL the winds! |
| 19:05 | <@ToxicFrog> | McMartin: actually it's because a bug in my parser resulted in trying to StringBuild an infinite number of objects. |
| 19:05 | <&McMartin> | _o/ |
| 19:05 | <&McMartin> | Oh |
| 19:05 | <&McMartin> | That would definitely exacerbate the problem. |
| 19:20 | | * ToxicFrog prods RegexParsers with a stick |
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| 22:06 | <~Vornicus> | Maoranma: pulleys are not self-righting |
| 22:07 | <~Vornicus> | With equal weights you'll zero out the gravitational acceleration. |
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| 22:58 | <~Vornicus> | okay, let's see how to actually use cython |
| 22:58 | | * ToxicFrog huggles IDEA |
| 22:59 | <@ToxicFrog> | ME: I want you to turn this source tree into a jarfile. |
| 22:59 | <~Vornicus> | IDEA? |
| 23:00 | <@ToxicFrog> | IDEA: Sure thing, boss. Do you also want me to merge in all of its dependencies so you don't have to distribute all the scala runtime libraries alongside it? |
| 23:00 | <@ToxicFrog> | ME: ...sure! |
| 23:00 | <@ToxicFrog> | Vornicus: An IDE, primarily aimed at Java developers but with good plugins for Scala and Lua as well. |
| 23:01 | <~Vornicus> | aha |
| 23:01 | | celticminstrel [celticminst@Nightstar-5d22ab1d.cable.rogers.com] has joined #code |
| 23:03 | <@ToxicFrog> | The Scala plugin's JAR creator turns out be pretty sweet. |
| 23:06 | <@ToxicFrog> | The one catch is, well |
| 23:07 | <@ToxicFrog> | PID USER PR NI VIRT RES SHR S PU %MEM TIME+ COMMAND |
| 23:07 | <@ToxicFrog> | 24422 ben 20 0 1494m 770m 9484 S 3 39.2 60:13.99 java |
| 23:07 | <@ToxicFrog> | 24693 ben 20 0 1337m 126m 192 S 0 6.4 1:54.47 java |
| 23:07 | <~Vornicus> | Yeesh |
| 23:07 | <@ToxicFrog> | (one of those is IDEA itself, one is the Scala compilation server) |
| 23:07 | <@ToxicFrog> | (...fuck! Compilation server! I could run it on Orias! |
| 23:10 | | * ToxicFrog bonkbonkbonk his head against the desk |
| 23:10 | <~Vornicus> | ? |
| 23:12 | | * Vornicus removes checks of actually permuted candidate cliques, halves the amount of time required for euler60. |
| 23:12 | | * Vornicus checks for more silly optimizations. |
| 23:15 | <@ToxicFrog> | Oh wait, no I can't. Dammit. |
| 23:15 | <@ToxicFrog> | Vornicus: scala has two compilers, scalac (a stand-alone compiler) and fsc (the Fast Scala Compiler, a compilation daemon) |
| 23:15 | < celticminstrel> | What's the catch in the ps output? |
| 23:15 | <&McMartin> | 40% of RAM in use |
| 23:16 | <@ToxicFrog> | celticminstrel: look at the VIRT, RES, and %MEM values. |
| 23:16 | | * celticminstrel has no idea what VIRT and RES mean. |
| 23:16 | <~Vornicus> | A gig and a half of memory are committed to each of those two processes |
| 23:16 | <@ToxicFrog> | Total amount of memory claimed by the program, amount of actual physical RAM the program currently occupies |
| 23:17 | < celticminstrel> | m for megabytes or something? |
| 23:17 | <@ToxicFrog> | Yes. |
| 23:17 | < celticminstrel> | They should really use capital M. :/ >_> |
| 23:17 | <~Vornicus> | hm. technically, you'll only ever get numbers that are 1 mod 3 or 2 mod 3, in any individual clique |
| 23:18 | <@ToxicFrog> | Anyways, fsc is much faster than using scalac, but is also very memory-hungry (much of the speed comes from intelligent cacheing of build results) |
| 23:18 | <@ToxicFrog> | Then I realized, "it's a server! I can run it on Orias and submit build jobs remotely!" |
| 23:18 | <@ToxicFrog> | ...except, as it turns out, not really, because it can't receive source over the network |
| 23:18 | <@ToxicFrog> | You still need a shared filesystem. |
| 23:19 | <~Vornicus> | BUt that actually gets filtered out early anyway because my primality tester starts with trial divisions and my clique expander short-circuits |
| 23:23 | <~Vornicus> | And I memoize my pair tests of course. |
| 23:34 | < RichyB> | ToxicFrog, is your computer coal-fired or something? 1GB is microscopic in this day and age. ;) |
| 23:35 | <@ToxicFrog> | RichyB: it's a T61 laptop. |
| 23:36 | < RichyB> | That'll take up to 4GB, won't it? |
| 23:37 | <@ToxicFrog> | It'll take up to 4GB, but it only comes with 2GB. |
| 23:38 | <&McMartin> | 1GB isn't microscopic. |
| 23:38 | <&McMartin> | "a quarter of the 'large' default" isn't huge but it's not tiny. |
| 23:38 | <@ToxicFrog> | It's small enough that one can't feasibly run a Scala development environment in it, though~ |
| 23:38 | <@ToxicFrog> | 2GB is pushing it. |
| 23:39 | < RichyB> | ToxicFrog, $62 delivered -> http://www.crucial.com/store/mpartspecs.aspx?mtbpoid=CF56D76CA5CA7304 |
| 23:40 | < RichyB> | McMartin, no, you're right, "microscopic" was too strong a word. |
| 23:41 | < RichyB> | Still, burning 2GB of RAM isn't the end of the world on modern cheap laptops. (Since the ~$450 laptop models usually come with 4GB these days). |
| 23:41 | <@ToxicFrog> | RichyB: actually, one of my friends in KW has some spare 2GB SODIMMS, we just need to be in the same city at the same time |
| 23:42 | < RichyB> | Ah, fair enough. Otherwise I'd have to tell you that you're crazy to suffer with 2GB when going up to 4GB is so cheap. Er, assuming that you're not totally broke, of course. |
| 23:42 | < RichyB> | ;) |
| 23:43 | <@ToxicFrog> | I'm not broke but it's also hard to justify purchases for stuff that I don't need at present. |
| 23:44 | < RichyB> | To my mind, if you spend a reasonably large amount of time working with your computer then it's worth spending some money on making it fast enough that that time is pleasant. |
| 23:46 | <@ToxicFrog> | I spend a great deal of time on this but relatively little working in Scala specifically. |
| 23:46 | <@ToxicFrog> | And everything else I do fits comfortably in 2GB. |
| 23:46 | < RichyB> | Heck, if I were paying you to write software on that laptop then I'd buy the RAM on your behalf, expecting the productivity improvement from spending less time waiting for the machine to pay *me* back. |
| 23:47 | < RichyB> | s/^Heck, if/If/ |
| 23:47 | <@ToxicFrog> | (indeed, this is the first Scala work I've done since the Google shipwar competition) |
| 23:47 | < RichyB> | Aaokay, fair enough. |
| 23:47 | <&McMartin> | I should pick up my OCaml project again |
| 23:47 | < RichyB> | Aside from the RAM cost, how pleasant has it been so far? |
| 23:47 | <&McMartin> | OCaml is still kind of ;_; but it is so holyshitfast compared to all my other Functional languages ;_; |
| 23:48 | < RichyB> | (Significantly faster than GHC Haskell?) |
| 23:48 | <&McMartin> | (For what I've been doing, yeah; smaller startup time, and incremental compilation) |
| 23:48 | <&McMartin> | (Also, since I was adapting yacc code, turning that to ocamlyacc was much easier than recoding it in parsec) |
| 23:48 | <@ToxicFrog> | RichyB: very. I'm a big fan of the language, it's just the dev tools that give me grief. |
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| 23:49 | <@ToxicFrog> | (and the actual capabilities of the dev tools are nice, it's just the RAM footprint I have issues with) |
| 23:49 | < RichyB> | Sure. I think that there's a yacc equivalent for Haskell. |
| 23:49 | <&McMartin> | I bet, though, again, Haskell's whole-program only and that can get problematic. |
| 23:49 | < RichyB> | I don't know how closely it resembles yacc, though. It's either "Happy" or "Alex". |
| 23:50 | < RichyB> | Oh yeah it's "Happy". The program called "Alex" is the lexer generator. |
| 23:50 | <&McMartin> | yeah, ocamlyacc was so close I literally only had to change the semantic actions, and even that was usually just a matter of deleting stuff thanks to a carefully designed IR~ |
| 23:50 | <&McMartin> | The other problem with going Haskell of course is that it doesn't give me practice using ML's module tools~ |
| 23:50 | < RichyB> | Cool! Pretty much just replacing all the malloc() calls with calls to constructors? |
| 23:50 | <&McMartin> | Yeah |
| 23:51 | <&McMartin> | And removing the assignment bits |
| 23:51 | < RichyB> | Neat. Also, yes, GHC's compilation times aren't fantastic. |
| 23:51 | < RichyB> | I usually work through things in the REPL first, partly for this reason. |
| 23:51 | <&McMartin> | OCaml has a very fast bytecode system |
| 23:51 | <&McMartin> | Which is helpful |
| 23:51 | <&McMartin> | However, it does *not* have "derives Show", which makes some things that I'd like impractical~ |
| 23:51 | < RichyB> | Interestingly, GHC has a bytecode interpreter (which is not fantastic but is okay) but only uses it for interactive compilation in GHCi. |
| 23:52 | <&McMartin> | Yeah, ocamlrun is production-quality and insanely portable, the other reason I wanted it |
| 23:52 | < RichyB> | ^- I might have a couple of the fine details of that sentence wrong. |
| 23:52 | <&McMartin> | This is intended as an adjunct to Ophis. |
| 23:52 | < RichyB> | ToxicFrog, makes sense. Have you tried switching JVM? |
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| 23:53 | < RichyB> | Specifically, try a 32-bit JVM? Unless you are already running one. Halving the sizes of pointers everywhere might help. |
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| 23:53 | < RichyB> | Ophis? https://hkn.eecs.berkeley.edu/~mcmartin/ophis/ ? |
| 23:53 | <@ToxicFrog> | RichyB: way too much trouble. |
| 23:54 | <@ToxicFrog> | I have tried switching between OpenJDK and Sun, but on Sun the entire development environment randomly and frequently hangs, so fuck that noise. |
| 23:54 | < RichyB> | Yow. Harsh. |
| 23:54 | < RichyB> | Doh. I only just saw your email address on that page, McM. So yes of course you must mean that one. :) |
| 23:54 | <@ToxicFrog> | Oh, that reminds me |
| 23:55 | <@ToxicFrog> | I should check out scalac's CLR output mode |
| 23:55 | <@ToxicFrog> | See if I can generate windows binaries using that that don't require the end user to have a JRE installed |
| 23:55 | < RichyB> | There exists a scala-on-CLR? o_O |
| 23:56 | <@ToxicFrog> | Yeah, scalac can output either JVM or MSIL bytecode. |
| 23:56 | < RichyB> | I assume that you have to use a completely different set of libraries? |
| 23:57 | < RichyB> | Wait, ignore my stupid question. |
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| 23:58 | <@ToxicFrog> | I'm not sure how well it actually works, though |
| 23:58 | < RichyB> | Actually, considering the CLR, I am now wondering how pleasant F# on Mono would be for cross-platform development. |
| 23:59 | <&McMartin> | F# now bears about as much resemblance to OCaml as Racket does to Scheme, AIUI, but I've heard very little bad about it |
| 23:59 | < RichyB> | Pedantically, I mean targeting F#/Mono on the Unix-likes and F#/.NET on Windows. |
| --- Log closed Sat Mar 03 00:00:06 2012 |