| --- Log opened Sat Jan 28 00:00:30 2012 |
| 00:17 | | Derakon[AFK] is now known as Derakon |
| 00:17 | | * Derakon ponders rewriting Spacewar as a networked five-seconds-at-a-time Frozen Synapse-style game. |
| 00:17 | <&Derakon> | Would that even work? |
| 00:20 | <&Derakon> | Maybe if the weapons were more accurate (e.g. shotgun-style or homing missiles) |
| 00:21 | | Kindamoody is now known as Kindamoody[zZz] |
| 00:22 | <@ToxicFrog> | Derakon: Flotilla is basically that except in 3d. |
| 00:23 | <&Derakon> | Figures. |
| 00:24 | <@ToxicFrog> | So, yeah, it probably can, although it would also probably have to be more complex than "classic" spacewar |
| 00:25 | <&Derakon> | Yeah. |
| 00:25 | <&McMartin> | Flotilla also, IIRC, includes space pirate chickens |
| 00:25 | <&Derakon> | The thought was it should be possible to set traps for your opponent that they can see coming but cannot avoid because of their vector. |
| 00:26 | <&Derakon> | Hm, like, a weapon could be a cloaked mine, which waits ten seconds and then uncloaks and arms itself. |
| 00:31 | <&Derakon> | Laser beams -- zero spread, instant fire, stay out for some time, but low damage. |
| 00:32 | <&Derakon> | Shotgun -- significant spread, has travel time, good damage. |
| 00:32 | <&Derakon> | Homing missile -- slow, but tracks and has good damage. |
| 00:33 | <&Derakon> | Tractor beam -- large spread, instant fire, creates a gravity gradient. |
| 00:34 | <&Derakon> | What other kinds of weapons might make sense in this context? |
| 00:43 | <@maoranma> | Wow, DeviantArt basically reinvented IRC for dAmn |
| 00:44 | <&Derakon> | mn? |
| 00:44 | <@maoranma> | messaging network |
| 00:45 | <@maoranma> | But I mean it's almost basically IRC |
| 00:45 | <@maoranma> | Even the channels have # sigils |
| 00:45 | <&Derakon> | Are you sure they didn't just wrap IRC? |
| 00:46 | <&Derakon> | I'm practically certain that's how all MMO communications are done, for example. |
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| 00:47 | | mode/#code [+ao Derakon Derakon] by ChanServ |
| 00:48 | <&Derakon> | Sigh. |
| 00:48 | <&Derakon> | I've got to stop trying to close tabs in Firefox while actually having IRC in focus. |
| 00:50 | <@maoranma> | Derakon: It's very similar to IRC, but it isn't RFC |
| 00:53 | <@himi> | The IRC RFCs were only ever informational |
| 00:54 | <@maoranma> | Well sure, that's why we have so many new user modes, server modes, oper commands, etc |
| 00:54 | <@maoranma> | But connecting to damn through IRC requires a protol translation proxy |
| 01:05 | | * Vornicus fiddles with Galactic Frontiers, determines how flexible precisely they made it. |
| 01:17 | <&McMartin> | ocamllex: actually pretty boss |
| 01:19 | <~Vornicus> | (to wit: there are half a dozen things that any particular planet can develop, and all of them are actually optional in game setup.) |
| 01:19 | | * Derakon ponders a game where you play as the characters in a board game. |
| 01:19 | <&Derakon> | And every once in awhile a giant hand reaches down and rearranges your world. |
| 01:19 | <~Vornicus> | Pffff |
| 01:20 | <&McMartin> | Well, there's Waterloo World... |
| 01:20 | <@maoranma> | Damnit, I want to play a space game. |
| 01:20 | <&Derakon> | Not quite the same thing, McM, since the "actual game" of Waterloo was not really a game. |
| 01:21 | <&Derakon> | More like a series of surmountable challenges to get Fred off his ass and actually willing to try to succeed again. |
| 01:27 | | mode/#code [+o cpux] by maoranma |
| 01:36 | <~Vornicus> | Der: Archon?~ |
| 01:38 | <@ToxicFrog> | maoranma: what kind? |
| 01:42 | <~Vornicus> | I mean, there's KSP, Wing Commander, Galcon, AI War, Sword of the Stars... |
| 01:42 | <@maoranma> | Any really. I really like EVE, but I don't have money for it, lol, and it wouldn't run well on my laptop's GPU. |
| 01:43 | <@maoranma> | I like open sandbox kind of things |
| 01:43 | <~Vornicus> | Escape Velocity (though the questing is either too weak or too strong, imo) |
| 01:44 | <&McMartin> | For strong questing, there's Star Control 2. |
| 01:44 | <~Vornicus> | Transcendence. Try that one out, it might be up your alley. |
| 01:45 | <@ToxicFrog> | maoranma: X3: Terran Conflict is probably closest to what you want |
| 01:46 | <~Vornicus> | I still need to try the X games |
| 01:46 | <~Vornicus> | The last time I tried I couldn't get it to run at all. |
| 01:46 | <~Vornicus> | (iirc I tried 2) |
| 01:46 | <@ToxicFrog> | Failing that, perhaps one of the Evochron games, or on the 2d side of things, Space Rangers 2: Reboot, Escape Velocity Nova or, for a more roguelikey flavour, Transcendence. |
| 01:46 | <@ToxicFrog> | Vornicus: honestly, X3TC is the only one worth playing at this point, and by now it may be worth waiting for the next one. |
| 01:47 | <~Vornicus> | (if you do try EVN, do Not accept a trade mission to Earth) |
| 01:47 | <@maoranma> | Roguelikey? |
| 01:47 | <@maoranma> | Now that sounds a little interesting |
| 01:47 | <@ToxicFrog> | (really, X3TC is the first one I would even consider recommending; the first four games are good in concept but basically unplayable due to the UI) |
| 01:47 | <@ToxicFrog> | (and I play Dwarf Fortress) |
| 01:48 | <~Vornicus> | Transcendence is very roguelikey; many of its concepts are direct analogues of roguelike concepts.) |
| 01:48 | <@ToxicFrog> | maoranma: a randomly generated sequence (or, with mods, graph) of randomly generated star systems loosely connected with an overarching goal. |
| 01:48 | <@ToxicFrog> | With randomly generated items and enemies. |
| 01:48 | <@maoranma> | Hmmm |
| 01:48 | <@maoranma> | I might be okej with that |
| 01:48 | <@ToxicFrog> | It's also fairly moddable; I recommend at minimum getting a mod that lets you switch ships or a mod that lets you assemble a fleet or both. |
| 01:48 | <@ToxicFrog> | And it's freeware, unlike the rest of these recommendations. |
| 01:49 | <@maoranma> | And I do like not having to pirate |
| 01:49 | <@ToxicFrog> | That said, it's sandboxy in the same way, say, Nethack is, which is to say, not very. |
| 01:50 | <@ToxicFrog> | ...and now I want to play Space Rangers 2 again. |
| 01:50 | <@maoranma> | Well, nethacky is quite sandbox, it's just not a wideopen world, like Minecraft say |
| 01:50 | <@ToxicFrog> | I think we have different definitions of "sandbox" |
| 01:51 | <@maoranma> | No, I just have several definitions of sandbox |
| 01:51 | <&Derakon> | Regarding the EV series, Escape Velocity Override was the best of the bunch, but sadly the total conversion mod for EVN to turn it into EVO doesn't work properly because of changes to the underlying engine that can't be modded. |
| 01:51 | <&Derakon> | (E.g. the creator of EVO very finely balanced the Confed and Voinian battleships to tie against each other despite using completely different weapons, while he set up an RPS system with the Strand races; both are screwed up in the mod) |
| 01:54 | <&Derakon> | Even disregarding those balance issues, though, it's still superior in terms of design to EVN. |
| 01:54 | <&Derakon> | Just not as pretty. |
| 01:55 | <@maoranma> | I'll take gameplay over pretty, as long as the UI isn't violently bad |
| 01:56 | <@ToxicFrog> | Derakon: I dispute that on the grounds of FUCK GRINDING |
| 01:57 | <&Derakon> | ...oh, yeah, grinding for combat rating / faction status. I forgot about that. |
| 01:58 | <&Derakon> | (And credits) |
| 02:03 | <&Derakon> | Though, grinding for credits can be subverted once you get enough power to take on the Adzgari warships, IIRC |
| 02:03 | <&Derakon> | They had several million apiece. |
| 02:05 | <@ToxicFrog> | Yeah, it's the CR and faction I object to. |
| 02:05 | <@ToxicFrog> | "Congratulations on completing this mission! Now go kill randomly spawning enemies for six hours if you want another one." |
| 02:06 | <&Derakon> | That miiiight also have been screwed up by the new engine. |
| 02:06 | <&Derakon> | Since IIRC the EVO engine combined crew size (i.e. difficulty of ship capture) with combat rating boost, while they got split and the formula got shuffled for EVN. |
| 02:06 | <&Derakon> | More importantly, though, my favored method of grinding CR in EVO got broken because of the aforementioned combat balance changes. |
| 02:07 | <&Derakon> | Used to be you could hang out in Confed border systems and gank Voinians at the ends of big fights. |
| 02:07 | <@maoranma> | Was the combat fun? |
| 02:08 | <~Vornicus> | I liked it. |
| 02:08 | <&Derakon> | Ehh, the AI's of the "fly straight at the player and fire everything" but it worked well enough. |
| 02:08 | <@maoranma> | Because I don't grinding if the actual grind is fun. Just ask my Hunter on WoW. |
| 02:08 | <&Derakon> | Keep in mind these games were made in the 90s. |
| 02:08 | <@maoranma> | don't mind* |
| 02:09 | <&Derakon> | Anyway, off to game night. |
| 02:09 | | Derakon is now known as Derakon[AFK] |
| 02:18 | <@ToxicFrog> | Derakon[AFK]: possibly; I wouldn't know, as given the choice of (a) grind for hours or (b) pirate and install the original game and work my way back to that point to see if it's still that bad, I went with (c) uninstall the game forever. |
| 02:54 | <~Vornicus> | ...huh, they have Deadlock. |
| 02:57 | <@Alek> | audiophile forum. theme: how to remove words (vocals) from an mp3 song. comment: "I read somewhere. Convert the audiofile to word format and cut out the words. Then convert it back, and voila." |
| 02:57 | <@Alek> | Vorn: ? |
| 02:57 | | * Vornicus isn' |
| 02:57 | <@maoranma> | lol, troll |
| 02:57 | <~Vornicus> | Deadlock is a 4x |
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| 02:59 | <~Vornicus> | You battle other races to control a planet, and can build cities in various regions. |
| 03:01 | <@Alek> | ah. righto. |
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| 06:10 | | Kindamoody[zZz] is now known as Kindamoody |
| 06:14 | <@maoranma> | Is there an overlay library for python? |
| 06:14 | <&McMartin> | You mean like proto-DLLs or something else? |
| 06:14 | <@maoranma> | No, I mean like screen overlay, like OSD |
| 06:15 | <@ToxicFrog> | Um |
| 06:15 | <@maoranma> | There's something called Enso, which was this really neat windows program launcher |
| 06:15 | <@ToxicFrog> | For YUV overlays, or for OpenGL/Direct3D rendering contexts, or...? |
| 06:15 | <@maoranma> | But the company making it got swallowed up by Mozilla |
| 06:17 | <@maoranma> | I mean like launchy any things like that |
| 06:17 | <@ToxicFrog> | AFAIK, Launchy isn't an overlay, it's a styled window. |
| 06:17 | <@maoranma> | Styled window, that then |
| 06:19 | <@ToxicFrog> | (overlay/OSD generally means "I have some existing program, I want to display additional information inside it" - for example, ATITrayTool has an OSD you can enable to display framerate information in openGL and direct3d games) |
| 06:19 | <@ToxicFrog> | (Launchy is just a normal program window, just with custom appearance) |
| 06:19 | <@maoranma> | True, but it works like an OSD |
| 06:20 | <@ToxicFrog> | As in you can invoke it inside other programs? |
| 06:20 | <@maoranma> | Yes, and in that it doesn't show anything on task bar, and doesn't stick around on the desktop |
| 06:21 | <@ToxicFrog> | "doesn't show anything on task bar and doesn't stick around on the desktop" is also a common property of windows programs. |
| 06:21 | <@maoranma> | Oo, launchy has a pythong plugin, neat |
| 06:21 | <@ToxicFrog> | (other programs that do this: anything that runs "in the system tray", winamp with certain options set, Steam ditto) |
| 06:21 | <&McMartin> | (Anything that can't be arsed to open a window and isn't linked console, really) |
| 06:22 | <@maoranma> | Semantics aside, is there something like that for python |
| 06:22 | <@maoranma> | I was thinking about some kind of python clone of Launchy/Enso |
| 06:23 | <&McMartin> | Good widget toolkits should make this possible |
| 06:23 | <&McMartin> | Just make sure you invoke with pythonw.exe |
| 06:23 | <&McMartin> | (a .pyw extension should ensure this) |
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| 13:41 | < gnolam> | Kindamoody: ... wait, liu.se? |
| 13:41 | <@Kindamoody> | lol |
| 13:42 | <@Kindamoody> | Yeah... I wondered when you'd find out. ^^ |
| 13:44 | < gnolam> | Stalker!!!1ONE |
| 13:44 | <@Kindamoody> | What? O_o |
| 13:45 | < gnolam> | ;) |
| 13:45 | < gnolam> | Attending Ragnemalm's game jam, or what are you doing there /now/? |
| 13:47 | < gnolam> | It's Saturday! |
| 13:49 | <@Kindamoody> | The game jam, yup! Are you here too? :P |
| 13:50 | | * Kindamoody feels like this is a small world... o_o |
| 13:50 | < gnolam> | Nah. Didn't even know about it until yesterday. |
| 13:50 | < gnolam> | Heh. |
| 13:51 | < gnolam> | (And by that time I had already passed the Ballmer peak, so... ;)) |
| 13:51 | <@Kindamoody> | Ballmer peak? |
| 13:51 | < gnolam> | http://xkcd.com/323/ |
| 13:52 | <@Kindamoody> | Hahaha, get your butt here and try to catch it on the way down! xD |
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| 13:55 | < gnolam> | Nah. I have drinking to do. And a gig at [HG]. |
| 13:55 | < gnolam> | Here in town just for the jam? (If not, then yes... freaky small world.) |
| 13:56 | | * gnolam wanders off to buy audio cassettes and Amiga 500 cables. |
| 13:56 | <@Kindamoody> | I live just 8 km from liu, and I've lived in this city all my life (or just outside). |
| 15:35 | < gnolam> | ... freaky |
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| 19:52 | <~Vornicus> | Hey, has pygame been superceded by something, or is it still the one to use? |
| 19:52 | <~Vornicus> | (I note it hasn't been updated since 2009) |
| 19:56 | <@ToxicFrog> | I've been seeing Pyglet tossed around a lot, but I'm not sure to what extent it's a replacement for Pygame. |
| 19:56 | <@ToxicFrog> | That said, I'm pretty sure SDL hasn't been updated in a while either, so it may just be that pygame hasn't needed updates. |
| 19:56 | <@ToxicFrog> | (ok, it probably needs to be updated to python3 at this point, but apart from that) |
| 19:57 | <~Vornicus> | (it looks like it hasn't been fully updated to 2.7, nor to 3) |
| 19:57 | <~Vornicus> | the only build for 2.7 is listed as alpha. |
| 19:57 | <@ToxicFrog> | Aah. |
| 19:57 | <@ToxicFrog> | In that case maybe it is dead! |
| 19:58 | <~Vornicus> | THis besads me. |
| 20:04 | | maoranma [maoranma@Nightstar-5d9e9fed.pools.spcsdns.net] has joined #code |
| 20:10 | < maoranma> | Okay, finally some time to try Transendance |
| 20:21 | | Derakon[AFK] is now known as Derakon |
| 20:28 | | * Vornicus installs the alpha anyway. Here's hoping it's got enough to it to handle my work |
| 20:28 | <&Derakon> | From personal experience, binding libraries hasn't changed that much in 2.7 vs. 2.6. |
| 20:29 | <&Derakon> | In fact, the only difference I could notice for my work was that I had to use a different compiler to build against the 2.7 binary libraries. |
| 20:29 | <&Derakon> | So I suspect the alpha will be fine. |
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| 21:01 | < maoranma> | Hello again Firefox |
| 21:03 | < maoranma> | At least it has a gopher plugin |
| 21:08 | <@jerith> | pygame 1.9.1 is fine. |
| 21:08 | | * jerith used it very successfully a few months ago for pyweek. |
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| 22:48 | <~Vornicus> | Okay, where the hell was I. |
| 22:48 | <~Vornicus> | Oh, I was writing multiple-knot-insertion. |
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| 23:07 | < maoranma> | I thought the point was to get the knots out |
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| 23:13 | <~Vornicus> | heh |
| 23:17 | < Eri> | Hmm. Wish I'd spent more time learning Matlab, last semester |
| 23:17 | < Eri> | I don't remember the syntax I'm trying to use. Some vectorized form of a while loop, or something |
| 23:20 | <@ToxicFrog> | I'd offer to help, but matlab |
| 23:34 | < Eri> | Well, FreeMat, actually |
| 23:34 | < Eri> | But, anywhoo, it works, now. Not very graceful, but it'll get me all of the marks |
| --- Log closed Sun Jan 29 00:00:46 2012 |