| --- Log opened Wed Jan 25 00:00:35 2012 |
| 00:23 | | gnolam [lenin@Nightstar-202a5047.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [[NS] Quit: Z?] |
| 00:38 | < maoranma> | Nevermind, I figured out a different way |
| 00:56 | < maoranma> | http://pastebin.com/5PKk4TsL |
| 00:57 | | * McMartin attempts to set the "debogsettings", has apparently turned into a Jaeger |
| 01:26 | | Derakon[AFK] is now known as Derakon |
| 01:51 | | Kindamoody[zZz] is now known as Kindamoody |
| 01:55 | <~Vornicus> (python2 had raw_input; python3 does not, but input works like raw_input did.) |
| 02:06 | | * Derakon eyes the Angband devs. |
| 02:07 | <&Derakon> One of them recently changed monster AC to reduce incoming damage instead of reducing the player's chance to hit. |
| 02:07 | <&Derakon> This of course required changing the AC values for all 500+ monsters, since the old values would be ludicrously big. |
| 02:07 | <&Derakon> But apparently he didn't realize that if you give an early monster an AC of 2, then that means that any character with a dagger will deal no damage half the time. |
| 02:07 | <&Derakon> Bog-standard centipedes were requiring 12 rounds of combat to kill. |
| 02:08 | <&Derakon> Oh, well... |
| 02:10 | <@Alek> | ahaha |
| 02:17 | < maoranma> | Hehe |
| 02:35 | | Attilla [Obsolete@Nightstar-d968f105.as43234.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 121 seconds] |
| 03:22 | <@ToxicFrog> | Google? Awesome. |
| 03:23 | <@ToxicFrog> | Also they have Robo-Rally. Respect. |
| 03:23 | <&McMartin> ? |
| 03:30 | <&Derakon> I'm guessing this was that "invite you over to play games" thing? |
| 03:34 | <~Vornicus> Nice. |
| 03:39 | <@ToxicFrog> | No, actually, it was the "invite me to the spacewar tournament" |
| 03:39 | <@ToxicFrog> | But I got to peek into the games room |
| 03:39 | <@ToxicFrog> | (my bot placed 12th out of 34) |
| 03:40 | <@ToxicFrog> | Here it is: https://sites.google.com/site/shipwars2012/ |
| 03:44 | <&Derakon> You had an hour and a half to write your bot? |
| 03:45 | <@ToxicFrog> | Yep. |
| 03:45 | <@ToxicFrog> | And of course five minutes after finishing it I thought of two major improvements I could have made~ |
| 03:47 | <&Derakon> Naturally. |
| 03:50 | <@ToxicFrog> | Still, I'm pretty happy with how that went |
| 03:50 | <@ToxicFrog> | And it was hella fun |
| 03:52 | <@ToxicFrog> | (the approach I used was to stay out of weapon range until I had a full rack of torpedos ready, then divert power to weapons, close to knife-fighting range, and fire them in a shotgun spread - hoping for an instant kill if the target doesn't dodge, and damage even if they do) |
| 04:05 | | Derakon is now known as Derakon[AC2] |
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| 04:38 | | Derakon[AC2] is now known as Derakon |
| 04:45 | < maoranma> | ToxicFrog: I don't understand, what is ship wars? |
| 04:45 | < maoranma> | Also, what did you write your ship in? |
| 04:50 | <@ToxicFrog> | maoranma: a simple 2d deathmatch game. Each player is a ship; actions are rotate left/right <angle>, accelerate to <speed> (the faster you're going, the weaker your weapons are) and fire torpedo at <angle> |
| 04:50 | <@ToxicFrog> | The goal is to write an AI for such a ship that will do well in a round robin against everyone else's AIs. |
| 04:50 | <@ToxicFrog> | And I wrote mine in Scala (using the Java version of the library) |
| 04:51 | < maoranma> | Can it see? |
| 04:51 | < maoranma> | Kind of reminds me of corewars |
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| 04:57 | | Kindamoody is now known as Kindamoody|nap |
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| 05:23 | <@ToxicFrog> | maoranma: sure, hang on |
| 05:25 | <@ToxicFrog> | maoranma: https://gist.github.com/e40043c026918bc60a20 |
| 05:26 | <&Derakon> It sounds like the game is basically Spacewar with AI and no planet. |
| 05:26 | <@ToxicFrog> | Yes. |
| 05:26 | <@ToxicFrog> | Although the torpedo/engine mechanics are Netrek-inspired. |
| 05:27 | <@ToxicFrog> | Really, all of the physics are more Netrek than Spacewar; there is, for example, friction, so if you're not under thrust you'll slow down and stop. |
| 05:31 | <&Derakon> That also sounds like the kind of game that could be whipped together really quickly. |
| 05:31 | <&Derakon> I mean, the physics are dead simple, and all you really have to do is define an API -- turn left, turn right, accelerate, shoot, get positions, orientations, and healths of other ships. |
| 05:32 | <&Derakon> Leave the rest to the players. |
| 05:32 | <@ToxicFrog> | Well, yeah, a bunch of googlers hacked it together in their spare time |
| 05:32 | <@ToxicFrog> | And then ran three internal tournaments to get it to the point that they were comfortable letting outsiders use it |
| 05:33 | <@ToxicFrog> | The whole point is to be simple but fun; this isn't ICFP here. |
| 05:34 | <&Derakon> Heh. |
| 05:34 | <&Derakon> Which is also, presumably, why you only get an hour and a half to write your AI> |
| 05:34 | <&Derakon> . |
| 05:35 | | * Derakon idly wonders if there'd be some way to make a Python implementation that could limit the amount of instructions each player could execute between frames. |
| 05:35 | <&Derakon> Of course, "tight" coding in Python is a bit of a silly concept. |
| 05:35 | <&Derakon> You don't want to encourage your players to all write C modules after all. |
| 05:37 | <@ToxicFrog> | The current implementation here is just "if you haven't replied by the time the server executes the next tick, too bad" |
| 05:38 | <&Derakon> Yeah, that's the easy way to do it. |
| 05:38 | <@ToxicFrog> | There's no limit to the number of commands you can issue in one tick, though. |
| 05:38 | <@ToxicFrog> | Although if you do multiple conflicting commands (eg: turn to 0 degrees, turn to 90 degrees) only the last has any effect. |
| 05:38 | <&Derakon> I'm thinking of RoboWar here, where all of the AIs were written in a special language and API calls all cost a certain amount of notional cycles to execute. |
| 05:39 | <&Derakon> So you could balance out different weapons by making them harder to fire, for example. |
| 05:41 | | * ToxicFrog nods |
| 05:41 | <@ToxicFrog> | There's also Core War, where everyone is written in redcode and each program executes one instruction per turn. |
| 05:41 | <&Derakon> Yeah. |
| 05:41 | <@ToxicFrog> | In this case, all timing is realtime. |
| 05:42 | <@ToxicFrog> | You get one torpedo every 4 seconds up to a maximum load of 3, for example. |
| 05:42 | <&Derakon> IIRC RoboWar also had a point-buy system, so you could buy a faster CPU, or better shields, etc. |
| 05:42 | <@ToxicFrog> | There's a hard cap on how fast your ship can rotate, or how fast it can shift power between engine and weapons. |
| 05:43 | <&Derakon> ...ooh, game idea: instead of ships, you fly a planet about. |
| 05:44 | <&Derakon> There's your planet, the enemy planet, and a wrecking ball planet. |
| 05:44 | <&Derakon> And you try to crash the wrecking ball into your opponent. |
| 05:44 | <&Derakon> Via gravity. |
| 05:44 | <&Derakon> Of course this would require an approximation to solving the three-body problem. |
| 05:44 | <@ToxicFrog> | So...Solar 2, then~ |
| 05:45 | <&Derakon> Nothing new under the sun. :( |
| 05:45 | <@ToxicFrog> | Well, to be fair, Solar 2 isn't multiplayer |
| 05:45 | <@ToxicFrog> | This would be much harder to AIify, though |
| 05:45 | <&Derakon> Yeah. |
| 05:45 | <&Derakon> That was part of the point. |
| 05:45 | <&Derakon> "What do AIs have a problem with? Well, calculus would make things harder." |
| 05:45 | | eckse [eckse@Nightstar-352640df.dsl.sentex.ca] has quit [Connection reset by peer] |
| 05:46 | <&Derakon> (And calculus would be required to figure out a position as a function of time when objects are accelerating) |
| 05:46 | <&Derakon> You could also lay massy but harmless mines. |
| 05:46 | <&Derakon> Or shoot them. |
| 05:47 | <@ToxicFrog> | That kind of takes it out of the scope of "90 minute project with no planning time", though |
| 05:47 | <&Derakon> Granted. |
| 05:47 | <&Derakon> I wasn't thinking of this being a game you'd write an AI for necessarily. |
| 05:47 | <&Derakon> More like a remix of Spacewar. |
| 05:53 | <@ToxicFrog> | Aah |
| 05:54 | | * ToxicFrog slep |
| 05:54 | <&Derakon> Night. |
| 06:02 | <@jerith> | maoranma: I'm here now. |
| 06:04 | | Kindamoody|nap is now known as Kindamoody |
| 06:04 | < maoranma> | How about that, so am I |
| 06:06 | < maoranma> | That was odd, I cut some text, and it replaced it with some chinese character :\ |
| 06:06 | < maoranma> | Anyway: http://pastebin.com/5PKk4TsL <- How does that look jerith? |
| 06:13 | <@jerith> | "halt"? |
| 06:14 | <@jerith> | I suppose it kills the program with a NameError... |
| 06:15 | < maoranma> | No... halt stops the loop, is it giving you an error? |
| 06:18 | < maoranma> | Well, break actually does that |
| 06:18 | <@jerith> | It's never reached. |
| 06:18 | < maoranma> | Strange, halt doesn't give me an error |
| 06:18 | <@jerith> | Because "return" is just before it. |
| 06:18 | < maoranma> | Ah |
| 06:19 | < maoranma> | So I don't even need them |
| 06:19 | <@jerith> | Indeed. |
| 06:19 | | * Derakon writes up a quick numerical approximator to gravity, gets results of either absolutely no motion or of things getting too close and whipping past at nigh-infinite speeds. |
| 06:19 | <&Derakon> Bah. |
| 06:20 | < maoranma> | Because return is "give this to whatever called me then break" |
| 06:21 | < maoranma> | But otherwise it looks sane, maybe even mildly competent? *sheepish grin* |
| 06:24 | <@jerith> | "return" means "return from this function call", which stops whatever execution flow was happening. |
| 06:25 | < maoranma> | Right, sometimes you might not even need to return something |
| 06:25 | <@jerith> | Would it make sense to return from a function but still somehow be in the middle of some loops in it? |
| 06:27 | <@jerith> | Returning a value from a function is mandatory. However there is an implicit default of "None". |
| 06:28 | < maoranma> | Hmm, I'm not sure if there would ever be a reason to return in the middle of a loop |
| 06:28 | < maoranma> | "None" as a string? Or like mIRC $null? |
| 06:29 | <&Derakon> None is the Pythonic null object. |
| 06:29 | <&Derakon> Generally the only thing you do with it is to test if an object is None. |
| 06:29 | <&Derakon> (That is, "if foo is None: do something else: do something else") |
| 06:29 | < maoranma> | Right |
| 06:30 | < maoranma> | I use null commonly in mIRC scripting, to santize inputs or check for lack thereof |
| 06:30 | < maoranma> | sanitize* |
| 06:31 | < maoranma> | So that's a concept I'm used to |
| 06:31 | < maoranma> | I had to look up Inf though |
| 06:32 | < maoranma> | I was trying to figure out how to handle the left and right comparison, and was trying to figure out what I could use for the last upperbound |
| 06:33 | < maoranma> | I think in mIRC I would just input+1, that way whatever is entered will always be less. |
| 06:33 | < maoranma> | So Inf is kind of handy |
| 06:35 | <&Derakon> I generally use None for initializing min/max values. |
| 06:37 | < maoranma> | None instead of Inf...? |
| 06:37 | <&Derakon> And then test if the value is None and initialize it if so. |
| 06:37 | <&Derakon> for value in values: if minVal is None: minVal = value else: minVal = min(value, minValue) |
| 06:38 | < maoranma> | Hmm |
| 06:38 | <&Derakon> Inf might be more elegant here. *shrug* |
| 06:38 | <&Derakon> Anyway, I'm for bed. G'night. |
| 06:38 | | Derakon is now known as Derakon[AFK] |
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| 06:41 | < maoranma> | Yea, me too I think, 7am is so early |
| 06:41 | | * jerith just got up and is heading to work. |
| 06:43 | | Rhamphoryncus [rhamph@Nightstar-5697f7e2.abhsia.telus.net] has quit [Client exited] |
| 06:43 | < maoranma> | Well, it's 01:42:59 here, lol |
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| 08:34 | | You're now known as TheWatcher |
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| 09:12 | <@TheWatcher> | I generally ike perl; it doesn't get in the way when I want to do things, it is powerful, can be written well, and generally lets me get the job done quickly. However, I'm seriously tempted to email Larry Wall himself to complain about shit like "Use of uninitialized value $foo in string ne at (eval 25) line 67." |
| 09:13 | <@TheWatcher> | s/;/:/ |
| 09:17 | <@Tamber> | When "line 67" is a bloody great multiline thing? |
| 09:20 | | * Tamber looks at Shuttleworth's "Introducing the HUD" thing. |
| 09:20 | <@Tamber> | ...oh what the hell? |
| 09:20 | <@TheWatcher> | Oh, worse |
| 09:21 | <@TheWatcher> | I have no idea where that line 67 is. It's somewhere in '(eval 25)' |
| 09:21 | <@Tamber> | ...oh. |
| 09:21 | <@Tamber> | Oh dear. |
| 09:21 | <@jerith> | Tamber: That's a move in the right direction, but it certainly doesn't couteract the speed with which they're moving in the /wrong/ direction. |
| 09:21 | <@TheWatcher> | Even better - as far as I can tell, that's /somewhere/ in a module that CGI.pm has loaded |
| 09:22 | <@jerith> | I've been looking at the appmenu stuff recently, because I've just installed Ubuntu on my netbook and I keep getting hit by it. |
| 09:22 | <@Tamber> | jerith, it's... I don't think I can quite find the words to describe how stunningly /awful/ that looks to use. |
| 09:22 | <@jerith> | It's horrible. It's a really nasty hack. |
| 09:22 | <@jerith> | Tamber: It actually probably isn't all that bad to use. |
| 09:22 | <@jerith> | I certainly prefer it to menus. |
| 09:22 | <@Tamber> | I also like how he's not got the window maximised; presumably because if he did, y'wouldn't be able to see any of your document because of that ridiculous menu. |
| 09:23 | | gnolaptop [lenin@Nightstar-34baf1bf.eduroam.liu.se] has joined #code |
| 09:23 | <@Tamber> | s/you/his example/ Switching into theoretical mode, it seems |
| 09:24 | <@Tamber> | ...oh, buggerit, y'know what I meant. |
| 09:24 | <@jerith> | Tamber: That ridiculous menu only appears when you ask for it. |
| 09:24 | <@TheWatcher> | Yey, tablet interfaces ¬¬ |
| 09:24 | <@Tamber> | jerith, I know that. |
| 09:25 | | * TheWatcher is just going to stick with E16, maybe 17 when then work out the kinks, thank'ee |
| 09:25 | <@Tamber> | *shrug* I just think it's stupid to cover up your entire document with an obnoxiously huge 'menu' that seems to be more empty space and "look at how pretty I am :D" crap than actual menu. |
| 09:26 | <@Tamber> | I suppose it works on a tablet, or something similar, where you're using a finger to use the menus. |
| 09:26 | <@TheWatcher> | Well, you're only ever doing one thing at a time anyway, so it's not like it matters |
| 09:26 | <@TheWatcher> | ~ |
| 09:26 | <@jerith> | You know what's really obnoxious? |
| 09:26 | <@jerith> | The notifications crap. |
| 09:27 | <@jerith> | You can't make them go away. You can't configure them in any way. You can hover your mouse over them to dim them a bit. |
| 09:28 | <@Tamber> | So typical Ubuntu, then? "You're not allowed options, you'll only hurt yourself" |
| 09:28 | <@Tamber> | (Or typical Gnome, rather.) |
| 09:28 | <@jerith> | Yup. |
| 09:31 | <@Tamber> | TheWatcher, so far, I'm not so keen on e17. |
| 09:31 | <@TheWatcher> | It has yet to convince me, certainly |
| 09:32 | <@TheWatcher> | It feels a bit faster than 16, but comes with a lot of stuff I turn off. |
| 09:32 | <@Tamber> | Yeah, it's a bit faster and has a little more pretty; but it feels a lot more painful to configure and tweak than e16 is. |
| 09:33 | | * jerith has been using awesome wm on the netbook recently. |
| 09:33 | <@Tamber> | (And y'can't just bypass the configuration dialogue and manually edit the config files because they're just binary dumps of the internal data structures, I think.) |
| 09:36 | <@TheWatcher> | (besides, as far as I know, nobody has yet ported the DAE theme to e17, which makes me sad) |
| 09:47 | | * Tamber hms |
| 09:55 | | * TheWatcher hums also, in harmony |
| 10:00 | | * gnolaptop adds some bass. |
| 10:19 | | * jerith whips out his trombone. |
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| 14:11 | < maoranma_> | Haha, left my phone at home, so my laptop is still connected |
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| 16:05 | < mao42ranma> | werp derp |
| 16:07 | <@Tamber> | herplederp |
| 16:07 | < mao42ranma> | We're going over scope in class |
| 16:11 | | * TheWatcher fingertappity, tries to decide between Stonebridge Park or Hampstead Heath, hrms |
| 16:12 | < froztbyte> | maoranma: that can be both good and bad |
| 16:13 | < froztbyte> | bad if you leave some automatic stuff open |
| 16:13 | < froztbyte> | XHR and pagerefreshes seriously burn data |
| 16:14 | <@Ling> | Speaking of page-refeshes, anyone know how to make DeviantArt not do that? or even why it does that? |
| 16:18 | | * TheWatcher mehs, goes for Stonebridge as it leaves open the option of an overland double-back |
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| 16:34 | < mao42ranma> | Class over, see everyone at home |
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| 17:33 | < Rhamphoryncus> | Long have I suffered under the repressive MDI of gedit. Can anybody suggest a good, basic editor to replace it as my default? |
| 17:33 | <@ToxicFrog> | How basic are we talking here? |
| 17:33 | <@ToxicFrog> | And what do you dislike about gedit? |
| 17:33 | < Rhamphoryncus> | I dislike the MDI |
| 17:34 | <@ToxicFrog> | You dislike...the fact that it exists? Some specific aspect of it? |
| 17:34 | < Rhamphoryncus> | MDI=tabs |
| 17:34 | < gnolam> | "The software is too big to attach here, I'll send it by regular mail." o_O |
| 17:34 | < maoranma> | Emacs. |
| 17:34 | < maoranma> | Vim |
| 17:34 | < Rhamphoryncus> | I open something in one workspace, fine. I open in another workspace.. and it doesn't open there. When I do go to the window I can't use ctrl-w to exit |
| 17:34 | <@Tamber> | ed. |
| 17:35 | < Rhamphoryncus> | I want an editor that is not full of suck. Decent UI please |
| 17:35 | < maoranma> | WINE and use MS notepad, I don't know |
| 17:35 | | mode/#code [+ooooooooooooo ShellNinja Attilla Reiver froztbyte cpux Tarinaky Red_Queen Kazriko maoranma gnolam EvilDarkLord Rhamphoryncus Namegduf] by Tamber |
| 17:35 | <@ToxicFrog> | Yes, I know MDI means tabs, I'm asking what you dislike about them |
| 17:35 | <@ToxicFrog> | And "decent UI" covers a lot of things |
| 17:35 | <@Rhamphoryncus> | I just explained what I don't like about MDI |
| 17:35 | <@ToxicFrog> | I mean, I like JEdit, but it's a tabbed editor, so apparently you would hate it |
| 17:35 | <@Tamber> | For some people, ed /is/ the only decent UI. |
| 17:36 | <@Tamber> | (But they can't reach the mouse because their beard has is holding their right hand to the keyboard) |
| 17:36 | <@ToxicFrog> | Anyways, |
| 17:36 | <@TheWatcher> | write your own? ¬¬ |
| 17:36 | <@ToxicFrog> | Invoke gedit with 'gedit --new-window' |
| 17:36 | <@ToxicFrog> | There you go. |
| 17:36 | <@Rhamphoryncus> | ToxicFrog: that fixes the new window but not the ctrl-w |
| 17:36 | <@Rhamphoryncus> | I used to do that with totem.. until they removed that option |
| 17:36 | <@gnolam> | (They could've just been given 0access to our internal site. Or it could've been uploaded to any number of places. Oh well.) |
| 17:37 | <@gnolam> | -0 |
| 17:37 | <@ToxicFrog> | Aah. |
| 17:37 | <@Tamber> | gnolam, this means you're getting a tape reel in the post, doesn't it? :p |
| 17:37 | | Kindamoody|out is now known as Kindamoody |
| 17:37 | <@maoranma> | Or several flash sticks |
| 17:37 | <@ToxicFrog> | (why are you using ctrl-W as exit anyways?) |
| 17:37 | <@gnolam> | Nah, it means the radiation safety authority is. |
| 17:38 | <@maoranma> | His mouse has rabies |
| 17:38 | <@Rhamphoryncus> | It's much quicker to position my hand on ctrl-w than to position my mouse on the little x |
| 17:38 | <@ToxicFrog> | I mean as opposed to ctrl-Q |
| 17:39 | <@ToxicFrog> | Which actually means "quit" in most apps, whereas ctrl-W is pretty much universally "close tab" |
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| 17:39 | <@TheWatcher> | ;.; |
| 17:39 | <@gnolam> | Oh well. It's a field where conference papers are required to be in .doc format. |
| 17:40 | <@TheWatcher> | Except in emacs. So I find myself closing tabs when trying to cut text >.< |
| 17:40 | <@Rhamphoryncus> | ctrl-w is close window, thus the w. It's been subverted into closing tab. Mind you, that's actually good in firefox, where closing the last tab will close the window. gedit just sits there and looks at me funny. |
| 17:40 | <@gnolam> | (Nope, not making that up. That's how IRPA/NSFS rolls.) |
| 17:40 | <@ToxicFrog> | Ok, but since you actually want to quit, that's what you should be telling it to do, no? |
| 17:40 | <@ToxicFrog> | Anyways, for recommendations of other actual editors - JEdit can be configured to be tabless but is far from "basic". |
| 17:41 | <@ToxicFrog> | Ditto xemacs/gvim |
| 17:41 | <@Rhamphoryncus> | No, if I have other windows open I don't want them to close. I just want to close this one. |
| 17:41 | <@Ling> | Not really, why should it stay open while empty? |
| 17:41 | <@Ling> | Also editors I've used in the past: pnotepad, tea, scite |
| 17:41 | <@ToxicFrog> | Um |
| 17:41 | <@ToxicFrog> | Did you actually try it? |
| 17:41 | <@ToxicFrog> | They're separate instances@ |
| 17:41 | <@ToxicFrog> | ! |
| 17:41 | <@ToxicFrog> | Ctrl-Q will quit that gedit, not every gedit process on the system |
| 17:42 | <@Tamber> | Ling, /just in case/ you want to open another file. |
| 17:42 | <@ToxicFrog> | IDEA is wonderful but is also a fully-featured IDE |
| 17:42 | <@Rhamphoryncus> | regarding basic: this is for text editing (and viewing README's), not programming. Programming is another discussion |
| 17:42 | <@TheWatcher> | 1. Download gedit source code. 2. add code to the handler for ctrl+W so if tabs = 1 it quits instead of closes. 3. compile code. 4. ??? 5. profit. |
| 17:42 | <@ToxicFrog> | NEdit was great ten years ago but is unmaintained now |
| 17:42 | <@ToxicFrog> | TheWatcher: actually I think there's already an "enhanced tabs" plugin for it that adds that |
| 17:43 | <@Rhamphoryncus> | ToxicFrog: so it's different than other apps like firefox. I just have to reprogram my brain to use the correct variant each time. It's bad enough in vlc :/ |
| 17:43 | <@TheWatcher> | heh, fair enough (I've used gedit about once, so I wouldn't really know) |
| 17:43 | <@ToxicFrog> | Rhamphoryncus: wait, quitting firefox quits every firefox instance? |
| 17:43 | < celticminstrel> | VLC? What has that got to do with this? |
| 17:43 | <@ToxicFrog> | Or is it that there's only one firefox instance and it spawns new windows as needed? |
| 17:43 | <@Rhamphoryncus> | my current behaviour is ctrl-w ctrl-w ctrl-w then finally ctrl-q |
| 17:43 | <@ToxicFrog> | TheWatcher: I don't really use it either |
| 17:43 | <@Rhamphoryncus> | Only one instance |
| 17:43 | <@Ling> | There's one FF process. |
| 17:43 | <@Rhamphoryncus> | Same as totem and by appearance the same as gedit |
| 17:44 | <@ToxicFrog> | Really, I'm not the right person to ask about this; I don't have an intermediate editor between nano and IDEA |
| 17:44 | <@Ling> | It gets bitchy if you try to make more than one attach to the same X server (which is retarded) |
| 17:44 | | * TheWatcher waves his emacs flag, so *shrug* |
| 17:45 | <@Rhamphoryncus> | In fact there's only one gedit instance as well, it just happens to use ctrl-q as close-window rather than quit |
| 17:45 | <@Rhamphoryncus> | (despite labelling it quit.. this is fucking confusing.) |
| 17:46 | <@maoranma> | I think it's great that Aerosnap puts windows side by side, but the preview pane it on the side of an explorer window, so they need to be stacked on top of each other, which requires a thirdparty utility, aquasnap |
| 18:17 | <@Rhamphoryncus> | scribes is showing promise. The lack of menubar is odd, but otherwise it seems sane |
| 18:33 | <@maoranma> | Maybe I don't need windows explorer. I wonder if there are any good shells for Windows 7 |
| 18:34 | <@ToxicFrog> | I used litestep for a while, but got tired of configuring it |
| 18:34 | <@ToxicFrog> | Also |
| 18:34 | <@ToxicFrog> | <maoranma> Hmm, I'm not sure if there would ever be a reason to return in the middle of a loop |
| 18:35 | <@ToxicFrog> | "find the first element in this collection satisfying P" is fairly common operation and is implemented straightforwardly in this manner. |
| 18:37 | <@maoranma> | Hmm, yea, that's true |
| 18:38 | <@maoranma> | And I guess I should've been more clear. I'm not looking for a shell replacement, I meant in the linux since. Something that is command-liney but gives me good features |
| 18:38 | <@maoranma> | sense* |
| 18:38 | <@TheWatcher> | Cygwin!~ |
| 18:38 | <@maoranma> | gah, no |
| 18:39 | <@Ling> | unix-utils |
| 18:39 | <@maoranma> | I mean like Windows Powershell |
| 18:39 | <@Ling> | It'll give you zsh |
| 18:39 | <@maoranma> | But not crappy |
| 18:39 | <@Ling> | + a bunch of core-util stuff |
| 18:39 | <@Ling> | That one git thing will give you bash |
| 18:41 | <@maoranma> | unix-utils looks interesting |
| 18:43 | <@maoranma> | Ah |
| 18:43 | <@maoranma> | Shell was the wrong word |
| 18:43 | <@maoranma> | I mean Console |
| 18:44 | <@maoranma> | And apparently there's one on SF *downloads... |
| 18:44 | <@maoranma> | ...slowly* |
| 18:45 | <@maoranma> | At least this isn't as bad as my 14.4k days |
| 18:52 | <@ToxicFrog> | If you want something smaller than Cygwin but more complete than unxutils - with rxvt and bash and whatnot - check out MSYS |
| 18:52 | <@ToxicFrog> | I generally go straight to Cygwin, though |
| 18:53 | <@ToxicFrog> | ...although, now I'm confused as to what you actually want |
| 18:53 | <@maoranma> | So am I :\ |
| 18:53 | <@maoranma> | I want... not... Windows Explorer. |
| 18:54 | <@ToxicFrog> | Do you want a terminal emulator, a shell, a set of command line utilities, or a posixy command line environment? |
| 18:54 | <@ToxicFrog> | So...none of the above, then? |
| 18:54 | <@ToxicFrog> | You want something like Nautilus for windows? |
| 18:54 | <@maoranma> | Well, maybe |
| 18:54 | <@maoranma> | I've fine with command line, but it'd be cool to have something that let's me add directories to the jumplist |
| 18:55 | <@maoranma> | That way I can just navigate directly to a folder, in console, and type what I want to do |
| 18:55 | <@ToxicFrog> | "jumplist"? |
| 18:55 | <@ToxicFrog> | And now I'm back to being confused |
| 18:55 | <@maoranma> | Windows 7 Jumplists |
| 18:55 | <@ToxicFrog> | I don't know what that is |
| 18:56 | <@maoranma> | Oh, one second then |
| 18:56 | <@ToxicFrog> | But, ok, a quick overview of the stuff discussed so far, you can say whether it's what you're after or not |
| 18:56 | <@maoranma> | http://assets.techdreams.org/wp-content/uploads/2009/08/Google_Chrom_Windows_7_J umplist_support.jpg |
| 18:57 | <@maoranma> | that's a jumplist. Windows Explorer jump lists lets you jump directly to a directory, and you can pin stuff to it |
| 18:57 | <@ToxicFrog> | Cygwin: complete linux-style development environment for windows; has bash, X11, terminal emulators, and a complete toolchain for building C/C++/Java/F77/etc. Meant to be able to compile most linux programs without modification, but also useful as "hey I don't want to port things I just want a decent command line" since it comes with all the tools you'd expect. V. heavy. |
| 18:57 | <@gnolam> | maoranma: Shift+right click on a directory, "open command window here"? |
| 18:58 | <@ToxicFrog> | MSYS: similar idea, much smaller. Not intended to be a "linux in windows" style of thing, more minimalist. Still includes a development toolchain, terminal emulator, and bash, but doesn't have, for example, X11 or version control software. (You can get git for it as a separate download though.) |
| 18:58 | <@maoranma> | gnolam: Oh hey, I didn't know that worked in Jumplists |
| 18:59 | <@ToxicFrog> | mingw32/gnuwin32/unxutils: ports of common *nix utilities to windows. Usable either from Cygwin/MSYS or from the windows command line (cmd.exe or powershell). |
| 18:59 | <@ToxicFrog> | So that gets you grep, sort, find, etc |
| 19:00 | <@maoranma> | Yea, I don't need anything quite that heavy though |
| 19:01 | <@maoranma> | gnolam: Hey, do you know a way of making that open in windows powershell instead? |
| 19:01 | <@ToxicFrog> | If none of these are what you're after, I'm back to asking...what is it that you want? |
| 19:01 | <@maoranma> | ToxicFrog: Windows Explorer - Command Line Edition |
| 19:02 | <@TheWatcher> | Install cygwin, use mc. ¬¬ |
| 19:02 | | * maoranma tosses TheWatcher |
| 19:03 | <@maoranma> | those don't really integrate well with Windows 7 features though, is what I'm saying |
| 19:03 | <@maoranma> | Extra commandline utils are great, don't get me wrong |
| 19:05 | <@ToxicFrog> | What do you mean by "windows explorer - command line edition"? |
| 19:05 | <@ToxicFrog> | A curses file browser like mc? |
| 19:05 | <@TheWatcher> | Yeah, I think the problem here is that you're articulating what you want with about the level of transparency you get with 6 feet of concrete.. |
| 19:06 | <@maoranma> | Yes, sorry about that |
| 19:07 | <@gnolam> | maoranma: add it yourself via regedit. |
| 19:08 | <@maoranma> | gnolam: Yes, I just found that |
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| 21:16 | <&McMartin> If you're going to be dicking around with the Registry and need to reverse engineer stuff, MS's SysInternals tools are the shiznit |
| 21:16 | <&McMartin> ProcMon in particular is basically dtrace for windows |
| 21:17 | <&McMartin> And ProcExp - basically, super task manager - is part of my "things to install to make a Windows system properly functional" toolset |
| 21:18 | <@froztbyte> | yeah, the SysInternals tools are *awesome* |
| 21:18 | <@froztbyte> | one or two of them got shunted after microsoft hired the guy who wrote them |
| 21:18 | <@froztbyte> | I still have my archive around from before that happened, but I would imagine that's not futureproofed all the way to current versions of windows |
| 21:19 | <@froztbyte> | McMartin: I especially like TcpView |
| 21:19 | <&McMartin> Definitely depends on your problem set. |
| 21:19 | <&McMartin> ProcMon is my go-to because I have to write or interoperate with device drivers a lot as part of my job |
| 21:19 | <&McMartin> So ProcMon is the one-stop shop after a bug report for "wtf is actually happening here" |
| 21:19 | | * McMartin has a ProcMon window open *right now* awaiting his post-lunch attentions. |
| 21:20 | <@froztbyte> | McMartin: indeed |
| 21:20 | <@froztbyte> | speaking of food, I need to make dinner. and it's 23h20. oops? |
| 21:51 | <@jerith> | After talking to one of the github guys most of the evening, I'm happier about them having all my code. |
| 21:52 | <@jerith> | They take the right stuff seriously, are pissed off about the things they should be and are generally relaxed about everything else. :-) |
| 21:56 | <@TheWatcher> | Good to know |
| 23:09 | <@gnolam> | Heh. I wonder how tired I was when I wrote this: |
| 23:09 | <@gnolam> | # Ceci n'est pas une subprocess.PIPE |
| 23:09 | <@gnolam> | from subprocess import PIPE, STDOUT |
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| 23:16 | <&McMartin> \o/ |
| 23:17 | < maoranma> | I wonder if I could get Nautilus-esque audio previewing in Windows |
| 23:19 | < maoranma> | Ah, here we go, WinRefine |
| 23:23 | < maoranma> | Sweet, that works perfect |
| 23:26 | < maoranma> | Combined with QTTabBar, Windows Explorer isn't quite so bad now |
| 23:26 | | You're now known as TheWatcher[T-2] |
| 23:29 | | You're now known as TheWatcher[zZzZ] |
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| --- Log closed Thu Jan 26 00:00:57 2012 |