| --- Log opened Tue Jan 24 00:00:18 2012 |
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| 01:52 | < mao42ranma> | Know of any good, perferably free, fractal art generators, besides Apophysis? |
| 02:04 | <@ToxicFrog> | Not offhand. |
| 02:04 | <@ToxicFrog> | On the plus side, I am really liking IDEA |
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| 02:06 | < mao42ranma> | lol? |
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| 02:20 | <@ToxicFrog> | mao42ranma: an IDE. |
| 02:20 | <@ToxicFrog> | Intended for Java, but supports a bunch of other languages, including my main two (lua and scala) |
| 02:20 | <@ToxicFrog> | It's a bit heavy, but on the plus side, actual semantic analysis |
| 02:21 | <@ToxicFrog> | (and the next version of the Lua plugin promises type inference) |
| 02:26 | <&McMartin> Woo, type inference |
| 02:26 | <&McMartin> JavaScript has it; now nobody has any excuse |
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| 04:13 | <@Alek> | xxx: So whenever I talk to this girl at work, I constantly struggle to keep my jaw closed. She's just that pretty. yyy: So invite her over for a cup of coffee? xxx: she's a programmer too, it'd be more logical to invite her over for a coding session. yyy: Invite her for a cup of java? |
| 05:01 | <@ToxicFrog> | I thought the idea was to make a good impression~ |
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| 05:57 | < Eri> | It's crazy that you have two friends, one of which has a triple y chromosome, and one of which has a triple x chromosome. |
| 05:58 | < Eri> | I thought the chances of either was, like, astronomical |
| 05:58 | <&Derakon> Triple-Y would be fatal. |
| 05:58 | <&Derakon> There's a lot of rather important stuff on the X. |
| 05:58 | < Eri> | Is it really? Let's look this up |
| 05:58 | <&Derakon> The Y mostly just has a few hacks to redirect certain functions. |
| 05:58 | <&Derakon> "Yeah, you know those ovaries you were gonna make? Turn 'em into testes instead." |
| 05:59 | <&Derakon> That kind of thing. |
| 05:59 | <@froztbyte> | haha |
| 06:00 | <&Derakon> You can get XYY though. |
| 06:00 | < Eri> | Wow, there's cases all the way up to 5 X chromosomes |
| 06:01 | < Eri> | I wonder how the biological process to get that would work |
| 06:01 | <&Derakon> Meiosis accidentally creates a non-viable sperm with no sex chromosome and one with two chromosomes, instead of two with one each. |
| 06:01 | <&Derakon> Then you iterate that a few times. |
| 06:02 | <&Derakon> IIRC sperm error correction is not that great, so benignly faulty sperm show up comparatively often. |
| 06:03 | <&Derakon> Usually resulting in a nonviable fetus if they manage to impregnate at all. |
| 06:03 | <&Derakon> (Wouldn't even get far enough for the female to realize she was pregnant) |
| 06:05 | < Eri> | See, I thought the miotic cells were fairly static. |
| 06:05 | < Eri> | As in, you've got one set of cells that replicates itself rarely, but can form sperm |
| 06:05 | <&Derakon> Mm, my memory of testes function is pretty hazy, so you could be right...but sperm cycle themselves pretty dang frequently. |
| 06:06 | < Eri> | So, to get XXXXX, you'd need three cascaded errors in the same cell line |
| 06:06 | <&Derakon> Especially if you ejaculate frequently. |
| 06:06 | < Eri> | I'm looking this shit up. Anime's on hold |
| 06:06 | <&Derakon> (for a given hypothetical male "you") |
| 06:06 | <&Derakon> Heh. |
| 06:08 | < Eri> | Hmm. Looks like the testes contain germ cells, which undergo mitosis to create more germ cells, or miosis to create the predecessors to sperm |
| 06:09 | < Eri> | So, since miosis is a destructive process, in that the resulting cells are both haploid, every other sperm cell was once a germ cell |
| 06:09 | < Eri> | So, yes |
| 06:09 | < Eri> | Lots of turnover in the germ cells |
| 06:09 | < Eri> | But, that still doesn't really explain how you can get greater than three X chromasomes |
| 06:09 | < Eri> | *chromosomes |
| 06:10 | < Eri> | Mitosis is a diploid-diploid process |
| 06:10 | <&Derakon> That doesn't preclude errors in separating out the duplicated chromosomes into the two new cells. |
| 06:11 | < Eri> | Yeah, I was just typing something about that |
| 06:11 | < Eri> | So, XXXX would require an error in mitosis and miosis, and XXXXX would require an error in mitosis, and no error in miosis |
| 06:12 | < Eri> | Presumably, then, XXXX would be more rare. What I've read so far doesn't support that, but we can hand-wave it away by saying XXXXX is far less viable |
| 06:13 | < Eri> | Ah, hang on |
| 06:13 | < Eri> | We've been thinking in terms of sperm |
| 06:13 | < Eri> | That means it's a fifty percent chance for X or Y |
| 06:13 | < Eri> | Eggs are a little different |
| 06:14 | < Eri> | Just pulling from wikipedia, but it looks like most eggs, in development, will have additional copies of the chromosomes, which apparently speeds up growth. |
| 06:14 | <&Derakon> Hunh. |
| 06:15 | < Eri> | Bah, eggs, oocytes |
| 06:15 | | * Eri hates the female reproductive system |
| 06:15 | < Eri> | As a system, that is |
| 06:16 | < Eri> | Far too complicated |
| 06:16 | < Eri> | One of the drawbacks of evolution is that things that shouldn't work, work |
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| 06:18 | < Eri> | Example, a nerve in the giraffe's neck that is supposed to go, like, 10 cm, but actually goes all the way up the neck, loops around an artery, and goes all the way back |
| 06:18 | <&Derakon> Or rather, evolution goes with whatever kludge it stumbles onto first, not necessarily the most elegant design. |
| 06:18 | < Eri> | Yeah |
| 06:19 | < Eri> | Can't refactor genetic code :( |
| 06:19 | <@jerith> | But it's really good at finding local optima in the selection space. |
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| 06:41 | < mao42ranma> | Naturally |
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| 08:30 | < Tarinaky> | Someone just posted on Facebook "There's nothing javascript can't do!" |
| 08:30 | < Tarinaky> | Quick! I need a troll! |
| 08:31 | < Tarinaky> | What's something javascript can't do? |
| 08:31 | <@jerith> | Make me coffe. |
| 08:32 | <@jerith> | (Which is why CoffeeScript was invented.~) |
| 08:32 | < Tarinaky> | I opted for: "JavaScript cannot write to files on the server, or a database, without the help of a server side script." |
| 08:32 | <@jerith> | Tarinaky: node.js |
| 08:32 | <@jerith> | Unless they're specifically talking about in-browser. |
| 08:33 | < Tarinaky> | The link is inbrowser. |
| 08:33 | <@jerith> | I want to say "arbitrary system access", but security flaws. |
| 08:34 | < Tarinaky> | "But can it do your mum?" |
| 08:35 | <@jerith> | It can certainly give me warm fuzzy feelings. |
| 08:36 | < Tarinaky> | So can getting your boyfriend to spunk down your throat. |
| 08:36 | < Tarinaky> | Too much? |
| 08:36 | <@jerith> | (Because there are scripts that get stuck in 100% CPU busy loops. Warm from the heat, fuzzy from the fan vibrations.) |
| 08:37 | | * jerith has never had a boyfriend spunk down his throat, so can't comment. |
| 08:37 | <@Ling> | JS can't do math on fractions |
| 08:37 | < Tarinaky> | http://imgur.com/u36kg |
| 08:38 | < Tarinaky> | ^ Javascript? |
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| 12:05 | < ShellNinja> | "Ubuntu 12.04 Autistic Ameba" <- Found on Polish bash. |
| 12:06 | <&McMartin> Precise Pangolin, as it happens |
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| 16:41 | | * Vornicus learns many other things from the Computing with Geometry page. |
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| 19:05 | < froztbyte> | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cP5TLk4-rcY |
| 19:05 | < gnolam> | Ah, someone's uploaded it to Youtube. |
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| 19:23 | < maoranma> | Found Apophysis 7X, starting to get the hang of it. Will Picasa some of these shortly after render. |
| 19:23 | < maoranma> | Rendering. :( Not something you want to do on a laptop |
| 19:23 | < froztbyte> | s/on a laptop// |
| 19:24 | < froztbyte> | "why can't the computer just make the pictures appear like magic?!" |
| 19:24 | < maoranma> | I know, right? |
| 19:26 | < maoranma> | Shame it can't use my GPU for some of this. |
| 19:57 | < maoranma> | https://picasaweb.google.com/maoranma/Apophysis?authuser=0&authkey=Gv1sRgCKfmj9e T6tC4SA&feat=directlink |
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| 19:59 | < maoranma> | Weird. Picasa resized some but not all |
| 19:59 | <@jerith> | Pretty! |
| 19:59 | < maoranma> | Oh, those were previews it loads first then the fullsize |
| 20:00 | < maoranma> | Yea, they're fun to make, save for my very very slow render speed, haha |
| 20:05 | < maoranma> | Reloading without watermarks, I forgot to disable that :\ |
| 20:06 | <@jerith> | What are you drawing them with? |
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| 20:08 | < froztbyte> | damn, those are pretty |
| 20:08 | < froztbyte> | very nice, maoranma |
| 20:09 | < froztbyte> | jerith: http://sourceforge.net/projects/apophysis7x/ |
| 20:09 | < maoranma> | ^ |
| 20:09 | < maoranma> | That |
| 20:09 | < maoranma> | Thank you froztbyte |
| 20:09 | < froztbyte> | also at http://apophysis.xyrus-worx.org/ apparently |
| 20:09 | <@jerith> | Ah, cool. |
| 20:09 | <@jerith> | froztbyte: Do you have your ScaleConf tickets? |
| 20:10 | < froztbyte> | maoranma: the green pattern is trippy, it seems to have the same elements of motion-induction as some other optical illusions I've seen before |
| 20:10 | < froztbyte> | jerith: nope |
| 20:10 | <@jerith> | froztbyte: Better grumble about it, then. ;-) |
| 20:10 | < froztbyte> | haha, not a chance |
| 20:11 | < froztbyte> | jerith: see, part of the problem here is that all of these things are nice and shiny, but they're /completely/ out of what I can ever play with because none of what we do uses that sort of stuff |
| 20:11 | < froztbyte> | I try to get some of it in where I can, and keep up to date with at least understanding how things work |
| 20:12 | < froztbyte> | also, see pm on $othernetwork |
| 20:12 | <@jerith> | froztbyte: You do deployments, right? Monitoring? ;-) |
| 20:12 | <@jerith> | Also, I see no such PM. |
| 20:12 | <@jerith> | Ah. I see it now. |
| 20:13 | < froztbyte> | I'm definitely going to spend some time on that, though :) |
| 20:13 | < froztbyte> | jerith: yes, but getting as far as I have with some of these things has already been a major bloody pain :P |
| 20:14 | < froztbyte> | because some of these systems were just never designed with those sort of goals in mind, so I paint a picture based on whatever I can get my hands on |
| 20:14 | <@ToxicFrog> | Pfft |
| 20:14 | <@ToxicFrog> | http://harmful.cat-v.org/software/c++/I_did_it_for_you_all |
| 20:14 | < froztbyte> | we also deal with telcos and such, who basically don't ever want to do anything with a changecontrol document |
| 20:14 | < froztbyte> | so software deployment etc is slow-moving |
| 20:15 | <@jerith> | *without ? |
| 20:15 | < froztbyte> | not to say there are absolute shields up against everything, just that I have various obstacles |
| 20:15 | < froztbyte> | jerith: err, yes |
| 20:15 | < froztbyte> | but hey, I've finally gotten the guys at work over to hg from svn some time ago, I'm managing to push them into fixing some of their bad dev habits, etc |
| 20:15 | < froztbyte> | one day I might even be able to convince them to not believe PHP is god ;) |
| 20:22 | < maoranma> | 30 minute render, this better look good |
| 20:26 | < maoranma> | omg |
| 20:26 | < maoranma> | Is that interview real? |
| 20:26 | < gnolam> | ... no. |
| 20:27 | < maoranma> | phew |
| 20:27 | <@ToxicFrog> | No, but it's worryingly plausible, isn't it?~ |
| 20:27 | < maoranma> | Yes. o.o |
| 20:32 | < maoranma> | Interviewer: If we publish this, you'll probably get lynched, you do realise that? |
| 20:32 | < maoranma> | lmao |
| 20:42 | <&McMartin> "Try it on the latest version of g++ - you won't get much change out of half a megabyte." |
| 20:42 | < maoranma> | XD |
| 20:42 | <&McMartin> Every time this stat comes up I want to beat people about the head and shoulders. |
| 20:42 | <&McMartin> LIBC IS NOT BROUGHT TO YOU BY THE GODDAMN LIBC FAIRY |
| 20:47 | < froztbyte> | haha |
| 20:47 | < froztbyte> | the dpkg fairy brought it to me! |
| 20:49 | <@ToxicFrog> | McMartin: the underlying complaint there actually appears to be "libstdc++ is twice as large as libc" |
| 20:49 | <@ToxicFrog> | Since the C version is around 700k even with statically linked everything. |
| 20:50 | | * Vornicus checks. |
| 20:50 | <&McMartin> I apparently can't statically link libc on iodine. |
| 20:51 | <&McMartin> 700k is a larger number than "half a megabyte". |
| 20:51 | <~Vornicus> My standard environment runs at 68MB, but it's python, so why complain |
| 20:52 | <&McMartin> Also, code reuse happens all the fucking time |
| 20:52 | < Namegduf> | Python's not really comparable because its stdlib contains a lot more functionality. |
| 20:52 | < Namegduf> | Which is a really rather helpful thing. |
| 20:52 | <&McMartin> SO DOES C++'S. |
| 20:52 | <&McMartin> Well, compared to C. |
| 20:52 | <&McMartin> I have Issues(tm) with the std namespace overall |
| 20:52 | <@ToxicFrog> | McMartin: er |
| 20:53 | <@ToxicFrog> | I was reading his complaint as "C++ executables are like 2MB, compared to 500-700k for C" "have you tried it on a recent g++?" "yes, it's half a megabyte smaller, 1.5MB is still pretty big" |
| 20:53 | <&McMartin> Ah. |
| 20:54 | <@ToxicFrog> | Also, code reuse happens all the fucking time but not nearly as much as it should >.< |
| 20:55 | < Namegduf> | If they're statically linked, surely it should be removing unused code, anyway? |
| 20:55 | <&McMartin> Namegduf: It turns out printf() and iostream use a lot of other things. |
| 20:55 | < Namegduf> | If it's twice as big when doing literally the same thing |
| 20:55 | < Namegduf> | There's a point |
| 20:55 | <&McMartin> It never is. |
| 20:55 | < Namegduf> | But Hello World isn't much of a good example. |
| 20:55 | <&McMartin> The C++ Hello world is std::cout << "Hello, world" << std::endl |
| 20:56 | <@ToxicFrog> | Namegduf: well, it's not; the C++ version is using std::cout, which does a lot more than printf() does. |
| 20:56 | < Namegduf> | It's a benchmark which matches no real use scenario. |
| 20:56 | <&McMartin> Which uses a mechanism that involves streaming arbitrary typed objects, and C has no use for either streams nor typed objects. |
| 20:56 | <@ToxicFrog> | If you use <cstdio> and then compile as C++ you get the same size as the C version. |
| 20:56 | < Namegduf> | I think there's an important distinction between "does" and "can do" in this case. |
| 20:56 | < Namegduf> | But okay. |
| 20:56 | <@jerith> | http://www.muppetlabs.com/~breadbox/software/tiny/teensy.html |
| 20:56 | <@ToxicFrog> | But, yeah, this is not really a useful comparison unless you're working on embedded systems in which case you have a custom stdlib anyways. |
| 20:57 | < Namegduf> | You're still doing it wrong to use heavyweight things which "can do" a lot more than you're using it to actually "do", but that just means if for some perverse reason you really need need an optimal "Hello World" you'd mimic the C version, while usually you don't care to microoptimise that much or are actually benefiting fromt he additional functionality. |
| 20:58 | < Namegduf> | I mean, if you're trying to get close-to-optimal performance. |
| 20:58 | < Namegduf> | Hello World just isn't, and is a terrible example to measure capability to do so with. |
| 20:59 | <&McMartin> "You're still doing it wrong to use heavyweight things which 'can do' a lot more than you're using it to actually 'do'" <--- false |
| 20:59 | <&McMartin> You don't need the entire widget library, but writing your own that only does what your spec demands is The Wrong Way |
| 20:59 | < Namegduf> | Do I really have to append the phrase "all other things equal" to everything I write |
| 21:00 | < Namegduf> | It is, but for entirely unrelated reasons, such as "reinventing the wheel is a bad idea" |
| 21:00 | < Namegduf> | And a massively time-consuming one at that. |
| 21:00 | < Namegduf> | There's tradeoff, yes. |
| 21:00 | <&McMartin> Yeah, if you throw in an "all else equal" your statement becomes useless |
| 21:01 | < Namegduf> | Not really. You take all your multiple "all else equal, X is better than Y", prioritise them, and run them against each other to make decisions. |
| 21:01 | < Namegduf> | Just because an individual one doesn't make all decisions doesn't make it useless. |
| 21:02 | <&McMartin> This is a case where they're permanent tension, though. There is no "all else equal" case |
| 21:02 | < Namegduf> | There never is. Doesn't matter. |
| 21:02 | < Namegduf> | Simplicity vs complexity, all else equal, simplicity is better. |
| 21:02 | < Namegduf> | All else is never equal. |
| 21:02 | < Namegduf> | Same deal for performance, time taken, etc. |
| 21:03 | < Namegduf> | You weight them and get the most of the better you can. |
| 21:03 | < maoranma> | https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/29r2N2LjRy1eA2WqjHQda8JbQ2M7Qn0W2kdzqoWCux w?feat=directlink |
| 21:04 | < Namegduf> | It's an obvious statement, but it was not supposed to be a controversial thing |
| 21:04 | < maoranma> | https://plus.google.com/photos/103169995247739467981/albums/5701292096337954737 |
| 21:04 | <@jerith> | "simple" is never simple. |
| 21:04 | < maoranma> | Apparently I upgraded Picasa and now it gives me links to Google+ Photos |
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| 21:04 | <@jerith> | Since it's usually about moving complexity somewhere else. |
| 21:14 | < Namegduf> | That's true. |
| 21:20 | < maoranma> | http://harmful.cat-v.org/software/operating-systems/linux/infinite-alsa-mixer.pn g |
| 21:20 | < maoranma> | lol |
| 21:22 | | * Namegduf turns the chorus up. All of it. |
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| 21:24 | < maoranma> | HALLELUJAH! |
| 21:25 | < froztbyte> | success, I would assume |
| 21:27 | < maoranma> | Yes, managed to trade my daughter my thumb for a binky |
| 21:29 | < maoranma> | http://alien-dreams.deviantart.com/art/Xenophilia-Tutorial-264350378?q=gallery%3 Aapophysis%2F23752578&qo=5 |
| 21:29 | < maoranma> | I want to do that ---^ |
| 21:30 | < froztbyte> | hehe |
| 21:31 | < maoranma> | It's only six transforms |
| 21:31 | < maoranma> | But damn that's awesome looking |
| 21:36 | < gnolam> | http://i.imgur.com/eUcRE.jpg |
| 21:37 | < maoranma> | Haha, that guy on the left looks like my old supervisor at Comcast |
| 21:42 | | himi [fow035@Nightstar-5d05bada.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 121 seconds] |
| 21:47 | <@Alek> | dammit, that looks like me. |
| 21:47 | <@Alek> | only I WISH I worked in an office. <_< |
| 21:48 | <@Alek> | the bald spot. the glasses. the beard. the size. >_> |
| 21:49 | < maoranma> | Patrick?! |
| 21:54 | <@jerith> | Noah!? |
| 21:54 | | * maoranma nukes jerith |
| 21:54 | | * jerith eats the nuke. |
| 22:03 | | himi [fow035@Nightstar-5d05bada.internode.on.net] has joined #code |
| 22:03 | | mode/#code [+o himi] by ChanServ |
| 22:10 | <@Alek> | no, not Patrick. >_> |
| 22:30 | | eckse [eckse@Nightstar-352640df.dsl.sentex.ca] has joined #code |
| 22:38 | | Derakon [chriswei@Nightstar-a3b183ae.ca.comcast.net] has joined #code |
| 22:38 | | mode/#code [+ao Derakon Derakon] by ChanServ |
| 22:38 | <&Derakon> Ahhh. |
| 22:38 | <&Derakon> Replaced some old code with my own re-implementation today. |
| 22:39 | <&Derakon> The old code was a 654-line histogram display system. |
| 22:39 | <&Derakon> I implemented my own version, with comments included, in 124 lines. |
| 22:39 | <&Derakon> And it's prettier, too. |
| 22:41 | | * Derakon peruses the old code, notes that it uses a 1D texture to create a linear gradient background. Heh. |
| 22:41 | <&Derakon> (You can do the same thing easily by changing color mid-GL_QUADS) |
| 23:01 | <&McMartin> Hm. That sounds less flexible though |
| 23:03 | <&Derakon> Yes, but the actual use was generating the linear gradient manually, transforming it into a 1D texture, and using that as the background. |
| 23:03 | <&Derakon> Flexibility is pointless if you can't easily take advantage of it. |
| 23:04 | <&McMartin> Yeah, that's less impressive |
| 23:04 | <&McMartin> (Better uses: cel shading, heightmaps) |
| 23:05 | <&Derakon> Now my only remaining problem is that the WX upgrade (necessitated by the switch to a 64-bit OS, which the Carbon WX libs haven't been built for) resulted in one of the window styles breaking. |
| 23:05 | <&Derakon> Compare http://derakon.dyndns.org/~chriswei/temp2/wxframe1.png vs. http://derakon.dyndns.org/~chriswei/temp2/wxframe2.png |
| 23:05 | <&Derakon> Same code, one rendered with the old system, the other with then ew. |
| 23:05 | <&Derakon> Er, the new. |
| 23:05 | <&McMartin> "Here, the new, then, ew" |
| 23:06 | <&Derakon> Heh. |
| 23:07 | | * Derakon sighs at an email response he got. |
| 23:07 | <&Derakon> I sent an email to a company basically saying "So how does your library work anyway?" and citing a few examples of things I found confusing. |
| 23:08 | <&Derakon> For example, I asked why they were waiting 500ms before shutting down the system. |
| 23:08 | <&Derakon> I got the response "The Sleep(500) call causes the program to sleep for 500ms". |
| 23:08 | < gnolam> | ... |
| 23:08 | <&Derakon> I also asked for basic examples of how to use the system with the provided libraries. |
| 23:08 | <&Derakon> The response: "Sorry, we don't support BASIC libraries." |
| 23:08 | <&Derakon> Argh. |
| 23:08 | <&McMartin> Did they outsource to SIRI or |
| 23:08 | < Namegduf> | XD |
| 23:08 | < Namegduf> | Wow. |
| 23:09 | <&Derakon> There's a bit of a language barrier here (the company's predominantly German) but still, this particular guy's stationed in the States and was fluent when I met him. |
| 23:09 | < gnolam> | ... is it Sebastian? |
| 23:10 | <&Derakon> No, thankfully. |
| 23:10 | <&Derakon> Though I would be surprised if Sebastian made those kinds of mistakes; he can't code worth a damn but he does know I know what I'm doing. |
| 23:13 | | * McMartin eyes |
| 23:14 | <&McMartin> Via earlier discussion |
| 23:14 | <&McMartin> Oh, wait, this isn't static. |
| 23:15 | <&McMartin> (OCaml's Hello World was "only" 171KB, but it's pulling in a fair amount there) |
| 23:22 | <&McMartin> Also, is it me, or are almost all design patterns "your language sucks, here's how better languages do their good things under the hood"? |
| 23:23 | < Namegduf> | Yes. |
| 23:23 | <&Derakon> Er. |
| 23:23 | <&Derakon> Are you implying that e.g. C is flawed because you have to implement your own linked lists? |
| 23:23 | < maoranma> | mIRC's hello world |
| 23:23 | < maoranma> | /say hello world |
| 23:23 | < Namegduf> | I don't think the definition of design pattern used there would include linked lists. |
| 23:23 | < maoranma> | I win |
| 23:24 | <&Derakon> I think Python's example is more intuitive. |
| 23:24 | <&McMartin> I'm thinking more "Visitor is how you get away with your language not having multiple dispatch" |
| 23:24 | < maoranma> | print 'hello world' |
| 23:24 | <&McMartin> And "Decorator is how you make inheritance trees be dynamic" |
| 23:24 | <&Derakon> Right. |
| 23:24 | <&Derakon> McM: ah. |
| 23:25 | <&McMartin> Now, the fact that C does not have native support for the most basic of data structures is a bit of a flaw because there are no standards for same, but... |
| 23:26 | <&Derakon> C being glorified assembly code, arguably any data structure more complicated than a struct is bloat~ |
| 23:26 | <&McMartin> setjmp is bloat (massively so on RISC machines, hilariously), and so are local variables~ |
| 23:27 | <&McMartin> Real programmers write their own call stacks~ |
| 23:28 | <@TheWatcher> | M-x butterfly~ |
| 23:28 | < maoranma> | Python 3: print('Hello world.') |
| 23:29 | < maoranma> | Oh, sorry, raw_print, so Python can't inject the user with arbitrary code |
| 23:30 | <&Derakon> ...wait, what? |
| 23:30 | | You're now known as TheWatcher[T-2] |
| 23:30 | <&Derakon> Night, TW. |
| 23:31 | | * TheWatcher[T-2] has this vague mental picture of a venomous snake whose bit infects you with a rootkit |
| 23:31 | <@TheWatcher[T-2]> | *bite |
| 23:31 | < maoranma> | *bytes |
| 23:32 | < maoranma> | ... |
| 23:32 | < maoranma> | Look folks, these are the jokes |
| 23:33 | | You're now known as TheWatcher[zZzZ] |
| 23:40 | <&McMartin> Derakon: maoranma is mocking python for the existence of input vs. raw_input |
| 23:40 | <&Derakon> Ah. |
| 23:41 | <&McMartin> That said, he's off-base, because in Python 3, input() is raw_input(). |
| 23:42 | < maoranma> | I know that too, thus the poking of fun |
| 23:43 | < maoranma> | That they fixed input but introduced raw_print |
| 23:43 | < maoranma> | hardy har har |
| 23:51 | < maoranma> | jerith, you about? |
| 23:58 | | Derakon [chriswei@Nightstar-a3b183ae.ca.comcast.net] has quit [[NS] Quit: leaving] |
| --- Log closed Wed Jan 25 00:00:35 2012 |