| --- Log opened Fri Dec 09 00:00:55 2011 |
| 00:03 | | Omega [omegaboot@Nightstar-10752b3e.il.comcast.net] has joined #code |
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| 07:10 | <@jerith> | http://stackoverflow.com/questions/8439572/python-indentationerror-too-many-leve ls-of-indentation |
| 07:11 | < Tamber> | ... |
| 07:11 | < Tamber> | Aha, generated code. I was trying to figure out how anyone could possibly go through 100 levels of indentation and not think "There's something wrong here" |
| 08:25 | | AnnoDomini [annodomini@Nightstar-4ea39ceb.212.getinternet.no] has joined #code |
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| 10:27 | | You're now known as TheWatcher |
| 10:28 | | * Reiver prods Vornicus in an experimental fashion; has a not impossible but Headachey Problem to work out. |
| 10:29 | < Reiver> | A system where you are rolling 1-6 d6, looking for target numbers between 2+ and 6+, and counting the number of successes made. |
| 10:30 | < Reiver> | You have two options to rig the numbers: Reroll all *unsuccessful* dice in a die pool once, or reduce the target value by 2 (so 5+ becomes 3+). |
| 10:31 | < Reiver> | Are there circumstances where the former is ever better than the latter? |
| 10:38 | < EvilDarkLord> | And you have to decide this before rolling, yes? |
| 10:40 | < EvilDarkLord> | At 4+ you get 75 % with the former and about 83 % with the latter. 5+ is and 67 % |
| 10:41 | < EvilDarkLord> | Oops, mis-enter. Anyway, rerolls seem to be universally less valuable. |
| 10:50 | | * EvilDarkLord pokes Reiver with this. Also, relevant Math: given two rolls with a success rate of X, the chance of getting it right at least once is 1-(1-X)^2. |
| 10:54 | < Reiver> | EvilDarkLord: Well, you'd actually have to declare the TN-reduction beforehand and the rerolls after |
| 10:54 | < Reiver> | But I'm just checking that the TN-reduction really is better than rerolls in terms of getting higher success rates. |
| 10:56 | < EvilDarkLord> | Right. And you can't combine the two? |
| 10:59 | < Reiver> | I haven't decided. Probably, yes |
| 10:59 | < Reiver> | But that's not strictly relevant at the immediate moment insomuch as 'Spending the point beforehand is better than spending one after, right?' |
| 11:00 | < EvilDarkLord> | Sure looks like it. I assumed you could reduce TN to 1, mind. |
| 11:01 | < EvilDarkLord> | Otherwise 2+ is trivially better to reroll. |
| 11:01 | < Reiver> | Yeah, wouldn't make much sense otherwise would it |
| 11:01 | < Reiver> | OTOH haven't quite decided yet |
| 11:01 | < Reiver> | How do they compare if it is reducing the TN by 1? |
| 11:02 | < EvilDarkLord> | I shall instruct you in the arts of black Math so you can find out for yourself. |
| 11:02 | < EvilDarkLord> | Okay. For N+, where 1 <= N <= 6, the chance of success is N/6. |
| 11:03 | < EvilDarkLord> | Err, what am I saying. |
| 11:03 | < EvilDarkLord> | The chance of success is (7-N)/6, right. |
| 11:04 | < EvilDarkLord> | So for 5+ it's 2/6, and so forth. If you reduce TN by 1 from that, then you get 3/6. |
| 11:05 | < EvilDarkLord> | If you reroll, then the success rate is 1-(1-S)^2, where S is your success rate. |
| 11:05 | < EvilDarkLord> | ...for a single die. |
| 11:08 | < EvilDarkLord> | So in this case you'd have 1-(1-2/6)^2 = 1-(4/6)^2 = 1-16/36 = 20/36 for a reroll. |
| 11:08 | < EvilDarkLord> | This is somewhat better than the 3/6 = 18/36 you get from reducing TN by 1. |
| 11:09 | < EvilDarkLord> | Repeat process for other numbers as you like. If you allow multiple rerolls, modify the 2 in the reroll formula to be number of rerolls instead. |
| 11:10 | < EvilDarkLord> | Well, number of rerolls -1 rather, since the first roll also counts. |
| 11:10 | < EvilDarkLord> | *+1. Sheesh, I shouldn't write out math when I'm morning tired. |
| 11:27 | | * Reiver eyes that. |
| 11:27 | < Reiver> | Fair enough, though I was hoping for one of Vorns Brilliant Formulas that let me figure out that for all TNs across all dice pools at once |
| 11:27 | | * Reiver cough. |
| 11:31 | < EvilDarkLord> | The success rate for TN X is (7-X)/6, call this S. The success rate for repeating this is 1-(1-S)^N, where N is the number of repetitions, including the first roll. |
| 11:32 | < EvilDarkLord> | I assumed you knew that dice pool size doesn't actually matter. |
| 11:34 | < EvilDarkLord> | Unless you want number of successes total, in which case it's success rate * dicepool, or one success on a given dicepool, in which case you apply the latter of those with S being the success rate for one die. |
| 11:38 | | * EvilDarkLord pokes Reiver. So, do these basic probability concepts qualify as Brilliant Formulas? :) |
| 11:42 | | Kindamoody|afk is now known as Kindamoody |
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| 12:00 | < Reiver> | Huh. I'd thought it would make a difference for some reason |
| 12:03 | < EvilDarkLord> | Well, it can get Weird when you want actual distributions of success counts, but for the binary questions it's pretty simple. |
| 12:44 | < gnolam> | CAFFEINE OVERDOSE |
| 12:55 | < gnolam> | Hmm. |
| 13:20 | | Kindamoody is now known as Kindamoody|out |
| 14:35 | < iospace> | so apparently my loopback test works per se... |
| 14:35 | < iospace> | just the fact that the settings that are linux specific are causing issues o_O |
| 14:53 | < gnolam> | Ye gods LibreOffice's dictionary is awful |
| 14:58 | < TheWatcher> | s/'s dictionary// |
| 14:58 | < TheWatcher> | there, fixed~ |
| 14:58 | < iospace> | heh |
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| 16:19 | < iospace> | awww we can't simply use socks anymore in the ESD areas T_T |
| 16:47 | | jerith [jerith@Nightstar-bf52129d.slipgate.za.net] has joined #code |
| 16:56 | < iospace> | trying to convince someone that screen is good is hard, more so if they use that one OS that lacks a good editor |
| 16:59 | < jerith> | iospace: But emacs runs on /all/ operating systems... *flees* |
| 16:59 | < iospace> | heh |
| 17:02 | < iospace> | but seriously |
| 17:02 | < iospace> | screen is an awesome program ^_^ |
| 17:03 | < AnnoDomini> | Indeed. |
| 17:07 | | celticminstrel [celticminst@Nightstar-5d22ab1d.cable.rogers.com] has joined #code |
| 17:22 | | Tsubaki_ [Phox@Nightstar-4551db51.wireless.telus.com] has joined #code |
| 17:23 | | Tsubaki_ [Phox@Nightstar-4551db51.wireless.telus.com] has left #code ["Damnit,"] |
| 17:24 | | * jerith has just finished setting up irssi in screen again. |
| 17:24 | < jerith> | I've probably lost a bunch of channels. :-/ |
| 17:24 | < iospace> | heh |
| 17:25 | < jerith> | The box it was running on was rebooted. |
| 17:31 | < iospace> | yeah i remember every channel i'm on thankfully :) |
| 17:31 | < iospace> | or the ones that count |
| 17:32 | < iospace> | jerith: wht do you use anyway? |
| 17:33 | < jerith> | What do I use for what? |
| 17:35 | < iospace> | text editor |
| 17:37 | < jerith> | Emacs, mostly. vim whenever I'm not using emacs, unless there's a very good reason to use something else. |
| 17:38 | < iospace> | heh |
| 17:38 | < iospace> | i mostly use N++ when i'm looking at files and doing light editing, otherwise it's pretty much vim only |
| 17:38 | < jerith> | I use vim for quick things and on the far side of an ssh connection. |
| 18:04 | | AnnoDomini is now known as Dan |
| 18:43 | | Kindamoody|out is now known as Kindamoody |
| 18:58 | | Stalker [Z@Nightstar-3602cf5a.cust.comxnet.dk] has quit [[NS] Quit: Into the hole again, we hurried along our way, into a once-glorious garden now seeped in dark decay.] |
| 19:38 | | Kindamoody is now known as Kindamoody[zZz] |
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| 20:35 | < iospace> | son of a god damn whore |
| 20:38 | < gnolam> | ? |
| 20:38 | < iospace> | i hate everything |
| 20:39 | | * jerith hands iospace a copy of VSS, so he can hate *properly*. |
| 20:51 | < iospace> | Visual Source Safe? |
| 20:52 | | * iospace pokes jerith |
| 21:02 | < jerith> | Yup. |
| 21:05 | < iospace> | ... |
| 21:05 | < iospace> | jerith: that's considered a form of torture under the geneva conventions |
| 21:06 | < jerith> | Have you ever had to use it? |
| 21:06 | < iospace> | sadly |
| 21:06 | < jerith> | It's the only "revision control system" that's *worse* than code_from_yesterday_new_old_new.zip. |
| 21:07 | < iospace> | jerith: also |
| 21:07 | < jerith> | Did you keep VB6 code in it? |
| 21:07 | < iospace> | you assumed i'm male |
| 21:08 | < iospace> | no, UML diagrams, C++ code, some java code |
| 21:08 | < jerith> | I generally use the male pronoun when there's ambiguity. Such as when there are no gender indicators. |
| 21:09 | < iospace> | i use singular they |
| 21:09 | < iospace> | also /whois is your friend ;D |
| 21:10 | | * jerith grins. |
| 21:13 | < iospace> | ^^ |
| 21:16 | | * Alek waves at ex-kwsn. |
| 21:16 | < iospace> | :) |
| 21:17 | < jerith> | Ah, right. kwsn. |
| 21:17 | < iospace> | ^_^ |
| 21:17 | | * jerith lost all his chat history recently and didn't make the connection. |
| 21:17 | < iospace> | heh |
| 21:17 | < jerith> | I thought you sounded familiar. |
| 21:19 | < iospace> | oh? |
| 21:20 | < jerith> | I whoised you about 2.5 hours ago. |
| 21:21 | < jerith> | Between here and FLEET. |
| 21:23 | < iospace> | :P |
| 21:25 | < McMartin> | If you're keeping UML in it you're already worse off than using VSS >_> |
| 21:25 | < iospace> | McMartin: it's called class assignments -_- |
| 21:26 | < McMartin> | Heh |
| 21:26 | < McMartin> | As a student, I had a book called "UML for Java Programmers" |
| 21:26 | < McMartin> | 75% of the book is "Don't" rephrased in various ways |
| 21:29 | < celticminstrel> | I tried /whois on you; it didn't work. :P |
| 21:29 | < celticminstrel> | ^ iospace |
| 21:32 | | * iospace mucks with celticminstrel's low level drivers |
| 21:32 | < celticminstrel> | ... |
| 21:37 | < iospace> | :D |
| 21:37 | < iospace> | am i PIO or MMIO |
| 21:37 | < iospace> | YOU DECIDE |
| 21:37 | < McMartin> | Massively Multiplayer I/O? |
| 21:37 | < McMartin> | Dude, TMI |
| 21:37 | < McMartin> | *Way* TMI. |
| 21:37 | < iospace> | ? |
| 21:37 | < McMartin> | (As a Californian, pre-emptive assertion that "Dude" is in fact gender-neutral) |
| 21:38 | < iospace> | i call everyone dude anyway |
| 21:38 | < McMartin> | Perhaps this war has been one |
| 21:38 | < McMartin> | *won |
| 21:38 | < McMartin> | TMI = "Too Much Information" |
| 21:38 | < iospace> | also, how is that TMI? |
| 21:38 | < Alek> | "Bro" may also be gender-neutral. >_> |
| 21:39 | < iospace> | Alek: to some, not me though so please don't call me that |
| 21:39 | < McMartin> | I'm pretending "Massively Multiplayer I/O" is something disgusting and/or scandalous when applie to people~ |
| 21:39 | < iospace> | ... |
| 21:39 | < iospace> | memory mapped you twatwaffle |
| 21:39 | < McMartin> | "Bro" is not the same thing as "guy" =P |
| 21:39 | < Alek> | mmkay. |
| 21:39 | < Alek> | :P |
| 21:39 | < iospace> | McMartin: lets not be cute shall we? -_- |
| 21:39 | < McMartin> | ^_^ |
| 21:40 | < Alek> | the = eyes make me think of weird comic-strip animals. |
| 21:40 | < McMartin> | I should probably eat lunch |
| 21:40 | < Alek> | seconded. |
| 21:40 | < celticminstrel> | Twatwaffle? :O |
| 21:40 | < iospace> | ^_^ |
| 21:41 | < McMartin> | British English has the best obscenities, for serious |
| 21:42 | < iospace> | wanker |
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| --- Log closed Sat Dec 10 00:00:11 2011 |