| --- Log opened Wed Sep 28 00:00:49 2011 |
| 00:09 | < celticminstrel> | (They're also suggesting that students either use Dev C++, or use Eclipse with the libraries obtainable via Dev C++.) |
| 00:10 | < McMartin> | DevC++, really |
| 00:11 | < McMartin> | That hasn't been maintained in almost a decade |
| 00:11 | < celticminstrel> | Yup... though I wasn't aware it was quite that long. |
| 00:16 | < McMartin> | I want to say 2004 or thereabouts |
| 00:23 | < celticminstrel> | I can't quite remember, but I think that's around the time my high school teacher was recommending it. |
| 00:23 | < McMartin> | "The libraries obtainable via Dev-C++" is MinGW, which is reasonable |
| 00:23 | < celticminstrel> | And OpenGL. |
| 00:24 | < celticminstrel> | GLUI and GLEW |
| 00:24 | < celticminstrel> | Apparently downloadable from within Dev C++ somewhere. |
| 00:24 | < celticminstrel> | Looked a bit like Eclipse's marketplace thingy. |
| 00:25 | < TheWatcher> | (Feb 2005 was the last DevC++ release, idly) |
| 00:27 | < TheWatcher> | (you /can/ get it to work with later versions of mingw... if you really want) |
| 00:27 | < TheWatcher> | (and like pain) |
| 00:28 | < McMartin> | (Of course, if you don't want that you can fire up Code::Blocks, which is to say, PAIN INC) |
| 00:28 | < celticminstrel> | Do you think my use of STL stuff might cause problems, or should it be fine? |
| 00:29 | < celticminstrel> | His sample code does include iostream though it doesn't use it (using printf instead). |
| 00:29 | < McMartin> | STL has been reasonably standard since 2005 or so. |
| 00:34 | | * TheWatcher has retreated back to primarily linux dev for his c/c++ stuff when he has a choice, given the fantastically dire state of OSS compilers/compilation environments on windows. Needs to get his arse in gear and wrangle MSVC eventually |
| 00:39 | < McMartin> | MSVC has its own pile of pain and hatred. |
| 00:44 | < celticminstrel> | Eh, it worked well enough for me when I had to use it. I think that was version... 5? 6? Not sure, but not even the most recent at the time I think. |
| 00:44 | < McMartin> | TW: Windows is still better than Mac >_< |
| 00:49 | <@Namegduf> | My theory is that Steve Jobs actually *hated* programmers. |
| 00:49 | <@Namegduf> | It's the only explanation. |
| 00:50 | < TheWatcher> | McM: so I hear :/ |
| 00:50 | <@Namegduf> | It only gets worse, too. |
| 00:50 | | Derakon[AFK] is now known as Derakon |
| 00:51 | < TheWatcher> | Ullo Dera |
| 00:51 | <@Namegduf> | If you program for any of their other platforms, they can unilaterally or even retroactively deny you access, and you don't get to find out if your code is actually going to be allowed to run until after you've done all the work. |
| 00:51 | <@Namegduf> | But because it's profitable people stick at it. I think it's just... crazy. |
| 00:53 | <@Derakon> | Hullo, TW. |
| 01:16 | < celticminstrel> | That's why I'm fairly unlikely to program for iPhone. |
| 01:16 | < celticminstrel> | Or iPad. |
| 01:17 | | shade_of_cpux is now known as cpux |
| 01:21 | < gnolam> | Also, as a friend of mine put it: "Never use a Mac to code. Just... don't." |
| 01:22 | < gnolam> | (Before going on a 15 minute rant on all the completely FUBAR design choices in OS X and the Apple keyboards/mice) |
| 01:23 | | You're now known as TheWatcher[T-2] |
| 01:25 | < celticminstrel> | The keyboards are fine. The mice, yeah. |
| 01:25 | < celticminstrel> | I don't think I like the mice. |
| 01:25 | < gnolam> | Apparently, they did not learn from the Puck Mouse (A POX BE ON ITS DEVELOPERS), so their last one is "the world's most retarded mouse [...] an ugly and unergonomic piece of plastic that can't be held and doesn't respond to things you do [...] it's like a malevolent little soap". |
| 01:25 | < celticminstrel> | You're referring to the Magic Mouse? |
| 01:26 | < celticminstrel> | I still have the Mighty Mouse, which can't be cleaned without breaking it open. |
| 01:26 | | You're now known as TheWatcher[zZzZ] |
| 01:28 | < gnolam> | From his descriptions, the keyboards are in no way fine. |
| 01:28 | < gnolam> | The keyboard layout is apparently some kind of fucked-up Apple invention. |
| 01:28 | < gnolam> | There is no delete key. |
| 01:28 | < Vornicus> | mine has a delete key |
| 01:28 | < Vornicus> | (no insert key though) |
| 01:30 | < gnolam> | No Page Up/Page Down/Home/End... "but that's ok, because I hear they don't work like you want them to anyway. End takes you to the end of the document, for example -- but the cursor doesn't keep up. It only scrolls." |
| 01:30 | < celticminstrel> | Oh, true; the basic keyboard is stupid. It's a laptop keyboard scaled up. The extended keyboard is fine, though. |
| 01:31 | < Vornicus> | the hell program is he using |
| 01:31 | < celticminstrel> | You can get del, pgup, pgdn, home, and end with fn-delete, fn-up, fn-down, fn-left, and fn-right respectively, but really that shouldn't be necessary on a desktop keyboard if you ask me. |
| 01:32 | < McMartin> | "End takes you to the end of the document" |
| 01:32 | < McMartin> | I am an emacs user, this is in fact what End is for. |
| 01:32 | < McMartin> | But yes, the cursor doesn't move in TextEdit if you do this unless you also hold Option. |
| 01:32 | < celticminstrel> | I think he's referring to the fact that standard behaviour for home/end/pgup/pgdn on Mac is to move the viewport without moving the cursor. |
| 01:33 | < celticminstrel> | To move the cursor you use cmd+arrow keys. |
| 01:33 | < celticminstrel> | Except in Word, which does its own thing. |
| 01:37 | < gnolam> | So besides lacking standard keys, having an absolutely retarded usage for some of the standard keys you /might/ be able to get if you're lucky, and forcing you to relearn your entire keyboard layout, they're ok? Sorry, that's not my definition of "fine". :P |
| 01:37 | < gnolam> | (FTR, he had some choice word on the actual physical construction as well.) |
| 01:38 | < celticminstrel> | Wow. Apparently "set" moved over by one on the keyboard. gives "dry". I never noticed that before. |
| 01:38 | < celticminstrel> | ^ minus that extraneous . |
| 01:39 | < celticminstrel> | gnolam: I have to disagree on the usage of home etc. |
| 01:40 | < celticminstrel> | It's still a useful function (you can scroll down and retain your cursor position), and if you need to move the cursor you just use a different key combination. |
| 01:40 | < celticminstrel> | But you really need to get the extended keyboard. |
| 01:40 | < celticminstrel> | The basic one is stupid. |
| 01:41 | < McMartin> | Scrolling the viewport without moving the cursor should not be the more fundamental operation, though. |
| 01:41 | < celticminstrel> | It's fine on a laptop. Not so much on a desktop. |
| 01:41 | < celticminstrel> | Neither operation is more fundamental. |
| 01:41 | < Vornicus> | or you could just use a plain windows keyboard. it works too. you'll want to tell it to switch around a few of the modifier keys though |
| 01:42 | < celticminstrel> | It's just that the key combinations aren't what you're used to. |
| 01:42 | < McMartin> | I'm going to say outright that "I want to be one page down" shouldn't require a three-key chord |
| 01:52 | < celticminstrel> | Oh wait, there's actually no equivalent for that one that I can think of... |
| 01:52 | < celticminstrel> | Option-down is close. |
| 01:53 | < celticminstrel> | But that's technically something like "next paragraph". |
| 01:54 | < celticminstrel> | I haven't missed that behaviour of page down, though. |
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| 07:29 | | * Janus set out to work more on the rendering thing tonight. Ends up drawing a girl on a robot horse instead. Which is kind of close if you think about it. |
| 07:41 | < Vornicus> | Something was in fact rendered! |
| 07:41 | < Janus> | Gotta quit after a while though, my hand starts hurtin' for some reason. I'll try and finish it tomorrow, but I must show someone! Haven't drawn in months. http://goo.gl/u3o2s |
| 07:43 | <@Tamber> | :D |
| 07:45 | < Vornicus> | I like the way her hair spirals at the end. |
| 07:46 | < Vornicus> | That is quite awesome. |
| 07:47 | < Janus> | Thanks! |
| 07:48 | < Janus> | Someday, I'll get to combine my terrible code with my terrible drawing. And it'll be ... well, the sum of it's parts, certainly |
| 07:49 | < Vornicus> | Heh |
| 07:55 | < Janus> | Oh, oh! While the room is dead and I'm feverishly wasting your time showing you stuff! May as well show you this! http://goo.gl/CKrKe |
| 07:58 | | * Janus needs to repick up this waste of time. Kind of lost steam trying to make a huge flash over it |
| 08:14 | < Janus> | Ah! I think I got the hang of this VBO nonsense now! |
| 08:16 | < Janus> | I guess once I build the vertice list and stuff it in memory, I only need change it if the world changes, and only at that spot. And I can use the index buffer... thing to determine which of those vertices get rendered, updating it every frame |
| 08:17 | <@Tamber> | :) |
| 08:23 | < Janus> | Also apparently boost is kind of okay. Even if I have no clue what half of the things in it do. It's documentation is written in another language. |
| 08:28 | < Janus> | The allocation pool's doc is like trying to read a datasheet for a B-15 |
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| 10:03 | | * TheWatcher readsup |
| 10:04 | < TheWatcher> | Some bits of boost are useful, but I really do think there's some kind of pissing contents between the authors over how massively esoteric and opaque they can make their documentation, yeah. |
| 10:05 | < TheWatcher> | *contest |
| 10:06 | < TheWatcher> | (it is vaguely depressing that there have been a few times where writing my own class has been faster than trying to work out WTF the boost docs are on about. Might not be as generic and flexible, but ffs) |
| 10:09 | < Janus> | I wish I could just goto the class/function declarations in the headers and see, but they never leave any comments, and 2/3rds of the classes are base classes for other classes |
| 10:12 | < TheWatcher> | Comments are a sign of weakness~ |
| 10:12 | < TheWatcher> | Real Programmers should be able to look at the source filename and understand what it is doing!~ |
| 10:15 | | * Lingerance needs to get in the habit of commenting stuff |
| 10:16 | <@Lingerance> | But yeah, it took me a year to figgure out how to use Boost's RNGs D: |
| 10:17 | <@Lingerance> | (Long while back) |
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| 11:57 | | * TheWatcher sets about restructuring core chunks of this webapp |
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| 15:10 | | * kwsn grumbles |
| 15:11 | < gnolam> | ... dang, these people deliver fast |
| 15:12 | <@Tamber> | ACME Air Delivery? |
| 15:14 | < gnolam> | I ordered some more electronics components yesterday. They were waiting in my mailbox when I got home today. |
| 15:14 | <@Tamber> | :) |
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| 16:06 | < gnolam> | There. One dodgy cable and one broken cable replaced. |
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| 21:24 | <@froztbyte> | gnolam: nice :) |
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| --- Log closed Thu Sep 29 00:00:06 2011 |