| --- Log opened Mon Sep 26 00:00:16 2011 |
| 01:05 | | You're now known as TheWatcher[T-2] |
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| 06:00 | < Reiver> | Hey Vornicus |
| 06:00 | < Reiver> | Would you mind a little quick Mathcraft for a friend of mine? |
| 06:01 | < Reiver> | He's working on a wargame where soldiers roll a dice that hits on a 5+ and Heroes roll two dice on a 4+. You can have up to six soldiers in a stack, with a Hero on top of it. |
| 06:02 | < Reiver> | His current 'synergy rule' for a certain type of soldier that gets awesomer around Heroes is that you can sacrifice the Soldiers attacks (1x 5+ each) to grant the Hero rerolls of their dice pool (2x 4+), one reroll per soldier thus used. |
| 06:02 | < Reiver> | At what point is this not useful? |
| 06:02 | < Reiver> | And at what point is this not useful if you sacrifice a soldier per dice rerolled? |
| 06:02 | | * Reiver has a suspicion the latter means 'never use it', but... |
| 06:10 | | * Vornicus has a check. |
| 06:10 | < Vornicus> | So this is a pool-shaped, success counting system? |
| 06:11 | < Vornicus> | And the rerolls: the reroll means you /must/ reroll both in the first thing, and in both situations you must take the second result? |
| 06:14 | < Vornicus> | Also, I take it you're rolling the hero first and then checking whether you wish to sacrifice a soldier's roll to reroll the hero's? |
| 06:14 | < Vornicus> | Or...? |
| 06:17 | | * Reiver thinks |
| 06:17 | < Reiver> | You're choosing whether or not to set your soldiers aside first, I think |
| 06:17 | < Reiver> | Though it would certainly make sense to do it retroactively, haha. |
| 06:18 | < Reiver> | I think you actually do one soldier per dice reroll, now that you phrased your question re: pool rerolls. |
| 06:23 | | * Vornicus fiddles, tries to clarify |
| 06:24 | < Vornicus> | If you have to set aside soldiers for that first... may you keep the hero's results if you find them satisfactory? Even if that means the other soldier's reroll opportunities are wasted? |
| 06:25 | < Reiver> | Correct |
| 06:25 | < Reiver> | Else you'd just be rolling six times to see what the final die was, right~ |
| 06:25 | < Vornicus> | RIght. |
| 06:26 | < Vornicus> | Okay, let me run some numbers and see what I get. |
| 06:26 | < Reiver> | hooray :) |
| 06:29 | < Vornicus> | Hm. Okay. If you've gotten one success on a hero roll, the EV of a single reroll is 0. |
| 06:29 | < Vornicus> | er, +0, from where you are now. |
| 06:30 | < Vornicus> | (this is assuming you must reroll both when doing a reroll.) |
| 06:30 | < Vornicus> | (or, since you're paying for it, -1/3. But that's a sunk cost by the time you decide whether to do a reroll.) |
| 06:34 | < Reiver> | I See |
| 06:37 | < Vornicus> | But if you've got a 0, or a 2, then you already know your choice as to whether to reroll |
| 06:37 | < Vornicus> | And those take up half your possibilities. |
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| 06:45 | | * Vornicus fiddlefiddles |
| 06:46 | < Vornicus> | Okay, preliminary results, just from thinking at it |
| 06:47 | | Derakon is now known as Derakon[AFK] |
| 06:49 | < Vornicus> | If your soldier allows the reroll of 1 die: EV of hero + 1 soldier is 1 3/8 for reroll chance vs 1 1/3 for just straight. Former is higher, so it's always a good idea to include one reroll chance. |
| 06:52 | < Vornicus> | For two soldiers: straight up is 1 16/24 (2/3); one reroll is 1 17/24, so one reroll is still better (in both cases the improvement is just 1/24); two rerolls is... hm. after one reroll you've got 1/8 of the time 0, 3/8 1, 4/8 2, so this adds another 1/4, or... 1 15/24 (5/8), which is Not an improvement: it's 1/24 /less/ than no reroll chances at all. |
| 06:54 | < Vornicus> | There's a bit of a tradeoff: if you use a soldier, your ev increases slightly; if you don't, your maximum is higher (though note that you get that maximum only one time in 12 on soldier + hero) |
| 06:57 | < Vornicus> | If your soldier reroll requires rerolling /both/ dice, then the problem is hard enough that I can't do it in my head because there's some strategy involved in deciding whether to reroll. |
| 07:32 | | Rhamphoryncus [rhamph@FFAAA3.3FB6E7.D3A0EC.06BAA7] has joined #code |
| 07:35 | < Vornicus> | Hm. It seems clear that if you have more than one reroll on the both dice mode, the EV goes up more. |
| 07:45 | < Vornicus> | QUestion is, whether that increase is enough to justify. |
| 07:46 | < Vornicus> | OKay, once again. +1 soldier, no reroll, is EV 1 1/3 |
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| 07:47 | <@Lingerance> | Is this with d6s? |
| 07:47 | < Vornicus> | Yes. |
| 07:48 | <@Lingerance> | I'd help but, I'm more familliar with the math on d10s |
| 07:48 | < Vornicus> | ...I'm getting 1 1/4 for one reroll. |
| 07:48 | < Vornicus> | Which is lower. So that's bad. |
| 07:49 | < Vornicus> | THree rerolls is never worth it: EV for no reroll purchases is 2, given three soldiers, and that's high enough that that's not going to get beaten by even a largefinite number of rerolls. |
| 07:55 | < Vornicus> | two... no, that's not worth it either. 1 2/3 vs, um... |
| 07:57 | < Vornicus> | 1 7/16. |
| 07:57 | < Vornicus> | Okay, CONCLUSION |
| 07:58 | < Vornicus> | Reiver, this is the conclusion: If using a soldier allows you to reroll one of the hero dice, it is generally a good idea to spend one soldier; however, this does reduce your maximum, so in situations where you have like one soldier with the hero, you may wish to not do that just for the chance of rolling a critical. |
| 07:59 | < Vornicus> | If, on the other hand, using a soldier allows you to reroll /both/ of the hero dice at once, it is never a good idea to spend soldiers. |
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| 08:50 | | You're now known as TheWatcher |
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| 10:09 | | Vornicus is now known as Vornicus-Latens |
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| 11:57 | < Janus> | Apparently if you tell opengl to render 67108864 quads, it goes really slow |
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| 15:55 | | * kwsn stabs EFI |
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| 17:36 | < Vornicus-Latens> | That is a few more quads than are usually technically necessary. |
| 18:48 | | Vornicus-Latens is now known as Vornicus |
| 18:56 | | * kwsn is so unbelievabily frustrated right now |
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| 22:42 | | * gnolam eyes Evince's versioning system. |
| 22:46 | < gnolam> | 2.32.0-144.1, really? |
| 22:50 | < celticminstrel> | What? |
| 22:50 | < gnolam> | 0-144? :P |
| 22:54 | < gnolam> | What the heck is that supposed to mean? |
| 22:56 | < McMartin> | Ordinarily, I read a dash in version numbers as "this is where the software's version number ends and our distro's revision number begins" |
| 22:56 | < McMartin> | But I'm not used to *that* having subversions. |
| 22:57 | < gnolam> | I would accept that, except 2.32.0-144.1 appears to be a later version than 2.32.3. |
| 22:59 | < gnolam> | Err |
| 22:59 | < gnolam> | Nevermind |
| 23:00 | < gnolam> | My mind apparently corrected 2.30 to 2.32. |
| 23:17 | | Derakon [chriswei@Nightstar-f68d7eb4.ca.comcast.net] has joined #code |
| 23:18 | < Derakon> | projectionAxis = set([2, 3, 4]).difference(set(axes.keys())).pop() |
| 23:18 | < Derakon> | Seems like there ought to be a better way to do "give me the value from [2, 3, 4] that is not in this dict". |
| 23:22 | | You're now known as TheWatcher[T-2] |
| 23:23 | < Vornicus> | [2,3,4] has a name? |
| 23:23 | < Derakon> | No, it's hardcoded. |
| 23:23 | < celticminstrel> | I like {3,4,5}, but of course that's 2.7. :/ |
| 23:23 | < Derakon> | (They represent axes -- 0 for wavelength, 1 for time, and 2/3/4 for Z/Y/X. |
| 23:23 | < Derakon> | ) |
| 23:23 | < celticminstrel> | Also apparently I mistyped the values. Fun. |
| 23:24 | < celticminstrel> | Not that it matters. |
| 23:24 | < Vornicus> | Ah. Give it a name and it's a little easier: a[(a in axes).index(True)] |
| 23:24 | < Vornicus> | er, False |
| 23:24 | | You're now known as TheWatcher[zZzZ] |
| 23:24 | < celticminstrel> | Wait what? |
| 23:24 | < Derakon> | Hm, that would work, yes. |
| 23:25 | < Vornicus> | a[(k in axes for k in a).index(False) |
| 23:25 | < Vornicus> | I should get it right |
| 23:25 | < Derakon> | ] |
| 23:25 | < Derakon> | :) |
| 23:25 | < Vornicus> | D: |
| 23:26 | < Derakon> | http://www.xkcdb.com/?8177 |
| 23:26 | < Derakon> | Though TBQH I find the explicit set notation to be more clear than the "convert a list of values into a list of "am I in the dict" booleans. |
| 23:26 | < Derakon> | " |
| 23:27 | < Derakon> | Man, closure of new contexts is a #code fail today. |
| 23:30 | < Vornicus> | Okay, cleaner this time, and without the fuckup of generators not having index. a[[a not in axes for k in a].index(True)] |
| 23:30 | < Derakon> | s/a[[a/a[[k/ |
| 23:30 | < Derakon> | Or something. |
| 23:31 | < McMartin> | The implication is that it is the unclosed context that makes :( mean you feel bad |
| 23:31 | < Vornicus> | Oh for fuck's sae. |
| 23:32 | < Vornicus> | I give up, I should not code at all today. |
| 23:32 | | * Derakon patpats. |
| 23:32 | < Derakon> | At least you aren't a forklift operator. |
| 23:32 | < McMartin> | So, uh, if you seduce someone with rice wine, is that a for fucks sake? |
| 23:32 | < Derakon> | If it's really good, it's a four-fucks sake. |
| 23:37 | < Derakon> | Commit message: "Fixed the timewise projected slice generation." |
| 23:37 | < Derakon> | Context is going to be a bit important for understanding the commit history on this project. |
| 23:48 | < gnolam> | McMartin: :) |
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| --- Log closed Tue Sep 27 00:00:34 2011 |