| --- Log opened Fri Aug 05 00:00:28 2011 |
| --- Day changed Fri Aug 05 2011 |
| 00:00 | | * gnolam snerks. |
| 00:17 | < Vornicus> | Yeah if there's one thing I dislike about python it's that I can run an overnight job and not discover I fucked up something silly in the postprocessing until moring. |
| 00:20 | <@McMartin> | By the way, when I mean "multiple times in the same block, I mean like this: |
| 00:20 | <@McMartin> | if f: |
| 00:20 | <@McMartin> | return g(f + x * y) |
| 00:20 | <@McMartin> | return 18/0 |
| 00:20 | <@McMartin> | return 18/0 |
| 00:20 | <@McMartin> | if False: |
| 00:20 | <@McMartin> | return 18/0 |
| 00:20 | < Vornicus> | |
| 00:20 | < Vornicus> | WTF WTF WTF |
| 00:21 | <@McMartin> | One of the nice things about Java is that the above code is literally illegal in it. |
| 00:21 | < Vornicus> | Yeah. |
| 00:21 | <@McMartin> | This is often a pain in the arse - among other things, it means you can't condition out code, but it's a stick to beat Vlad with. |
| 00:22 | < Vornicus> | "unreachable code" is one error I certainly do not mind. |
| 00:23 | < Vornicus> | anyway my brains have now sploded, it is bedtime. |
| 00:23 | | Vornicus is now known as Vornicus-Latens |
| 00:25 | < Reiver> | McMartin: I, uh, presume he is being willfully obtuse? |
| 00:25 | <@McMartin> | I'm not sure if anyone ever asked. |
| 00:26 | <@McMartin> | I assume he had some kind of hold on the head of the company that prevented him from being catapulted from a skyscraper |
| 00:27 | < Reiver> | That kind of stunt is "Has pictures(tm)" material |
| 00:33 | < gnolam> | ... that code is... I literally don't know what to say. |
| 00:34 | <@McMartin> | "it was a safeguard to insure that potentially dangerous / buggy / old code would never run to completion" |
| 00:35 | <@McMartin> | Aha, I see |
| 00:35 | <@McMartin> | Actually, he was eventually let go |
| 00:35 | <@McMartin> | It took a long time to get this to happen, though, because the manager didn't understand the scope of the problem. |
| 00:35 | <@McMartin> | Understandable in that if I were a manager and saw the reports I wouldn't believe it myself~ |
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| 00:49 | < kwsn> | hey all |
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| 03:21 | | * McMartin resists the urge to rewrite this object in functional style. |
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| 06:34 | | * Kazriko ponders. |
| 06:34 | < Kazriko> | After 6 years of Ubuntu, I'm somehow tempted to go back to Debian. |
| 06:36 | < AnnoDomini> | Did you learn how to configure Debian, then? :P |
| 06:37 | < Kazriko> | Naa, I used Debian for 6 years before switching to Ubuntu. |
| 06:37 | < Kazriko> | Ubuntu just gives you much newer software usually... but I'm finding that the new Unity interface has really wrecked the interface. Even the classic gnome desktop doesn't work so well anymore. |
| 06:37 | | * AnnoDomini has been using Debian for perhaps a year. |
| 06:37 | < PinkFreud> | Kazriko: best of both worlds here. I tyically use debian on my workstation and servers, ubuntu on the netbook and media pc. |
| 06:38 | < Kazriko> | That's a good compromise. |
| 06:38 | < PinkFreud> | one of the two media pcs currently runs debian lenny with some stuff shoehorned in from squeeze. I'm considering rebuilding with ubuntu. |
| 06:38 | < AnnoDomini> | When I was reinstalling my dualboot Windows, I couldn't make heads or tails of the Ubuntu GUI when I was using that to recover GRUB2. |
| 06:39 | | * Kazriko never dualboots systems anymore. |
| 06:39 | < PinkFreud> | same. I use VMs for that. >.> |
| 06:40 | < AnnoDomini> | Some games don't run in VMs. |
| 06:40 | | * AnnoDomini tries VM then WINE then resorts to dualboot. |
| 06:41 | < PinkFreud> | meh. I have a 'dedicated' game pc for that sort of thing. |
| 06:42 | < AnnoDomini> | I will have one too, once I disregard females and acquire currency. |
| 06:42 | | Thaqui [Thaqui@27B34E.D54D49.F53FA1.6A113C] has joined #code |
| 06:42 | < Kazriko> | I have a windows pc for games and work that requires windows. |
| 06:42 | < Kazriko> | and a linux system for everything else. :) |
| 06:42 | | Kindamoody is now known as Kindamoody[zZz] |
| 06:42 | < PinkFreud> | (by 'dedicated', I mean that it typically boots ubuntu over the network to run xbmc. when I need to test hw, I pull it out of the bedroom, and haul it to the workbench. when I make my way up to a twice-yearly local game convention, it comes with me, where I boot windows off it's hdd for gaming. :) ) |
| 06:42 | < AnnoDomini> | Not that I use Windows much, really. The best games were made before 2000 and require DOS Box. |
| 06:43 | < Kazriko> | Linux box doesn't need to be as high end though, works great on a dual core. |
| 06:43 | < PinkFreud> | for such an old machine, using a crappy MSI board, it's damned versatile. :) |
| 06:43 | < Kazriko> | Debating pushing it out to the garage and installing xenserver on it and the other box I have there. |
| 06:44 | < Kazriko> | getting a cheap Zacate or Llano system to replace it as my linux desktop. |
| 06:44 | < PinkFreud> | xen is fun - even more so when it works. :) |
| 06:44 | < Kazriko> | We use Xenserver at work, it's more reliable than plain xen so far. |
| 06:44 | < PinkFreud> | finally got the fileserver upgraded to debian squeeze and xen 4.0 |
| 06:45 | < Kazriko> | Want to get a Synology rack mount file server to do the VM's hard drives. |
| 06:45 | < PinkFreud> | I've been using regular xen for years. it's had it's problems, but I've largely had good experiences with it. |
| 06:46 | < PinkFreud> | had to resort to patching and building my own kernels for a while, though, as lenny's xen kernel was downright dangerous to use. |
| 06:46 | < Kazriko> | That's another thing I haven't done much in the last 6 years. Build kernels... |
| 06:46 | < Kazriko> | I'll have to do more of that on debian. |
| 06:47 | < PinkFreud> | Kazriko: I haven't done much of that, either, except in very specific cases. |
| 06:47 | < Kazriko> | All of my debian systems used to have custom kernels, habit I guess. |
| 06:48 | < PinkFreud> | (like when I wanted 3d support for my rv610, without waiting for debian's glacial pace, or when lenny's xen kernel exposed lockup bugs with md) |
| 06:49 | < PinkFreud> | I'll use stock kernels first, and only roll my own if something's wrong. |
| 06:49 | < Kazriko> | hmm. |
| 06:50 | < PinkFreud> | I have more than enough to do otherwise than to worry about building custom kernels for all of my boxes. |
| 06:50 | < PinkFreud> | (and I include VMs in that :) ) |
| 06:50 | < Kazriko> | Me too, now. |
| 06:51 | < PinkFreud> | between kvm on my workstation, and xen on both the fileserver and Atom 330 that runs my router / general service gateway ... |
| 06:51 | < PinkFreud> | (interestingly, xen runs beautifully on the Atom) |
| 06:51 | < Kazriko> | Hmm. Synology 2-disc device supports iSCSI. Maybe I should start with one of those... |
| 06:52 | < PinkFreud> | nice. |
| 06:52 | < PinkFreud> | never bothered with iSCSI here. a bit too complex for my needs. |
| 06:52 | | AbuDhabi [annodomini@Nightstar-e0feb09d.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #code |
| 06:52 | < Kazriko> | $200, could throw in 1.5tb drives and mirror them. |
| 06:52 | < PinkFreud> | AoE is simpler, and works in the situations where I require it. |
| 06:52 | < Kazriko> | I only want iSCSI so I can fail and migrate vm's between two physical boxes easily. |
| 06:53 | | * PinkFreud nods |
| 06:53 | < PinkFreud> | AoE should be able to accomplish that too. |
| 06:53 | < Kazriko> | ATA over Ethernet? |
| 06:53 | < jerith> | Yeah. |
| 06:53 | < PinkFreud> | in my case, I largely use it to export lvs from the fileserver for both VM use and for the occasional netboot. |
| 06:53 | < PinkFreud> | Kazriko: yep |
| 06:54 | < Kazriko> | The synology doesn't seem to support that one. :( |
| 06:54 | < PinkFreud> | AoE doesn't have the complex authentication mechanisms that iSCSI has. |
| 06:54 | < PinkFreud> | awwww. |
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| 06:54 | < PinkFreud> | it's actually fairly simplistic, in fact. |
| 06:55 | < Kazriko> | http://www.synology.com/products/spec.php?product_name=RS411&lang=us#p_submenu << looking at something like this long term, About $600-700, 4 disc raid with 2 nics |
| 06:56 | | Kindamoody[zZz] is now known as Kindamoody |
| 06:56 | < Kazriko> | Can run redundant paths to the servers so the only single fail point is the NAS box itself. |
| 06:58 | <@McMartin> | wtf |
| 06:58 | <@McMartin> | http://www.engadget.com/2011/08/04/hackers-break-into-subaru-outback-via-text-me ssage/ |
| 06:59 | < Kazriko> | nod... mitm on cell networks. |
| 06:59 | < Kazriko> | Someone has made a drone aircraft that does similar things recently... |
| 07:05 | < Kazriko> | That's one thing that makes me nervous about some of the cell phone infrastructure out there. I've been trying to find a good vpn encryption solution to put on the other end of those cell modems. |
| 07:05 | < Kazriko> | I secure them as much as I can without that, but... |
| 07:05 | < Kazriko> | Still vulnerable to a cell tower mitm attack... |
| 07:06 | <@McMartin> | /t techdesigners All that crazy shit you see l33t h4xx0rz doing in cyberpunk books, games, and films? THOSE ARE CAUTIONARY TALES, NOT BLUEPRINTS. |
| 07:07 | < Kazriko> | I asked my boss about getting a Dreamplug box for testing to do security for cell modems. :) |
| 07:12 | < Kazriko> | $350 for a 2tb raid-1 non-redundant nic iscsi setup. $970 for a 4tb redundant nic raid-10 one. |
| 07:20 | < PinkFreud> | not bad |
| 07:21 | < PinkFreud> | my fileserver is a monster, using a mix of ide, sata, and ultra320 drives. |
| 07:22 | < Kazriko> | My main file server is ide and sata mix. My more modern systems are all sata. |
| 07:22 | < Kazriko> | The file server is very much a hybrid raid though... |
| 07:22 | | * PinkFreud nods |
| 07:22 | < Kazriko> | a 1tb sata drive mirrored to 3 separate smaller drives. |
| 07:23 | < PinkFreud> | I actually have three mirrors in there - 2x250GB ide, 2x1TB sata, and 2x300GB u320 |
| 07:23 | < PinkFreud> | the rest are single drives. |
| 07:23 | < PinkFreud> | (9 total) |
| 07:23 | < Kazriko> | that's cool. I wish I had paired up drives on that system... |
| 07:24 | < PinkFreud> | heh. I recently obtained the second drive for the 1TB mirror. |
| 07:24 | < PinkFreud> | I've had the first for a couple years now |
| 07:24 | < Kazriko> | Hah. it looks like i only have 2 drives now mirroring the 1tb. |
| 07:24 | < PinkFreud> | the OS was on a single 500GB sata drive. now that i've upgraded it, I also wound up installing the OS on the u320 mirror. |
| 07:25 | < Kazriko> | an 80gig and a 160gig. |
| 07:25 | < Kazriko> | the rest is un-mirrored... :( |
| 07:25 | < PinkFreud> | uh oh |
| 07:25 | < Kazriko> | Good thing I back that up to the 1tb mirror on Teela here. :) |
| 07:25 | < PinkFreud> | the u320 is also the only mirror that's actually hw raid. the rest are all software. |
| 07:25 | | * PinkFreud nods |
| 07:26 | < Kazriko> | Except at work, everything I do is software raid. |
| 07:26 | < Kazriko> | At work they have that raid-5 hp NAS box. |
| 07:26 | | * PinkFreud nods |
| 07:26 | < Kazriko> | 1.8tb storage... and we're down to 400gig free. |
| 07:27 | < PinkFreud> | ouch |
| 07:27 | < Kazriko> | So, can you do AoE serving from Linux? |
| 07:28 | < Kazriko> | Thinking about what I can do with the development cluster to do proper failover... |
| 07:28 | < Kazriko> | (No NAS on the dev cluster, all local storage.) |
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| 07:30 | < PinkFreud> | er, yep |
| 07:30 | < Kazriko> | Does it require whole drives, or can you do partitions? |
| 07:31 | < PinkFreud> | look into the aoe-tools and vblade or vblade-persist |
| 07:31 | < PinkFreud> | it requires block devices. :) |
| 07:31 | < PinkFreud> | that's it. |
| 07:31 | < PinkFreud> | those block devices can be abstracted as much or as little as you want. |
| 07:32 | < Kazriko> | thinking of mirroring a partition from the host server and a partition from the other server together... |
| 07:32 | < PinkFreud> | I tend to share logical volumes via AoE |
| 07:32 | < PinkFreud> | I'd imagine that to be horribly inefficient, but possible. |
| 07:33 | < PinkFreud> | if you want to do that, you might be better off creating a seperate gigabit network for AoE. |
| 07:33 | < PinkFreud> | make sure you have a switch which supports jumbo frames - it might just make that mirror usable. |
| 07:33 | < Kazriko> | possibly. Of course, I could just ask them to buy me a $350 Synology NAS and do it the right way. :) |
| 07:33 | < PinkFreud> | :) |
| 07:35 | < PinkFreud> | cheap switches with 9k jumbo frame support exist, though |
| 07:35 | < Kazriko> | I think my netgear gigabit switches have that support. |
| 07:35 | < PinkFreud> | you could literally create your own storage network cheaply. |
| 07:36 | < PinkFreud> | I'm doing AoE over my main network for the moment, but then again, I'm not trying to create a mirror across network devices. :) |
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| 07:36 | < Kazriko> | yeah. If I had one more server box, I could make that the storage box. |
| 07:37 | < PinkFreud> | oh, one other thing about AoE - it's completely independent of IP |
| 07:37 | < Kazriko> | I have 3 commodity linux boxes, all Athlon 64's of various types. The firewall's a 64 one-core, the other two are 64x2's. |
| 07:37 | < Kazriko> | a bit old, but work great for a toy/dev server. |
| 07:38 | < PinkFreud> | if you have a storage network, you don't actually need to assign ips to interfaces on that network |
| 07:38 | | * PinkFreud nods |
| 07:38 | < Kazriko> | Ubuntu 10.04 and KVM with Libvirt right now. |
| 07:38 | < PinkFreud> | my fileserver is a dual Opteron 280 (two 2.4G cores per cpu) |
| 07:38 | < PinkFreud> | sadly, being a first-gen Opteron, it lacks hvm support |
| 07:39 | < Kazriko> | right. :( |
| 07:39 | < PinkFreud> | but it does do pv xen quite well :) |
| 07:39 | < Kazriko> | yep. |
| 07:41 | < Kazriko> | http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813157228 << want to try this for a linux desktop. See how it fares with minimal processor + decent graphics. |
| 07:42 | < PinkFreud> | I'm intrigued by the AMD Fusion offerings |
| 07:42 | < PinkFreud> | when I'm ready to build another low-power box, I'm considering one of those as opposed to an Atom |
| 07:43 | < Kazriko> | I'd almost assuredly go with a bobcat over an atom, but I'm not sure if i'd pick a bobcat over the llano system. |
| 07:43 | < PinkFreud> | cute. they threw esata on that board. |
| 07:44 | < PinkFreud> | 4x onboard sata, 1x esata |
| 07:44 | < PinkFreud> | not bad for a little board like that. Intel purposefully hobbles their Atom chipset to limit the number of sata ports available, but some vendors have figured out ways around those limitations. |
| 07:44 | < Kazriko> | yeah, using southbridges and such? |
| 07:45 | < PinkFreud> | not sure how, but there are one or two higher end boards with a few spare sata ports :) |
| 07:46 | < PinkFreud> | ooh, max 16GB. one thing i like about AMD - they let Intel do all the hobbling they want, and compete on product specs. :) |
| 07:46 | < PinkFreud> | good luck finding an Atom board which supports 16GB of mem. |
| 07:46 | < Kazriko> | I don't buy intel products below the reasonably high end stuff anymore. |
| 07:46 | < Kazriko> | i5's and i7's only for me... |
| 07:46 | < PinkFreud> | only reason I bought the Atom was because AMD was late to the party. |
| 07:47 | < Kazriko> | I'm really disappointed with my Asus EEE901... |
| 07:47 | < PinkFreud> | meh, I care not about i5 and i7. |
| 07:47 | < PinkFreud> | Kazriko: the 330 is a different beast than the n series Atoms. |
| 07:47 | < PinkFreud> | first gen desktop/server board. |
| 07:47 | < PinkFreud> | dual core, 64 bit support. |
| 07:48 | < Kazriko> | I use a i7-920 at home and a PhenomIIx6 at work, They perform pretty much the same. |
| 07:48 | < PinkFreud> | I have a phenom x4 (first gen phenom, alas) in the living room media pc |
| 07:48 | < Kazriko> | I might buy one of those Lenovo Zacate laptops instead though. |
| 07:48 | < PinkFreud> | low power sucker, too |
| 07:49 | < PinkFreud> | also the quietest box I own :) |
| 07:49 | < Kazriko> | :) |
| 07:49 | < Kazriko> | The only problem I found with my phenom x4 was that Windows Server 2008 wouldn't run under KVM on it. |
| 07:50 | < Kazriko> | I slapped a athlon64x2 in its place, and it booted right up. |
| 07:50 | < PinkFreud> | huh, weird. |
| 07:50 | < PinkFreud> | I honestly haven't tried. that box runs a stripped down debian install with xbmc. |
| 07:50 | < PinkFreud> | that's the one I'm pondering moving to ubuntu on. |
| 07:50 | < Kazriko> | we briefly tried to switch to quad core on our dev cluster, and had to go back. :( |
| 07:50 | < PinkFreud> | perhaps after the ubuntu move, I'll try kvm. |
| 07:51 | < PinkFreud> | weird. |
| 07:51 | < PinkFreud> | my Q6600 workstation runs pretty much anything I throw at it in kvm. |
| 07:51 | < PinkFreud> | that's an old box now, but still more than capable. |
| 07:51 | < Kazriko> | the Athlon64x2's run everything I throw at them too. |
| 07:52 | | * PinkFreud nods |
| 07:52 | < Kazriko> | I took all of the old servers we had left and yoinked their hard drives out, imaged their hard drives, and all of them booted up perfectly in kvm. |
| 07:52 | < PinkFreud> | nice! |
| 07:53 | < Kazriko> | condensed 4 servers down to 1, later added a redundant node. |
| 07:53 | < PinkFreud> | always fun |
| 07:53 | < Kazriko> | now we're really fancy with all that other stuff I've mentioned before. |
| 07:53 | < Kazriko> | 15 virtual machines between the 4 hosts. |
| 07:53 | < PinkFreud> | not bad :) |
| 07:57 | < Kazriko> | that lenovo box is $300 and 15.6 inches |
| 07:57 | < PinkFreud> | oh? |
| 07:58 | < Kazriko> | http://www.bestbuy.com/site/Lenovo+-+Laptop+/+AMD+E-Series+Processor+/+15.6%22+D isplay+/+4GB+Memory+/+320GB+Hard+Drive+-+Black/2731052.p?id=1218347171491&skuId= 2731052 |
| 08:00 | < PinkFreud> | not bad |
| 08:02 | | * PinkFreud gives his drives a workout by shuffling LVs between them |
| 08:03 | < Kazriko> | That's something I need to spend some time on... logical volumes... |
| 08:03 | < PinkFreud> | now that I have all of the mirrors set up, I'm trying to make sure certain pieces of data are mirrored |
| 08:03 | < PinkFreud> | yeah. lvm has both it's upsides and it's downsides, but I find that the pros typically outweigh the cons. |
| 08:04 | < PinkFreud> | not having to worry about actual partitions anymore is a definite pro. |
| 08:07 | < Kazriko> | bah. it looks like that laptop is sold out everywhere. |
| 08:07 | < PinkFreud> | awww |
| 09:07 | | You're now known as TheWatcher |
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| 12:39 | | * kw\t-2 has to go, later all |
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| 15:29 | < Derakon[AFK]> | https://github.com/MrMEEE/bumblebee/commit/a047be85247755cdbe0acce6 |
| 15:37 | < Vornicus> | Oh god |
| 15:42 | < TheWatcher> | .... ow |
| 15:42 | < AbuDhabi> | Hahaha. |
| 15:46 | | * TheWatcher stabs jQuery |
| 15:56 | < celticminstrel> | o.O |
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| 17:56 | | AbuDhabi is now known as Zon |
| 18:42 | < gnolam> | Yay! Looks like the experiments and the simulations are in agreement. \o/ |
| 18:58 | < Attilla> | w/r/t what? |
| 18:59 | < Zon> | Nuclear power. |
| 19:09 | < gnolam> | Radioactive contamination, rather. |
| 19:09 | < gnolam> | And subsequent dose rates to non-human biota. |
| 19:10 | < gnolam> | Anyway: the C.H.U.D. experiment and the simulations generated by my program give the same results. |
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| 21:20 | < gnolam> | Argh. The tension is killing me! |
| 21:21 | < Zon> | Are you being tortured by stretching? |
| 21:21 | < gnolam> | I think I've found a way to a) make the previous source definition solution a lot cleaner and B) pave the way for a new feature that was just requested. |
| 21:21 | < gnolam> | But I don't know if it works. |
| 21:22 | < gnolam> | I'll have to wait for the run to complete... and that'll take half an hour or so. |
| 21:22 | < Zon> | Don't you have a way to waste time? |
| 21:44 | | Kindamoody is now known as Kindamoody[zZz] |
| 22:07 | | Zon is now known as AnnoDomini |
| 22:08 | < gnolam> | ... as an aside, I think I might have just figured out how off the Neutronomicon's CPU time calculations are. |
| 22:09 | <@Tamber> | ...nice name. |
| 22:09 | < gnolam> | Instead of time elapsed*number of tasks, it appears to be time elapsed*(number of tasks)^2... |
| 22:15 | < Vornicus> | ...whups |
| 22:18 | < gnolam> | The question now is: do I A) take the time to test this properly and - if correct - integrate it into the time estimation display, or B) keep it the way it is now, which is "document it as 'If you use the multithreaded version, this time estimate will be way, way off'". |
| 22:30 | < Vornicus> | Neutronomicon... the big book of neutrons? |
| 22:35 | < celticminstrel> | The book of neutron names. |
| 22:35 | < celticminstrel> | At least, that's what it looks like to me. |
| 22:35 | < AnnoDomini> | The Book of Counted Neutrons. |
| 22:40 | < Phox> | Hmm. Is the last one a reference to a certain poorly veiled anti-socialist fantasy novel? |
| 22:40 | < AnnoDomini> | It is. |
| 22:43 | < Phox> | Ah. Well, it's nice that you knew it from my description. |
| 22:44 | < Phox> | I used to like that series, when I was a kid. re-read it a few months ago, and I could barely stand it |
| 22:44 | < AnnoDomini> | Pretty much same here. |
| 22:44 | < Phox> | It's like a 12-book rant about how people should have no social responsibility |
| 22:44 | < AnnoDomini> | I'm still an anti-communist, though. :P |
| 22:45 | < Phox> | Eh. I definitely see some benefits to it. |
| 22:45 | < Phox> | The whole "Let's try and institute a system that ensures a minimum of human rights, such as food" is a good idea to me. |
| 22:46 | < Phox> | In practice, it's never worked, of course |
| 22:46 | < AnnoDomini> | And it won't, because it assumes people won't behave like people. |
| 22:46 | < AnnoDomini> | This is why it is bad. |
| 22:46 | < Phox> | Yeah, exactly |
| 22:47 | < Phox> | Although, none of it's alternatives are particularly spectacular, either |
| 22:47 | < AnnoDomini> | Welcome to the real world, Neo. :P |
| 22:47 | <@Tamber> | hehe |
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| 23:23 | < gnolam> | Dammit. Didn't work. |
| 23:23 | < gnolam> | Or... it works, but the results are wrong. |
| 23:40 | < gnolam> | Aha! |
| --- Log closed Sat Aug 06 00:00:06 2011 |