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code logs -> 2011 -> Tue, 10 May 2011< code.20110509.log - code.20110511.log >
--- Log opened Tue May 10 00:00:41 2011
00:55 Vornicus-Latens is now known as Vornicus
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01:49 gnolam [lenin@9D46A2.F4E9D7.E4B4CF.2072AD] has quit [[NS] Quit: Z?]
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04:27
< Kazriko>
Heh.
04:30 cpux is now known as shade_of_cpux
04:40
< Reiver>
gnolam: Where on earth did you see that?
06:05 kwsn is now known as kw\t-2
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06:12 celticminstrel [celticminst@Nightstar-f8b608eb.cable.rogers.com] has quit [[NS] Quit: And lo! The computer falls into a deep sleep, to awake again some other day!]
06:46 UndeadAnno [annodomini@D553D1.9D4909.167358.F34FD4] has joined #code
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--- Log closed Tue May 10 08:34:05 2011
--- Log opened Tue May 10 08:34:13 2011
08:34 TheWatcher [chris@Nightstar-b4529b0c.zen.co.uk] has joined #code
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10:52 Vornicus is now known as Vornicus-Latens
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11:31
< Alek>
"For some reason, my computer recognizes the iPod as a webcam and asks if I want to open it in Word."
--- Log closed Tue May 10 11:59:10 2011
--- Log opened Tue May 10 12:02:09 2011
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17:15 Vornicus-Latens is now known as Vornicus
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19:00 * gnolam arghls at XFCE
19:00
< gnolam>
Goddamnit.
19:00
< gnolam>
What is it with Linux GUI people and poor copying? :P
19:00
< gnolam>
This time around, they've decided to become a shitty MacOS X.
19:00
< Tamber>
Someone told them they had to make it look like ${X}, or nobody'll use it.
19:01 * TheWatcher applies Enlightenment to gnolam
19:01
< Tamber>
Oh, good idea. :)
19:05
< gnolam>
Note to all UI designers: I do not _ever_ want just a handful of programs available at short notice and the rest only available after jumping through hoops.
19:05
< TheWatcher>
(I recommend the DAE theme for e16, btw. Especially because you can fuck with other people's heads with window control placement)
19:09
< gnolam>
... judging from the screenshot at Wikipedia, Enlightenment is even more horribly Mac-like.
19:09
< gnolam>
And ugly to boot.
19:09
< Tamber>
Which screenshot?
19:10
< TheWatcher>
I expect he's looking at the e17 shot. They have no decent e16 ones there, really
19:10
< Tamber>
(Because I'm using Enlightenment, and it's probably about as far from Mac-like as you can get.)
19:10
< Tamber>
Most likely.
19:11
< Tamber>
The default e17 theme (Black and White) is rather Mac-esque...
19:11
< McMartin>
What does "Mac-like" mean in this context?
19:11
< McMartin>
Because my Mac has no UI tweaks and I can run anything I have installed by typing its name in the textbox in the upper right.
19:12
< McMartin>
Likewise, as of Win7, I can do the same there but I have to hit the Windows key first.
19:14 * TheWatcher screenshots vaguely http://fleet.starforge.co.uk/vmshot.png
19:19
< Tamber>
How my E17 looks: http://gallery.furryhelix.co.uk/v/screenshots/e17_info.png.html The default theme: http://gallery.furryhelix.co.uk/v/screenshots/enlightenment_dr17.png.html And what I actually use, e16: http://gallery.furryhelix.co.uk/v/screenshots/screeeeeen.png.html ;)
19:19
< Tamber>
E17 is nice, I guess, but I want to hurt someone for the way the menus are set up. I can't wrap my head around them. Oh, and binary config files? BLECH!
19:20
< Alek>
yeees, default e17 is rather Classic Mac ish.
19:23 Reiver [orthianz@9C034E.E649EA.3194C7.8381A3] has quit [Client closed the connection]
19:23 Reiver [orthianz@9C034E.E649EA.3194C7.8381A3] has joined #code
19:23
< Tamber>
(I tend to follow the bleeding edge of EFL/Enlightenment, they have some nice shiny stuff in there. :)
19:24
< Tamber>
Unfortunately, the old theme that I was beginning to like, the gold one, doesn't build any more. Ho-hum.
19:24
< Alek>
so remake it.
19:25 Vashicus [Vash@Nightstar-a23ade0a.sndg02.sbcglobal.net] has joined #code
19:25 * Tamber adds that to the TODO list, then. :p
19:26 Vash [Vash@Nightstar-c40d5984.sndg02.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 121 seconds]
19:33 Thaqui [Thaqui@27B34E.D54D49.F53FA1.6A113C] has joined #code
19:38 * TheWatcher likes the old 23oz glass E16 theme, but it takes up too much space in the VM window (basically only works when I can use all my monitor space)
19:40
< McMartin>
This is basically the motivation for "only a few items immediately available on UI"
19:41
< McMartin>
I do not share gnolam's unending hostility for toolbars in addition to my menus.
19:42
< McMartin>
(If I am misunderstanding this objection, feel free to correct me, but it sounds like you're offended by the primacy of the Dock/Quick Launch bar/whatever you want to call it here)
19:42
<@Namegduf>
I'm only hostile about toolbars when using GNOME applications.
19:45 * Vornicus builds a guess the number game in Python with Vash. Now tries to think of another thing to build.
19:49
< Alek>
Snake.
19:54
< Vornicus>
No, realtime stuff is, for the moment, out of the question.
19:56
< McMartin>
Life Automaton or CCA.
19:56
< McMartin>
CCA is much better in realtime, though.
19:59 * Vashicus eyes Alek
19:59
< Vornicus>
CCA looks good, yes.
19:59
< Vashicus>
I have no real knowledge in coding.
20:00
< Vashicus>
... at all, really
20:00
< Vornicus>
Snake actually is a pretty good one; however it requires some graphics stuff and such.
20:01
< UndeadAnno>
Code snake. It can teach a lot.
20:02
< UndeadAnno>
SDL is good enough for a first attempt.
20:02
< Vornicus>
It can, but I want to get a couple other things talked about in basic terms first.
20:02
< UndeadAnno>
(You could also try curses for an ASCII version.)
20:13 Vash [Vash@Nightstar-a23ade0a.sndg02.sbcglobal.net] has joined #code
20:13 * Vash twitchtwitches
20:14 Vashicus [Vash@Nightstar-a23ade0a.sndg02.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Client closed the connection]
20:14
< Vornicus>
gnergleflergle.
20:14
< celticminstrel>
Ah, you were Vashicus again.
20:15
< Vash>
I have no idea why my freaking intarwebs keeps cutting ofrm time to time
20:15
< Vash>
from, even
20:25 Kindamoody|out is now known as Kindamoody
20:41
< Alek>
CCA?
20:42
< McMartin>
Cyclic Cellular Automaton.
20:42
< Alek>
Life, then. XD
20:42
< McMartin>
No
20:42
< McMartin>
Life is an entirely different Cellular automaton.
20:42
< Alek>
mmkay.
20:42
< McMartin>
CCA is the simplest CA I know of that produces actually interesting results, and it's more of an order-from-chaos system rather than an order-from-other-order system.
20:44
< McMartin>
You have N states; if you are in state i at time t, then if one of your neighbors is in state (i+1) mod N at time t, than you are in state (i+1) mod N at time t+1. Otherwise, you are in state i at time t+1.
20:44
< McMartin>
You start with a grid of random states.
20:44
< McMartin>
The system then homogenizes, and then "crystalizes".
20:44
< McMartin>
For lack of a better term.
20:45
< Alek>
mmm. that's... an interesting setup.
20:46 * Alek already knows how he'd code that. in theory.
20:46 * Alek should draft up a pseudocode, just to verify he gets it.
20:46
< McMartin>
Oh, important side note:
20:47
< McMartin>
"neighbors" here is North/South/East/West only, and wraps around the edges.
20:47
< Alek>
ooh. wrap, now that makes things harder.
20:47
< McMartin>
Only a little, though. Modulus is your tiny god.
20:47
< Alek>
true.
20:47
< Vornicus>
We're doing 1d because it's easy to print.
20:47 * McMartin nods
20:48
< McMartin>
I suspect that one won't crystallize, though.
20:48
< Vornicus>
4 states doesn't "crystallize"
20:48
< McMartin>
Hm. In a 2D graph of any real size, 4 states will start out with dozens of crystals premade in a random grid.
20:49 * McMartin tended towards a dozen states in a 100x100 grid or so, IHRC.
20:49
< Vornicus>
or rather
20:49
< McMartin>
I'd have to dig out my cheap implementation of it again.
20:49
< Vornicus>
4 states tends to stabilize to just one or two states in vertical stripes, in 1d.
20:49
< McMartin>
Yeah, that's "homogenize", with some breaks.
20:49
< Vornicus>
5 states is more stripey.
20:50
< McMartin>
... 3 states should make a chase train, which is, I think, the 1D equivalent of the crystals.
20:51
< McMartin>
(Since the crystalline end state maxes out at 'every state is changing every timestep')
20:52
< Vash>
hm, ate and now I got sleepy as fuck. I was tired all of this week to start with, and I think the week before. But never got to catch up on full sleep or something
20:53
< Vash>
so, even though we are doing small functions, I am confused and sleepy, which sucks.
21:05
< Vornicus>
I'll see what 3 makes as soon as I finish writing it. Which should be momentarily.
21:07 Vashicus [Vash@Nightstar-a23ade0a.sndg02.sbcglobal.net] has joined #code
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21:08
< Vornicus>
gnarglefarg.
21:12
< ToxicFrog>
?
21:17
< Vornicus>
Trying to teach Vash python over in voice chat and her connection keeps falling over
21:19
< Vashicus>
... man, I literally know nothing. I had to ask about the somplest thing ever.
21:19
< Vashicus>
the a, k and a+k thing
21:25 * TheWatcher eyes his virtualbox
21:26
< TheWatcher>
why the devil is it locking up loading the guest additions kernel modules, damnit
21:27
< TheWatcher>
kernel isn't paniced, as inserting a CAD works, blegh
21:35
< TheWatcher>
... rebooting windows fixed it. Of course.
21:35
< TheWatcher>
>.<
21:36
< TheWatcher>
(I guess something in the guest kernel modules must have been trying to lock or contact somethign that wasn't responding in the host)
21:46
< ToxicFrog>
\o/ Device detected: IMAPCAR2 Test Board
21:46
< ToxicFrog>
"a, k, and a+k thing"?
21:47 Syloqs-AFH [Syloq@NetworkAdministrator.Nightstar.Net] has quit [[NS] Quit: ]
21:48
< Vornicus>
a = 0; for k in [1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8]: a = a + k; print a
21:51
< ToxicFrog>
Aah.
21:56
< Vornicus>
(we're fiddling with for loops in general at this point and discussing some of the fine points. There's a lot of fine points, it turns out. But we're clearly getting understanding happening, so that's all right)
22:01
< Vashicus>
heh
22:01
< Vashicus>
it's hilarious at some points.
22:01
< Vashicus>
he was trying to explain: [k for k in range(10)]
22:02
< Vashicus>
... specifically, the other example that was trying to be explained was: [52 for k in range(10)]
22:02
< Vashicus>
I kept saying that k was being replaced as 52 and he thought I was getting it
22:02
< Vashicus>
...until I explained that what I meant was that k, 0-9 was technicalyl a space
22:03
< Vashicus>
so each space was going to be occupied with a 52
22:05
< Vashicus>
er, he thought I was getting it wrong.
22:05 UndeadAnno [annodomini@D553D1.9D4909.167358.F34FD4] has quit [[NS] Quit: Attempts must be made even when there can be no hope. And betimes some wonder is wrought to redeem us.]
22:22
< Vornicus>
(Also, Vash is a good student. She appears to be trying things out in her head before she dumps it onto the computer.)
22:35
< gnolam>
\o/
22:35
< gnolam>
But dumping it onto the computer is also good.
22:35
< gnolam>
A little experimentation goes a long way.
22:36
< Alek>
true dat.
22:36
< gnolam>
I've seen way too many programming questions that could be answered by "try it and find out" in my time.
22:36
< Alek>
many's the awesome thing has been discovered because somewhere, someone tried something without thinking about it. XD
22:38
< gnolam>
Now, sometimes you have to ask anyway - but there's a difference between "is this actually allowed by the standard?" and "would this compile?".
22:38
< Vashicus>
um
22:38 celticminstrel is now known as celmin|away
22:39
< Vashicus>
no, he means that if he give me something like: [(k-1) % 4 for k in range (10)]
22:39
< Vashicus>
I try to do it by hand to get the answers instead of just pressing enter and telling him what I got
22:40
< Vashicus>
AFTER I get something, I press enter and compare
22:40
< gnolam>
That is indeed good. :)
22:40
< Vashicus>
to see if I understand how it goes
22:40
< Vornicus>
SCIENCE
22:40
< Vashicus>
heh
22:40
< Vashicus>
SCIENCE!
22:40
< gnolam>
It's basically what programming is about, in fact. :)
22:43 * gnolam boggles at a given unit.
22:44
< gnolam>
1/(Bq s MeV)
22:44
< Vornicus>
inverse becquerel second mega electron volts.
22:44
< Vornicus>
You win.
22:44
< gnolam>
Buh... buh... 1 Bq = 1 s^-1?
22:44
< McMartin>
Yeah, you actually lose. =P
22:45
< McMartin>
Bq s = 1.
22:46
< McMartin>
Well, ok, Bq s = "nucleus count"
22:55 kwsn [kwsn@BAD19E.B5A83A.180240.E5184B] has joined #code
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22:56 * gnolam hands ICRP the coveted "most confusing units" award.
22:57 Syloqs_AFH is now known as Syloqs-AFH
22:58
< gnolam>
Or possibly "most confusing dataset", as it's not just that column that's confusing about their beta data.
22:59 Kindamoody is now known as Kindamoody[zZz]
23:03 Syloqs-AFH [Syloq@NetworkAdministrator.Nightstar.Net] has quit [Ping timeout: 121 seconds]
23:09
< McMartin>
"Google announces Android Ice Cream Sandwich will merge phone and tablet OSes"
23:09
< McMartin>
... this is why you don't make your code names public, guys.
23:10
< Vornicus>
what
23:11
< Vashicus>
huh
23:11
< Vashicus>
cca
23:11
< Vashicus>
weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee triangles
23:11 Syloqs_AFH [Syloq@NetworkAdministrator.Nightstar.Net] has joined #code
23:11
< Vornicus>
(Victory has been achieved. Also, I htink, understanding)
23:12 Syloqs_AFH is now known as Syloqs-AFH
23:12
< McMartin>
"Ice Cream Sandwich" is the internal code name for Android 3.1
23:12
< McMartin>
They're using desserts in advancing alphabetical order.
23:12
< McMartin>
My phone is running Frozen Yogurt, or, since they are Stanford guys who are all with the Newspeak, "FroYo".
23:13
< Vashicus>
...
23:13
< Vashicus>
it's hard to see the path it makes with the numbers
23:13
< Vashicus>
but I can see a couple at least.
23:13
< McMartin>
Decoupling those is kind of the point.
23:13
< McMartin>
Oh. The CCA.
23:13
< McMartin>
Right~
23:13
< Vornicus>
If you want we can get out pygame and get that going, but I'll have to actually, you know. Read it.
23:14
< McMartin>
If you're getting triangles, that's a Proper 1D Crystal.
23:15
< Vashicus>
... it's funny what one extra indentation can do
23:15
< Vashicus>
(I had one around, so I wasn't getting all the lines. I was just getting like 1, 2 or 3 of them)
23:16 * TheWatcher nocomments from over here
23:16 * Tamber grumbles about whitespace having syntactic meaning.
23:16
< Vornicus>
(her return was inside the loop that figures out how the state changes, instead of outside it. So the first cell was the only one changing.)
23:17
< McMartin>
Your grumbling would have more force if pretending that languages that didn't secretly did wasn't the best practice in every conceivable coding style
23:17
< Tamber>
-chuckles-
23:17
< Tamber>
Oh, pretending it does is fine; but I don't like having things like that forced upon me. ;)
23:18
< TheWatcher>
Whitespace with syntactic meaning I'm not so opposed to, except when coupled with lack of obvious block markers
23:21
< McMartin>
One nice thing about emacs is that replacing { and } with : and {BS} produces identical effects.
23:26 kwsn is now known as kws-not-here
23:27
< Vashicus>
ok, the problem was:
23:27
< Vashicus>
23:27
< Vashicus>
 for k in range(len(new_state)):
23:27
< Vashicus>
 seeking = (old_state[k] + 1) % MODULUS
23:27
< Vashicus>
 before = old_state[(k-1) % WIDTH]
23:27
< Vashicus>
 after = old_state [(k+1) % WIDTH]
23:27
< Vashicus>
 if seeking == before or seeking == after: new_state[k] = seeking
23:27
< Vashicus>
 return new_state
23:27
< Vashicus>
er
23:27
< Vashicus>
that is fixed
23:28
< Vashicus>
the problem was that: return new_state had another indentation, which made it part of: for k in range(len(new_state))
23:28
< Vashicus>
instead of: def cca(old_state):
23:31
< TheWatcher>
McM: yeah, but that's not really addressing the issue. I freely admit that this is an issue with how my mind works, but one of the first things I look for when reading code is braces or other obvious open/close markers making code structure explicit. I find the need to work it out from indentation alone to be frustrating and counterintuitive.
23:45 shade_of_cpux is now known as cpux
23:53 * Vornicus returns
23:59 Syloqs-AFH [Syloq@NetworkAdministrator.Nightstar.Net] has quit [Ping timeout: 121 seconds]
23:59 Syloqs_AFH [Syloq@NetworkAdministrator.Nightstar.Net] has joined #code
--- Log closed Wed May 11 00:00:07 2011
code logs -> 2011 -> Tue, 10 May 2011< code.20110509.log - code.20110511.log >
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