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code logs -> 2010 -> Thu, 14 Oct 2010< code.20101013.log - code.20101015.log >
--- Log opened Thu Oct 14 00:00:19 2010
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00:19
<@ToxicFrog>
Gneeeeeeer
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00:19
<@ToxicFrog>
I don't think I can put off the serialization stuff any longer
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08:41
<@Kazriko>
i think that's not the problem, because the psycopg2 library isn't picking up the changes either...
08:42
<@Kazriko>
so it seems like it's not writing them out at all.
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15:43 * gnolam has come to the conclusion that SQL really stands for "Spiteful Query Language".
15:46
< Anno[Laptop]>
Only now?
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17:25
<@jerith>
Yay for VM bugs! :-(
17:26
<@jerith>
The Dalvik people forgot to implement arrays of primitive types in annotations.
17:28
< Tarinaky>
So. I find that most my python files seem to start and end with the same thing. Any suggestions on how to automagically set the head and tail of a text document?
17:28
<@jerith>
So now I get to use Strings and parseInt(). :-/
17:28
<@jerith>
Tarinaky: What's the boilerplate?
17:29
<@jerith>
You can probably make your editor give you a template, but I seldom bother.
17:29
< Tarinaky>
Mostly just imports and then a couple of lines to run a test() function if the file is loaded as main.
17:30
< Tarinaky>
Or whatever the term was... if __name__=='__main__': test() anyway.
17:30
<@jerith>
Tarinaky: Why not use unit tests?
17:30
< Tarinaky>
I don't know what those are.
17:31
<@jerith>
http://docs.python.org/library/unittest.html
17:35
< Tarinaky>
I think Unit Test is more gun than I need to the point of blowing my own leg off.
17:35
< Tarinaky>
My 'test' usually involves drawing stuff to the screen and me looking to see if it looks right.
17:35
<@jerith>
Ah.
17:36
<@jerith>
That's the kind of thing I use the commandline or ipython for.
17:37
<@jerith>
python -c "import foo; foo.something('magic', 9001)"
17:38
<@jerith>
Or, in ipython: reload(foo); foo.something('magic', 9001)
17:51
< Rhamphoryncus>
There's ways to do automated testing of graphics, but it's harder
17:53
< Rhamphoryncus>
But if you can break it down into component parts, so that it's not overly sensitive to changes, it's generally worth it
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22:49
< simon_>
hrm
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22:49
< simon_>
I'm trying to prove that two expressions in Computation Tree Logic (CTL) are equivalent.
22:50
< simon_>
EF p = p v EX EF p
22:51
<@ToxicFrog>
Not familiar with EF or EX
22:51
< simon_>
my approach is through expanding the expressions into their semantic definitions.
22:51
< simon_>
ok
22:51
<@ToxicFrog>
But expansion sounds like a plausible approach
22:52
< simon_>
(M,s |= EF p) means "there exists a path from the state s in which p will be true."
22:53
< simon_>
so E kind of works like the existential quantifier, but explicitly on paths from s.
22:53
< simon_>
(M,s |= EX p) means "there exists a path from the state s in which p is true in the next state."
22:55
< RichardBarrell>
Efentually an EXpediently, p will be true :D
22:55
< RichardBarrell>
*and
22:55
< simon_>
so intuitively p v (EX EF p) means "either p is true in s, or there is a path, beginning in some next state from s, in which p will be true" ... which is just an expansion of EF p.
22:56
< RichardBarrell>
By v I assume you mean ||, right? :P
22:56
< simon_>
like p v (EX p) v (EX EX EF p) is yet another expansion
22:56
< simon_>
RichardBarrell, yup.
22:56
< simon_>
anyways
22:57
<@ToxicFrog>
RichardBarrell: ? ? are AND and OR respectively.
22:57
< RichardBarrell>
Otherwise I'm going to have to throw a Unicode ? or ? at you.
22:57
< RichardBarrell>
Oh wait, I just gave the set theory UNION and INTERSECTION.
22:58
<@ToxicFrog>
Yeah, and/or are 2227 and 2228.
22:58
< simon_>
thanks
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22:58
< RichardBarrell>
simon_: I ask because it's going to get really unclear once you attempt to express a conjunction using only ASCII :P
23:00
< simon_>
I've got these semantics encoded as: (M,s |= EF p) <=> ?(path ? in paths from s): ?i>=0: M,?[i] |= p)
23:00
< simon_>
(I can't do subscripts here, so a bit of text seems better, hehe)
23:00
< RichardBarrell>
Hahahah. You show simon_ one character, he remembers the whole of Unicode. ;)
23:01
< simon_>
I hardly remember any Unicode. :) I go to Wikipedia and copy-paste symbols.
23:02
< simon_>
(also, I don't think my GNOME supports any shortcuts for printing unicode symbols based on their number. maybe.)
23:02
< simon_>
so I got a definition similar to that one for EX EF p, and they look somewhat similar but not quite.
23:03
< simon_>
so when I've got these, I'm sort of stuck. I had one assignment previous where expanding these definitions would give the exact same LHS and RHS, so it was trivial.
23:03
<@ToxicFrog>
ctrl-shift-U might work in gnome.
23:03
< simon_>
now I'm not sure if I should add induction.
23:03
< simon_>
cool!!!
23:03
<@ToxicFrog>
I can't test that anymore because SCIM took that over when I installed it.
23:03
< simon_>
thanks.
23:03
< simon_>
hehe.
23:03
< simon_>
it does work.
23:04 * simon_ starts a bad habit of remembering unicode symbol numbers now.
23:04
< RichardBarrell>
GNOME let you type in unicode escape codes by banging control-shift-u.
23:05
< RichardBarrell>
Fail, replying to stale messages.
23:05
< simon_>
yeah, that's awesome.
23:05
< simon_>
(the unicode fact, not replying late :P)
23:05
< RichardBarrell>
Emacs has M-x ucs-insert, which totally has tab completion for unicode character names, and hence is even better ;)
23:06
< simon_>
my vim has ctrl+shift+u because my terminal has. ;P
23:07
< simon_>
I suck at being an editor zealot. a mathematician today asked me which editor he should start using and that he had looked into vim. I told him to try emacs, too.
23:07
< RichardBarrell>
I just discovered that M-x shell mode is actually really nice if you turn off colours in most of the programs that you use. ^_^
23:07
< simon_>
for having shells in split windows?
23:08
< simon_>
if viper-mode was better, I'd use it.
23:09
< RichardBarrell>
Having real Emacs for line-editing rather than libreadline's inevitably incomplete implementation.
23:09
< simon_>
ah. yes.
23:09
< RichardBarrell>
Plus it has a bunch of nifty things, such as a keyboard shortcut that discards the output from the previously-run command.
23:11
< RichardBarrell>
The downside is that you end up with a TERM=dumb, but the upside is that it feels more natural to have it inside the editor because the shell cedes more control to Emacs that way
23:12
< RichardBarrell>
I still use vi regularly. I think I'd still recommend most Unix newbies to learn vi first. That way, you're never stranded on a foreign server; /usr/bin/vi is *always* there. (If it isn't, find the sysadmin and force them to commit hara-kiri).
23:12
< McMartin>
Yeah
23:13
< McMartin>
I wouldn't play nethack in emacs.
23:13
< RichardBarrell>
I was finding myself using vi inside M-x ansi-term, at one point. ?_?
23:14
< simon_>
hahaha
23:14
< simon_>
I haven't heard that one before.
23:17
< simon_>
*shrug*
23:18
< simon_>
the satisfying with proofs in this logic course has been that all deductions take baby steps because the non-derived axioms are so elementary.
23:19
< simon_>
and then it's a little confusing, but very cool when the same logic system is applied to proofs about the system itself.
23:23
< simon_>
I have to somehow show that ?(path ? in paths from s): ?i>=0: M,?[i] |= p) <=> (M,s |= p) ? (?(path ? in paths from s): M,?[1+i] |= p)
23:23
< simon_>
it seems very clear.
23:23
< simon_>
but I'm not writing any deductions. :P
23:25
< simon_>
I got one idea though, brb.
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23:46
< simon_>
I've got two identical measuring cups, made by the same company, in which 100 grams of flour is apparently the same as 150 grams of flour.
23:46
< simon_>
(they're identical in size, clearly not in labelling)
23:47
<@TheWatcher>
Packing difference, I'd suspect
23:49
< simon_>
but that must mean that the measuring cup company decided to change their standards quite considerably about how compact flour is packed.
23:50
< celticminstrel>
...why would you use measuring cups for measuring flower in grammes? Shouldn't you use a scale for that?
23:51
< simon_>
flour?
23:51
< simon_>
I haven't got a scale.
23:51
< simon_>
also, I might be in space.
23:51
< simon_>
;P
23:52
< celticminstrel>
Yeah, I meant flour.
23:54
< simon_>
ah, found a weight. this cake won't be a lie!
--- Log closed Fri Oct 15 00:00:21 2010
code logs -> 2010 -> Thu, 14 Oct 2010< code.20101013.log - code.20101015.log >
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