#code.20101011.log

code logs -> 2010 -> Mon, 11 Oct 2010

< code.20101010.log - code.20101012.log >

--- Log opened Mon Oct 11 00:00:16 2010
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03:42	<@Vornicus>	Kaura!
03:43	< kaura>	Vorn!
03:43	< kaura>	I haven't touched the stuff you've given me yet, alas.
03:45	<@Vornicus>	That's all right.
03:46	<@Vornicus>	I expected to need to explain it anyway, because i use a term -- and a kind of thing -- that you don't know about yet.
03:49		* ToxicFrog tries to figure out how to get his automatic RMI stuff working without being shit to declare
03:50	<@Vornicus>	That thing is called a stack. A stack is basically a list, except you only ever talk about one end of it; it's used mostly when you usually deal with stuff as you encounter it.
03:51	< kaura>	Vorn: I'm also not quite cognizant about how to toggle modes.
03:52	<@Vornicus>	That's not too hard either.
03:52	<@Vornicus>	You just choose a number for each mode (usually you give that number a constant name) and then switch between them by assigning that number to "mode"
03:54	< celticminstrel>	This is why I like enum types.
03:54	<@Vornicus>	Having a built-in enum type is nice but sadly Python doesn't have a nice one of those.
03:54	< celticminstrel>	Though, I seem to recall seeing an enum-like type in the Python library somewhere...
03:55	<@Derakon>	Vorn: no, but it's easy enough to imitate.
03:55	<@Derakon>	(TYPE_A, TYPE_B, TYPE_C) = range(3)
03:55	<@Vornicus>	Oh that's /cool/
03:57	<@Derakon>	I thought so when I first saw it.
03:59	<@Vornicus>	So what we're going to write today is something called "evaluate". What it will do is take in a list of symbols (that came from lex) and try to evaluate it.
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04:05	<@Vornicus>	Actually, thinking about this, we're going to want to send our evaluation through quite a few different steps here, and they're all going to need access to our stacks; we'll make this a class.
04:07	< kaura>	Right.
04:08	<@Vornicus>	So what we'll do is we'll make a class called, idunno, Expression
04:09	< kaura>	class Expression(object), right?
04:09	<@Vornicus>	Yep. DOn't forget your colon.
04:09	< kaura>	Right.
04:10	<@Vornicus>	And then __init__ will take in a string, and then assign that to self.input; then lex is also in Expression, takes only self, looks at self.input, and creates self.symbols instead of returning them.
04:13	<@Vornicus>	When you've made those modifications, tell me.
04:13	<@Vornicus>	(and show me)
04:20	< kaura>	Hrn. Pastebin's choking.
04:25	< kaura>	Ah, finally stopped choking. http://pastebin.starforge.co.uk/423
04:27	<@Vornicus>	Not quite on the modifications to lex; try "self.symbols = symbols" instead for the last line. Don't have to return anything.
04:27	< kaura>	Ah.
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04:29	< kaura>	Right, mod made.
04:30	<@Vornicus>	Also we no longer need the non-class version of lex.
04:30	< kaura>	Right. There's no instance in which you wouldn't call the class version to run it. Deleting.
04:30	<@Vornicus>	Also also, remember how __init__ actually assigns stuff; look at how we handled filename in our deck simulator.
04:33	< kaura>	Ah, so it ought to be "def __init__(self): self = self.input"
04:38	<@Vornicus>	no.
04:38	<@Vornicus>	Where does init get input?
04:43	<@Vornicus>	(I pointed you at filename -- or is it deck_file? I forget -- because that one did exactly what we're going to do here.)
05:05		* Vornicus thinks he's lost kaura to Bejewelled. Does not lay blame.
05:05	< kaura>	Vorn: Actually, you temporarily lost me to the inevitable results of too much spicy food.
05:06	< kaura>	Right, so it should actually be (self, input)?
05:06	< kaura>	wait, not input. foo. Input's already set aside.
05:13	<@Vornicus>	I wouldn't call it "foo"
05:15	<@Vornicus>	("expr_string" would work though)
05:24	<@Vornicus>	And then the assignment changes too, of course.
05:24	<@Vornicus>	But anyway, what we're going to want to do is call lex within __init__; what we're actually doing is storing not just data and general procedures in a class, but a whole program that depends on a lot of different things.
05:29	<@Vornicus>	So theeeen, we're going to write something called evaluate. But before we get there, __init__ should set self.mode to whatever number you chose to represent "I expect a number next!"
05:33	< kaura>	The mode assignments are outside of __init__ but within the class, right?
05:36	<@Vornicus>	Well, the setup of what mode is what -- naming your numbers -- yeah. But we set the starting mode in... well, no, init no. evaluate is where it should go.
05:38		* McMartin finds himself building non-software things!
05:41	<@Vornicus>	Anyway, in evaluate we need to loop over self.symbols; then we're going to process each symbol.
05:42	<@Vornicus>	also, the mode setting should be object-wide too.
05:42	< kaura>	Sorry, object-wide?
05:43	<@Vornicus>	it's self's.
05:44	< kaura>	Ah.
05:44	<@Vornicus>	(symbols and expr-string or whatever you called it are also object-wide)
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05:46	< celticminstrel>	Non-software things?
05:46	<@Vornicus>	Furniture, specifically.
05:50		* kaura ponders. Lesse if I've got this right...
05:51	< kaura>	http://pastebin.starforge.co.uk/424
05:52	<@Vornicus>	Indeed.
05:52	<@Vornicus>	Now, before we get too far -- we need two stacks.
05:52	<@Vornicus>	One's for numbers, the other's for operators.
05:53	< celticminstrel>	This sounds familiar! ^_^
05:53	<@Vornicus>	These will also be stored in the object; they're just lists, and they start empty.
05:56	< kaura>	so numstack = [] and opstack = []
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05:58	<@Vornicus>	yeah, but htey're on self as well.
05:59	< kaura>	Oh, right. So self.numstack etc
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06:00	<@Vornicus>	Right.
06:01	<@Vornicus>	also, I'd call "number" and "operator" just NUM and OP.
06:01	<@Vornicus>	Anyway.
06:03	<@Vornicus>	When, on my thing there, I say "push", use "append". when I say "pop", use "pop". Don't give pop a number, either. When pushing numbers, make sure to turn them to actual numbers using int; when pushing unary operators, convert them to the u form via U_DICT.
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06:06	<@Vornicus>	You're going to want to turn "pop off an operator and execute it" into a function of its own; also, you need a dictionary that tells you which operators should get popped off when adding in a new one.
06:08	<@Vornicus>	Which actually we should be building before anything else here.
06:09	< celticminstrel>	...why on earth does SDL_image only support reading image data?
06:11	<@Vornicus>	So we also need a dictionary that, given a binary operator, gives us a list of operators that it works after. for +, for instance, you need to have +, -, *, /, ^, d, u-, u+, and ud
06:11	<@Vornicus>	(also the same for -)
06:13	<@Vornicus>	and then * has all that except for + and -.
06:14	< celticminstrel>	And the same for / ?
06:14	<@Vornicus>	Indeed.
06:14	<@Vornicus>	d is kind of a bone of contention; I say that it shold happen at about the same time as *
06:14	<@Vornicus>	(and so should have the same list)
06:14	< celticminstrel>	And then I guess ^ would just have ^, d, u-. u+, or something.
06:14	< celticminstrel>	^ ,
06:14	<@Vornicus>	Ah ah! Not quite.
06:15	< celticminstrel>	Of course, if ^ is exponentiation, it throws everything off a bit by being right associative.
06:15	< celticminstrel>	As opposed to - and / which are left associative.
06:15	<@Vornicus>	And this dictionary will account for that.
06:15	< celticminstrel>	Oh, good...?
06:15	<@Vornicus>	You see... ^'s list... has nothing in it.
06:16	< celticminstrel>	Oh, not even itself.
06:18	<@Vornicus>	Because it happens before anything else - even negation.
06:20	<@Vornicus>	ud and u- and u+ also have nothing in them, because if they show up then none ofthe binary operators will even work properly yet (because we're still waiting on a number) and because we want to take them last to first.
06:22	<@Vornicus>	And I've just dumped a shitload onto kaura.
06:27	< kaura>	Yeah... gimme a sec. Need some ice water before I tackle this...
06:30	<@Vornicus>	This is a lot of code that needs to be written, and most of it won't work until it's all in.
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06:56	< kaura>	Saving your instructions and working on them tomorrow. Need to make sure I wake up in time for my job interview tomorrow, and my brain's still a bit fried right now.
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11:15	< Tarinaky>	Morning.
11:21		kaura is now known as Kaura\|zzz
11:49		* Tarinaky blinks. That's... different.
11:49	<@TheWatcher>	?
11:49		* TheWatcher hands Tarinaky a butterfly
11:51	< Tarinaky>	http://tarinaky.pastebin.com/XB2d5VH7 << What is different between those two blocks?
11:51	< Tarinaky>	The bottom one is raising an error ("Expected::") on the word 'except'.
11:52	<@TheWatcher>	the comma between ImportError, err: and ImportError err: ?
11:53	< Tarinaky>	Ahah.
11:53	< Tarinaky>	Thanks!
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13:59	< gnolam>	And Kubuntu Netbook fails at its UI.
14:00		* gnolam gives up on a /good/ Linux experience and falls back to Xubuntu.
14:06	< gnolam>	It still fails at basic bloody features (like letting me set usable goddamn date and time formats), but it seems to be the best of the bunch. :P
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15:22	< Tarinaky>	Well... I've successfully drawn 2/3 of a Hexagon >.<
15:23	< Tarinaky>	Unfortunately it appears to be missing two sides.
15:23	< Tarinaky>	Which I don't quite understand.
15:23	< Tarinaky>	http://tarinaky.pastebin.com/ZdgEQu26
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15:45	< gnolam>	Vertex ordering?
15:46	< Tarinaky>	They're ordered clockwise.
15:59	< Tarinaky>	Iiiinteresting.
16:00	< Tarinaky>	The debugger says that, after being initialised... Hexagon = list: [(0, 1.0), (1, 0), (0, -1.0), (-1, -1.0), (-1, 0), (-1, 1.0)]
16:00	< Tarinaky>	Anyone know why Python is being dumb?
16:02	< Tarinaky>	When I change 1/2 and 3/2 to 0.5 and 1.5 respectively it works.
16:02	< Tarinaky>	Stupid dynamic typing :/
16:03	< Tarinaky>	I find 1/2 easier to read than 0.5 - anyone have a 'fix'?
16:05	< celticminstrel>	Write 1.0/2
16:05	< celticminstrel>	Or I think 1/2.0 should work too.
16:09	< Tarinaky>	Ahah.
16:09	<@TheWatcher>	Use constants?~ (Python does do them, right?)
16:10		* TheWatcher really should bring himself to learn more of that language
16:10	<@TheWatcher>	(bug uggh, the whitespace sensitivity ;.;)
16:10	< Tarinaky>	Constants seem a little clunky when I'm used to specifying real numbers using fractions rather than decimals. :/
16:10	<@TheWatcher>	*but
16:20	< PinkFreud>	TheWatcher: I've been trying to convince myself to learn more about python as well
16:20	<@TheWatcher>	The lack of { } royally fucks with my headbones.
16:25	< PinkFreud>	indeed. there are those who say that whitespace delimiting 'just makes sense', but I'm not one of them
16:26	< celticminstrel>	I kind of like the "begin ... end" type of delimiting too.
16:27	< celticminstrel>	Like in AppleScript or VB.
16:27	< celticminstrel>	Or shell scripts for that matter.
16:42	< celticminstrel>	If I try to lock a surface that doesn't need to be locked, will SDL_LockSurface return failure or just no-op?
16:46	< celticminstrel>	Yay for source code. Looks like it's just a no-op.
16:48		* Tarinaky tries to remember how to do abstract classes in python./
16:48	< celticminstrel>	Um. Does Python do abstract classes?
16:49	< celticminstrel>	I suppose you could do it by defining all your unimplemented functions to raise an exception.
16:49	< Tarinaky>	Well. I mean having unimplemented functions.
16:50	< Tarinaky>	So I can have a skeletal engine class that I can inherit rather than copy+pasting+modifying.
16:51	< Tarinaky>	(Since there's a lot of stuff to initialise for pygame)
16:53	< Tarinaky>	I can't seem to spot it in the documentation.
16:54	< Tarinaky>	Do I just add do-nothing functions and reimplement them in derived classes?
16:54	< celticminstrel>	This might interest you... though I dunno what version you're using. http://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-3119/
16:56	< Tarinaky>	That doesn't seem to have the answer I'm looking for right now :/
16:57	< celticminstrel>	"a decorator that can be used to define abstract methods" is not what you're looking for?
16:57	< Tarinaky>	Ahah! I found what I was looking for.
16:58	< Tarinaky>	"For C++ programmers: all methods in Python are effectively virtual."
16:58	< celticminstrel>	Yeah, that's right. That's the case in Java too.
17:06	< celticminstrel>	"Unlike Java's abstract methods or C++'s pure abstract methods, abstract methods as defined here may have an implementation."
17:06	< celticminstrel>	Actually, I'm pretty sure C++ pure virtual methods can have an implementation.
17:08	<@Vornicus-Latens>	from __future__ import division
17:08	<@Vornicus-Latens>	Makes / give a float when it looks like it should.
17:08	< celticminstrel>	:O
17:09	<@Vornicus-Latens>	When you do that, if you do need explicitly integer division, use //
17:09	< celticminstrel>	So, Python 3 doesn't floor regular division?
17:09	<@Vornicus-Latens>	nope.
17:09	< celticminstrel>	Nice.
17:12	< celticminstrel>	And yes, C++ pure virtual methods can have an implementation.
17:13	< celticminstrel>	Which can be accessed explicitly from within a base class.
17:15	<@Vornicus-Latens>	Tarinaky: to create an abstract class, you can just have the program call functions that don't appear to exist yet. :)
17:35	< Tarinaky>	Sorry, was afk. Cool.
17:45	< Tarinaky>	Incidentally... how -do- you declare a constant in Python?
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18:04	< celticminstrel>	x=9?
18:05	< celticminstrel>	As far as I know, Python has no way of enforcing constness.
18:06	< Tarinaky>	TypeError: can't multiply sequence by non-int of type 'float'
18:06	< Tarinaky>	... >.<
18:06	< Tarinaky>	This is when trying to use the division from __future__.
18:06	< celticminstrel>	Cast it to int first.
18:06	< Tarinaky>	Oh wait, no.
18:07	< Tarinaky>	It happens in both cases :/
18:07	< celticminstrel>	Hehe.
18:07	<@Vornicus-Latens>	There is in fact no enforced const thing in Python.
18:08	< Tarinaky>	Vertices = [(aSize/2,bSize/2) for (a,b) in Vertices] I don't understand what's wrong with this expression :/
18:08	<@Vornicus-Latens>	What's Vertices look like, what's Size?
18:08	< Tarinaky>	Vertices is a list of tuples (It's a list of x-y coordinate pairs)
18:08	< Tarinaky>	Oh! I see what I've done wrong.
18:09		* Tarinaky forgot that Size was, itself, a tuple.
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18:21		* Tarinaky grumbles.
18:23	< Tarinaky>	I can't get it to stop drawing outside the bounds I'm setting :/
18:33	< Tarinaky>	Ahah!
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19:17	< Tarinaky>	http://tarinaky.pastebin.com/7jrEehJJ >.< What am I doing wrong?
19:19	< Tarinaky>	Ah. Nm.
19:20	< Tarinaky>	Figured it out.
19:20	< jeroid>	Range woes?
19:20	< Tarinaky>	Apparently you can't specify a tuple like that.
19:21		* Tarinaky changed it to a list and everything was (mostly) fine.
19:22	< Tarinaky>	It's not quite giving me the output I expected though.
19:23		* Tarinaky could really do with Vorn to check he has the right Matrix (and that I multiplied it correctly >.<)
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20:22	< Tarinaky>	Yeah. I'm not convinced the Matrix is right. :/
20:25	< Tarinaky>	Anyone know when I might be able to expect Vorn to be around?
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20:41	<@Vornicus>	?
20:41	< Tarinaky>	Vornicus: Hi!
20:42	< Tarinaky>	I'm currently trying out that matrix you gave me for converting internal coordinates to display coordinates...
20:42	< Tarinaky>	It doesn't seem to be providing the expected output.
20:42	<@Vornicus>	okay. Have you plotted a dot for integer coordinates, and gotten an isometric-looking grid of dots? If not, then you're doing it wrong.
20:42	<@Vornicus>	and, ack, mom's here, time to go.
20:43	< Tarinaky>	I've been blitting hexagons instead.
20:43	<@Vornicus>	Ah. Try dots, it'll help more when fiddling matrices.
20:44	< Tarinaky>	Well... it sortof looks lopsided.
20:44	< Tarinaky>	I'd show you a screenshot but you're leaving.
20:45	< Tarinaky>	http://i52.tinypic.com/2i0evpf.png is what I get.
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22:24	<@jerith>	Tarinaky: What does the current code look like?
22:25	< Tarinaky>	http://github.com/Tarinaky/coulomb/blob/demos/py/hex3.py
22:25	< Tarinaky>	on_draw is the important method.
22:37	<@Vornicus>	Tarinaky: change the order of the x and y in the second line.
22:37	<@Vornicus>	22 that is
22:37	< Tarinaky>	Vornicus: That's not what I've got on my notes on matrix multiplication >.<
22:38		* Tarinaky screenshots and uploads.
22:39	< Tarinaky>	http://i53.tinypic.com/25s4p5j.png
22:40	<@Vornicus>	They have to be in the same order on both lines.
22:41	< Tarinaky>	Vornicus: That's the screenshot with:
22:41	< Tarinaky>	Position = (xmath.sqrt(3)/2+y3/2,
22:41	< Tarinaky>	xmath.sqrt(3)/2-y3/2)
22:42	<@Vornicus>	That doesn't look right at all.
22:42	< Tarinaky>	That's what you just told me to do :/
22:43	<@Vornicus>	No, I mean, the hex grid doesn't look right at all.
22:43	<@Vornicus>	For one thing you should be getting horizontal and vertical lines of hexes.
22:43	< Tarinaky>	No kidding.
22:44		* Tarinaky doesn't quite understand what he's doing :/
22:45	<@Vornicus>	What are you plugging in for x and y?
22:46	< Tarinaky>	for y in range (1,10):
22:46	< Tarinaky>	for x in range (1,10):
22:46	<@Vornicus>	that's /very/ strange.
22:47	< Tarinaky>	I got a better grid when I had a go at the maths but I couldn't quite figure out what numbers I needed :/
22:47	< Tarinaky>	I had a zero in the top-right of the Matrix though.
22:47	< Tarinaky>	Which was why I was a little perplexed because it's totally different to the matrix you gave me >.<
22:49	<@jerith>	Tarinaky: Position = (x, xmath.sqrt(3)/2 + y3/2)
22:50	< Tarinaky>	jerith: Bingo.
22:50	< Tarinaky>	What do I use for the 'scale'?
22:50	< Tarinaky>	To stop them overlapping?
22:50	< Tarinaky>	The size?
22:50	<@Vornicus>	That doesn't make sense iehter!
22:50	< Tarinaky>	Vornicus: That's closer to what I had.
22:51		* Vornicus fiddles. oh, it goes that direction, I see.
22:52	< Tarinaky>	http://i54.tinypic.com/6howue.png
22:53	<@Vornicus>	Your scaling then is sqrt(3)/2
22:54	< Tarinaky>	Vornicus: Doesn't seem so :/
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22:54	<@Vornicus>	Gnah, it should be.
22:54	<@Vornicus>	wtf.
22:55	< Tarinaky>	With hexes of 32px wide by 32px high - the scale -seems- to be between 20 and 21/
22:55	< Tarinaky>	Trying it by trial and error :/
22:58	<@Vornicus>	try sqrt(3)*32 / 3
22:59	< Tarinaky>	-Bing-.
22:59	< Tarinaky>	Oh wait.
22:59	< Tarinaky>	:/
22:59	< Tarinaky>	It works in the y but not the x.
22:59	< Tarinaky>	Then again - my hexagons aren't regular.
23:00	<@jerith>	That would explain a lot.
23:01	< Tarinaky>	I forgot but I cropped them a little so they'd fill up a square.
23:01	< Tarinaky>	If that makes sense.
23:01	< Tarinaky>	Errr... not cropped.
23:01	< Tarinaky>	Squished.
23:01	<@jerith>	You stretched them.
23:02	<@jerith>	So now they aren't regular hexes and thus maths for regular hexes won't work.
23:02	< Tarinaky>	Yeah. Sorry >.<
23:02	< Tarinaky>	http://github.com/Tarinaky/coulomb/blob/demos/py/hexagon.py
23:03	< Tarinaky>	Vertices = [(a(Size[0]-4)/2,b/math.sqrt(1.5)(Size[1]-4)/2) for (a,b) in Vertices] # Scale << Here's the bit that's squishing them
23:04	< Tarinaky>	http://i56.tinypic.com/21ozsiw.png << Here's what they look like atm.
23:09	< Tarinaky>	If I blow them up they stop lining up though >.<
23:09	< Tarinaky>	I think I need to go back to the drawing board with this don't I?
23:13	<@jerith>	Position = (x, ymath.sqrt(3) + ((-1)x)math.sqrt(3)/4)
23:13	<@jerith>	Use a scale of 16 and don't squish the hexes.
23:14	<@jerith>	Vertices = [(a/math.sqrt(1.5)(Size[0]-4)/2,b/math.sqrt(1.5)(Size[1]-4)/2) for (a,b) in Vertices] # Scale
23:14	< Tarinaky>	The problem is, if I don't squish the hexes they don't draw properly. :/
23:15	<@jerith>	Squish them equally in both directions, then.
23:16	< Tarinaky>	I'm going to have another crack at this tomorrow.
23:17	< Tarinaky>	Try and do the maths myself in the hopes it works out better >.<
23:18	<@jerith>	http://i51.tinypic.com/mh7zid.png
23:18	<@jerith>	I'm way too tired to check the maths, but that's what I get.
23:19	<@jerith>	Mostly trial and error once I fixed the shape of the hexes.
23:21	<@jerith>	Position = (x, ymath.sqrt(3) + xmath.sqrt(3)/2)
23:21	<@jerith>	That one if you want the rhomboid rather than the squarish layout.
23:22	<@jerith>	But it's past sleeptime now.
23:22	<@jerith>	G'night.
23:23	< Tarinaky>	Night.
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23:41		mode/#code [+o Kazriko] by Reiver
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23:58	< Tarinaky>	I think I have the figures for getting tesselation working.
--- Log closed Tue Oct 12 00:00:17 2010

code logs -> 2010 -> Mon, 11 Oct 2010

< code.20101010.log - code.20101012.log >