| --- Log opened Sun Sep 26 00:00:12 2010 |
| --- Day changed Sun Sep 26 2010 |
| 00:00 | < Vornicus> | So for instance: def user_top(card): deck.append(card) |
| 00:00 | < kaura> | Right. |
| 00:00 | < Vornicus> | Those operations that don't take any parameters, we're still going to want to fake it so it does; those operations that take parameters but don't want strings, we want to convert from string to whatever it needs in this wrapper. |
| 00:03 | < Vornicus> | er, no, wait |
| 00:03 | | Derakon is now known as Derakon[CIV] |
| 00:03 | < Vornicus> | def user_top(card): deck_top(deck, card) |
| 00:04 | < Vornicus> | Like that. We want to still use the operation functions we made (because we only want to say what that does once) but we want our interface to do the work of geting the deck and so forth because that way everything looks the same. |
| 00:07 | < kaura> | Right, so they can input the commands without having to know what the individual functions look like or were labeled as. |
| 00:08 | < Vornicus> | Right. |
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| 00:09 | < Vornicus> | Also, note that I'm using "deck" in the function; technically what we're doing is we'll make the ultimate load operation set the global "deck" variable, which then (since the function doesn't see any others) gets used as the input to deck_top. |
| 00:13 | < Vornicus> | So once you have the operations -- we're also going to make one for load, by the way, but I don't want you to do that one yet because it requires using something I haven't shown you -- pastebin your full code. |
| 00:23 | < kaura> | Lesse if I understood this right... http://pastebin.starforge.co.uk/369 |
| 00:28 | < Vornicus> | Mostly; however, your draw is not quite correct: draw itself expects a number. |
| 00:29 | < kaura> | ...hrn. |
| 00:30 | < Vornicus> | So what you have to do, since you're throwing in a string, is turn that string into a number. |
| 00:33 | < Vornicus> | We'll actually be going back to a couple of these later; this is where we will actually add proper error detection and so forth, and also where we will put together the printable results of calling the function. |
| 00:37 | < Vornicus> | (it's a very small correction that you need to do right now.) |
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| 00:40 | < kaura> | Small, and I can't remember it. ;_; Lesse.. |
| 00:41 | < Vornicus> | How do you turn a string into a number. |
| 00:41 | < kaura> | Well, you index it. |
| 00:41 | < kaura> | Oh. |
| 00:41 | < Vornicus> | not like that, no |
| 00:41 | < kaura> | ... |
| 00:41 | < kaura> | hrm. |
| 00:42 | < Vornicus> | It's something you did in your first program. |
| 00:43 | < kaura> | ...[] brackets around the list, right? |
| 00:44 | < Vornicus> | ...what |
| 00:44 | < Vornicus> | You have a string, looks like "5" |
| 00:44 | < Vornicus> | Turn that into a number |
| 00:45 | < kaura> | Argh. I should know this. |
| 00:45 | < Vornicus> | You used it in the program you made from that tutorial. |
| 00:46 | < Vornicus> | And also in the deck loading routine. |
| 00:48 | < kaura> | Oh, duh. int() |
| 00:48 | < Vornicus> | duh, indeed. |
| 00:48 | < Vornicus> | So what's your user_draw function look like? |
| 00:52 | < kaura> | Still inoperable, it seems. I have it as "def user_draw(x): x = int(x); draw(deck, x)" but apparently that's not right. If draw(deck, x) was active, it'd return a list, but it isn't. |
| 00:54 | < Vornicus> | Show me all the code. |
| 00:54 | < Vornicus> | And how you're trying user_draw |
| 00:56 | < kaura> | http://pastebin.starforge.co.uk/370 |
| 00:58 | < Vornicus> | Oh, oh, I see what's going on. |
| 00:58 | < Vornicus> | You're expecting it to give you something; as is, it will not, because it doesn't return anything. |
| 00:59 | < kaura> | ... Eh? But the original draw(deck, x) function has a return line. If it's supposed to trigger- oh, wait, /return/ draw(deck, x)? |
| 01:00 | < kaura> | ...in fact, that works. |
| 01:01 | < kaura> | Riiight, I see now. Having the function call up draw(deck, x) returns the results to the function. But then I have to tell the function to show it to me. |
| 01:03 | < kaura> | So user_draw, user_search, user_examine and user_peek all need to be told to return the results. |
| 01:03 | < Vornicus> | Right. |
| 01:04 | < kaura> | There we go. The fixed code. http://pastebin.starforge.co.uk/371 |
| 01:04 | < Vornicus> | And this actually is something we're going to change as we develop our thing: what we actually want is for the user_ functions to return the strings we want to print. But that's for a little later; we're going to flesh out all of them as we go. |
| 01:04 | < kaura> | Alright. |
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| 01:09 | < Vornicus> | Aaaaaanyway, now we have to write a "request input" function: first things first it will call raw_input (a short prompt is best; I usually use "> ") |
| 01:10 | < Vornicus> | And get a command. |
| 01:14 | < kaura> | ...ah, like the first program I wrote. > = raw_input('enter a command:') |
| 01:16 | < kaura> | ...oof, hold on. Speaking of inputs: stomach's complaining about the lack thereof for the last ten hours. |
| 01:18 | < Vornicus> | Heh,yes |
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| 02:13 | < Vornicus> | Anyway Kaura, when you get back, that line you appear to have used is incorrect: I was suggesting a prompt there, not the name of a variable; in fact, ">" doesn't work as a name of a variable. |
| 02:34 | < kaura> | Ah whups. |
| 02:40 | < Vornicus> | All right, so, after our request we have to break up the command into its name and its parameter(s) |
| 02:45 | < Vornicus> | We use split for this; however, we're going to have to do some additional work after we do the split -- if there's only one thing in the resulting list (use len) we have to append something to the list before sending it to the dispatch function (which we haven't written yet) |
| 02:48 | < kaura> | brb |
| 03:05 | < kaura> | Ah, sorry Vorn. Baby sister's bday dinner. Getting picked up in a bit. |
| 03:10 | < Vornicus> | ok |
| 03:11 | < Vornicus> | and happy birthday to baby sister! |
| 03:11 | < Vornicus> | From the internet! |
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| 05:52 | < Tarinaky> | Played the demo of Civ5. Was a bit disappointing. |
| 05:56 | | * Ortiha decides he needs to take up coding again. |
| 05:56 | | * Ortiha decides he may as well start his Grand Project Of Pathfinding Chaotic Nightmare. |
| 05:56 | | * Ortiha concludes this has a double advantage - gets him back into the groove, gives him an excuse to learn Python, and gives him an excuse to go bug his old lecturers at university for job contacts~ |
| 05:57 | < Ortiha> | And this project is most definately OO. >_> |
| 05:57 | < Ortiha> | Though functional programming it could be kind of hilarious. |
| 05:59 | < Ortiha> | First off: I need to know how to write even a basic requirements document. I suck at these; I am good at describing things on IRC but not on writing shit down. |
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| --- Log closed Sun Sep 26 06:56:54 2010 |
| --- Log opened Sun Sep 26 06:57:08 2010 |
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| 20:02 | <@Derakon> | It occurs to me that box design is a variant on the packing problem. |
| 20:03 | <@Derakon> | I have a set of pieces, and I want to fit them into open-topped containers without leaving enough vertical clearance for them to spill out when the lid on the overall box is closed. |
| 20:03 | <@Derakon> | I get to choose the size of the containers, but they have to be big enough to fit all the pieces and small enough that they don't get messy (and I don't waste lots of space). |
| 20:03 | <@Derakon> | No wonder this is hard~ |
| 20:12 | | * Vornicus finally gets around to testing Tarinaky's IF. Finds himself looking for a particular thing in the recipe book. |
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| 20:35 | | * Vornicus gets to a showstopper. |
| 20:45 | | * Vornicus sends beta comments. |
| 20:46 | < Vornicus> | Der: yeah, the hard part is making sure stuff doesn't fall out. |
| 20:46 | < Vornicus> | You need the layers to pack tightly, so the maximum slack is less than the thickness of a piece of card. |
| 20:47 | <@Derakon> | I think I have a design. |
| 20:48 | <@Derakon> | I have to model it to see if it looks plausible, though. It currently just sounds plausible. |
| 20:48 | < Vornicus> | heh |
| 20:49 | <@Derakon> | (And before I can post this design, I have to post the pictures of PuertoBox, which are currently downloading from my camera) |
| 20:49 | < Vornicus> | (Yay!) |
| 20:52 | <@Derakon> | http://derakon.dyndns.org/~chriswei/temp/puertoBox1.jpg |
| 20:52 | <@Derakon> | http://derakon.dyndns.org/~chriswei/temp/puertoBox2.jpg |
| 20:52 | <@Derakon> | http://derakon.dyndns.org/~chriswei/temp/puertoBox3.jpg |
| 20:53 | < Vornicus> | Oh, nice. |
| 20:56 | < Vornicus> | Got a height comparison? |
| 20:56 | <@TheWatcher> | Nice work, Dera! |
| 20:56 | <@Derakon> | Thanks. |
| 20:56 | <@Derakon> | Vorn: no...a moment~ |
| 21:00 | <@Derakon> | I wish my camera worked like a standard thumb drive instead of requiring special (hideously slow) software to download images off of the CF card. |
| 21:01 | <@Derakon> | There's only yone photo on the card, but it has to search the entire 4GB thing to figure that out. |
| 21:01 | < Vornicus> | Yeah, for some ungodly reason, cameras tend to be special devices. |
| 21:01 | <@Derakon> | Anyway, http://derakon.dyndns.org/~chriswei/temp/puertoBox4.jpg |
| 21:02 | < Vornicus> | Yay shorter! |
| 21:02 | < Vornicus> | Also, much later on I came up with an idea for hiding screw holes. |
| 21:04 | < Vornicus> | What you can do is add a thin border to the cover; possibly even (if you really feel like mangling your box) cut out the image and name from there and kind of frame it. |
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| 21:08 | < Vornicus> | I don't think I'd have picked a chestnut finish though. |
| 21:08 | <@Derakon> | The varnish claims to be mahogany. *shrug* |
| 21:08 | <@Derakon> | What would you have picked? |
| 21:09 | < Vornicus> | Something lighter. |
| 21:09 | <@Derakon> | Part of the problem was the way the filler in the plywood takes the varnish compared to the way the birch part of it does. |
| 21:10 | <@Derakon> | Of the varnishes I tried, this one did the best job of minimizing that difference without being ridiculously dark. I had a lighter varnish I also liked, but the filler looked a bit odd. |
| 21:10 | < Vornicus> | Ah, that would be a problem. |
| 21:10 | <@Derakon> | (I wouldn't have used plywood in the first place...but you can't really get 1/4"-thick wood that isn't plywood, AFAICT) |
| 21:12 | < Vornicus> | 1/4" thick is tough, yes. Balsa though comes in thin sizes. |
| 21:12 | <@Derakon> | It's not very strong though, is it? |
| 21:13 | < Vornicus> | Balsa is actually noted for its high strength. |
| 21:13 | < Vornicus> | It's used a lot in, for instance, architectural models. You wouldn't be able to lean on it, but it'd certainly take more beating than you'd expect. |
| 21:14 | <@Derakon> | Well, AgriBox will be made of the same materials as PuertoBox, seeing as I still have an entire 4'x8' sheet to use up. |
| 21:14 | <@Derakon> | ...er, 2'x4'. |
| 21:15 | < Vornicus> | And, now that I think about it, the appropriate wood for a Puerto Rico box is... teak. :) |
| 21:15 | <@Derakon> | Uh huh. |
| 21:20 | < Vornicus> | (teak though is expensive and not easy to get thin; plywood or balsa with a teak finish would be better.) |
| 21:26 | | * TheWatcher sads at the wood supply here: trying to get anything other than pine is nigh impossible, and insanely expensive when you do :/ |
| 21:30 | <@Derakon> | Pine, and birch plywood, are by far the most dominant materials here too. |
| 21:35 | < Orthia> | Derakon: That looks lovely. How did the magnets work out? |
| 21:35 | < Orthia> | As for local wood supply: PINE FOR THE PINE GOD |
| 21:35 | < Orthia> | Unless you wish to outcompete with our export market. ;_; |
| 21:36 | <@Derakon> | Reiv: I took a complete guess at how much of a gap to leave, so the seal isn't strong. But it doesn't need to be, so that's fine. |
| 21:36 | <@Derakon> | Just don't turn the box upside-down. |
| 21:36 | < Orthia> | Aha, fair enough |
| 21:37 | | * Orthia tries to think through the fog that is his brain. Has decided to learn Python, lulz. |
| 21:37 | < Orthia> | (Again~) |
| 21:37 | | Thaqui [Thaqui@27B34E.D54D49.F53FA1.6A113C] has quit [[NS] Quit: Leaving] |
| 21:37 | < Orthia> | (Never seem to quite get there do I~) |
| 21:37 | <@Derakon> | You should join up with Kaura~ |
| 21:37 | < Orthia> | Partly the inspiration~ |
| 21:38 | < Orthia> | Anyway: I think I want to get it working, then write bubble and squeak, then start on an Actual Project. |
| 21:38 | < Orthia> | Graphics be damned, if I get the mechanics working it might inspire me to push on... |
| 21:38 | <@Derakon> | Bubble and squeak? |
| 21:39 | < Orthia> | Iterator: IIRC, it's like, every line is Bubble, every 5 lines is Squeak, every 20 lines is BubbleSqueak. |
| 21:39 | < Orthia> | It's half a step beyond Hello World~ |
| 21:40 | < Vornicus> | No, no. |
| 21:40 | < Vornicus> | FizzBuzz |
| 21:40 | < Orthia> | Because I happen to know that Hello World in Python is so ridiculously 'easy' that it doesn't teach you anything. >_> |
| 21:40 | < Orthia> | Vorn: I've heard that too. They are equivalent, iirc? |
| 21:40 | < Vornicus> | Almost. |
| 21:40 | < Orthia> | How do they differ? |
| 21:40 | < Vornicus> | Every line shows the line number, unless it's divisible by 3 or 5. |
| 21:40 | <@TheWatcher> | Reiv: As opposed to Hello World in, say, Java~ |
| 21:40 | < celticminstrel> | Does Hello World teach you anything in other languages/ |
| 21:40 | < celticminstrel> | ? |
| 21:41 | < Orthia> | TheWatcher: Where learning the line teaches you 2/3rds of the commands you'll be using for the rest of your life, and introduces just how much pain you're in for?~ |
| 21:41 | < Vornicus> | On a multiple of 3 it says "Fizz", of 5 it says "Buzz", and of both it says "FizzBuzz" |
| 21:41 | <@Derakon> | CelticMinstrel: yes. |
| 21:41 | <@TheWatcher> | Well, in Java it teaches you that the language designer /fucking hates you/ ¬¬ |
| 21:41 | <@Derakon> | In other languages, it teaches you the magic invocations needed to make a program the compiler/interpreter recognizes. |
| 21:41 | < Orthia> | Vorn: ... that sounds just as good, if actually somewhat easier. |
| 21:41 | <@Derakon> | E.g. "int main(int argc, char** argv)" |
| 21:42 | < Orthia> | It's a loop with two if statements. |
| 21:43 | < celticminstrel> | Wouldn't it be three if statements? |
| 21:43 | < Orthia> | Celtic: Mmaybe, but it depends how you write it. |
| 21:43 | < Orthia> | Then again, Python may prefer three. I don't much know. |
| 21:44 | < Orthia> | (I may be cheating by using an else~) |
| 21:44 | < celticminstrel> | Oh wait, you can do it in two. |
| 21:44 | < celticminstrel> | if(x%3 == 0) cout << "Fizz"; if(x%5 == 0) cout << "Buzz"; cout << endl; |
| 21:44 | <@Derakon> | For line in lines: str = ''; if lineNum % 3 == 0: str += 'Fizz; if lineNum % 5 == 0: str += 'Buzz'; print str |
| 21:45 | < Orthia> | Do either of those output the line number in non-fizz/buzz cases? |
| 21:45 | < Vornicus> | celmin: missing something there. |
| 21:45 | < celticminstrel> | Derakon: Wouldn't you need to do "for (lineNum,line) in enumerate(lines)" for that to work? |
| 21:45 | <@Derakon> | Reiv: as written, neither work~ |
| 21:46 | <@Derakon> | CM: yes, that would make mine more functional. |
| 21:46 | < celticminstrel> | And yeah, Vornicus, I just wrote the contents of the loop, not the loop itself. |
| 21:46 | < Vornicus> | No, you're /still/ missing something. |
| 21:46 | < celticminstrel> | Okay. |
| 21:46 | < Orthia> | Vorn: Was I right?~ |
| 21:46 | < celticminstrel> | What am I missing? |
| 21:46 | < Vornicus> | You need to print the counter number when you're not printing Fizz or Buzz. |
| 21:46 | < celticminstrel> | Oh. |
| 21:47 | < celticminstrel> | Well, that complicates matters. |
| 21:48 | < Namegduf> | I personally think the dumb approach is the easiest to read, anyway. |
| 21:48 | <@Derakon> | Namegduf: it often is. |
| 21:48 | < Orthia> | Do I want Python 2.7 or 3.1.2 ? |
| 21:48 | <@Derakon> | 2.7. |
| 21:49 | <@Derakon> | Eventually you'll want to upgrade to Python 3, but that generally should wait until your libraries have been updated. |
| 21:49 | <@TheWatcher> | Neither, Perl 5.10~ |
| 21:49 | <@Derakon> | You don't know what libraries you want to use yet, but odds are many of them haven't been updated yet. |
| 21:49 | < Orthia> | TheWatcher: I wish to learn to program a new language, not lose my sanity~ |
| 21:49 | <@TheWatcher> | Bah! |
| 21:49 | <@TheWatcher> | Bah, I say. |
| 21:50 | < Orthia> | However |
| 21:50 | < Orthia> | I may yet take you up on that in the future |
| 21:50 | < Vornicus> | fb = ""; if n % 3 == 0: fb += "Fizz";; if n % 5 == 0: fb += "Buzz";; print (fb or n) |
| 21:51 | < celticminstrel> | I recently installed Python 2.7 and Python 3.1 on my Mac. At the same time. |
| 21:51 | < Orthia> | Ableit my motives for Python is reducing the amount of slightly optimistic exaggeration my CV is doing at the moment, while putting down Perl would involve a whole new line~ |
| 21:51 | < Orthia> | celticminstrel: Like, whoa, maaan |
| 21:51 | < Namegduf> | XD |
| 21:51 | < celticminstrel> | ...what? |
| 21:52 | < Orthia> | Vorn: "print (fb or n)" works, I presume, in that fb isn't printed unless it's non-null? |
| 21:52 | <@Derakon> | Non-empty, yes. |
| 21:52 | <@Derakon> | "foo or bar" returns foo if foo evaluates to true as a boolean, or bar otherwise. |
| 21:52 | < celticminstrel> | Did I say something wrong? >_> |
| 21:53 | <@Derakon> | I trust that Vorn would not normally pull such shenanigans, but this does seem to be one-liner day~ |
| 21:53 | < Vornicus> | I would not, normally, pull such shenanigans, no. |
| 21:53 | <@TheWatcher> | Reiv: i have python 2.7 and 3.1 installed on this linux box simultaneously, it's not an issue to do it |
| 21:53 | < Vornicus> | also my improved version uses "if not n % 3" |
| 21:54 | < Orthia> | TheWatcher: No, I was accusing celticminstrel of doing Crazy Shit, You Damn Hippies and all that. |
| 21:54 | <@TheWatcher> | uhhuh |
| 21:54 | <@ToxicFrog> | (1 to 100) map { _ match { case x if x % 3 == 0 && x % 5 == 0 => "FizzBuzz"; case x if x % 5 == 0 => "Buzz"; case x if x % 3 == 0 => "Fizz"; case x => x; } } foreach (System.out.println _) |
| 21:54 | <@ToxicFrog> | ?? |
| 21:55 | < celticminstrel> | So, is there some reason not to do "print nb or n" stuff? |
| 21:55 | < Vornicus> | celmin: it's not very clear. |
| 21:56 | < Orthia> | It's a sudden gotcha in the codes behavior that comes at the exact end of the codes purpose, IIRC. |
| 21:56 | | * Derakon eyes AgriBox. "Tolerances on the cards section are pretty tight. :\" |
| 21:56 | <@Derakon> | Celtic: as a general rule, you shouldn't abuse boolean shortcircuiting outside of sections where you actually expect a boolean conditional statement (i.e. if/else/while). |
| 21:56 | < Orthia> | If you were carefully following the state of fb the way through, it's better for fb to be worked on directly than for it to suddenly be thrown out at the last moment. |
| 21:58 | < Orthia> | So, while that's downloading... The Project. |
| 21:59 | < Orthia> | First off: Learning how to write a requirements document. Because I suck at requirements documents. |
| 21:59 | < Orthia> | Oh, I'm good at Describing Somethings Behavior on IRC, but the moment I'm given a page to Do It Properly, I flounder like a seal in molasses. |
| 22:00 | < Orthia> | All three may be tasty, but nothing productive is done. |
| 22:00 | < celticminstrel> | Of course, it doesn't even work in C/C++. |
| 22:00 | <@ToxicFrog> | And you don't get stuff done without a requirements document? |
| 22:01 | < Orthia> | ToxicFrog: In this case, I am considering it Good Practice to be able to write even an informal one. |
| 22:02 | < Orthia> | So that other people know what it is I am trying to achieve in a system that is relatively complex and liable to start wandering towards the realm of AI before I am done. |
| 22:07 | < Orthia> | First and foremost, I think I want to write one - or at least something along the lines - because I am trying to construct a simplistic economic simulation. |
| 22:09 | | * Derakon eyes Blender. "I appear to have miscalculated somewhere along the way." |
| 22:10 | <@Derakon> | I've left myself 3.75x2.5x2.5" for the house tiles and animals. |
| 22:10 | <@Derakon> | Not quite enough. |
| 22:30 | <@Derakon> | ...no, I don't think a .75"x2"x1.25" trough would work well for storing animals. Sigh. |
| 22:31 | <@Derakon> | I mean, they'd fit, but you'd have a devil of a time getting them in/out. |
| 22:32 | <@Derakon> | A shame, this design was looking promising. |
| 22:44 | | DuskRainbow is now known as AnnoDomini |
| 23:29 | | Thaqui [Thaqui@27B34E.D54D49.F53FA1.6A113C] has joined #code |
| --- Log closed Mon Sep 27 00:00:54 2010 |