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code logs -> 2010 -> Sat, 10 Jul 2010< code.20100709.log - code.20100711.log >
--- Log opened Sat Jul 10 00:00:47 2010
00:07
<@McMartin>
In particular, you need DX9 to run on XP
00:08
<@McMartin>
On the other hand, DX10 means you don't have to have your graphics stuff run directly in kernel mode because the drivers are a lot smarter
00:08
<@McMartin>
On the third hand, that gives you even less control.
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02:35
< RichardBarrell>
If you're ever writing Python.
02:35
< RichardBarrell>
And someone suggests that you should try Plone.
02:35
< RichardBarrell>
Just fucking hurt them.
02:40
<@Vornicus>
'k
02:44
< RichardBarrell>
You can justify it as preemptive revenge.
02:44
< RichardBarrell>
It'd practically be self-defence.
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10:34
< simon_>
hmm
10:40
<@Vornicus>
hmm?
10:43
<@AnnoDomini>
Hmm!
10:43
< simon_>
someone told me of faster than light travel in cellular automata
10:43
< simon_>
but the resources I can find online all suggest that they're illusions.
10:44
<@McMartin>
That is my understanding as well; it's like drawing an animation where the frame rate and the distance traveled is such as to suggest a movement speed greater than c
10:44
< simon_>
right. I suppose it makes sense that it can only appear to happen if moving into something that changes such that the information appears to be moving faster.
10:47
<@Vornicus>
Essentially what's happening in ">c travel" in automata is the leading edge of your incoming spaceship triggers a change in the "tunnel" that completes the /trailing/ edge of the spaceship, and does so at c.
10:47
< simon_>
maybe that qualifies as pseudo-teleportation because some of the information has technically been moved in advance.
10:47
< simon_>
right
10:48
<@Vornicus>
or at least close enough to c...
10:53
<@Vornicus>
(and then if it doesn't receive the signal, the spaceship construction fails.)
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11:16
< AbuDhabi>
C++. I have a method that returns the address of a private variable. I can apparently read this variable through the use of this pointer. Why is this?
11:17
< AbuDhabi>
Shouldn't the variable be, well, private?
11:17
< Namegduf>
The private variable is.
11:17
< Namegduf>
Additional variables pointing to the same location in memory are not.
11:17
< Namegduf>
Similar to const.
11:19
< AbuDhabi>
I see.
11:20 Vornicus is now known as Vornicus-Latens
11:22
< Namegduf>
Your methods get to determine how to handle this safely, and damn you.
11:22 * Namegduf is imagining horribly bizarre schemes for access control based on methods returning or not returning pointers to things
11:23
< AbuDhabi>
I'm doing message passing in C++! :V
11:37
<@McMartin>
C++ is not actually a typesafe language; everything is possible with enough knowledge of your compiler internals.
11:37
<@TheWatcher>
... why are you returning the address of a private variable
11:37
<@McMartin>
It's not as bad as reassigning your vtable >_<
11:38
< AbuDhabi>
TheWatcher: To read it via pointers, of course.
11:39
<@TheWatcher>
I reiterate, why. Accessor methods, even if they're inline, won't break your encapsulation.
11:39
< AbuDhabi>
Well, I'm doing message passing. The in() method takes pointers as arguments. The out() method returns a pointer.
11:40
< AbuDhabi>
I could just as well make the variable a public one.
11:40
< AbuDhabi>
That I didn't need to surprised me.
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11:42
< AbuDhabi>
McMartin: What's a vtable and how do I reassign it? :p
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11:44
<@McMartin>
The vtable is the internal compiler-generated structure that maps objects to their methods at run-time. You reassing it by reinterpret-casting the object to a byte array, reinterpret-casting a chunk of it to a void pointer, and then reassigning it to some other class's vtable.
11:44
<@McMartin>
Under compiler-dependent conditions, this allows you to morph an object of one class into another one under the nose of the runtime
11:45
<@McMartin>
The most worrying thing? I was taught this technique by a college professor who genuinely believed that this was a useful technique.
11:45
< Namegduf>
Wow.
11:45
<@McMartin>
I have observed before in-channel that I'm not really an OO true believer
11:45
<@McMartin>
Shit like this is why~
11:45
<@McMartin>
Well, part of why.
11:46
< Namegduf>
I have to say.
11:46
< Namegduf>
That's powerful.
11:46
< Namegduf>
That's all it is.
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11:48
<@TheWatcher>
It's asking for fuckign trouble, is all it is ;)
11:49
< AbuDhabi>
It seems like something you do to keep your job forever. :p
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12:01
< Namegduf>
I thought that was the point of being a C++ programmer.
12:04
< AbuDhabi>
Is C++ the ancient language that ensures employment because someone always needs C++ programmers to maintain ancient, cyclopean code for applications written in the mists of time that are still the backbones for companies today?
12:06
< AbuDhabi>
(BTW, is there a language, besides C and its ilk, that produces native code and can be ported without much hassle between platforms, given some care about using only portable libraries and stuff?)
12:31
<@McMartin>
The wacky functionals like Haskell and Gambit
12:33
< AbuDhabi>
Are they useful?
12:34
<@TheWatcher>
All languages are useful, for some reason or another.
12:35
< Namegduf>
Brainfuck.
12:35
< Namegduf>
:P
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12:36
<@TheWatcher>
Still useful - either as a warning, or as a challenge.
12:36
< Namegduf>
Haha.
12:37
< AbuDhabi>
TheWatcher: What I mean is, are they useful for normal stuff? Like writing a convenience application, a simple game or something along those lines.
12:39
<@TheWatcher>
Haskell certainly can be. Never really gone nere Gambit
12:39
<@TheWatcher>
*near
12:43
< AbuDhabi>
Will it be - assuming equal competence in both - as easy to do so as when using something like C?
12:46
<@Vornicus-Latens>
It depends vastly on the application.
12:48
< AbuDhabi>
Can you give some examples? I don't know the first thing about functional languages.
12:48
<@Vornicus-Latens>
Haskell and C are so different that you won't recognize the same algorithm written in both.
12:50 * Vornicus-Latens has never actually programmed in Haskell, so this might be tricky!
12:53
<@TheWatcher>
I looked at it, declared it Madness, and went back to sane languages like c++ and perl~ >.>
12:53
< Namegduf>
I intend to learn it "sometime"
12:53
< Namegduf>
Where "sometime" is "later"
12:53
< AbuDhabi>
And "later" is "never"?
12:53
< Namegduf>
Hopefully not.
12:53
< Namegduf>
But not soon, unfortunately.
12:53
<@TheWatcher>
"when you get a roundtoit"
12:53
< Namegduf>
Right!
12:53
<@TheWatcher>
(I've seen them for sale!)
12:54 * Vornicus-Latens hunts around for one that's a little less obvious than factorial, jeez.
12:57
< AbuDhabi>
So, uh, do you need to be a cultist of Azathoth to use Haskell and co?
12:58
<@Vornicus-Latens>
Ah, here we are.
12:58
<@Vornicus-Latens>
This is the fibonacci sequence, in haskell:
12:58
<@Vornicus-Latens>
fibs = 0 : 1 : zipWith (+) fibs (tail fibs)
12:58
<@TheWatcher>
AbuDhabi: no, Yog Sothoth is the opener of the way.~
13:01
< AbuDhabi>
Ia Ia!
13:02
<@Vornicus-Latens>
And here's the same thing, in Python: FIBS_CACHE = [0,1] def fibs(k): if k < len(FIBS_CACHE): return FIBS_CACHE[k];; elif k == len(FIBS_CACHE): FIBS_CACHE.append(sum(FIBS_CACHE[-2:]); return FIBS_CACHE[-1];; else: return fibs(k-1) + fibs(k-2);;;
13:03
< AbuDhabi>
Vornicus-Latens: So, the Haskell one, it defines fibs as 0,1 and adding the last two elements together as another tailing element?
13:03
<@Vornicus-Latens>
Yes.
13:03
<@Vornicus-Latens>
and actually it will hold off on figuring out what the actual value is until it actually needs it.
13:03
< AbuDhabi>
Sounds prudent. :P
13:03
<@Vornicus-Latens>
--but once it's found it it tends to hang on to it.
13:05
<@Vornicus-Latens>
(also, doing fibonnacci without a cache is crazy talk.)
13:07
<@Vornicus-Latens>
('less you're doing it the approximation method.)
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14:27
<@ToxicFrog>
\o/ Haskell!
14:28 * AbuDhabi greets the cultist of Yog Sothoth?
14:28
<@ToxicFrog>
AbuDhabi: I note that if you count JIT as "generating native code", all of the JVM languages qualify.
14:29
<@ToxicFrog>
Eh, not sure if I really count as a cultist, I like Haskell in the abstract but somehow I never end up using it.
14:29
<@ToxicFrog>
I tend to reach for Scala instead.
14:43
< simon_>
you use scala for practical purposes?
14:43 * simon_ has a scala book that he never bothers reading.
14:45
<@ToxicFrog>
Yes, of course. It's like Haskell's more practical cousin.
14:45
<@ToxicFrog>
I've been working on a little web thing to help me keep track of my games, and I've been using it a lot at work for source to source transforms.
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--- Log closed Sun Jul 11 00:00:48 2010
code logs -> 2010 -> Sat, 10 Jul 2010< code.20100709.log - code.20100711.log >
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