| --- Log opened Wed Jul 07 00:00:24 2010 |
| --- Day changed Wed Jul 07 2010 |
| 00:00 | | TarinakyKai [Tarinaky@Nightstar-f349ca6d.plus.com] has quit [Connection closed] |
| 00:02 | < gnolam> | Because it's Linux and nobody cares about it? |
| 00:03 | < PinkFreud> | unh huh. |
| 00:04 | < gnolam> | And nobody's pushing Ralink as What Will Make Everyone Independent From Microsoft. |
| 00:21 | < PinkFreud> | problem is, ralink makes cheap wireless chipsets. they show up everywhere, from Eeepcs to Linksys cards. |
| 00:22 | < PinkFreud> | a driver which used to work suddenly doesn't, without a 3rd party patch (which breaks WEP, just to fix WPA). Ralink doesn't appear to be too interested in fixing it. |
| 00:29 | | Attilla [Attilla@Nightstar-1d034b72.threembb.co.uk] has quit [[NS] Quit: ] |
| 00:32 | | You're now known as TheWatcher[T-2] |
| 00:34 | | You're now known as TheWatcher[zZzZ] |
| 00:38 | | Derakon[AFK] is now known as Derakon |
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| 02:16 | <@Kazriko> | PinkFreud, aw, that patch breaks wep? I guess it's a good thing that no network I connect to still uses it. :) |
| 02:27 | < PinkFreud> | Kazriko: I'm not terribly worried about it. If it were for a notebook or netbook, I'd be annoyed. However, my HTPC is using it. That only lives in one spot. :) |
| 02:59 | | Thaqui [Thaqui@27B34E.D54D49.F53FA1.6A113C] has joined #code |
| 03:32 | | * Derakon mutters at Google Code, which is giving him a server error when he tries to view the "Source" tab. |
| 03:32 | <@Derakon> | It would be nice if this worked, guys. |
| 03:40 | < Rhamphoryncus> | Derakon: just use google's handy-dandy, super-responsive bug reporting mechanism.. nevermind |
| 03:50 | <@Derakon> | Yeah, I made a post to their newsgroup. |
| 03:50 | <@Derakon> | It's gotten one response -- a "me too". |
| 04:13 | < PinkFreud> | yeah, google doesn't appear to have a terribly spectacular track record of fixing their bugs. |
| 04:14 | < PinkFreud> | I've been discovering this about Android. |
| 04:14 | <@Derakon> | What, isn't Android still in beta~? |
| 04:14 | < PinkFreud> | unlikely. they're up to 2.2 or 2.3 now. |
| 04:16 | <@Derakon> | Surely they just forgot the leading "0.". |
| 04:16 | < PinkFreud> | Android has this one amazing bug where, in certain cases, if your phone suffers a sudden power loss, the provisioning config can become corrupt, and you're forced to do a factory reset to reprovision the phone. |
| 04:16 | < PinkFreud> | this one has persisted since the first Android release. |
| 04:17 | < PinkFreud> | I've personally encountered it twice. |
| 04:31 | <@Derakon> | Don't suffer sudden power losses~? |
| 04:31 | < PinkFreud> | I try not to, but it's not always something you can plan. |
| 04:31 | < PinkFreud> | battery going flat is one such event - and the time it happened, I was not expecting it. |
| 04:32 | < PinkFreud> | the second time it happened, Android decided it'd crash and rebooted itself. |
| 04:32 | < PinkFreud> | kinda hard to plan for an OS crash. |
| 04:33 | < PinkFreud> | thing is - it's a phone. the device should be robust enough to handle the occasional unexpected power loss. |
| 04:33 | < PinkFreud> | ... it's not. |
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| 06:55 | | mode/#code [+o AnnoDomini] by Reiver |
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| 07:43 | < ryan> | I forget, is there a simple way to pass a tuple as two separate arguments in python |
| 07:44 | < ryan> | like, given a tuple (x, y), is there something I can do to make that an acceptable argument to a method that takes a separate x and y argument |
| 07:44 | < ryan> | never mind, figured it out |
| 07:45 | <@Vornicus> | *my_tuple does it, I don't know if it works if you've got more than just that in the call. |
| 07:45 | < ryan> | yeah that's what I was looking for |
| 07:45 | < ryan> | I was misled because I was too lazy to set up a function in the repl and tried just testing "*(1,2)" by itself |
| 07:45 | < ryan> | which of course doesn't do anything |
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| 09:23 | | You're now known as TheWatcher |
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| 10:31 | | * gnolam ponders Geiger counter clicks. |
| 10:36 | <@TheWatcher> | They tick you off? |
| 10:37 | < gnolam> | Pfft. |
| 10:44 | < gnolam> | I have at best a 50 Hz update frequency. Within a reasonable time interval, I have to be able to transition between background levels of radiation to, well, this: http://www.lysator.liu.se/~gnolam/temp/P-33.wav |
| 10:45 | < gnolam> | At background levels I can actually simulate each count event. |
| 10:45 | < gnolam> | Not so for high cps levels. |
| 10:48 | < gnolam> | Which makes me think "prerecorded sample loops for a set number of cps intervals". But the question is if the level transitions will be noticeable. |
| 10:48 | <@AnnoDomini> | Try it? |
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| 11:04 | | Vornicus is now known as Vornicus-Latens |
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| 13:06 | < PinkFreud> | 07:54 <smyows> when debian sid will be avaiable stable release? |
| 13:07 | <@ToxicFrog> | error: <stdin>:1: adjective expected, got 'avaiable' |
| 13:07 | | * AbuDhabi lols twice. |
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| 15:16 | | * TheWatcher eyes this comment |
| 15:16 | <@TheWatcher> | "Godawful hack... we'll be frequently passed selected namespaces as strings since PHP is such a shithole." |
| 15:56 | < gnolam> | Balls. Apparently, there's no built-in method to put VGUI panels on world models. |
| 15:56 | < gnolam> | Back to the old drawing board... |
| 17:04 | | You're now known as TheWatcher[afk] |
| 17:30 | | Attilla [Attilla@Nightstar-98edf1c7.threembb.co.uk] has joined #code |
| 17:30 | | mode/#code [+o Attilla] by Reiver |
| 18:48 | | * gnolam prods Source with something sharp. |
| 18:48 | < gnolam> | It's messing up the Z ordering. >:( |
| 18:52 | < gnolam> | Hmm. On second thought, it isn't. But it's drawing something transparent in the regular solids pipeline. |
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| 20:36 | < AbuDhabi> | http://bash.org.pl/632308/ |
| 20:38 | <@jerith> | Is there context there that I missed? |
| 20:41 | < AbuDhabi> | Presidential elections in Poland. |
| 20:42 | | Vornicus-Latens is now known as Vornicus |
| 20:43 | | Derakon [Derakon@Nightstar-1ffd02e6.ucsf.edu] has joined #code |
| 20:43 | | mode/#code [+o Derakon] by Reiver |
| 20:43 | | * Derakon mutters at Python |
| 20:43 | <@Derakon> | Why won't you let me do "lambda foo: globalVariable = foo"? |
| 20:43 | <@jerith> | Because lambdas are exressions. |
| 20:43 | <@jerith> | *expressions |
| 20:43 | <@jerith> | They must return a value. |
| 20:44 | <@Derakon> | And that value is a function that, when called, assigns a value to a variable in global scope. |
| 20:45 | <@jerith> | The body of the lambda must be an expression. |
| 20:45 | <@Derakon> | Why? |
| 20:45 | <@jerith> | Dunno. |
| 20:45 | <@Derakon> | Well, you're no help then. :p |
| 20:45 | <@McMartin> | Because "globalVariable = foo" is a statement, not an expression. |
| 20:46 | <@Derakon> | Which brings us back to "Why must the body of a lambda be an expression" |
| 20:46 | <@jerith> | You can write a one-line function and reference that. |
| 20:46 | <@McMartin> | Lambdas always have to be expressions. It's just that most languages have assignment be an expression even though it's not one. |
| 20:46 | <@Derakon> | Yes, but then I have a one-line function. I find lambdas more elegant in this context. |
| 20:47 | <@McMartin> | Python is not big on upvalues. |
| 20:47 | <@Derakon> | (If they would just do what I want) |
| 20:47 | <@Derakon> | McM: yeah, I noticed. Proper closures would be lovely to have. |
| 20:47 | | Kazriko [kaz@Nightstar-e09690fa.client.bresnan.net] has joined #code |
| 20:47 | <@McMartin> | Proper closures and dynamic variable binding do not mix. |
| 20:47 | | mode/#code [+o Kazriko] by Reiver |
| 20:48 | <@McMartin> | Well. |
| 20:48 | <@Derakon> | So what are the benefits of dynamic variable binding, then? |
| 20:48 | <@McMartin> | You don't have to declare all your variables? |
| 20:48 | <@Derakon> | I've mostly just been confused by the error messages they generate when I screw up. |
| 20:48 | <@Derakon> | Oh, wait, I misunderstood what was meant by that term then. |
| 20:48 | <@ToxicFrog> | <McMartin> Lambdas always have to be expressions. It's just that most languages have assignment be an expression even though it's not one. |
| 20:48 | <@ToxicFrog> | Erm |
| 20:48 | <@McMartin> | Not dynamic typing. |
| 20:49 | <@ToxicFrog> | This implies that anonymous functions the bodies of which are not expressions, are not lambdas |
| 20:49 | <@Derakon> | McM: no, I was thinking of the "you named a variable the same thing as a module in this function, so we're going to complain when you try to refer to the module before you set the variable". |
| 20:49 | <@Derakon> | (Which, granted, I shouldn't name variables the same as modules in the first place) |
| 20:50 | <@McMartin> | Derakon: Oh, not that. This is "I just said 'x = 3'. Did I mean to create a new x, or did I mean to assign to a previously defined x somewhere up the lexical tree?" |
| 20:51 | <@ToxicFrog> | McMartin: have I been using "lambda" wrong all of these years? I was under the impression that it was any anonymous function. |
| 20:51 | <@McMartin> | Which is one of those cases like diamond inheritance where all the answers are demonstrably wrong, so you either pick one (Scheme), forbid it outright (Python), or make a precondition for the statement impossible (Haskell). |
| 20:51 | <@McMartin> | TF: Eeeeh. There's a lot of wiggle room. |
| 20:51 | <@McMartin> | My point here is that Python's insistence on this can't be called wrong for incompleteness, just inconvenience. |
| 20:52 | <@Derakon> | Which is jarring because it's normally such a convenient language. |
| 20:52 | <@McMartin> | In actual lambda calculus there isn't any assignable state in the first place so, what with everything being a function, your statement holds trivially |
| 20:53 | <@McMartin> | Derakon: Python also has a tendency to break out The Hammer and smash flat the whole city block if it knows spiders lurk in it. |
| 20:53 | <@Derakon> | Heh. |
| 20:53 | <@McMartin> | And because of the upvalue thing this is one of those places |
| 20:53 | <@McMartin> | I'm honestly amazed that Python allows MI |
| 20:53 | <@Derakon> | You mean multiple inheritance? |
| 20:53 | <@McMartin> | Yeah |
| 20:53 | <@jerith> | super() is so full of spiders I hesitate to use it at all. |
| 20:55 | <@ToxicFrog> | Right. But of languages that do have assignable state, the only one I've used that I can think of offhand that forbids statements in anonymous functions -and- isn't an everything-is-an-expression language is Python. |
| 20:55 | <@McMartin> | I can't come up with any that *have* anonymous functions and aren't an everything-is-an-expression language. |
| 20:56 | <@Vornicus> | Is everything an expression in JS? |
| 20:56 | <@McMartin> | (Derakon: IIRC, the Benevolent Dictator For Life has spoken on the closures thing and the True Way is to use objects for them, which are roughly equivalent) |
| 20:57 | <@Derakon> | (I'm just trying to be reasonably terse here in a context that demands I pass a function in) |
| 20:58 | <@jerith> | Derakon: This annoys me too. |
| 20:58 | <@jerith> | Also, I often want an "if" block to be an expression. |
| 21:03 | <@ToxicFrog> | McMartin: Lua, for starters. There's a sharp (and often annoying) divide between statements and expressions; in particular assignments and flow control are statements. |
| 21:03 | <@ToxicFrog> | However, anonymous functions are permitted to contain arbitrary code, and indeed all functions are anonymous; function foo(...) code end is just syntactic sugar for foo = function(...) code end |
| 21:05 | <@McMartin> | Aha. |
| 21:05 | | * McMartin would be inclined to special-case both of those |
| 21:05 | <@McMartin> | But that reminds me |
| 21:05 | <@McMartin> | You can add Street Fighter IV to the list of games with Lua AI~ |
| 21:05 | <@ToxicFrog> | Special-case in what way? |
| 21:05 | <@ToxicFrog> | Hah, cool. |
| 21:06 | <@ToxicFrog> | Also, vindication: my work five years ago porting Lua to SGOS for a project that got canceled a week after I left for the fall is now being ported to the new kernel for use in the HTTP proxy. |
| 21:06 | <@Derakon> | \o/ |
| 21:08 | <@Vornicus> | wootkernel |
| 21:13 | <@Derakon> | ...hunh, that actually worked. |
| 21:13 | <@Derakon> | I fatfingered saving a file and created a new file named '-'. |
| 21:13 | <@Derakon> | And just doing "rm -" removed it! |
| 21:16 | <@McMartin> | TF: Lua and Python handle anonymous functions in ways that are noticably different from the places I usually encoutner them (though under the hood Lua's is v. similar to Scheme's, I guess) |
| 21:21 | <@ToxicFrog> | Aah. |
| 22:47 | <@Derakon> | Iiiinteresting. |
| 22:47 | <@Derakon> | I just created a class that accepts, as an argument, a function to call at a certain point. |
| 22:47 | <@Derakon> | This function is bound as a member variable, self.action. |
| 22:48 | <@Derakon> | So it's called like "self.action()" |
| 22:48 | <@Derakon> | And Python is smart enough in this situation to not pass self along as a first argument to the function. |
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| 23:37 | < Rhamphoryncus> | aaaaaargh. Fired up Ekiga with my new webcam. Worked immediately after setting the preferences. Did echo test call.. disconnected.. and that immediately killed my bluetooth mouse and keyboard |
| 23:39 | < RichardBarrell> | Bummer. |
| 23:41 | < Rhamphoryncus> | Stole my dad's USB keyboard. Trying to prod it back to life |
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| --- Log closed Thu Jul 08 00:00:44 2010 |