| --- Log opened Thu Jun 17 00:00:12 2010 |
| --- Day changed Thu Jun 17 2010 |
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| 02:00 | < McMartin> | DATA FOR THE DATA GOD |
| 02:00 | < McMartin> | BUGS FOR THE BUG THRONE |
| 02:02 | < celticminstrel> | So, what should I think of this? A failed proposal? http://www.invlogic.com/irc/ctcp.html |
| 02:05 | < Vornicus> | Looks it. |
| 02:13 | < celticminstrel> | Though it seems some bits have been taken from it (XDCC), the formatting part seems to me to be significantly worse than the status quo. |
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| 02:43 | < celticminstrel> | I found ircii's implementation of CTCP SED (for sending encrypted messages). |
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| 04:46 | | * Vornicus should look into Felt. |
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| 04:49 | | * Vornicus should do so partly to request Features. |
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| 06:00 | | * Vornicus determines that it's been a while since TF has posted anything to github. |
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| 14:13 | < ToxicFrog> | Vornicus-Latens: I'd rather keep the gtk branch local for now |
| 14:13 | < ToxicFrog> | That said, pretty sure I posted stuff to xclua recently |
| 14:15 | < Vornicus-Latens> | I meant to the felt one. |
| 14:17 | < ToxicFrog> | Aah. |
| 14:20 | < ToxicFrog> | I've been making local commits on a topic branch, at some point soon I'll be publishing it. |
| 14:22 | < Vornicus-Latens> | Did you get the networking straightened out? |
| 14:23 | < ToxicFrog> | No. That's next. |
| 14:24 | < ToxicFrog> | Rewriting the UI is allowing me to clean up a bunch of other things, which will in turn make the networking rewrite go more smoothly. |
| 14:26 | < Vornicus-Latens> | aha |
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| 14:37 | | * ToxicFrog invents the Stubifier! |
| 14:38 | < gnolam> | The Stubifier? |
| 14:39 | < Vornicus-Latens> | Is that anything like the Stubulator, the Stubotron, or the Stubromulator? |
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| 14:42 | < gnolam> | Or a retrostubulator, capable of providing inverse reactive current for use in unilateral phase detractors as well as automatically synchronizing cardinal grammeters? |
| 14:42 | < ToxicFrog> | Possibly! |
| 14:42 | < ToxicFrog> | It's callable and indexable. |
| 14:42 | < ToxicFrog> | Calling it emits "STUB: <name> <arguments>" |
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| 14:42 | < ToxicFrog> | Indexing it caches and returns a new stubifier with an appropriate name. |
| 14:43 | < ToxicFrog> | Thus, if I go 'felt = stubifier "felt"', calls to (for example) any of felt.log, felt.config.save, felt.config.load, and felt.connect will produce appropriate log messages. |
| 14:46 | < Vornicus-Latens> | I like that. |
| 14:47 | < ToxicFrog> | (also, defining one of those functions suppresses automatic stub generation, so by defining felt.log, that works properly and the other stubs still work too) |
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| 15:49 | < ToxicFrog> | Hrm |
| 15:50 | < ToxicFrog> | <ToxicFrog> I get to implement that myself! Unless I can figure out how to exploit GTK+'s event handling on stuff inside a Cairo surface. |
| 15:50 | < ToxicFrog> | ^-- Looks like GtkLayout does that, with the caveat that then I need to implement panning and zooming myself. |
| 15:50 | < ToxicFrog> | Not sure it's worth it. |
| 15:51 | < Vornicus-Latens> | YOu are going to need some sort of transform - you need to be able to rotate the board for different players. |
| 15:57 | < ToxicFrog> | ...how do you figure? |
| 15:58 | < Derakon> | Why can't each player see the board from the same orientation? |
| 15:58 | < ToxicFrog> | I mean, it would be nice to have rotation support, but I don't consider it a necessary feature |
| 15:58 | < Derakon> | Sure, it's not "people grouped around a board", but most boards are set up to be right-side-up for only one player anyway. |
| 15:58 | < ToxicFrog> | Whereas zoom/pan are, because otherwise some games are unusable except at very high resolutions. |
| 15:59 | < ToxicFrog> | That said, I think I can get all of these essentially for free with cairo_{scale,rotate,translate,user_to_device,device_to_user} |
| 16:01 | < Vornicus-Latens> | Well, not the "board" so much as the... the... view. Trying to describe, it's not working. Mmf. Monopoly. I guess you don't need to rotate the board so much as be able to rearrange certain limited things according to who you are. |
| 16:02 | < ToxicFrog> | For that, you generally use seperate fields. |
| 16:02 | < ToxicFrog> | Eg, for monopoly, the board is one field, the decks are another, the properties are a third and each player has one for their stuff. |
| 16:03 | < ToxicFrog> | UI-wise, fields have a 1:1 mapping to windows, so you can arrange them however. |
| 16:03 | < Vornicus-Latens> | Speaking of which, how are you handling money, like in Monopoly or Power Grid or Puerto Rico or whatever. |
| 16:04 | < Derakon> | Hidden fields. |
| 16:04 | < Derakon> | Or not, as the game may be. |
| 16:05 | < ToxicFrog> | Vornicus-Latens: do you mean visibility-wise, or logistics-wise? |
| 16:06 | < Vornicus-Latens> | Both. Do I literally get 2 $500s, 2 $100s, 2 $50s, 6 $20s, 5 $10s, 5 $5s, and 5 $1s? Cuz that seems... kinda silly. |
| 16:07 | < ToxicFrog> | Up to the game module, but if I were writing a monopoly module, I'd use a spinner. |
| 16:07 | < ToxicFrog> | You get one bill with a number printed on it. Mousewheel + various modifiers adjusts it in steps of 1, 10, or 100 pounds, or you can right-click-set-value. |
| 16:08 | < Vornicus-Latens> | Hm, spinner. It'd be nice if I could go "Hey subtract this for me!" or "add this for me!" |
| 16:08 | < Vornicus-Latens> | but that's a coolif |
| 16:08 | < ToxicFrog> | (this is how the Descent module handles health, money, potions, etc) |
| 16:15 | < Vornicus-Latens> | on the other hand in a game where both $500 and $1 bills are passed around? Yeah, letting the computer do the math = good. |
| 16:16 | < Vornicus-Latens> | (and I say this as a math nerd who does this in his head on a regular basis without significant effort and gets paid for it.) |
| 16:18 | < Alek> | I'd say if you're playing monopoly on the computer, there is absolutely 0 reason to handle individual bills. XD |
| 16:23 | < Vornicus-Latens> | And while we're in the neighborhood: Monopoly, and, say, Settlers of Catan, force hard limits on global resource counts. Probably would need to write the module to handle that. |
| 16:25 | < ToxicFrog> | You initialize the money/resource pools to the amount that comes with the game, and set that as the maximum. |
| 16:26 | < ToxicFrog> | This does, of course, rely on the players not adding things to their hand without removing them from the pool. |
| 16:26 | < Orthia> | ToxicFrog: For your convinience, http://wiki.starforge.co.uk/wiki/Ergo |
| 16:26 | < ToxicFrog> | But if the module wants more stringent enforcement, that's up to the module. |
| 16:27 | < Orthia> | That's my best attempt at compiling the correct rules, as I understood them, into a readable format. |
| 16:28 | < Orthia> | Along with a few clafications that were never mentioned but were potential rules holes, etc. Partly why the Parenthesis card ended up so verbose, but I'm pretty sure that's how it was intended and I couldn't think how to shorten it~) |
| 16:29 | < ToxicFrog> | Orthia: thank you! It'll be a little while before it's back in a testable state, though. |
| 16:29 | < Orthia> | Not a problem at alL! |
| 16:30 | < Orthia> | My goal with doing it was twofold - one, I've had to explain it so often I figure I should collate the rules so one doesn't have to start "OK, take the rules as written and change them utterly as follows:", and two, so you can look it over and see if it has any interesting implications in how you plan your table. |
| 16:31 | < Orthia> | I would also add that as an online (or even custom home-made) thingy, each player gets a Letter Card, with their letter on it, and the edges containing TRUE, FALSE, LIMBO and possibly PARADOX |
| 16:31 | < Orthia> | (So you know who is in paradox. If /anyone/ is, you all lose~) |
| 16:32 | < Orthia> | Thus making it easier to track Who Is Who, and also whether they're currently screwed or not. :p |
| 16:33 | < Orthia> | But that's not an issue at all for your card table, given if you've coded to allow for rotations, and 'card sits in front of the player', and 'players start with a card in front of them', it's a peice of cake~ |
| 16:33 | < Orthia> | And really if you failed to do /that/ then I have no sympathy ¬¬ |
| 16:34 | | * Vornicus-Latens decides that it's actually bedtime now, blast it |
| 16:34 | < Orthia> | Vorn: Oh, oops |
| 16:34 | < Orthia> | I was going to request something but it is non-urgen |
| 16:34 | < Orthia> | t |
| 16:34 | < Vornicus-Latens> | Request away |
| 16:34 | < ToxicFrog> | Orthia: is six parens six pairs of parens, or three pairs? |
| 16:34 | < Orthia> | Do you remember the 'odds of rolling over 7 on Xd10' rule? |
| 16:34 | < Vornicus-Latens> | Yah |
| 16:35 | < Vornicus-Latens> | The one where tens count twice? |
| 16:35 | < Orthia> | I was hoping maybe you might be able to throw in a sheet for no-doubles-on-10s (Used for wounds), and rig it so it was all at 1 or 2 decimal places. |
| 16:35 | < Orthia> | At some point at your leisure. |
| 16:36 | < Orthia> | TF: Three pairs, though of course they get shuffled through the deck so you can easily get just the one of the bastards. |
| 16:36 | < Orthia> | Parenthesis are one of those cards where you need two of a kind to do /anything at all/... but the day you have it in your hand and you see the cards on the table, you can invoke Shit Eating Grin and make the whole bloody table hate your guts~ |
| 16:36 | < Vornicus-Latens> | =1-BINOMDIST(target - 1, dice, 0.4, TRUE) |
| 16:36 | < Vornicus-Latens> | Good night |
| 16:36 | < Orthia> | haha, awesome |
| 16:37 | < Orthia> | Nini Vorn! |
| 16:43 | < Orthia> | TF: It's worth noting the origional rulebook stated that it was 8x Parens, 6x NOTs, but they swapped the amounts present at the last minute |
| 16:43 | < Orthia> | I've never worked out why they'd do that, but eh |
| 16:43 | < Orthia> | (It could be simply that no-one ever really bothered with parens much, and NOTs are just too much fun; it's a simple enough thing to have come up~) |
| 17:21 | | * ToxicFrog flops in terror |
| 17:21 | < ToxicFrog> | I just got a call from my hopefully-soon-to-be-advisor asking for an explanation of my transcript @.@ |
| 17:22 | < Derakon> | Eep |
| 17:22 | < Orthia> | eep? |
| 17:22 | < Orthia> | An /explanation/? What needed explaining? |
| 17:23 | < ToxicFrog> | Orthia: well, the 0/WF in Telecommunications three years ago, and the fact that I needed to take Calc II and Algorithms three times each. |
| 17:24 | < Orthia> | ouch |
| 17:24 | < ToxicFrog> | The good news is, the point of the call was so that he had something to put on the letter of recommendation explaining why those entries are not reprensentative of my abilities~ |
| 17:24 | < Orthia> | oh, hah, cool~ |
| 17:27 | < ToxicFrog> | (the answers, incidentally, are respectively "the course drop system fucked up and I was inattentive to that fact", "math is my weak point, note the four year gap between the second and third tries" and "fuck Professor Swayne, in hell, forever") |
| 17:27 | < Orthia> | haha. |
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| 18:07 | < Alek> | AUGH |
| 18:07 | < Alek> | http://notalwaysright.com/so-slow-it-hertz/5827 |
| 18:09 | < celticminstrel> | XD |
| 18:23 | < PinkFreud> | but he's good at computer science! |
| 18:24 | < PinkFreud> | now, how do I turn the intarwebs-box on again? |
| 18:25 | < celticminstrel> | To be fair, computer science doesn't necessarily require you to know what a browser is. In fact, you could probably manage to use a browser without knowing that it is called a browser. |
| 18:32 | < PinkFreud> | CS may not require it, but any student of CS who hasn't figured out what a browser is is likely to be terrible at CS :P |
| 18:40 | < celticminstrel> | Well, you can know what something is without knowing the word for it. Especially if English is not your first language. |
| 18:45 | | * ToxicFrog ponders field operations |
| 18:45 | < ToxicFrog> | rename, set-vis, save, destroy - anything I'm missing? |
| 18:46 | < Rhamphoryncus> | hrm. The reason this CPU runs so cool might be that it's at 1.01 volts when it's (anecdotally) supposed to be around 1.3 >.> |
| 18:48 | < Rhamphoryncus> | 1.15 - 1.425 is the listed range on cpu-world. 0.85 - 1.425 is what wikipedia lists |
| 18:49 | < Rhamphoryncus> | either way time to double check the value in the BIOS :P |
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| 18:57 | < gnolam> | celticminstrel: when you've been given examples ("What you use to surf the Internet. Popular browsers are Internet Explorer and Firefox") you should damn well be able to figure it out, even if you come from Outer Bakalakastan. |
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| 18:58 | < Rhamphoryncus> | nope, reads 1.296 in the bios :( |
| 18:59 | < celticminstrel> | Hm, I suppose. |
| 18:59 | < Tarinaky> | gnolam: Dell? |
| 18:59 | < Tarinaky> | gnolam: Or... uhhh... Pentium? |
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| --- Log closed Fri Jun 18 00:00:38 2010 |