| --- Log opened Thu Apr 22 00:00:12 2010 |
| 00:19 | | Orthia [orthianz@Nightstar-9ebb4b73.xnet.co.nz] has joined #code |
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| 03:23 | < Orthia> | Am I actually here? :/ |
| 03:23 | <@McMartin> | Yes |
| 03:23 | <@Derakon> | No. |
| 03:23 | < Orthia> | woo! |
| 03:23 | < Orthia> | DERAKON |
| 03:23 | | * Orthia pounce. |
| 03:23 | <@Derakon> | Um? |
| 03:24 | < Orthia> | You is a mathhead |
| 03:24 | <@Derakon> | I'm a codemonkey, morelike. |
| 03:24 | <@Derakon> | Vorn's the mathsman. |
| 03:24 | < Orthia> | You did just fine on the previous tutorial. :) |
| 03:24 | < Orthia> | I am coding my program now. |
| 03:24 | <@Derakon> | And? |
| 03:25 | < Orthia> | I have gotten the boilerplate (I/O, commandline, etc) done, but the alograthm itself is giving me some trouble. |
| 03:25 | < Orthia> | Partly on the math required for the reliability of items in paralell when you're adding /one more/ item into paralell, partly on how I should be iterating through my stacks of components. |
| 03:26 | <@Derakon> | Just a warning: I'm kinda distracted right now, so I can't give you my full attention. |
| 03:26 | < Orthia> | No problem. |
| 03:27 | < Orthia> | You able to give enough attention for me to ask inconvinient questions, or should I leave it/hunt myself a cutest little elder god? |
| 03:27 | <@Derakon> | Well, I wouldn't rely on just me, were I you. |
| 03:27 | <@Derakon> | But go ahead. |
| 03:27 | < Orthia> | OK |
| 03:28 | <@Derakon> | So what's giving you trouble? |
| 03:29 | < Orthia> | OK, so we've got our 1A2B1C, right |
| 03:29 | < Orthia> | How does the reliability change when we add in /one more/ C? |
| 03:29 | <@Derakon> | Just recalculate it from 1A2B. |
| 03:35 | <@ToxicFrog> | As mentioned this morning, IIRC. |
| 03:39 | < Orthia> | TF: And while I appreciate it, it was approaching 2AM and my brain was failing to parse, no offense intended. |
| 03:40 | <@ToxicFrog> | When you modify a cluster, just recalc the reliability for that cluster, then for the whole system. |
| 03:40 | < Orthia> | aha, okay. |
| 03:40 | < Orthia> | So... lesse... |
| 03:42 | < Orthia> | reliability = 1- (1 - (reliability / device.reliability^count)*device.reliability^(count+1) |
| 03:46 | < Orthia> | ? |
| 03:50 | <@Derakon> | Whatever it was last time we talked about this, I forget. |
| 03:54 | < Orthia> | <ToxicFrog> If they're homogenous, the reliability for a cluster is just 1 - (1-R)^n |
| 04:00 | < Orthia> | I'm just not sure of my algebra to remove one such cluster, then add it back in with one more. |
| 04:01 | < Orthia> | Actually, what am I doing |
| 04:01 | < Orthia> | If I fiddle the classes around I might have more luck just leaving each one as-is... hnm... |
| 04:25 | <@ToxicFrog> | Um |
| 04:25 | <@ToxicFrog> | Why are you talking about removing and re-adding one? |
| 04:25 | <@ToxicFrog> | You seem to be fixated on calculating the change in reliability as you add and remove things without needing to re-calculate the reliability of anything |
| 04:26 | < Orthia> | hum. |
| 04:26 | < Orthia> | I suppose I could... hm |
| 04:26 | <@ToxicFrog> | And I'm not sure that this is desireable, and I'm quite sure it's not necessary; you have a list of clusters, you have a formula that calculates the total reliability. |
| 04:26 | <@ToxicFrog> | Change something? Re-apply that formula to the modified set of clusters. |
| 04:26 | < Orthia> | I'm not supposed to be recalculating from scratch each time, see |
| 04:26 | <@ToxicFrog> | Why not? |
| 04:26 | < Orthia> | Dynamic Programming - you use the stuff you calculated before as the basepoint for the stuff you're calculating next. |
| 04:27 | <@ToxicFrog> | Yes... |
| 04:27 | <@ToxicFrog> | So you cache the results of earlier calculations |
| 04:27 | <@ToxicFrog> | Say, something like |
| 04:27 | <@ToxicFrog> | double Cluster::getReliability() { |
| 04:27 | <@ToxicFrog> | if (this.reliability[this.nrof_components] != -1) return this.reliability[this.nrof_components]; |
| 04:28 | <@ToxicFrog> | this.reliability[this.nrof_components] = this.calculateReliabilityFromScratch(); |
| 04:28 | <@ToxicFrog> | return this.getReliability(); |
| 04:28 | <@ToxicFrog> | } |
| 04:29 | <@ToxicFrog> | Dynamic programming is not "determine a formula that lets you figure out change-in-result as a function of modifications"; it's "save the results of smaller solutions that larger solutions depend on" |
| 04:29 | <@ToxicFrog> | It is exactly like recalculating everything from scratch, except that before you do that you have a "have I done this before? If so, what was the answer?" check. |
| 04:31 | <@ToxicFrog> | There's really not a lot you can do to improve the probability calculation for a single cluster,in any case; it's a single math expression. |
| 04:32 | <@ToxicFrog> | And replacing the calculation for the entire system with a single expression that's a function of change is |
| 04:32 | <@ToxicFrog> | (a) a pain in the ass, and |
| 04:32 | <@ToxicFrog> | (b) not really a DP problem anymore |
| 04:33 | | Vornicus is now known as Vornicus-Latens |
| 04:36 | < Orthia> | hm |
| 04:36 | < Orthia> | I think I may have been coding this wrong anyway, hum. |
| 04:36 | < Orthia> | My stacks are based off previous stacks that didn't have /any/ of the new component they're adding on |
| 04:36 | < Orthia> | So really I should be just sticking in the cluster reliability at once. Hmm. |
| 04:44 | < Orthia> | hm, wate |
| 04:44 | < Orthia> | Reliability for a cluster is 1-(1-R)^n |
| 04:45 | < Orthia> | If N is 1, this makes it... hm... |
| 04:45 | < Orthia> | Reliability .8 becames 1-(1-.8), oh wate that's fine. |
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| 04:53 | | * Orthia blargs, wrestles for-loops, explodes. |
| 04:53 | < Orthia> | This shouldn't be too hard, what am I going wrong |
| 04:53 | < Orthia> | 1A 2A 3A... up until the price of each A exceeds the budget. Then, |
| 04:54 | < Orthia> | 1A1B 1A2B 1A3B up to pricecap, 2A1B 2A2B etc, 3A1B 3A2B etc, then 1A1B1C, 1A1B2C etc |
| 04:58 | < Orthia> | And so on and so forth until you hit Z or whatever |
| 04:59 | | celticminstrel [celticminstre@Nightstar-f8b608eb.cable.rogers.com] has left #code [] |
| 05:03 | | * Derakon eyes his chugging computer. "I suspect I may be better off recompiling ImageMagick with TIFF support than relying on Preview to rescale this image for me..." |
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| 05:26 | | * Derakon recompiles ImageMagick with TIFF support, tries to resize the image, gets this error: "convert(64027) malloc: *** mmap(size=2750595072) failed (error code=12)" |
| 05:26 | <@McMartin> | mmap |
| 05:26 | <@Derakon> | Well yeah, ImageMagick, if you're going to try to allocate 2.56GB right off the bat that's probably not going to work so great. |
| 05:29 | <@Derakon> | On the flipside, it seems to have properly resized the file anyway. Woot. |
| 05:33 | <@Derakon> | So I guess the next step is to figure out a good way to lay out the images using these 10% thumbnails. |
| 05:33 | <@Derakon> | Preferably some way that retains metadata so I can construct an image key. |
| 05:42 | < PinkFreud> | Derakon: something like exiftool will let you copy exif data, if it doesn't make it into your final thumbnail |
| 05:42 | <@Derakon> | PinkFreud: I meant more like which file in the collage goes where. |
| 05:42 | < PinkFreud> | ahh, heh |
| 05:42 | <@Derakon> | So what I'm doing now is writing a Perl script that will contain a mapping of image names to their positions in the final image. |
| 05:43 | < PinkFreud> | fun |
| 05:44 | < PinkFreud> | anyway, time for me to wander off to bed |
| 05:44 | <@Derakon> | Night. |
| 05:44 | < PinkFreud> | gnite |
| 05:51 | < Orthia> | aw, poop. java.util.ConcurrentModificationException |
| 05:51 | | * Orthia attempts ot find out what that even means. |
| 05:52 | <@Derakon> | At a guess, you have multithreaded code and two threads tried to modify an object at the same time. |
| 05:52 | <@Derakon> | But you really shouldn't have multithreaded code... |
| 05:52 | < Orthia> | I don't that I /know/ of... |
| 05:52 | < Orthia> | Could it be because I have a for(currentStack : oldStackSet) { if(foo) oldStackSet.remove(currentStack) } and it's complaining that I'm removing the item at the index it was trying to iterate through? >_> |
| 05:53 | <@Derakon> | Ahh, that could well be. |
| 05:53 | <@Derakon> | http://forums.sun.com/thread.jspa?threadID=5335803 |
| 05:53 | <@Derakon> | Though that thread deals with adding to the list, not removing. |
| 05:57 | < Orthia> | darnit. |
| 05:58 | < Orthia> | In that case, how do I iterate through a list, checking each item to see if it's still legal under the new conditions, then delete it if it isn't? |
| 06:00 | <@Derakon> | Preliminary results! http://derakon.dyndns.org/~chriswei/temp2/collage.png |
| 06:00 | <@Derakon> | Orthia: create a new list, transferring elements from the old list to it only when they are legal. |
| 06:00 | <@Derakon> | (That collage is, obviously, with stupid positioning choices) |
| 06:01 | < Orthia> | hm |
| 06:05 | | cpux is now known as shade_of_cpux |
| 06:06 | < Orthia> | blarg |
| 06:07 | < Orthia> | Derakon: That shows promise. |
| 06:07 | < Orthia> | Final purpose? |
| 06:09 | <@Derakon> | GIANT SPACE COLLAGE on my bedroom wall. |
| 06:09 | < Orthia> | awesome. |
| 06:10 | <@Derakon> | All of the images are public domain, so I'll be uploading the final once it's done. |
| 06:35 | | * Orthia scratches his head. Is now officially in deep doodoo. |
| 06:35 | | Derakon is now known as Derakon[AFK] |
| 06:35 | <@Derakon[AFK]> | Much luck! |
| 06:35 | < Orthia> | damn. |
| 06:36 | | * Orthia hrms. And the grade for his last assignment was dependant on his doing well on this one. |
| 06:36 | < Orthia> | Methinks I may need to be doing really well in the final exam. >_> |
| 06:37 | < Orthia> | http://pastebin.starforge.co.uk/260 - highlighted line is giving me a friendly Exception in thread "main" java.util.ConcurrentModificationException |
| 06:37 | < Orthia> | at java.util.AbstractList$Itr.checkForComodification(Unknown Source) |
| 06:37 | < Orthia> | at java.util.AbstractList$Itr.next(Unknown Source) |
| 06:37 | < Orthia> | at reliabilty.Main.main(Main.java:53) |
| 06:37 | < Orthia> | er, whoops |
| 07:04 | | You're now known as TheWatcher |
| 07:07 | < Orthia> | Okay, that workaround worked |
| 07:07 | < Orthia> | Now what is that /other/ bug doing, hmm? |
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| 09:02 | < Orthia> | So, you /are/ iterating, but you are not setting the items reliability. Hn. |
| 09:02 | < Orthia> | Nor are you looping, but we will address that in a moment. |
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| 09:52 | < Orthia> | reliability = reliability * (1-Math.pow(1-d.reliability(), n)); //(Recalculate reliability with the new cluster added) |
| 09:52 | | You're now known as TheWatcher |
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| 09:57 | < Orthia> | ha, got it. |
| 09:57 | < Orthia> | Now for the /next/ bug. >.< |
| 10:07 | <@TheWatcher> | yey, whackamole! |
| 10:30 | < Orthia> | hrn. Perplexing, this one. |
| 10:31 | | Attilla [Attilla@FBC920.174237.82ED54.C413EB] has quit [[NS] Quit: ] |
| 11:38 | < Orthia> | ... this next bit would be very easy if I knew how to do it. |
| 11:41 | <@TheWatcher> | Always the case, that. |
| 11:44 | < Orthia> | OK. |
| 11:44 | < Orthia> | I have a set of what are essentially tuples, denoting a systems reliability and cost. |
| 11:45 | < Orthia> | What I want to do is go through the set, and eliminate any for which I can get a better reliability at a lower cost. |
| 11:45 | < Orthia> | If you could sort an ArrayList, this'd be pretty easy - sort on reliability, eliminate on cost, f.ex. |
| 11:51 | | * Orthia pokes TheWatcher inquisitively as to whether or not he has any Cunning Insights to this. |
| 11:52 | | You're now known as TheWatcher[d00m] |
| 11:52 | <@TheWatcher[d00m]> | Sorry, must D00m |
| 11:52 | < Orthia> | No problem, was worth a shot :) |
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| --- Log closed Thu Apr 22 12:30:14 2010 |
| --- Log opened Thu Apr 22 12:30:27 2010 |
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| --- Log closed Thu Apr 22 14:31:15 2010 |
| --- Log opened Thu Apr 22 14:35:07 2010 |
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| 15:51 | <@Vornicus-Latens> | Orthia: I would actualy sort it by reliability. |
| 15:51 | <@Vornicus-Latens> | or, rather, I would actually use a thing that /already sorts/ |
| 16:06 | < Orthia> | yeah |
| 16:06 | < Orthia> | Someone suggested to use map |
| 16:06 | < Orthia> | If I was able to make sense of it, I would gladly replace my ArrayList with the thing. |
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| 16:27 | <@ToxicFrog> | Fuck yes! 42 cycles per packet! |
| 16:31 | < Orthia> | wut |
| 16:33 | <@ToxicFrog> | I'm designing a hardware packet classifier. |
| 16:34 | <@ToxicFrog> | So far it runs at 90MHz and averages 42 clocks to classify one packet, giving me a throughput of 2.1M packets/second. |
| 16:34 | <@ToxicFrog> | And that's without any sort of pipelining. |
| 16:47 | < Orthia> | that's pretty sweet for 90MHz. |
| 16:49 | <@Vornicus-Latens> | arg so many baddies |
| 16:53 | <@ToxicFrog> | Yeah. Custom hardware. |
| 16:54 | <@ToxicFrog> | That's with only 5K rules, though. |
| 16:54 | <@ToxicFrog> | It slows down as you add more. |
| 16:55 | <@ToxicFrog> | You can compensate for that by increasing the scan width (doubling the scan width results in scan time Ts' = Ts/2 +1), but that increases the amount of chip area needed to implement it. |
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| 16:57 | <@Vornicus-Latens> | (actually I was talking about Mass Effect, where I cannot actually tell what's going on but there's like ten baddies in the room, none of which die quickly.) |
| 16:58 | <@Vornicus-Latens> | but 42 cycles to classify a packet sounds pretty impressive. |
| 16:58 | <@ToxicFrog> | It is. |
| 16:58 | <@ToxicFrog> | Or rather, 2M packets/second is. |
| 16:59 | <@ToxicFrog> | The software version of this running on a 2.4GHz machine managed around 400K/second. |
| 17:00 | <@ToxicFrog> | (the actual classification time is 4-10 cycles + 1 cycle per 128 rules; with small rule sets it can push 10M pps under good conditions) |
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| 17:04 | < Orthia> | So hey, Vorn |
| 17:04 | < Orthia> | You about in... i dunno, six to nine hours or something? Map is hurting my brain. |
| 17:04 | < Orthia> | And I am finding freenodes ##java to be exceptionally hit-and-miss. |
| 17:06 | < Orthia> | A quarter of the time, you get a helpful reply. Another quarter of the time, you get nothing at all. The final half, you get some snide comment about why weren't you using InsertThirdPartyClassPackageHere, and that you should stop being so darn scared of third party stuff it's the future man don't just stick with the core libraries it's only a jarfile anyway you can even stick it in your directory if it's really a problem for portability. |
| 17:06 | | * jerith is here for a bit, if that may help. |
| 17:06 | < Orthia> | ¬¬ |
| 17:07 | < Orthia> | Which tends to defeat thalf the point, and provide you with a six tonne rhinocerous and training manual when what you really wanted was a poodle with a leash. |
| 17:08 | <@jerith> | By using Java, you're agreeing that you need a six ton (what's this silly Metric rubbage, anyway?) pachyderm with a training manual written in Inner Patagonian. |
| 17:09 | < Orthia> | Sure. But I want to use the one in my garage, not the one the salesman dropped off. :p |
| 17:09 | <@Vornicus-Latens> | I'm here for the next 4, then back 6 hours after that. |
| 17:10 | < Orthia> | It will have to be in the 6 hours then, my brain is fried. 4AM does that. :/ |
| 17:10 | <@Vornicus-Latens> | okay, slep wel |
| 17:10 | <@jerith> | Ah. |
| 17:11 | < Orthia> | I am moderately proud of the fact that I have got this thing looping more-or-less correctly however, and only got stuck on the housecleaning step, which is ~third-to-last. |
| 17:11 | <@jerith> | I'll be online later this evening, but you'll probably be asleep by then. |
| 17:12 | <@jerith> | Umm, "still", not "already". |
| 17:17 | | Vornicus-Latens is now known as Vornicus |
| 17:23 | < Orthia> | http://pastebin.starforge.co.uk/264 - the core code. The supporting classes: Device: http://pastebin.starforge.co.uk/265 Stack: http://pastebin.starforge.co.uk/266 |
| 17:24 | < Orthia> | My next goal is to be able to iterate through my currentStackSet, searching for tuples of (reliability, cost) where there is another with better reliability for same/lower cost. If so, delete the inferior one. |
| 17:24 | < Orthia> | Then it can take this cleaned up list, and iterate over it. |
| 17:24 | < Orthia> | Then I need only to have code that outputs what was used and how much it worked |
| 17:24 | < Orthia> | And then make sure that the maths are actually accurate. >_> |
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| 21:19 | < Alek> | is it just me, or is port 7000 closed now? |
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| 21:27 | <@Vornicus> | think it changed, one moment |
| 21:27 | <@Vornicus> | No, it didn't change. |
| 21:27 | <@Vornicus> | It should be open. |
| 21:36 | < Alek> | well, when I was connecting, first it tried port 7000, couldn't resolve, tried 6662, and went through immediately. |
| 21:50 | | Derakon [Derakon@Nightstar-1ffd02e6.ucsf.edu] has joined #code |
| 21:50 | | mode/#code [+o Derakon] by Reiver |
| 21:50 | <@Derakon> | Do svidanya |
| 21:50 | <@Derakon> | Wait, that means "goodbye". |
| 21:51 | <@Derakon> | Dobriy den, that's what I meant. |
| 21:53 | <@TheWatcher> | Dobry vecher, Dera. Kak dela? |
| 21:54 | <@Derakon> | Hm, Google Translate doesn't handle Russian very well... |
| 21:54 | <@Derakon> | I'm doing well, yourself? |
| 21:55 | < Alek> | da nichevo, vsyo normal'no. |
| 21:56 | < Alek> | "do svidanya" is "until we meet again". or "see you later". :P |
| 21:56 | | crem [moo@Nightstar-8ca3eea7.adsl.mgts.by] has quit [Ping timeout: 121 seconds] |
| 22:03 | <@Derakon> | I'd forgotten we had a native speaker here. |
| 22:05 | <@AnnoDomini> | Ya tozhe govoryu pa-russki, no ploha. |
| 22:08 | < Alek> | eto nichevo. |
| 22:08 | < Alek> | at least you didn't say "bloha" :P |
| 22:09 | | RichardBarrell [mycatverbs@Nightstar-3b2c2db2.bethere.co.uk] has left #code ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] |
| 22:50 | <@McMartin> | "The text substitution ['] is now synonymous with [apostrophe], and makes extended runs of Cockney dialogue easier to type ("put down that bleedin['] [']eavy Joanna", and so forth)." |
| 22:52 | < celticminstrel> | ...huh? |
| 22:52 | <@Derakon> | Text formatting for Inform 7, I'm guessing. |
| 22:52 | <@McMartin> | Yeah |
| 22:52 | <@McMartin> | I'm collecting the list of non-backcompatible changes to the language since my first major release in it to see how much work would be required to port it to the modern form of the language |
| 22:53 | <@McMartin> | On the one hand, it's more stable now because there hasn't been a release in a year |
| 22:53 | <@McMartin> | On the other hand, there's going to be a release in a week or so. |
| 22:53 | | AnnoDomini [annodomini@Nightstar-2e5d6563.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [[NS] Quit: And now, to the land of Nod.] |
| 22:57 | <@Derakon> | Hmm...so if it takes 150s to generate the collage when I'm using thumbnails that are 10% the size of the originals, does that mean it'll take 100x as long when I use the full-size versions? I wonder how ImageMagick scales... |
| 22:58 | <@Derakon> | ( http://derakon.dyndns.org/~chriswei/temp2/collage.png ) |
| 22:58 | <@McMartin> | Not very, if your last experience with it was any indication |
| 23:01 | | * Derakon determines that ImageMagick can, in fact, composite multiple images in a single pass, cuts his working time down from 150s to 8.5s~ |
| 23:02 | | Serah [Z@3A600C.A966FF.5BF32D.8E7ABA] has joined #code |
| 23:03 | | * McMartin notices that the tuneless humming he's been doing is actually a World of Goo theme. |
| 23:12 | <@TheWatcher> | <3 ImageMagick |
| 23:16 | <@Derakon> | It's very handy. |
| 23:16 | <@Derakon> | Incidentally, I estimate that this collage will look good at 6'x4'. |
| 23:16 | <@Derakon> | Which is very close to 300DPI. |
| 23:17 | <@Derakon> | (Actually slightly more than that) |
| 23:29 | | shade_of_cpux [Moo@Nightstar-20a84089.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #code |
| 23:29 | | shade_of_cpux is now known as cpux |
| 23:45 | | Orth [orthianz@Nightstar-8865e808.xnet.co.nz] has joined #code |
| 23:46 | | Orthia [orthianz@Nightstar-9ebb4b73.xnet.co.nz] has quit [Ping timeout: 121 seconds] |
| 23:55 | | * Derakon eyes the Wikipedia article on Fourier transforms, and marvels at how accurate and useless it is. |
| 23:59 | | You're now known as TheWatcher[T-2] |
| --- Log closed Fri Apr 23 00:00:55 2010 |