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code logs -> 2010 -> Tue, 30 Mar 2010< code.20100329.log - code.20100331.log >
--- Log opened Tue Mar 30 00:00:50 2010
00:01
<@McMartin>
I always prefered the Cyclic Cellular Automaton for grades-of-order-from-chaos.
00:01
<@McMartin>
I should do a modern implementation sometime.
00:28 You're now known as TheWatcher[T-2]
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00:37
<@Vornicus>
Callular automata: behavior in each fixed location is determined by behavior in nearby fixed locations.
00:38
<@Vornicus>
THis is in contrast to, say, mass-and-spring or other fluid simulation models.
00:39
<@McMartin>
The cyclic cellular automaton is "you have N states. If you are in state i, and at least one of your NSEW neighbors is in state (i+1) mod N at time t, then at time t+1, you will be in state (i+1) mod N. Otherwise you stay in state i.
00:40
<@McMartin>
Say you have 16 states and assign them the classic EGA 16 colors; you start with a screen full of multicolored chaos, which then has pulsing monocolor amoebas eat away at the chaos
00:40
<@McMartin>
Then suddenly spirals appear and devour the whole space
00:53
<@Vornicus>
Attilla: I always preferred the gun that shoots guns that shoots guns that shoots gliders.
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03:13<~Reiver> Actually, shocking as it was, that was not Reiver. This is.
03:14
<@Vornicus>
omgwtf
03:14<~Reiver> And no, I did not, other than to suspect it was the fault of the tree somehow.
03:14<~Reiver> Nonetheless, I was able to hand it in without problems - there'd been a bug in the handin system, so they'd given everyone a days grace.
03:15<~Reiver> So I wrapped up what I had, told them that it worked on Teh Small Stuff, and sent it in.
03:16
<@Vornicus>
okay.
03:22 * Vornicus pokes vaguely at it.
03:22
<@Vornicus>
We know that depth doesn't scare it.
03:26<~Reiver> Note: It might not have been the tree, but
03:26
<@Vornicus>
It's just stopping silently?
03:27<~Reiver> It was
03:27<~Reiver> Then we removed the (byte) cast from in the encoder, and it started stopping cryptically.
03:28<~Reiver> http://pastebin.starforge.co.uk/238
03:29
<@Vornicus>
Why are you byteifying...
03:29
<@Vornicus>
bytesRead shouldn't...
03:29
<@Vornicus>
Shouldn't be cast to byte, it maxes out at 1024
03:31
<@Vornicus>
(45, don't do that cast.)
03:31<~Reiver> Yeah, we spotted that and removed it.
03:32<~Reiver> Then the error showed up loudly.
03:32
<@Vornicus>
what error?
03:33<~Reiver> crap. Don't have it here.
03:34<~Reiver> I didn't pastie it? Weird.
03:35<~Reiver> gh. It was an error I'd never seen before
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03:39<~Reiver> GOTCHA
03:40<~Reiver> ERROR: JDWP Unable to get JNI 1.2 environment, jvm->GetEnv() return code = -2
03:40<~Reiver> JDWP exit error AGENT_ERROR_NO_JNI_ENV(183): [../../../src/share/back/util.c:820]
03:41
<@Vornicus>
what. the. fuck.
03:42
<@Vornicus>
I mean that has to be the most batshit error in the entire fucking universe.
03:42
<@Vornicus>
MCM, SAVE US
03:42<~Reiver> This is the point I wrapped it up and sent it in
03:42<~Reiver> You can't blame me, can you? :)
03:42
<@Vornicus>
Not really!
03:42
<@Vornicus>
You shouldn't be getting JNI errors in pure-java!
03:43<~Reiver> What /is/ JNI?
03:43
<@Vornicus>
(JNI is Java Native Interface, it's designed to let you use C code underneath Java)
03:44<~Reiver> wow. I musta done something awesome.
03:59
<@Vornicus>
Yeah, at that one I'd quail and give up and look to the professional
04:14
<@McMartin>
My first thought there is "corrupt JRE install", tbh.
04:15
<@Vornicus>
...point, it's like libc giving you a segfault on a valid pointer.
04:19 * cpux is reminded of the time he saw a reference to an array index of -1, and it worked. At least until the value entered into the comparison function exceeded 110,000,000 or so. :-P
04:20
<@Derakon>
Negative array indices are perfectly valid in Python, where they indicate that you should count from the end of the array backwards.
04:20
< cpux>
Except this was C++.
04:21<~Reiver> McM: Is there a reason it hadn't come up before?
04:22
<@McMartin>
Reiver: Did you change computers?
04:22
<@McMartin>
Alternately, removing a byte caste caused the JNI stuff to mistype your data.
04:22<~Reiver> McM: I'm on a different computer yes, but I lack the code to play with.
04:22<~Reiver> hum
04:23
<@Vornicus>
McM: the byte cast in this one was erroneous: int InputStream.read(byte[]), got cast to byte explicitly, placed in an int.
04:25
<@Vornicus>
and then used as a loop limit over the results in the byte[]
04:41
<@McMartin>
Aha
04:42
<@McMartin>
I suspect InputStream is calling out to a JNI function in the library
04:44
<@Vornicus>
As expected, it's a file.
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05:31
<@Kazriko>
*sigh* We turned IT over to an external company about a year ago and they took down my Nagios monitoring... I go to put a new SSL certificate on one of the servers and discover that the VM Host has been in degraded mode for some time and the remaining hard drive is dying.
05:38
< PinkFreud>
nice
05:43
<@Kazriko>
the sgd server is still running on it, but its hard drive image is like swiss cheese.
05:43
<@Kazriko>
apparently hit nothing vital, but I can't extract the image to run it on another server.
05:44
< PinkFreud>
er, actually...
05:44
<@Kazriko>
all the backups are from when they took over...
05:45
< PinkFreud>
http://www.forensicswiki.org/wiki/Dd_rescue
05:47
< PinkFreud>
also see http://www.forensicswiki.org/wiki/Ddrescue
05:48
< PinkFreud>
I've used the latter to recover data from failing laptop drives. the recovery log comes in handy, as it'll automatically retry sectors where it failed to read data.
05:51
< PinkFreud>
depending on circumstances, though, the former might be more useful to you in your current situation, as it can pipe to stdout.
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06:20
<@Kazriko>
I was able to dd noerror copy the file, but it wouldn't boot up in the other vm.
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14:48
< gnolam>
http://the.taoofmac.com/space/blog/2004/11/08
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15:31
< PinkFreud>
Some Linux guy in either Engineering or IT sets up a server that generates perfect blue packets with 3 lines of Perl code, but nobody notices him.
15:31
< PinkFreud>
... that'd be me
15:40 * Serah patpats PinkFreud.
15:40
< Serah>
We still love you at least.
15:42
< PinkFreud>
lol
15:43 * AnnoDomini rages at a certain hardware design philosophy.
15:44
<@ToxicFrog>
?
15:44
<@ToxicFrog>
PinkFreud: "blue packets"?
15:44
<@AnnoDomini>
Making everything arcanely fit together without obvious ways to safely take it apart.
15:48
<@AnnoDomini>
Excepting carving the thing out of a single piece of plastic curiously molded around a wire, I don't see how they made this.
15:49
< jerith>
15:48 < gnolam> http://the.taoofmac.com/space/blog/2004/11/08
15:49
< jerith>
ToxicFrog: ^^
15:50
< PinkFreud>
yeah, that url :)
15:50
< jerith>
AD: By magic.
15:51 * AnnoDomini sees the problem. The wire has been smashed in the place where it passes through the moving joint-thingy.
15:53
<@AnnoDomini>
Mumble. The wire is so tiny and fragile, I have no hope of fixing this in a semi-permanent fashion, especially if it's not just one of them in the insulation.
15:54
< jerith>
What's the device?
15:54
<@AnnoDomini>
Headphones.
15:54
< jerith>
Ah.
15:55
< jerith>
Yeah, those are generally a pain to fix.
15:55
<@AnnoDomini>
I'll drop by the electronics store tomorrow, see if they have a suitable replacement. I think any warranty I might have had has expired long ago. Had this set for a while now.
15:57 * AnnoDomini goes search for some old speakers in the meantime.
16:07 * AnnoDomini finds some.
16:07
<@AnnoDomini>
Warranty expired in '96. Power supply missing.
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16:12 * AnnoDomini removes the non-functioning parts of the headset, is left with a monoset or something.
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16:12
< Phox>
Ah, sweet, there IS a #code
16:14
< Phox>
If I ask a stupid question, am I gonna get a stupid answer? I'm running into issues with C, and my teacher's not much help.
16:14
< jerith>
Really!?
16:14 * jerith chuckles.
16:14
< jerith>
If you're wilfully ignorant and want other people to do your work, you're unlikely to be happy.
16:15
< jerith>
Otherwise we're here to help. :-)
16:15
< Phox>
I'm okay with that
16:15
< Phox>
Nah. I've just been poking around, trying to do a bit extra on this assignment. Anywhoo, is there any opposite escape sequence to /n, which would move you up a line?
16:15
< jerith>
(I'll be high-latency a bit. Meatspace stuff happening.)
16:16
< jerith>
There isn't, really.
16:16
< Phox>
Hmm. I was worried about that. What about selectively clearing a portion of an output window?
16:17
< jerith>
If you want to move the cursor around, you probably want to use something like ncurses or whatever.
16:17
< Phox>
I'll look into that, then.
16:17 Phox is now known as Phox|Research
16:18
<@AnnoDomini>
Phox|Research: The sequesce is \n, not /n, IIRC.
16:18
<@AnnoDomini>
*sequence
16:18
< jerith>
You /might/ be able to print a whole bunch of backspace characters ('\x08'), but that depends strongly on the width of the window.
16:18
<@AnnoDomini>
You might try endl, but I'm not sure that's in plain C.
16:19
< jerith>
ncurses is designed to do all sorts of screen manipulations in text mode.
16:19
< Phox|Research>
 \n, yes, sorry. The compiler doesn't seem to enjoy that. I've tried \r\b\r, trying to return to the first character, backspace to the previous line, and go to the first character of that
16:19
< Phox|Research>
No dice, though
16:21
< jerith>
What are you trying to achieve, though?
16:22
< jerith>
There might be A Better Way.
16:22
< Phox|Research>
Well, I'm interfacing with a data acquisition card, and I have one input on one line, and another on the second line.
16:22
< Phox|Research>
I could put them both on the same line, but I'm doing this to learn it
16:23
< Phox|Research>
It's just straight binary values, so I'm trying for an output like, "Digital Input P0.0: 0 \nDigital Input P0.1: 1"
16:23
< jerith>
Hmm.
16:23
< Phox|Research>
But it refreshes when I change the inputs
16:23
< jerith>
How are you updating it?
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16:25
< Phox|Research>
I've got it in an infinite loop, with a key input to escape. I've just been using \r to return to the beginning of the line, when I kept it all on one line
16:25
< jerith>
You can probably do something with ANSI escape codes. That's what ncurses and such use behind the scenens.
16:26
< jerith>
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ANSI_escape_code
16:26
< Phox|Research>
Doop.... That looks like it could
16:26
< Phox|Research>
* could work
16:27
< jerith>
You might need to do some magic to ensure your terminal can handle it. I'm not really sure what that would involve.
16:28 * jerith needs to disappear for a while now.
16:29
< jerith>
(fwiw, you're certainly the kind of person we like having in here.)
16:29
< Phox|Research>
As compared to trolls?
16:30
<@ToxicFrog>
As compared to people who expect us to write their homework for them.
16:30
< jerith>
As compared to "cn u hlp wif my homewerk?"
16:31
< jerith>
Or people who get annoyed when we try to help problem-solve rather than giving them the code to implement the horrible idea they've decided is good.
16:32
< jerith>
We don't get either of those in here much, though.
16:32
< jerith>
But it happens a *lot* on another network I frequent.
16:32 * jerith flees.
16:32
< Phox|Research>
Right, I've gotta duck out, too.
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16:48
<@Kazriko>
Heh. He could also research VT100 and/or Ansi coding to do that, but that is essentially what Ncurses handles for you automatically.
16:48
< jerith>
Kazriko: I mentioned that above. :-)
16:48
<@Kazriko>
Ah, I see. was scrolling down through it. :)
16:49 * jerith grins.
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17:48
<@McMartin>
Termcap is full of spiders; if he can possibly get away with ncurses outright he'll be much happier.
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18:25
< Alek>
fegh.
18:25
< Alek>
Win7 is the first winos I've used that actually does reboot me every 2 hours when unauthenticated.
18:32
<@Vornicus-Latens>
=IF($A2=C$1,"x",IF($A2<C$1,IFERROR(VLOOKUP(CONCATENATE($A2,":",C$1),Sheet2!$D$2: $E$225,2,FALSE),""),IFERROR(VLOOKUP(CONCATENATE(C$1,":",$A2),Sheet2!$D$2:$E$225, 2,FALSE),"")))
18:32
<@Vornicus-Latens>
Yeah okay, so I know my way around Excel a bit.
18:33 Vornicus-Latens is now known as Vornicus
18:36
<@ToxicFrog>
:gonk:
18:37
<@McMartin>
:psypop:
18:39
<@Vornicus>
(this is a thing that given pairs of cities with distances, will generate one of those "distance grids" you see in atlases.)
18:43
<@Vornicus>
(there's a couple other things that it needs though: the city pairs must be in alphabetical order, and you have to concatenate their names with a :)
18:52
<@ToxicFrog>
...hmmm
18:52
<@ToxicFrog>
bkelly@sun-unix-07$ echo $SHELL
18:52
<@ToxicFrog>
/bin/bash
18:52
<@ToxicFrog>
bkelly@sun-unix-07$ ^D
18:52
<@ToxicFrog>
Use "exit" to leave tcsh.
18:56
<@Vornicus>
uh....huh.
18:57
<@McMartin>
Fun with env vars, I imagine
18:57
<@ToxicFrog>
This causes me to wonder, first of all, if it's tcsh why is $SHELL /bin/bash?
18:58
<@ToxicFrog>
And secondly and more annoyingly, why doesn't tcsh accept ^D as a synonym for exit like every other well-behaved program?
18:59
<@McMartin>
^D isn't a synonym for exit
18:59
<@McMartin>
It's EOF.
18:59
<@McMartin>
My guess is that your login program puts you in a loop that defeats EOF, probably to block SIGHUP from dodgy connections.
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19:01
< Chi>
ugh.
19:02
< Chi>
at least it boots up fast.
19:02
< Chi>
I like that.
19:02
<@ToxicFrog>
My point is that the overwhelming majority of interactive text mode programs (that I've used) will accept EOF as a synonym for exit.
19:02
< Chi>
yep, Imma have to buy a copy. :(
19:02
<@ToxicFrog>
And this is not a login shell; it's an xterm.
19:03
<@ToxicFrog>
Chi: why?
19:03
< Chi>
because this one's unauthorized, and reboots every 2 hours. and I actually like 7.
19:03
< Chi>
vista is no way, and xp is a little too old for what I need.
19:04 * gnolam hugs MSDNAA.
19:04 * Chi ?? at gnolam
19:04
<@ToxicFrog>
The question I was trying to ask is "what do you need 7 for"
19:05
< gnolam>
Chi: MSDN Academic Alliance. I can get e.g. Windows 7 for free through it.
19:05
<@ToxicFrog>
Chi: MSDN Academic Something, gives students MS software at a discount to sane-people prices
19:05
<@ToxicFrog>
...or free, ok
19:05
< gnolam>
(And since I can, I have, naturally)
19:06 * ToxicFrog hasn't really looked at it, although I think the university has it set up; the CIS program is all linux-based and the software the engineering program needs isn't in MSDNAA anyways.
19:07
< Chi>
ok, that's nice, but I'm not enrolled this semester. :(
19:07
< Chi>
I did pick up VS05 and 08 off of MSDNAA when I was in C++. :P
19:07
< Chi>
for free, yet.
19:07 * Chi ponders.
19:07
<@McMartin>
TF: Non-shitty 64-bit support and speed is a pretty major one
19:07
<@McMartin>
I needed it for bizarre professional reasons
19:08
< Chi>
it's faster than xp, and more stable too. considering how much better xp is than vista, and even a little better than 98, that's quite good indeed.
19:08
<@McMartin>
Heh. Under the hood, XP is so much better than 98 there's no comparison
19:09
<@McMartin>
Every program in 98 shares half their memory - including crucial OS bits - with every other program
19:09
< Namegduf>
Yeah.
19:09
< Namegduf>
NT brought a lot of things that the OS "should have" had pretty early.
19:10
<@McMartin>
I like to think of XP as being VMS for the Desktop
19:10
< Namegduf>
And that's a step further than my knowledge goes. XD
19:10
< Namegduf>
In what kind of way?
19:11
<@McMartin>
Shares a lot of the same designers, the differences between Win32 and UNIX are remarkably similar to the ones between VMS and UNIX..
19:11
<@McMartin>
... "WNT" is in fact "VMS" rot1'd...
19:11
< Namegduf>
Ah.
19:11
< Namegduf>
Haha.
19:12
<@McMartin>
As for "why XP and not earlier versions of NT", XP was when driver support and user experience caught up to Win9x.
19:12
< Namegduf>
That's true, yeah.
19:12
<@ToxicFrog>
I would actually say 2k was.
19:12
<@ToxicFrog>
But most people didn't use that.
19:12
<@McMartin>
2k I'd use "for the Enterprise"
19:13
<@McMartin>
If you had full control over your hardware refresh and intended to roll out Windows, 2k was the obvious choice to shoot for for a long, long tie.
19:13
<@McMartin>
*time.
19:13
< gnolam>
The main difference between 2k and XP IME was that XP used a hideous theme by default. :)
19:13
<@McMartin>
XP had a somewhat broader security model that had a lot of holes in it that Vista fixed.
19:14
<@McMartin>
Ham-fistedly
19:14
<@McMartin>
By the time 7 came out developers had largely adapted, which is a big point in 7's favor~
19:14
<@McMartin>
(More seriously, I was responsible for a large chunk of "our product doesn't work on Vista" issues at work; with one exception everything I found was our fault or an incompatible API change where the Vista way was clearly the better on)
19:14
<@McMartin>
*one)
19:15 Serah [Z@26ECB6.A4B64C.298B52.D80DA0] has joined #code
19:15
< Namegduf>
Yeah.
19:15
<@McMartin>
The exception involved surprising behavior if you turned off UAC while still trying to have security ACLs.
19:15
<@McMartin>
... which you aren't really supposed to do.
19:15
< Namegduf>
Vista's security model is a step forward.
19:15
<@McMartin>
Vista UAC is still aggravating as Hell, though, and Win7's approach to it is significantly streamlined
19:16
<@McMartin>
I'd consider it now to be no more intrusive than OS X's or Ubuntu's GUI sudos.
19:16
< Namegduf>
I dislike most everything else about it (OSes should not increase in resource usage that fast, there's no reason for it)
19:16
<@McMartin>
They shipped after "make it right" but before "make it complete" and "make it fast"
19:16
<@McMartin>
Then they called it Win7 after that.
19:16
<@McMartin>
Ask Win7 what version it is and it'll tell you it's Win6.1
19:16 * Serah nibbles on Mr. Duf
19:17
< Namegduf>
Hey Serah.
19:17
< Namegduf>
Well, I think "Make it fast" was skipped because they anticipated things to grow in resources enough that it didn't matter.
19:17
< Serah>
I love you, marry me?
19:17
< Namegduf>
Which was sort of true, but only in some markets; notably, not for netbooks.
19:17
< Namegduf>
XD
19:17
< celticminstrel>
ToxicFrog: The reason those text-mode programs often exit on ^D is because they can also read from a file, rather than the screen, and ^D is end-of-file. On a hypothetical Windows version, they'd exit on ^Z instead (Python is a precedent of that, by the way).
19:18
<@McMartin>
Windows doesn't usually give you xterms though.
19:23
<@ToxicFrog>
celticminstrel: yes. And?
19:24
< celticminstrel>
And nothing?
19:53
<@Vornicus>
Why tcsh requires you tell it to stop in itself? I do not know.
20:01 Chi [omegaboot@Nightstar-7ff8f4eb.il.comcast.net] has quit [[NS] Quit: ]
20:04 Attilla [Attilla@FBC920.482E2D.4224C9.452BFB] has quit [Ping timeout: 121 seconds]
20:06 Alek [omegaboot@Nightstar-7ff8f4eb.il.comcast.net] has joined #code
20:42 Attilla [Attilla@FBC920.58502B.44B6AF.49BF3C] has joined #code
20:42 mode/#code [+o Attilla] by Reiver
20:45
<@Vornicus>
Hm. A* is good when you have one source and one destination
20:45
<@Vornicus>
Dijkstra is good when you have one source and many destinations.
20:45
<@Vornicus>
What's good when you have many sources and many destinations/
20:45
<@AnnoDomini>
Threading?
20:46
< gnolam>
Many sources and many destinations?`
20:46
< gnolam>
-`
20:47
<@Vornicus>
Yeah. Like, if you want to make a list of the distances to many cities, from just one particular city, you use dijkstra because it will, in finding the path to the furthest city, find all the other paths too.
20:47
<@ToxicFrog>
Parallel Dijkstra to populate a (source,dest) -> path map?
20:47
< Namegduf>
I also used Dijkstra when there might be only one destination, but I don't know where it is.
20:47
< Namegduf>
(And there might be none)
20:50
<@Vornicus>
TF: I'm wondering if there's something more efficient than just using dijkstra over and over.
21:03 * Vornicus fiddles with it, thinks he can do a /bit/ better than that.
21:07
<@Vornicus>
You need: 1. a 2-dimension dictionary source -> (dest -> distance), which can be easily indexed by source. 2. a priority queue of known distance -> (source, dest). You populate both at the beginning, then run through the priority queue; for each item in the pq you: look up dest as source in your dictionary, then for each dest in those, add (original source, new dest) -> distance to pq IF that value in your table is nonexistant or bigger
21:07
<@Vornicus>
than the one you just found.
21:11
<@Vornicus>
This improves your setup because you're able to use previous partial dijkstra-shaped runs to improve your current ones.
21:21 Rhamphoryncus [rhamph@Nightstar-8931f88f.abhsia.telus.net] has joined #code
21:42
<@Vornicus>
there, that wasn't that bad.
21:55 RichardBarrell [user@Nightstar-58acb782.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Connection closed]
21:56 RichardBarrell [user@Nightstar-58acb782.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #code
22:09 Chi [omegaboot@Nightstar-7ff8f4eb.il.comcast.net] has joined #code
22:09 Alek [omegaboot@Nightstar-7ff8f4eb.il.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 121 seconds]
22:34
<@Vornicus>
20 lines of code, not bad at all.
22:34 * Vornicus goes to work.
22:54 Chi [omegaboot@Nightstar-7ff8f4eb.il.comcast.net] has quit [[NS] Quit: ]
23:09 AnnoDomini [annodomini@Nightstar-088be1a7.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [[NS] Quit: I MUST SLEEP AND IRC TOO SLOW.]
23:11
< gnolam>
Rargh.
23:12 * gnolam pokes at Windows 7's networking.
23:17
< gnolam>
It's suddenly decided that the LAN is a Lie.
23:17
< gnolam>
And I can't convince it otherwise.
23:18 Orthia [orthianz@Nightstar-ca757cfd.xnet.co.nz] has joined #code
23:19
< celticminstrel>
Um, what?
23:19
<@McMartin>
Replace it with delicious, moist cake?
23:19
< gnolam>
As far as it's now concerned, I'm connected to two Internets.
23:20
< gnolam>
It stalwartly refuses any attempts to set the LAN connection to a private network.
23:26 gnolam [lenin@Nightstar-38637aa0.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [[NS] Quit: Reboot?]
23:41 gnolam [lenin@Nightstar-38637aa0.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #code
23:44 shade_of_cpux is now known as cpux
--- Log closed Wed Mar 31 00:00:51 2010
code logs -> 2010 -> Tue, 30 Mar 2010< code.20100329.log - code.20100331.log >
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