| --- Log opened Sun Mar 14 00:00:33 2010 |
| 00:00 | | AnnoDebian [jpkociak@Nightstar-e4084724.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [[NS] Quit: Lost terminal] |
| 00:01 | < PinkFreud> | guess he restarted X :) |
| 00:01 | | AnnoDebian [jpkociak@Nightstar-e4084724.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #code |
| 00:01 | <@McMartin> | And that he isn't using screen :) |
| 00:01 | < AnnoDebian> | It worked! |
| 00:01 | <@McMartin> | Sweet |
| 00:02 | < PinkFreud> | awesome |
| 00:03 | | You're now known as TheWatcher[T-2] |
| 00:03 | <@TheWatcher[T-2]> | \o/ |
| 00:04 | < AnnoDebian> | While I was gone, I expect you had a "shut down all programs you aren't using -> luser has quit IRC" moment at my expense. :p |
| 00:05 | | You're now known as TheWatcher[zZzZ] |
| 00:05 | <@McMartin> | 16:00 -!- AnnoDebian [jpkociak@Nightstar-e4084724.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [[NS] Quit: Lost terminal] |
| 00:05 | <@McMartin> | 16:01 < PinkFreud> guess he restarted X :) |
| 00:05 | <@McMartin> | 16:01 -!- AnnoDebian [jpkociak@Nightstar-e4084724.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined |
| 00:05 | <@McMartin> | #code |
| 00:05 | <@McMartin> | 16:01 <@McMartin> And that he isn't using screen :) |
| 00:06 | <@McMartin> | So no, no mockery |
| 00:06 | <@McMartin> | Merely SCIENCE |
| 00:06 | < PinkFreud> | lol |
| 00:06 | <@TheWatcher[zZzZ]> | SCIENCE!!! |
| 00:06 | | * AnnoDebian still tries, in vain, to make the fonts resemble Windows fonts. |
| 00:07 | | * PinkFreud ponders buying a bluetooth mini-pciE card |
| 00:08 | < PinkFreud> | new netbook doesn't come with bluetooth, but should have a spare slot for a WWAN card that's not installed. |
| 00:08 | < AnnoDebian> | Hm. Also - how do I make KAlarm run at startup? It's set to do it in the options, but somehow fails to load every time I restart. |
| 00:14 | < AnnoDebian> | Well, nevermind. I'll figure it out eventually. |
| 00:14 | | AnnoDebian [jpkociak@Nightstar-e4084724.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [[NS] Quit: I SLEEP.] |
| 00:19 | < PinkFreud> | guh, wandered afk |
| 00:55 | | Orthia [orthianz@Nightstar-f738f0f6.xnet.co.nz] has joined #code |
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| 03:26 | | Thaqui [Thaqui@27B34E.3C6209.CB28EF.920127] has quit [[NS] Quit: Leaving] |
| 03:28 | | * Orthia prods at his code. This should not be as hard as he thinks it is. |
| 03:33 | | Thaqui [Thaqui@27B34E.D54D49.F53FA1.6A113C] has joined #code |
| 03:55 | <@Vornicus> | Probably not, what precisely are you doing? |
| 04:00 | | gnolam [lenin@Nightstar-38637aa0.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [[NS] Quit: Z?] |
| 04:04 | | * Vornicus bonks Reiv both here and in other channels. FINISH YOUR THOUGHTS |
| 04:17 | < Orthia> | Sorry, had a phonecall |
| 04:17 | < Orthia> | http://pastebin.starforge.co.uk/153 |
| 04:18 | < Orthia> | What have I done wrong with the Seek, and is the Add written the way it should be? I'm still not certain. |
| 04:18 | | Kazriko [kaz@Nightstar-e09690fa.client.bresnan.net] has quit [[NS] Quit: Leaving] |
| 04:23 | | Kazriko [kaz@Nightstar-e09690fa.client.bresnan.net] has joined #code |
| 04:23 | | mode/#code [+o Kazriko] by Reiver |
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| 04:39 | <@Vornicus> | seek, when I wrote it, returned an actual, existing node, whether it matches or not; yours... needs to /return/ in those inner-layer ifs. |
| 04:40 | <@Vornicus> | Actually, rather a bit wrong with it, hang on. |
| 04:42 | <@Vornicus> | http://pastebin.starforge.co.uk/154 <--- you had too many conditions in there. |
| 04:44 | | * Vornicus fiddles with Add. |
| 04:49 | <@Vornicus> | Missing a condition here. |
| 04:52 | <@Vornicus> | New should actually be replaced with a constructor overload: val, parent, direction |
| 04:55 | <@Vornicus> | Meanwhile, Jesus God Get The Casing Right. methodsDoThis, membersAlsoDoThis, ClassesDoThis |
| 04:55 | <@McMartin> | classes.in.packages.do.This |
| 04:56 | <@Vornicus> | oh, and packages are all lowercase, yes. |
| 04:56 | <@Vornicus> | CONSTANTS_DO_THIS, and iirc locals_do_this |
| 04:56 | <@Vornicus> | but don't trust me on that last one. |
| 04:57 | <@McMartin> | locals_can_do_this, localsMightAlsoDoThis |
| 04:57 | <@Vornicus> | Oh. Never mind, you don't have a parent ref here, so no customized constructor. |
| 05:00 | <@Vornicus> | We'll instead do this entirely inside Add; we have five cases here: ==, < and left is null, < and left is not null, > and right is null, > and right is not null. |
| 05:02 | <@Vornicus> | We may wish to return any /created/ nodes, this way we see null as "nothing was created", and anything else as otherwise. |
| 05:04 | <@Vornicus> | New and Add are -- and it's not very often I recommend this -- best reduced to a single function. |
| 05:11 | <@Vornicus> | By doing this you only need to check val vs value once. |
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| 07:47 | | Attilla [Attilla@FBC920.480E8C.93028B.0DE757] has quit [[NS] Quit: ] |
| 07:55 | | Vornicus is now known as Vornicus-Latens |
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| 09:33 | | * Reiver stare, whut |
| 09:41 | | You're now known as TheWatcher |
| 09:49 | <@TheWatcher> | Reiver: ? |
| 09:54 | <~Reiver> What did Vorn do to my code >_> |
| 09:55 | < SmithKurosaki> | Working on a java tree sorter? |
| 09:55 | <~Reiver> A java tree at all. |
| 09:55 | <~Reiver> It doesn't sort, insomuch as it automagicalyl sorts in its own way. |
| 09:56 | < SmithKurosaki> | Ahh, I hated doing those in C |
| 09:56 | < SmithKurosaki> | In java it must be a bitch |
| 10:15 | <~Reiver> Yeah, and this doesn't even do what it fundamentally needs to, heh. |
| 10:16 | < SmithKurosaki> | Damn |
| 10:16 | < SmithKurosaki> | I would help, but I am still upset about java last semester |
| 10:26 | | * TheWatcher eyes the code |
| 10:27 | <@TheWatcher> | What's the problem with it, Reiv? Vorn's version looks fine |
| 10:27 | <~Reiver> TW: But but but I thought mine worked fine. ;_; |
| 10:27 | <@TheWatcher> | No, yours had soem serious logic errors |
| 10:27 | <~Reiver> Hrnmn. |
| 10:27 | <~Reiver> Could you help explain them through, so I see where I went wrong? |
| 10:28 | <@TheWatcher> | For example, consider what would happen if the first node in the tree had value = 10, and you called root.Seek(20). |
| 10:28 | <~Reiver> It worries me that I look at it and go "It looks okay to /me/...", when I'm usually fairly good at code logic. |
| 10:28 | <@TheWatcher> | when Seek is called, val is greater than value... so your code immediately returns null |
| 10:29 | <~Reiver> ...Oh. Yes, of course. |
| 10:29 | <~Reiver> WTF? That must have been a thinko. |
| 10:31 | <@TheWatcher> | Add is similarly subject to problems |
| 10:32 | <~Reiver> That'd make sense, given they were based off the same hunk of code |
| 10:32 | <~Reiver> However my concern is that I have no idea why I wrote the opening statement like that in the first place >_> |
| 10:32 | <~Reiver> Pretty sure that was a screwup. |
| 10:32 | <~Reiver> Ach, vell. |
| 10:38 | | Attilla [Attilla@FBC920.480E8C.93028B.0DE757] has joined #code |
| 10:38 | | mode/#code [+o Attilla] by Reiver |
| 10:41 | | AnnoDebian [jpkociak@Nightstar-e4084724.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #code |
| 10:45 | < AnnoDebian> | Is it possible to set up some programs to autostart with the GUI? |
| 10:45 | < AnnoDebian> | Preferrably without heavy scripting. |
| 10:45 | < Namegduf> | "Probably", but I don't know how in GNOME. |
| 10:45 | < SmithKurosaki> | Happy pi day :) |
| 10:46 | < Namegduf> | XFCE puts it in Settings->Session and Startup, but GNOME probably has it somewhere else under another name. |
| 10:46 | < SmithKurosaki> | Anno - Prefs - Session startup or similar |
| 10:49 | < AnnoDebian> | Found the form for it. What do I put in the Command field, if I want to launch KAlarm? |
| 10:51 | < AnnoDebian> | Nevermind, I think I found it. |
| 11:15 | < AnnoDebian> | I want different fonts. How do I install them? |
| 11:16 | < AnnoDebian> | (Bolded sans is horrible here. Small-size sans is also horrible.) |
| 11:45 | <@TheWatcher> | AD: there should, somewhere in your package tree, be a packed called 'corefonts' or 'msttforefonts'- that's microsoft's core truetype fonts. apt-get |
| 11:45 | <@TheWatcher> | *package |
| 11:46 | <@TheWatcher> | apt-get should be able to pick it up, I think. |
| 11:46 | | * TheWatcher is no debian expert by a long way though |
| 11:52 | < Tarinaky> | Sadly you're probably best off asking that sort of questions in a channel dedicated to Debian. |
| 11:52 | | RichardBarrell [mycatverbs@Nightstar-c141ffa5.bb.sky.com] has joined #code |
| 11:52 | < Tarinaky> | Since the assignment of certain things to certain packages can be arbitrary and it's impossible to guess unless you know that particular distro. |
| 11:54 | < Tarinaky> | I could tell you what they were in my distro but that's not going to be any help at all. |
| 11:55 | < Namegduf> | I like Debian to do its job and require absolutely minimal administration from me, so I've only looked up the tricky bits for things I've actually needed to do. |
| 11:56 | < Tarinaky> | There should be a User guide for your Distro explaining this stuff. There should also be a search function for your package manager. |
| 11:59 | | gnolam [lenin@Nightstar-38637aa0.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #code |
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| 12:17 | < AnnoDebian> | I'm trying to install RAR (is there a freeware archiver that handles RARs?) |
| 12:18 | < AnnoDebian> | But the install file is a tar.gz and dpkg doesn't want to accept it. |
| 12:18 | < jerith> | aptitude install unrar |
| 12:18 | < jerith> | dpkg only works with .debs, iirc. |
| 12:18 | < Namegduf> | ...unrar? |
| 12:18 | < Namegduf> | Oh, right. |
| 12:19 | < Namegduf> | (Sorry, read that as a solution to the tar.gz line, which confused me, I was getting ahead of myself) |
| 12:23 | < AnnoDebian> | http://pastie.org/868890 <- What do I do now? |
| 12:24 | < jerith> | "unrar x foo.rar" or something? |
| 12:26 | < jerith> | I don't think there's a free tool for creating RAR archives in Debian. |
| 12:26 | < jerith> | Which distro are you actually using? |
| 12:26 | < jerith> | Lenny? |
| 12:29 | < AnnoDebian> | Yes. |
| 12:30 | < AnnoDebian> | unrar: command not found |
| 12:30 | < Namegduf> | Did you install unrar? |
| 12:31 | < AnnoDebian> | I tried, but I got what I pasted in the pastie. |
| 12:32 | < Namegduf> | Hmm. |
| 12:32 | < jerith> | Oh, I misread the paste. |
| 12:32 | < Namegduf> | Looks... like it's already installed, but then it's not found? |
| 12:32 | < jerith> | jerith@manticore:~$ aptitude search unrar |
| 12:32 | < jerith> | p unrar-free - Unarchiver for .rar files |
| 12:32 | < jerith> | The package name is unrar-free, apparently. |
| 12:34 | < AnnoDebian> | Does unrar allow to view files within rar archives? Without having to extract everything. |
| 12:34 | < jerith> | I'm pretty sure it does. |
| 12:34 | < jerith> | My home network's in pieces at the moment, so I don't have a Debain box with it installed handy. |
| 12:34 | < jerith> | Try unrar --help or something. |
| 12:35 | < AnnoDebian> | Hmm. It's console only, yes? |
| 12:36 | < jerith> | Yes. |
| 12:36 | < AnnoDebian> | How do I install the real rar from the tar.gz, then? |
| 12:36 | < jerith> | (Unix in general is more powerful and flexible from the command line.) |
| 12:36 | < Namegduf> | You'd need to read rar's own instructions. |
| 12:37 | < jerith> | There's a rar package in the non-free repo. |
| 12:37 | < jerith> | http://packages.debian.org/lenny/rar |
| 12:37 | < Namegduf> | Ah, useful. |
| 12:39 | < AnnoDebian> | What was the path to the sources.list? |
| 12:40 | < Namegduf> | /etc/apt/sources.list |
| 12:40 | < jerith> | You want to drop a file in /etc/apt/sources.list.d rather than editing sources.list, probably. |
| 12:40 | < AnnoDebian> | Why? |
| 12:40 | < jerith> | Although this is the non-free distro repo, so putting it in sources.list makes sense. |
| 12:40 | < jerith> | I was thinking of PPAs and other third-party repos. |
| 12:41 | < AnnoDebian> | Let's see. The line I want to append is "deb http://packages.debian.org/lenny/rar lenny non-free"? |
| 12:43 | < Namegduf> | Look in sources.list |
| 12:43 | < Namegduf> | Copy that line, change "main" to "contrib non-free" |
| 12:43 | < Namegduf> | Assuming you want contrib as well, which can't hurt. |
| 12:44 | < Namegduf> | In fact, you may as well just add "contrib non-free" after main on the existing line. |
| 12:44 | < Namegduf> | If you're editing the file. |
| 12:44 | < jerith> | Just adding contrib and non-free to that line should also work. |
| 12:46 | < Tarinaky> | AnnoDebian: There's a 'rar' tool. |
| 12:46 | < Tarinaky> | AnnoDebian: I don't know what package it'd be in. |
| 12:47 | < jerith> | Tarinaky: I'm pretty sure it's in non-free and/or contrib. |
| 12:47 | < jerith> | "aptitude search rar" might turn up something useful. |
| 12:47 | < Tarinaky> | jerith: I'm not a Debian user. |
| 12:47 | < Tarinaky> | http://www.rarlab.com/download.htm << You can get it off there though. |
| 12:48 | < Namegduf> | Tarinaky: He already got that. |
| 12:48 | < Tarinaky> | Namegduf: I thought he only got unrar? |
| 12:48 | < jerith> | Installing stuff outside the package manager is gnereally a bad idea, though. |
| 12:48 | < jerith> | Tarinaky: He was failing to install it. |
| 12:48 | < Namegduf> | AnnoDebian: You need to apt-get update, then you can install "rar". |
| 12:49 | < Tarinaky> | jerith: DUnno what Debian's like but on Archlinux /usr/local is set aside for non-managed apps. |
| 12:49 | < AnnoDebian> | Something has locked something apt-get wants (E: Could not open lock file /var/lib/apt/lists/lock - open (13 Permission denied)) and I can't run it. |
| 12:49 | < jerith> | Tarinaky: Oh, it's possible to install non-managed apps. |
| 12:50 | < jerith> | It's just generally not a good idea unless there's no way to get a package of whatever it is. |
| 12:50 | < Tarinaky> | jerith: And you can always just -make- a package. |
| 12:50 | < jerith> | AnnoDebian: Everywhere you see "apt-get", use "aptitude" instead. |
| 12:50 | < Namegduf> | AnnoDebian: You're running aptitude or apt-get at the same time. |
| 12:50 | < jerith> | It's a newer, better tool. |
| 12:50 | < Namegduf> | You can only use one at once. |
| 12:50 | < Namegduf> | Er, one instance of either at once. |
| 12:51 | < Namegduf> | If you have aptitude open, hit "u" |
| 12:51 | < Namegduf> | For "update" |
| 12:52 | < AnnoDebian> | I have to wonder why hermetic, stand-alone application design isn't more common. |
| 12:53 | <~Reiver> Anno: "But think of the waste if something else wants that bit of stuff later!" |
| 12:53 | < AnnoDebian> | Fuck that. |
| 12:53 | < jerith> | AnnoDebian: Because it leads to massive bloat. |
| 12:53 | < jerith> | Do you really want to ship a 10mb statically-linked "hello world"? |
| 12:54 | < AnnoDebian> | The newer hello wordls are already that size. |
| 12:54 | < jerith> | Random commercial third-party apps really should be statically linked. |
| 12:55 | < Tarinaky> | Last time static linking kicked me in the arse was Dwarf Fortress. |
| 12:55 | < jerith> | But if you're writing something to be packaged for a distro, you can assume that there's a reasonable dependency-managing package system that takes care of all the crap for you. |
| 12:56 | < Tarinaky> | Because it's linked against an Ubuntu version of libtiff iirc that doesn't use the correct version number or something. |
| 12:56 | < jerith> | If you're not going to let people package your app, you need to ship it with everything it needs. |
| 12:57 | < jerith> | Even then, you can run into problems with libc and such. |
| 12:57 | < jerith> | Not to mention trying to interact with GUI systems. |
| 12:59 | | * Reiver has an idea to rig a script to input an ASCII map and turn it into something vaugely presentable via PostScript. And then see if we can rig it to work on a website, so you can send it the code and it returns a .jpg. |
| 12:59 | < jerith> | ASCII map? |
| 13:00 | < jerith> | Like relative positions of locations and such? |
| 13:01 | <~Reiver> .....T |
| 13:01 | <~Reiver> T...TB |
| 13:01 | <~Reiver> H.T... |
| 13:01 | <~Reiver> T = Tree, B = Bob, H = Harry, . = clearspace |
| 13:01 | <~Reiver> (Works better if you use a fixedwidth font.) |
| 13:01 | | * jerith nods. |
| 13:02 | < jerith> | Shouldn't be hard to parse that and turn it into a DOT file or something. |
| 13:02 | < jerith> | It'll have to be special-purpose, though. |
| 13:02 | <~Reiver> Oh, to be sure. |
| 13:03 | < jerith> | So it might be easier just to use an image library to composite tiles or something. |
| 13:04 | <~Reiver> That was my thought - it'd be tilebased. But the goal would be you stick the code in (Probably via text box on a page or something), and it then spits out an image link. Linking to that image draws you that picture. |
| 13:05 | <~Reiver> Thus saving me from doing endless image manip that is invaribly just moving a couple image tokens around, then having to save, resize, upload, linkgrab, and /then/ post the new image. >_> |
| 13:07 | < AnnoDebian> | Alright. I think I have rar installed. |
| 13:12 | < AnnoDebian> | Archive Manager now manages to open rar files, anyway. |
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| 13:29 | | mode/#code [+o AnnoDomini] by Reiver |
| 13:30 | | * AnnoDomini crackles with power. |
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| 13:32 | <@AnnoDomini> | It turns out that settings are directly transferrable from the Windows version of irssi. |
| 13:38 | <@AnnoDomini> | Does Debian have something like Total Commander? |
| 13:43 | <@AnnoDomini> | I'm also searching for a good WYSIWYG HTML editor. |
| 13:44 | < Namegduf> | That's a contradiction in terms. |
| 13:44 | < Namegduf> | No, I kid. XD |
| 13:45 | <@AnnoDomini> | On Windows, I use Kompozer... which inherits the bad table-pasting bug from Nvu. |
| 13:46 | | * jerith tries to generate HTML rather than editing it. ^.^ |
| 13:48 | <@AnnoDomini> | I use these things for making charsheets, which I then upload to my site. |
| 13:50 | < jerith> | I'd build a tool to do it, but that's just me. :-) |
| 13:51 | <@TheWatcher> | database, template engine, glue code = life is much easier |
| 13:53 | < Namegduf> | It's relatively simple if you don't hideously overcomplicate things. |
| 13:53 | | Orthia [orthianz@Nightstar-88fbb7e0.xnet.co.nz] has quit [Ping timeout: 121 seconds] |
| 13:54 | < Namegduf> | Which isn't too hard so long as you keep a "If I need it to boil the sea I will redesign it" as opposed to "there's a slim chance that if this is cool I'll want to boil the sea, so I'm going to make this kettle superpowered." |
| 13:54 | < Namegduf> | Kind of attitude. |
| 13:55 | <@AnnoDomini> | I don't see how I could make my task simpler here. |
| 13:55 | < Namegduf> | Use .txt |
| 13:55 | < Namegduf> | Works for my character sheets. |
| 13:55 | <@AnnoDomini> | I simply load the HTML file in the editor, change what I need, upload. |
| 13:56 | <@AnnoDomini> | Namegduf: Matter of taste. Tarinaky likes his charsheets in plaintext. |
| 13:56 | <@AnnoDomini> | I like mine with actual tables. |
| 13:56 | <@AnnoDomini> | So I don't have to redesign every time a bonus character pushes one row out of alignment. |
| 14:02 | <@AnnoDomini> | So. Anything? |
| 14:03 | < Namegduf> | While I was joking, my statement pretty much fits all previous experience. |
| 14:03 | < Namegduf> | If we remove "good" and substitute "might work", I know of, er, Quanta? |
| 14:04 | < Namegduf> | It seemed like a pretty crappy Dreamweaver clone, but it looked okay. |
| 14:04 | < Namegduf> | I never really used it, though. |
| 14:05 | < Namegduf> | Hmm, but it's KDE-based. |
| 14:06 | <@AnnoDomini> | What I need is something that permits building tables with minimum hassle. No fancy tricks, just plain old HTML. |
| 14:07 | < Namegduf> | Kompozer supposedly has Linux support. |
| 14:07 | < Namegduf> | To match your Windows setup. |
| 14:07 | <@AnnoDomini> | Yay! |
| 14:07 | < gnolam> | Export tables from OpenOffice Calc? |
| 14:07 | < Namegduf> | I don't have any other suggestions. |
| 14:10 | <@AnnoDomini> | Okay. Thanks. |
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| 14:21 | < Tarinaky> | Most Office suits have the ability to save as HTML. |
| 14:21 | < Tarinaky> | The HTML tends to be pretty funky but it should work for you. |
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| 18:26 | <@AnnoDomini> | Tarinaky: And allow anyone who views my source to see that I use Office to produce HTML pages? |
| 18:27 | <@AnnoDomini> | Talk about shame. |
| 18:35 | | AnnoDomini [annodomini@Nightstar-4c0b6d97.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [[NS] Quit: Lost terminal] |
| 18:37 | | AnnoDomini [annodomini@Nightstar-4c0b6d97.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #code |
| 18:37 | | mode/#code [+o AnnoDomini] by Reiver |
| 18:38 | <@AnnoDomini> | It appears I sometimes randomly lose terminals. |
| 18:38 | <@AnnoDomini> | What could be the cause? |
| 18:39 | | Serah [Z@26ECB6.A4B64C.298B52.D80DA0] has joined #code |
| 18:39 | <@McMartin> | You aren't accidentally fat-fingering Ctrl-W or anything, are you? |
| 18:40 | < Tarinaky> | AnnoDomini: If you aren't careful @ will keep killing them, taking their stuff and occasionally eat their corpses. |
| 18:40 | < Tarinaky> | AnnoDomini: It's actually pretty horrific if you ever see it. |
| 18:42 | <@AnnoDomini> | McMartin: I'm pretty sure I'm not doing anything of the sort. |
| 18:42 | <@AnnoDomini> | It tends to happen, I've noticed, when I have many windows open. |
| 18:42 | <@AnnoDomini> | Suddenly, my terminals vanish. |
| 18:43 | < Namegduf> | My theory is that GNOME hates the CLI |
| 18:43 | <@McMartin> | I don't buy it; I have them run in Ubuntu for days |
| 18:43 | <@ToxicFrog> | Weeks. |
| 18:43 | < Namegduf> | Centures. |
| 18:43 | < Namegduf> | *Centuries |
| 18:49 | < gnolam> | Centaurs. |
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| 20:26 | <@AnnoDomini> | So, what are the advantages of using screen for irssi? |
| 20:27 | < Namegduf> | Depends. |
| 20:27 | < Namegduf> | Screen can: |
| 20:27 | < Namegduf> | - Keep the client open when your terminal has to die, |
| 20:28 | < Namegduf> | - Keep a client open and usable from multiple locations, connecting and disconnecting at will, via SSH. |
| 20:28 | < Namegduf> | And, hmm, not much else. |
| 20:28 | < Namegduf> | It has keyboard copy and paste, though, heh. |
| 20:28 | < Namegduf> | Using it locally, my big gain has been "I can update graphics drivers without breaking my IRC client's 20 day uptime." |
| 20:29 | < Namegduf> | So "not much" |
| 20:29 | <@AnnoDomini> | I seep. How do I re-establish connection with the screen when terminal dies? |
| 20:29 | < Namegduf> | Open a new one, run "screen -x" |
| 20:30 | < celticminstrel> | You seep? That sounds... um... ominous? |
| 20:30 | <@ToxicFrog> | Note that -x will connect only if it's not already attached to a terminal |
| 20:30 | <@AnnoDomini> | Aha. |
| 20:30 | <@ToxicFrog> | If you want to grab it even if it's already attached elsewhere, try -dR |
| 20:31 | <@AnnoDomini> | celticminstrel: And messy. |
| 20:31 | < celticminstrel> | Yeah. |
| 20:31 | <@ToxicFrog> | Also, if you want the screen-like ability to run a program, detach from it without killing it, and reattach to it later (or from elsewhere), but for graphical apps rather than text ones, NX does this. |
| 20:32 | < Namegduf> | ToxicFrog: Actually, -x will work fine. |
| 20:32 | < Namegduf> | ToxicFrog: It'll just not kill the other terminal, allowing for multiple attaches at once. |
| 20:32 | <@ToxicFrog> | Aah |
| 20:32 | <@AnnoDomini> | Okay. How do I make a 'shortcut' or 'batch file' that launches a terminal, then launches screen in it, then launches irssi in that? |
| 20:33 | < Namegduf> | Perfect command for this is... |
| 20:33 | < Namegduf> | screen -xRR irssi |
| 20:33 | < Namegduf> | Attaches if the screen exists, otherwise creates a new screen and starts irssi |
| 20:33 | <@AnnoDomini> | Cool. |
| 20:33 | <@AnnoDomini> | Now how do I make it clickable? |
| 20:34 | < celticminstrel> | You know about shell scripts, right? |
| 20:34 | < Namegduf> | You can create a file containing "#!/bin/sh" on the first line and that on the second, then chmod u+x <that file> |
| 20:34 | <@ToxicFrog> | "clickable"? |
| 20:34 | < Namegduf> | To make a shell script. |
| 20:34 | < celticminstrel> | Yes. |
| 20:34 | <@ToxicFrog> | You don't even need that |
| 20:34 | < Namegduf> | Said file may be clickable, but you probably want to mae a shortcut. |
| 20:34 | <@ToxicFrog> | Right-click on the desktop, create launcher, tick 'run in terminal', enter 'screen -xRR irssi' as the command |
| 20:34 | <@AnnoDomini> | celticminstrel: Not really. I'm new to Linux. |
| 20:34 | < Namegduf> | Ah, that's awesome. |
| 20:34 | < Namegduf> | Go with what ToxicFrog said. |
| 20:35 | < celticminstrel> | ...pity Finder doesn't have something like that. |
| 20:35 | < Namegduf> | I have a fairly fancy setup whereby my login password decrypts my private key |
| 20:35 | < celticminstrel> | Then again, double-clicking a shell script does load it in Terminal. |
| 20:36 | < Namegduf> | And I have an alias myscreen='ssh -Atp <port> <user>@<server> "bash -ic \"screen -xRR\""' |
| 20:36 | | AnnoDomini [annodomini@Nightstar-4c0b6d97.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [[NS] Quit: Back soon.] |
| 20:36 | < Namegduf> | My netbook version is a bit better, it runs through autossh. |
| 20:36 | < Namegduf> | Otherwise the same. |
| 20:38 | < celticminstrel> | AnnoDomini: Shell scripts are basically what you called a "batch file". |
| 20:38 | < celticminstrel> | Oh. |
| 20:38 | < celticminstrel> | He left. |
| 20:38 | < Namegduf> | Yeah. |
| 20:38 | < celticminstrel> | Well then. |
| 20:39 | | AnnoDomini [annodomini@Nightstar-4c0b6d97.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #code |
| 20:39 | | mode/#code [+o AnnoDomini] by Reiver |
| 20:39 | <@AnnoDomini> | That doesn't quite work. |
| 20:39 | <@AnnoDomini> | screen boots fine, but irssi isn't executed. |
| 20:39 | < Namegduf> | Weird. |
| 20:42 | < Namegduf> | Man page suggests it should work... |
| 20:42 | < Namegduf> | "If no detached session exists, starts a new session using the specified options, just as if -R had not been specified." |
| 20:42 | <@ToxicFrog> | screen -xR -- irssi |
| 20:42 | < celticminstrel> | AnnoDomini: Shell scripts are basically what you called a "batch file". |
| 20:43 | < jerith> | I used "screen -RAd" |
| 20:43 | <@ToxicFrog> | AnnoDomini: use "-- irssi" rather than just "irssi" |
| 20:43 | < jerith> | lantea:~ jerith$ cat bin/irc |
| 20:43 | < jerith> | # Set xterm title: |
| 20:43 | < jerith> | echo -ne "\033]0;IRC (chthon)\007" |
| 20:43 | < jerith> | ssh -C jerith@chthon.slipgate.za.net -t screen -URAd |
| 20:44 | < celticminstrel> | Um. |
| 20:44 | < Namegduf> | -A? |
| 20:44 | < Namegduf> | For that matter, -U, too? |
| 20:44 | <@ToxicFrog> | -A Adapt the sizes of all windows to the size of the current terminal. By default, screen tries to restore its old window sizes when attaching to resizable terminals |
| 20:44 | <@ToxicFrog> | (those with "WS" in its description, e.g. suncmd or some xterm). |
| 20:44 | < Namegduf> | Ah. |
| 20:44 | <@ToxicFrog> | -U Run screen in UTF-8 mode. This option tells screen that your terminal sends and understands UTF-8 encoded characters. It also sets the default encoding for new |
| 20:44 | <@ToxicFrog> | windows to `utf8'. |
| 20:44 | < jerith> | -U is utf8 stuff. |
| 20:44 | <@ToxicFrog> | Try 'man screen' to get the manual |
| 20:44 | < Namegduf> | Looking at it. |
| 20:45 | < Namegduf> | There we go. |
| 20:45 | <@ToxicFrog> | Anyways. Regardless of what options you settle on, try screen -options -- irssi |
| 20:45 | < Namegduf> | I was somehow missing that when sorting alphabetically, they decided not to put all the uppercase letters after the lowercase ones. |
| 20:46 | <@ToxicFrog> | As far as more complicated stuff goes, shell scripts fill the place that batch files do on windows (and more). |
| 20:46 | < Namegduf> | Yeah. |
| 20:46 | <@ToxicFrog> | As Namegduf said: |
| 20:46 | <@ToxicFrog> | - start the file with #!/bin/bash |
| 20:46 | <@ToxicFrog> | - fill the rest of the file with the commands/code you want |
| 20:46 | <@AnnoDomini> | -UMad |
| 20:46 | < Namegduf> | You do the same for Perl or Python. |
| 20:46 | <@ToxicFrog> | - make it executable with 'chmod +x file' in the terminal, or right-click-properties "allow executing this file as a program" in the gui |
| 20:46 | < Namegduf> | #!/path/to/interpreter |
| 20:47 | < Namegduf> | Rest of file is code. |
| 20:47 | <@ToxicFrog> | If you want a script in something other than bash, you can- yes, what Namegduf said. |
| 20:47 | <@AnnoDomini> | '-- irssi' works. |
| 20:48 | <@AnnoDomini> | I just shut down the terminal, and instantly reconnected, with no loss of irssi! |
| 20:49 | <@ToxicFrog> | More generally: '--' in most programs is "everything after this are normal arguments and not -options, even if they look like option flags" |
| 20:49 | <@ToxicFrog> | So for example: |
| 20:49 | <@ToxicFrog> | rm -f foo # force-remove the file foo |
| 20:49 | <@ToxicFrog> | rm -- -f foo # remove the files '-f' and 'foo' |
| 21:02 | <@AnnoDomini> | They should really ship browsers with pre-configured anti-ad measures. |
| 21:07 | < Namegduf> | That'd suck. |
| 21:07 | < Namegduf> | Flash filtering, yeah. Generic JS filtering, yeah. But anti-ad out of the box, man, why not just pirate all your software? |
| 21:08 | < Namegduf> | I mean, I realise that I might be in the minority on this, and I don't believe people who use anti-ad stuff are "stealing" or committing any crime, but I do think that deliberately distributing stuff to collapse ad revenue |
| 21:08 | < Namegduf> | Would be significantly harmful. |
| 21:09 | | Serah [Z@26ECB6.A4B64C.298B52.D80DA0] has quit [Ping timeout: 121 seconds] |
| 21:10 | <@AnnoDomini> | I see. |
| 21:12 | < celticminstrel> | Does Chrome have session restore? |
| 21:12 | < Namegduf> | Unless it crashed, no. |
| 21:13 | < celticminstrel> | So, if I force-quit it, it'll restore my tabs? |
| 21:13 | < Namegduf> | I'm not 100% on when it does/doesn't. |
| 21:16 | < celticminstrel> | ...it doesn't support MathML, RSS, TIFF, or SVG... |
| 21:21 | <@ToxicFrog> | Chrome is, AFAICT, a tech demo and not an actual browser. |
| 21:22 | < Namegduf> | That's just kinda rude. |
| 21:22 | < Namegduf> | It doesn't support RSS because it's a web browser. |
| 21:22 | | * AnnoDomini by default supports software that Does One Thing. |
| 21:22 | | * Namegduf does, too. |
| 21:22 | <@ToxicFrog> | Likewise. |
| 21:23 | <@ToxicFrog> | However, I also consider features like session saving and SVG support to be vital in a browser. |
| 21:23 | < celticminstrel> | Safari supports RSS. |
| 21:23 | <@AnnoDomini> | I rarely need session saving. |
| 21:23 | < Namegduf> | Considering session saving vitr arbitrary. |
| 21:23 | < Namegduf> | *is rather |
| 21:23 | < Namegduf> | Well, rather, it's rather centred on your usage. |
| 21:23 | < Namegduf> | I've never used session saving, ever. |
| 21:24 | <@ToxicFrog> | And in chrome, as far as I can tell, making it a usable browser has always taken a back seat to "check out how cool this seperate-processes thing is" |
| 21:24 | < Namegduf> | ...what? |
| 21:24 | < Namegduf> | Have you ever used Chrome or paid the slightest attention to its development? |
| 21:25 | < Namegduf> | I mean... sorry, but I have no idea where that could come from aside "minimalistic UI" -> "toy" |
| 21:25 | <@ToxicFrog> | Well, ok |
| 21:25 | <@ToxicFrog> | To clarify |
| 21:25 | <@ToxicFrog> | To me, a browser is not usable if it doesn't scale well to large (30+) numbers of tabs and can't remember what I was doing. |
| 21:25 | | * Namegduf uses Chrome like that often. |
| 21:26 | < Namegduf> | Admittably, not right now, things are in pain right now because it turns out giving a Windows VM 1GB of my 2GB of RAM while running everything as normal was a really bad idea. |
| 21:27 | < Namegduf> | Okay. |
| 21:27 | <@ToxicFrog> | Chrome, at least last time I used it (which was admittedly in late 2009), failed miserably on both counts, as well as having no SVG support, and not much in the way of UI customization. |
| 21:27 | < Namegduf> | FIrst thing I could find on SVG support |
| 21:27 | <@ToxicFrog> | I don't remember if it supports userjs or not, don't think I ever got around to testing that. |
| 21:28 | < Namegduf> | Was a thread on svg-developers |
| 21:28 | < celticminstrel> | To me, RSS is a web browser function, because it's a way of viewing web pages. Or... |
| 21:28 | < Namegduf> | Except, it's not a way of viewing webpages. It's a way of automatically polling them for updates. |
| 21:28 | <@ToxicFrog> | What? No it's not. |
| 21:28 | < celticminstrel> | Yeah, what Namegduf said. |
| 21:29 | < Namegduf> | Which IMO requires a significant departure from the basic workflow of a browser to perform neatly; otherwise said, back when I used it heavily I used my mail client. |
| 21:29 | < celticminstrel> | My point being that one uses it as a sort of hub to view web pages... that still doesn't quite sound right. |
| 21:29 | < celticminstrel> | I do believe Thunderbird supports it, though, so I could make that switch. |
| 21:29 | < Namegduf> | It does. |
| 21:29 | <@ToxicFrog> | ...that's not how I use it; I route it to my mail reader so that, in effect, I get emailed when important updates are made |
| 21:30 | <@ToxicFrog> | If I already have my browser open I don't need RSS because I can see perfectly well whether the page has or has not updated by looking at it. |
| 21:30 | < Namegduf> | svg-developer thread says "I am using it now. It does support SVG but seems to be an earlier version of WebKit. There is no animation support." |
| 21:30 | < Namegduf> | That was from 2008. |
| 21:30 | < Namegduf> | There's someone posting a "It doesn't work" question somewhere, with replies suggesting an embedding problem |
| 21:30 | < Namegduf> | Hang on, I can actually test this right now. |
| 21:31 | < Namegduf> | If I actually do have that SVG somewhere around here. |
| 21:31 | | * ToxicFrog shrugs. If I go to an SVG-heavy site, and it works in Opera, and doesn't work in Chrome, this is functionally equivalent, to me, to chrome not supporting SVG [properly]. |
| 21:31 | < Namegduf> | Bleh, I'll google one. |
| 21:32 | | * Namegduf shrugs. If I go to a JS heavy site, and it works in IE, and doesn't work in Firefox, this is functionally equivalent, to me, to Firefox not supporting JS [properly]. |
| 21:32 | < Namegduf> | That argument doesn't really work. |
| 21:32 | < Namegduf> | Not given that SVG is kind of newish. |
| 21:32 | < Namegduf> | And not given that it's rather hard to trust web developers to test across browsers. |
| 21:33 | < Namegduf> | It's also possible if you were on an early Linux version that it got broke. |
| 21:33 | <@ToxicFrog> | Well, except that SVG is a single format with working reference implementations whereas JS is a massive clusterfuck of deliberately incompatible interpreters. |
| 21:34 | <@ToxicFrog> | And yes, I was using the Linux version. |
| 21:34 | < Namegduf> | SVG works. |
| 21:35 | < Namegduf> | I had to go to a damn Wikipedia article to find a test image, but it works. |
| 21:35 | < celticminstrel> | In Chrome? |
| 21:35 | < Namegduf> | Yes. |
| 21:36 | < Namegduf> | It looks like there's multiple ways of inlining them. |
| 21:36 | < celticminstrel> | And it doesn't support MathML or TIFF for some reason, though that doesn't matter so much. |
| 21:37 | < Namegduf> | That's apparantly really not supported, but it (like the details of SVG support) is a WebKit issue |
| 21:37 | < celticminstrel> | Both of them? |
| 21:37 | < Namegduf> | MathML. |
| 21:38 | < Namegduf> | Going to check on TIFF. |
| 21:38 | < Namegduf> | These things do vaguely surprise me, SVG particularly. |
| 21:38 | < Namegduf> | Because I thought WebKit was fairly good for that. |
| 21:38 | < celticminstrel> | I'm actually going by Wikipedia's comparison article here, so it could be out-of-date in some cases or even just wrong. |
| 21:40 | < Namegduf> | The same table says Firefox doesn't and has "disable" in IE's column, which could mean anything. |
| 21:41 | < Namegduf> | There's a note at the bottom saying plugins are generally used. |
| 21:41 | < Namegduf> | For TIFF. |
| 21:41 | < Namegduf> | I don't know much aside that. |
| 21:43 | <@ToxicFrog> | It's incorrect about Opera not supporting TIFF, too |
| 21:48 | < Namegduf> | I'll admit I'm rather a fan of the minimalistic browser, mostly because I was going "I want a decent webkit browser." for about three months before it was announced for Windows. |
| 21:48 | < Namegduf> | Because I was tired of Firefox's UI suddenly freezing up because a website was slow, or randomly crashing. |
| 21:50 | < Namegduf> | (Which, for whatever reason, happened to me a lot; 64bit and Flash is a possibility, but FF bugs like the hilarious "didn't delete Flash properly, so music keeps playing after tab closed" bug also had manifested, so I was quite sick of it) |
| 21:53 | <@ToxicFrog> | Aah. We have a fundamental disagreement in browser tastes, then; I do not like minimalistic browsers,except in emergencies. |
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| 21:59 | < Namegduf> | Ah. |
| 21:59 | < Namegduf> | Well, extensions provide the few additional features I care about, really. |
| 21:59 | < Namegduf> | FlashBlock stops Flash without my permission, an essential element in having lots and lots of tabs. |
| 22:04 | <@ToxicFrog> | Firefox has left me pretty much permanently soured on the idea of extensions to provide what I consider core features :/ |
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| 22:10 | < Namegduf> | Hmm, Chrome won't help there, mostly because its extension API is "carefully designed" |
| 22:10 | < Namegduf> | Which means the functionality available is limited. |
| 22:10 | < Namegduf> | Oh, yeah, userjs. |
| 22:11 | < Namegduf> | I'm not sure exactly what that is, honestly... but a Chrome extension is literally just a manifest file detailing name, version, contents, and websites to load on |
| 22:11 | < Namegduf> | And a js file to load on those websites |
| 22:11 | < Namegduf> | At the minimum end, that is. |
| 22:11 | < Namegduf> | I think there's a (semi)automatic way to turn Greasemonkey scripts into Chrome extensions, for example. |
| 22:12 | < Namegduf> | So you see extensions for specific site mods. |
| 22:12 | < Namegduf> | So maybe extensions in general can do it. |
| 22:13 | < Namegduf> | There's more things extensions can do/be than just a JS file, they can have buttons, have a page to keep running in the background, and if they really need to, they can have their own NSPlugin and use that to execute native stuff; such extensions require manual approval to the gallery, though. |
| 22:24 | < celticminstrel> | Hm. Chrome has bookmark sync, but that means your bookmarks are stored online. |
| 22:24 | < Namegduf> | Yep. |
| 22:25 | | * celticminstrel is debating whether to enable that. |
| 22:37 | < celticminstrel> | Does Chrome's session restore also restore the tab history? Firefox's does but Safari's doesn't... |
| 22:45 | < Namegduf> | I don't know, but "undo close tab" does. |
| 22:47 | <@ToxicFrog> | Userjs is a superset of greasemonkey scripts. |
| 22:47 | <@ToxicFrog> | Basically, the ability to write javascript code that's inserted into some set of webpages by the browser. |
| 22:48 | < Namegduf> | Okay, that's what a Chrome extension of the most basic sort is. |
| 22:52 | < Namegduf> | So yeah, supported. |
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| 23:18 | < celticminstrel> | Seems like Chrome doesn't have any lower limit on the width of a tab -- it just squeezes all tabs into the available space. |
| 23:18 | < celticminstrel> | And it doesn't show the page title in the title bar. (It does show it in the tab, but that's less visible.) |
| 23:51 | <@McMartin> | Does anyone here still run 10.4? |
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| --- Log closed Mon Mar 15 00:00:34 2010 |