| --- Log opened Sat Mar 13 00:00:27 2010 |
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| --- Log closed Sat Mar 13 10:06:03 2010 |
| --- Log opened Sat Mar 13 10:14:06 2010 |
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| 16:14 | | AD[Mobile] [Administrator@Nightstar-e4084724.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #code |
| 16:14 | | * AD[Mobile] is setting up a Debian. |
| 16:15 | < AD[Mobile]> | I have two other disks, containing several partitions, aside from the disk with the Debian and its swap partition. |
| 16:16 | < AD[Mobile]> | What I'm trying to do is set up a reasonable arrangement of automounting these drives, so that they're freely available to my regular account, but not neccessarily other users (not implemented yet). |
| 16:16 | < AD[Mobile]> | (Right now they're automounted, but only root has any access.) |
| 16:17 | < AD[Mobile]> | Are there any guidelines for such a problem? |
| 16:17 | < Namegduf> | Configure them in /etc/fstab |
| 16:17 | < AD[Mobile]> | Does FSTAB allow me to specify who has access to the disks? |
| 16:17 | < Namegduf> | Yeah, if they're not Linux partitions. |
| 16:18 | < Namegduf> | Well, normal UNIXey-file-permission filesystems. |
| 16:18 | < Namegduf> | For NTFS and FAT, you can set uid=<number> and gid=<number> options. |
| 16:18 | < AD[Mobile]> | They are NTFS (and a lonely FAT32) partitions. |
| 16:18 | < Namegduf> | Which do pretty much what you'd guess to the contents of the partitions. |
| 16:18 | < Namegduf> | Okay, then yeah, that does it. |
| 16:22 | < AD[Mobile]> | I'm not sure I understand. I want them mounted for a specific user. The tutorial for automounting I'm looking just has suid/nosuid. |
| 16:22 | < Namegduf> | man /etc/fstab |
| 16:22 | < Namegduf> | They're filesystem specific options for NTFS and FAT32 |
| 16:23 | < celticminstrel> | ...wouldn't "man /etc/fstab" try to interpret /etc/fstab as the manual file? |
| 16:23 | < AD[Mobile]> | Yep. |
| 16:24 | < AD[Mobile]> | I did that. |
| 16:24 | < AD[Mobile]> | Did I just accidentally overwrite the helpfile I was trying to access? |
| 16:26 | < AD[Mobile]> | Doesn't see so. |
| 16:26 | < AD[Mobile]> | *seem |
| 16:26 | | Tarinaky [Tarinaky@Nightstar-ed2e0fd0.adsl.virginmedia.net] has joined #code |
| 16:27 | | * AD[Mobile] focuses his black gaze on Tarinaky. |
| 16:28 | < celticminstrel> | I'd suggest "man fstab", but I really have no idea. |
| 16:29 | < AD[Mobile]> | That worked. |
| 16:31 | < AD[Mobile]> | But I don't see anything about what I need. |
| 16:31 | | * AD[Mobile] checks mount. |
| 16:32 | < AD[Mobile]> | Alright, fuck this. |
| 16:32 | < AD[Mobile]> | I'm going to make some directories on the user's desktop, then fstab the drives at them. |
| 16:34 | < Namegduf> | AD[Mobile]: It did? |
| 16:35 | < Namegduf> | Huh, sorry, I misremembered. |
| 16:35 | < Namegduf> | AD[Mobile]: Okay, give me a second. |
| 16:35 | < Namegduf> | /dev/sdb7 /Archives ntfs-3g noatime,uid=1000,gid=1000 0 2 |
| 16:35 | < Namegduf> | There's an example. |
| 16:36 | < AD[Mobile]> | What should I put as the file system type for FAT32? |
| 16:36 | < Namegduf> | Device, mount point, filesystem, option, weird thing I forget which is always 0, then the fs checking rule which should be 2 if it isn't / or a magic filesystem. |
| 16:36 | < Namegduf> | vfat |
| 16:36 | < Namegduf> | noatime isn't strictly speaking necessary, the important one is the other two. |
| 16:36 | < Namegduf> | Obviously need to replace my uid/gid with your user's. |
| 16:37 | < AD[Mobile]> | How do I find out my user's UID/GID? |
| 16:37 | < Namegduf> | You can look at /etc/passwd in a text editor, at the least. |
| 16:37 | < Namegduf> | Or run "stat" on one of your own files. |
| --- Log closed Sat Mar 13 16:38:37 2010 |
| --- Log opened Sat Mar 13 16:51:40 2010 |
| 16:51 | | TheWatcher [chris@Nightstar-b4529b0c.zen.co.uk] has joined #code |
| 16:51 | | Irssi: #code: Total of 22 nicks [4 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 18 normal] |
| 16:51 | | mode/#code [+o TheWatcher] by Reiver |
| 16:52 | | Irssi: Join to #code was synced in 51 secs |
| 16:54 | < AD[Mobile]> | Won't the chmod of /mnt/ and whatnot interfere with usage? |
| 16:55 | < PinkFreud> | AD[Mobile]: permissions on the mount point doesn't matter. it'll take on the permissions of the root of the filesystem that's mounted there |
| 16:56 | < AD[Mobile]> | Okay. Is there a SUDO for the GUI? |
| 16:57 | < PinkFreud> | er, that's a definite maybe |
| 16:57 | < jerith> | I believe so, but it's probably a pain to use. |
| 16:58 | < jerith> | gsudo or something, probably. |
| 16:58 | < celticminstrel> | ... magic filesystem? |
| 16:58 | < celticminstrel> | Also, doesn't "who" or "finger" or something tell you your UID? |
| 17:00 | < AD[Mobile]> | Is it a problem that the system can't enumerate my USB keyboard? |
| 17:02 | < AD[Mobile]> | Okay, it seems to work. |
| 17:02 | < AD[Mobile]> | Thanks, everyone. |
| 17:02 | < PinkFreud> | cool |
| 17:04 | < AD[Mobile]> | That's strange. The NTFS disks were mounted as my user's with 700, but the FAT32 was mounted as my user's with 755. |
| 17:05 | < Namegduf> | Hmm. |
| 17:05 | < Namegduf> | There may be an option for that, too. |
| 17:05 | < PinkFreud> | probably driver defaults. they don't do unix permissions natively. |
| 17:05 | < PinkFreud> | there is. |
| 17:06 | < PinkFreud> | that also depends on whether you're using the native ntfs driver or the fuse driver |
| 17:07 | < AD[Mobile]> | It's not a big problem. The FAT32 is for FreeDOS. |
| 17:44 | | AD[Mobile] [Administrator@Nightstar-e4084724.adsl.tpnet.pl] has left #code [] |
| 17:45 | | AnnoDebian [jpkociak@Nightstar-e4084724.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #code |
| 17:46 | < AnnoDebian> | I came here to ask a question, but forgot what it was. |
| 17:49 | < celticminstrel> | XD |
| 17:50 | < jerith> | Something about Red Hat or SuSE perhaps? |
| 17:50 | < AnnoDebian> | No. |
| 17:51 | <@ToxicFrog> | Also, gui sudo is "gnomesu" under gnome. |
| 17:51 | < AnnoDebian> | I think I meant to ask how to set up irssi with screen so I have a channel roster visible in addition to the channel main window. |
| 17:52 | < jerith> | Ah. |
| 17:52 | < jerith> | That isn't easy. |
| 17:52 | < jerith> | I got it sort of going at one point, but it sucked enough that I dropped it. |
| 17:52 | < AnnoDebian> | Okay. |
| 17:52 | < AnnoDebian> | It's not a problem. |
| 17:52 | < AnnoDebian> | I got used to no roster. |
| 17:53 | < jerith> | I prefer to set up autojoins and then "/layout save" so they stay where I put them. |
| 17:53 | < jerith> | For example, this is window 13. |
| 17:53 | < AnnoDebian> | I remember! |
| 17:53 | < jerith> | You can also "/win goto #code" or whatever. |
| 17:53 | < jerith> | Or do you want a user list? |
| 17:54 | < AnnoDebian> | What I wanted to ask is how to switch between terminals in the GUI. LAlt+function keys doesn't work. |
| 17:54 | | * jerith has probably failed an assumption somewhere. |
| 17:54 | < AnnoDebian> | User list. |
| 17:54 | < jerith> | Switch between terminals? |
| 17:55 | < AnnoDebian> | Yeah. In the console mode of Debian, I could switch between terminals 1 through 6 with LAlt+F1-6. |
| 17:55 | < jerith> | You can bounce to text-mode VTs with alt+ctrl+F<1,2,3,4,5,6> |
| 17:55 | < AnnoDebian> | Cool. Thanks. |
| 17:55 | < jerith> | I was actually talking about the user list before I muttered about layout save. |
| 17:56 | < jerith> | I just "/names" eveny now and then when I care. |
| 17:56 | < jerith> | *every |
| 17:56 | < AnnoDebian> | I do too. |
| 17:57 | < jerith> | I have joins and parts displayed, so it isn't necessary that often. |
| 17:57 | < jerith> | And I usually notice that an idler isn't present wehn tab-completion on the nick fails. |
| 17:57 | < jerith> | *when |
| 17:57 | < jerith> | What's up with my fingers tonight? |
| 17:57 | < Namegduf> | I just /names whenever I would actually look at the list, yeah, and I've found that it's unusual. |
| 17:57 | < celticminstrel> | They're rebelling! |
| 17:57 | < AnnoDebian> | Okay, next on my list: I want to have a Windows XP in a virtual box, so I don't have to reboot every time I want to do something Windows-specific, like play a game. |
| 17:58 | < AnnoDebian> | What piece of software is recommended? |
| 17:58 | < Namegduf> | Download and install VirtualBox. |
| 17:58 | < Namegduf> | Oh, you weren't meaning the specific software by name. |
| 17:58 | < jerith> | VirtualBox for the win. |
| 17:58 | < Namegduf> | I use VirtualBox; VMWare is a competitor some people seem to favour. |
| 17:59 | < Namegduf> | I tried VMWare once and it crashed three times while trying to install XP. |
| 17:59 | < Namegduf> | I uninstalled it. |
| 17:59 | < jerith> | xen or kvm or something for servers, but VirtualBox if you want a GUI. |
| 17:59 | < Namegduf> | Yeah. |
| 17:59 | < AnnoDebian> | Right. What do I do to install VB? To install Opera, I had to copy/paste magic from an internet site. |
| 18:00 | < jerith> | You download the installer from the interwebs and install it. |
| 18:00 | < jerith> | It's dead simple on Mac OS, never used it on anything else. |
| 18:00 | <@ToxicFrog> | ...Opera has a .deb installer, you should have been able to download that and double click on it |
| 18:00 | <@ToxicFrog> | As for virtualbox, http://www.virtualbox.org/wiki/Linux_Downloads |
| 18:00 | < Namegduf> | VirtualBox has a .deb installer too, yeah. |
| 18:00 | <@ToxicFrog> | Find the right link for your version and let the installer do the work. |
| 18:00 | < AnnoDebian> | ToxicFrog: I did. It prompted me with 'unsupported archive'. |
| 18:01 | <@ToxicFrog> | ...this implies that either you tried to open it with fileroller or something, or the download was damaged |
| 18:01 | < Namegduf> | You can always download the .deb and run "dpkg -i <file>" |
| 18:01 | < AnnoDebian> | When I tried to install the file, using console magic under su, I managed to fuck up my package list. |
| 18:01 | < Namegduf> | Wow. |
| 18:01 | <@ToxicFrog> | Because what should happen is, you doule click on it, it asks you for the root password, thinks for a bit, and then it's installed. |
| 18:01 | < Namegduf> | I suspect your console magic was bad. |
| 18:01 | < Namegduf> | That really really shouldn't be necessary. |
| 18:01 | < AnnoDebian> | Namegduf: It was character-for-character your suggestion. |
| 18:02 | < Namegduf> | Hmm. Maybe the .deb was horribly broken or something. |
| 18:02 | < AnnoDebian> | It spewed out errors, apparently complaining that I didn't have something Opera required. |
| 18:02 | < Namegduf> | Oh, that's fine. |
| 18:02 | <@ToxicFrog> | ...that's not "fucked up your package list", that's "dependencies not satisfied" |
| 18:02 | < Namegduf> | It keeps the package in a "not yet installed" state, you can then install dependencies and I'm not sure how to finish the installation from the command line. |
| 18:02 | < AnnoDebian> | And when I tried to run Add/Remove Programs, it said 'oh shit, run apt-get update and shit, 'cause this is broken'. |
| 18:03 | <@ToxicFrog> | ...are you sure it didn't just say "your package list is out of date, you should run apt-get update"? |
| 18:03 | < AnnoDebian> | I'm sure. |
| 18:03 | < AnnoDebian> | Those are different. I got both. |
| 18:03 | < Namegduf> | I'm guessing Synaptic failed it. |
| 18:04 | < Namegduf> | Basically, if you try to manually install a package and dependencies fail, it sits in a not-yet-installed state, and you can install dependencies, then it finishes. |
| 18:04 | < Namegduf> | aptitude does this automatically; open it after a "dependencies missing" manual install and it offers to install the missing dependencies and complete installation. |
| 18:05 | < Namegduf> | Not sure how to do it with apt-get, or what is wrong with Synaptic. |
| 18:05 | < Namegduf> | Annoying that it happened, though. |
| 18:07 | < AnnoDebian> | Okay, that sounds likely. |
| 18:08 | <@ToxicFrog> | Oh yes. As far as using virtualbox for gaming goes: 3d acceleration is a big no. |
| 18:08 | <@ToxicFrog> | if you need that, dual boot or use wine. |
| 18:09 | < Namegduf> | "Generally" that's true, yeah. |
| 18:09 | < Namegduf> | It can do some, but it has about WINE's compatibility. |
| 18:09 | < Namegduf> | Which isn't coincidental, because it uses WINE's DirectX drivers. |
| 18:09 | < Namegduf> | Well, WINE's DX implementation. |
| 18:10 | < Namegduf> | So you don't want to count on it. |
| 18:10 | < AnnoDebian> | Okay, I've downloaded the .deb file. What do? |
| 18:11 | <@ToxicFrog> | Double click on it. |
| 18:11 | < AnnoDebian> | Archive type unsupported. |
| 18:11 | <@ToxicFrog> | Or right click and look for "install package" or "open with software installer" or similar. |
| 18:12 | < AnnoDebian> | Those don't appear to be options. |
| 18:12 | <@ToxicFrog> | ...hmm |
| 18:12 | <@ToxicFrog> | It's been a while since I used debian, and on ubuntu this Just Works |
| 18:12 | < Namegduf> | If no one else knows how to resolve it right from the terminal otherwise... |
| 18:12 | < Namegduf> | apt-get install aptitude, dpkg -i <file>, aptitude |
| 18:13 | < AnnoDebian> | Is this one command, or three? |
| 18:13 | < Namegduf> | Thre. |
| 18:13 | < Namegduf> | *Three |
| 18:13 | < AnnoDebian> | As su, I suppose? |
| 18:13 | < Namegduf> | Yeah. |
| 18:13 | < Namegduf> | You could separate them by && and have it be one command, but that's not really necessary. |
| 18:13 | < celticminstrel> | If it's three commands, shouldn't you have separated them with semicolons rather than commas? |
| 18:13 | < celticminstrel> | Or that? |
| 18:15 | < AnnoDebian> | Errors. What do I do to install the missing packages? apt-get install <whatever>? |
| 18:15 | < Namegduf> | The last command was for that. |
| 18:15 | < Namegduf> | I don't actually know how to do it with apt-get, so aptitude can do it. |
| 18:15 | <@ToxicFrog> | AnnoDebian: what errors, on what command? |
| 18:16 | < Namegduf> | Hit "g" to say "install". |
| 18:16 | < AnnoDebian> | One moment while I pastie. |
| 18:16 | < Namegduf> | Once aptitude starts, I mean. |
| 18:16 | < Namegduf> | It's got a command list at the top. |
| 18:17 | <@ToxicFrog> | (why Debian, incidentally?) |
| 18:17 | < AnnoDebian> | http://pastie.org/868102 |
| 18:17 | <@ToxicFrog> | ...and then command you entered was? |
| 18:17 | < AnnoDebian> | (Because one of the lecturers recommended it.) |
| 18:17 | <@ToxicFrog> | (he's insane~) |
| 18:18 | < AnnoDebian> | ToxicFrog: She. And it was the second one. |
| 18:18 | < AnnoDebian> | dpkg -i <file> |
| 18:18 | <@ToxicFrog> | Ok, that's expected; run 'aptitude' |
| 18:19 | < AnnoDebian> | I've arrived at the aptitude screen. I now realize I don't know how to use this. |
| 18:19 | <@ToxicFrog> | <Namegduf> Hit "g" to say "install". |
| 18:19 | < Namegduf> | Probably "twice". |
| 18:19 | < AnnoDebian> | Score is 119? Is this a game? <_< |
| 18:19 | < Namegduf> | Depending on whether it automatically took you to the "packages to install" list or not. |
| 18:20 | < Namegduf> | Sort of. |
| 18:20 | < Namegduf> | XD |
| 18:20 | <@ToxicFrog> | Seriously though, debian is good if you want something where every package undergoes a year of testing before it becomes available. It's bad if you want to up to date software or something that's actually easy to use. |
| 18:20 | < Namegduf> | Well, let me put it this way |
| 18:20 | < Namegduf> | I run Debian Unstable on my netbook. |
| 18:20 | < Namegduf> | It gets pretty fast updates. |
| 18:20 | < Namegduf> | How unstable is it? Well, I found out I was running a slightly old version of gdm and was wondering why, the rest of GNOME was current. |
| 18:21 | < AnnoDebian> | I seem to have removed the half-installed virtual box, and returned to the aptitude screen. |
| 18:21 | < Namegduf> | So I hit the ArchLinux wiki in my search and there are rakes of issues and bugs and partial workarounds with it. In their main release. |
| 18:21 | | Thaqui [Thaqui@27B34E.D54D49.F53FA1.6A113C] has joined #code |
| 18:21 | < Namegduf> | Debian Unstable was more stable than ArchLinux main in the only chance I've had yet to compare them. |
| 18:22 | < Namegduf> | Eurgh. |
| 18:22 | < Namegduf> | It didn't offer to install dependencies, but to remove the VirtualBox package? |
| 18:22 | < Namegduf> | How annoying. |
| 18:22 | < AnnoDebian> | Yep. |
| 18:22 | < Namegduf> | I mean, it's normalish, but it means instructions get more complex. |
| 18:22 | <@ToxicFrog> | Meanwhile, installing it on OpenSUSE or Ubuntu is a matter of "click the button". |
| 18:23 | <@ToxicFrog> | Try "gnomesu synaptic" for a graphical interface, and see if you can feed the .deb to that? |
| 18:23 | < Namegduf> | Yeah, yeah, Debian is weak on out-of-repository installations until you learn how. |
| 18:23 | < AnnoDebian> | gnomesu: command not found |
| 18:24 | <@ToxicFrog> | gksudo synaptic? |
| 18:24 | < Namegduf> | gksudo sounds right. |
| 18:24 | < Namegduf> | Try ToxicFox's idea; the alternative is "install it again, go back to aptitude, hit g to the possible-solution-and-score list, and hit e, then go through the offered "solutions". |
| 18:24 | <@ToxicFrog> | Namegduf: the point I'm making is that debian is really indended for experienced systems administrators and other people who already know their shit and value stability over everything else. |
| 18:24 | < Namegduf> | Then pick the one which works. The buttons are at the bottom, but graphics are prettier. |
| 18:25 | <@ToxicFrog> | If you _aren't_ already an experienced Linux administrator, you are entering a world of pain. |
| 18:25 | < Namegduf> | I wouldn't call it "a world of pain" |
| 18:25 | < Namegduf> | Maybe five years ago or something, yeah, but Debian's picked up the basic stuff, it's just in touches like this where things get annoying. |
| 18:25 | <@ToxicFrog> | It is if you're a newbie and just want to get a working desktop. |
| 18:26 | < Namegduf> | A newbie has no business installing software outside the main repo |
| 18:26 | < Namegduf> | In my view. |
| 18:26 | < Namegduf> | But I do agree that "for the newbie user" is not one of their design goals. |
| 18:26 | < jerith> | Yay for Ubuntu/Launchpad PPAs. |
| 18:27 | < AnnoDebian> | Synaptic claims that VB has 'unresolvable dependancies'. |
| 18:27 | < Namegduf> | Did you download the right version of VB? |
| 18:27 | < Namegduf> | Right architecture, right version of Debian? |
| 18:27 | < AnnoDebian> | I think so. |
| 18:28 | < AnnoDebian> | Debian 5, i386. |
| 18:28 | <@ToxicFrog> | Well, on Fedora, Ubuntu, and OpenSUSE at least, installing software outside the main repo is a matter of "click the link, choose 'open', enter your password" |
| 18:28 | < Namegduf> | Because that would mean that the VB .deb is "broken" |
| 18:28 | < Namegduf> | ToxicFrog: If you can pick the right version. If they're *packaged* for your distro. |
| 18:28 | | Serah [Z@3A600C.A966FF.5BF32D.8E7ABA] has quit [Ping timeout: 121 seconds] |
| 18:28 | <@ToxicFrog> | I am assuming here that both of those things are true. |
| 18:28 | < Namegduf> | In the case of WINE, you need to manually add their repo, I think. |
| 18:29 | <@ToxicFrog> | Which is the case with, say, Opera. |
| 18:29 | < Namegduf> | (Which is a good idea anyway) |
| 18:29 | <@ToxicFrog> | ...wine is in-repo on all of those. |
| 18:29 | < Namegduf> | How current is it? |
| 18:29 | <@ToxicFrog> | You can $PM install wine out of the box. |
| 18:29 | | * ToxicFrog checks |
| 18:29 | < Namegduf> | I suppose times have changed a little |
| 18:29 | < Namegduf> | But back when I actually used WINE, it was a "You want the latest version, exactly, if you want the fix for your game" |
| 18:29 | < Namegduf> | Kind of thing. |
| 18:30 | <@ToxicFrog> | On SUSE 11.1, wine 1.1.11, latest development version is 1.1.40; note that SUSE 11.1 is itself out of date. |
| 18:30 | <@ToxicFrog> | (because I don't dist-upgrade in the middle of the semester) |
| 18:31 | < Namegduf> | Better than Debian by far, so I guess you could get by. |
| 18:32 | <@ToxicFrog> | software.opensuse.org informs me that SUSE 11.2 has wine 1.1.40. |
| 18:33 | < Namegduf> | Hmm, I suppose that does avoid the issue. |
| 18:33 | < Namegduf> | Still, I tend to regard most Linux software as sufficiently apathetically packaged that you want to know what you're doing. As many aren't packaged as are. |
| 18:34 | < Namegduf> | Skype... only one .deb f or Debian, Fedora, and SUSE. |
| 18:34 | < Namegduf> | Well, their equivalents. |
| 18:34 | <@ToxicFrog> | I'm still not sure why this is an argument in favour of Debian. |
| 18:34 | < Namegduf> | I didn't realise we were discussing Debian. |
| 18:34 | < AnnoDebian> | I seem to have been able to navigate into a solution that installs stuff instead of removing it. It's downloading now. |
| 18:35 | < Namegduf> | I thought we were talking about the practicality of newbie users installing Linux software out of repo. |
| 18:35 | < Namegduf> | For Skype, if you're on 64bit and not running Ubuntu, you need to download the .tar.bz2 and better hope you know to get the Static one. |
| 18:35 | < Namegduf> | I believe. |
| 18:36 | < Namegduf> | (For Debian, I know it's true, and Fedora and SUSE both also only have one download link) |
| 18:36 | <@ToxicFrog> | Right, but what brought that up was you essentially saying "it doesn't matter if installing software out of repo is painful and easy to get wrong, because newbies shouldn't be doing that anyways" |
| 18:36 | < Namegduf> | Right. |
| 18:37 | < Namegduf> | I agree it's a flaw, I don't think it's that big of one because installing third-party software on Linux is only smooth with relatively few programs, and that's assuming the kind of newbie who can correctly name their distro, version, and architecture. |
| 18:37 | <@ToxicFrog> | Well, Opera at least will auto-detect and give you the right deb/rpm/etc for your system |
| 18:38 | < Namegduf> | That's nice, but unusual. |
| 18:38 | < AnnoDebian> | Nnnno. |
| 18:38 | < AnnoDebian> | The download link it gave me at the homepage was for Ubuntu. |
| 18:38 | < Namegduf> | ...yeah, that's not really guaranteed to work. |
| 18:39 | < AnnoDebian> | I downloaded the Debian version, because I'm that kind of newbie. :p |
| 18:39 | <@ToxicFrog> | ...ok, I lied, Opera no longer does the autodetection thing |
| 18:39 | < Namegduf> | Unles you mean the http://www.virtualbox.org/wiki/Linux_Downloads link for Debian was mislinked to Ubuntu. |
| 18:39 | <@ToxicFrog> | It did last time I downloaded it, which was amittedly a while ago |
| 18:39 | < AnnoDebian> | I meant Opera. |
| 18:39 | < Namegduf> | Ah. |
| 18:40 | < Namegduf> | Sorry. |
| 18:40 | < Namegduf> | Ubuntu packages sometimes do and sometimes don't work on Debian. |
| 18:40 | < Namegduf> | The Chromium PPA does. |
| 18:40 | < Namegduf> | But others might not. |
| 18:40 | < Namegduf> | I think it takes some deliberate care on the part of the package author when setting up dependencies and is kinda hacky anyway. |
| 18:41 | < jerith> | Because they're built with Ubuntu deps instead of Debian ones. |
| 18:41 | < Namegduf> | Right. |
| 18:41 | < AnnoDebian> | Awright, I'm at a screen that says that a group 'vboxusers' has been created, and that users of VB must be part of that group. |
| 18:41 | <@ToxicFrog> | Anyways. I reject the validity of "they shouldn't do it, so it doesn't matter how bad it is"; the fact of the matter is, they will, and Skype, Opera, and VirtualBox all manage to maintain packages that install completely painlessly on, at least, SUSE and Ubuntu. |
| 18:41 | < Namegduf> | Whoo. |
| 18:41 | < Namegduf> | No they don't. |
| 18:41 | < jerith> | You can get around it by statically compiling stuff, but you need to be the package builder to do that. |
| 18:41 | < Namegduf> | Skype's packages are restricted to 32bit. |
| 18:41 | < Namegduf> | Except for Ubuntu. |
| 18:42 | <@ToxicFrog> | Conveniently, 64-bit SUSE and Fedora systems can install and use 64-bit packages without the sort of chroot hackery Ubuntu needs. |
| 18:42 | <@ToxicFrog> | *32-bit packages. |
| 18:42 | < jerith> | Debian's license purity (partially inherited by Ubuntu) is annoying. |
| 18:43 | < Namegduf> | More in speech than effect, I've found. |
| 18:43 | < Namegduf> | Well, I guess for people who can't add non-free manually, which is a legitimate issue too. |
| 18:44 | < AnnoDebian> | It seems the installation finished. How do I use this? |
| 18:44 | < Namegduf> | VirtualBox? |
| 18:44 | < Namegduf> | Check out your "System" menu. |
| 18:44 | < AnnoDebian> | Yep. |
| 18:44 | <@ToxicFrog> | It should be in the menus. |
| 18:44 | < Namegduf> | Or whatever GNOME calls it. |
| 18:45 | <@ToxicFrog> | Over here it shows up in Applications->System->Emulator |
| 18:45 | < AnnoDebian> | It does not seem to be in the System menu. |
| 18:45 | <@ToxicFrog> | You can also run "VirtualBox" from the terminal |
| 18:45 | < AnnoDebian> | Both of these are absent. |
| 18:45 | < Namegduf> | Look through them, I don't know how GNOME lays things out. |
| 18:46 | < AnnoDebian> | Launched it from terminal. Where's the skip button on this registration form? |
| 18:47 | < AnnoDebian> | Can I cancel without hassle? |
| 18:47 | < Namegduf> | I don't remember, would have to have been over a year since I last installed from fresh. |
| 18:47 | < AnnoDebian> | Seems so. |
| 18:47 | < Namegduf> | I'd think so. |
| 18:48 | < AnnoDebian> | Will closing the terminal window close VB? |
| 18:49 | < AnnoDebian> | Apparently not. |
| 18:50 | < AnnoDebian> | Are irssi settings directly copy/pastable from the Windows settings files to the Linux settings files? |
| 18:52 | | Rhamphoryncus [rhamph@Nightstar-8931f88f.abhsia.telus.net] has quit [Client exited] |
| 18:52 | <@ToxicFrog> | Probably, but I don't know. |
| 18:52 | < Namegduf> | Hmm. |
| 18:53 | < Namegduf> | For Cygwin irssi... I think it puts some junk in there that makes Linux irssi unhappy, but basically works and the junk is readily removable. |
| 18:53 | < Namegduf> | Actually, that might be the normal Windows irssi that did that. |
| 18:53 | < Namegduf> | So I'd say "try it". |
| 18:56 | < AnnoDebian> | Bother. It seems I cannot make a virtual disk on one of my newly-mounted drives because VB doesn't have permissions. |
| 18:56 | < Namegduf> | Hmm. |
| 18:56 | | Serah [Z@26ECB6.A4B64C.298B52.D80DA0] has joined #code |
| 18:56 | < Namegduf> | Okay, you'll need to modify the permissions to 770 |
| 18:57 | < Namegduf> | And add the virtualbox user to your group. |
| 18:57 | < Namegduf> | Aha. |
| 18:57 | < Namegduf> | Add ",mode=0770" |
| 18:57 | < Namegduf> | To the options line for those drives. |
| 18:59 | < Namegduf> | Hmm, I wonder what user VirtualBox DOES run as. |
| 18:59 | < Namegduf> | It looks like it's running as the normal user. |
| 18:59 | < AnnoDebian> | Okay. How do I add users to groups? |
| 18:59 | < Namegduf> | It's adduser <user> <group> |
| 19:00 | < jerith> | usermod -G group,group,group user |
| 19:00 | < Namegduf> | But VirtualBox seems to be running as the invoking user anyway, so I'm somewhat confused, unless your system is different. Do you have read/write access to that disk? |
| 19:01 | < jerith> | (You need to list all groups. It modifies rather than adding.) |
| 19:01 | < Namegduf> | Ew. |
| 19:01 | < Namegduf> | Useful to know, though. |
| 19:01 | < Namegduf> | I'd not used that form. |
| 19:01 | < AnnoDebian> | Oh, it appears I don't have permissions. |
| 19:01 | < AnnoDebian> | For some reason. |
| 19:02 | <@ToxicFrog> | And this is why I generally use the gui. |
| 19:02 | < Namegduf> | Are you sure the uid/gid are right, and did you mount them after editing fstab? |
| 19:02 | < celticminstrel> | I thought "virtualbox" was a group, not a user? Just from what someone said earlier. |
| 19:02 | < Namegduf> | When he said it didn't have permissions, I assumed it had its own user for its own stuff as many programs do |
| 19:02 | < AnnoDebian> | The UID/GID seem to be correct. Yes, they automounted using fstab. |
| 19:03 | < Namegduf> | Can you run "stat /path/to/some/file/on/that/drive"? |
| 19:03 | < AnnoDebian> | celticminstrel: A prompt said that the group 'vboxusers' was being created. |
| 19:03 | < Namegduf> | And see what user it reports? |
| 19:04 | < AnnoDebian> | Reports my user. |
| 19:04 | < Namegduf> | And you can't write to the drive? |
| 19:04 | < Namegduf> | Wait, is this an NTFS drive? |
| 19:04 | <@ToxicFrog> | The vboxusers group is to permit access to certain devices, mostly USB IIRC |
| 19:04 | < AnnoDebian> | Correct. I tried creating an empty file and it failed. |
| 19:05 | < AnnoDebian> | I can view the drive, and I seem to be able to read things from it. |
| 19:05 | < AnnoDebian> | Namegduf: Yes. |
| 19:06 | < Namegduf> | Okay. Try "apt-get install ntfs-3g" |
| 19:06 | < Namegduf> | If it doesn't say "already installed", that's the problem. |
| 19:06 | < AnnoDebian> | It got installed. |
| 19:06 | < Namegduf> | Okay, you need to restart and have those drives remounted. |
| 19:07 | < Namegduf> | They must have been using the read-only NTFS driver. |
| 19:07 | < AnnoDebian> | Do I have to alter fstab? |
| 19:08 | < Namegduf> | Not if you set it to ntfs-3g the first time. |
| 19:08 | < Namegduf> | If you changed it to "ntfs" or something, then yes. |
| 19:12 | < AnnoDebian> | That was my original setting. I didn't know it was read-only. |
| 19:12 | | * AnnoDebian searches for irssi settings before rebooting. |
| 19:17 | | AnnoDebian [jpkociak@Nightstar-e4084724.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [[NS] Quit: Damn them.] |
| 19:36 | | AnnoDebian [jpkociak@Nightstar-e4084724.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #code |
| 19:36 | < AnnoDebian> | irssi seems to be ignoring my new settings. Will probably have to recreate them the recommended way later. |
| 19:37 | < jerith> | You aren't editing the config by hand, are you? |
| 19:37 | < jerith> | Because that's a good way to dive head first into a world of pain. |
| 19:37 | | * jerith has the scars. |
| 19:37 | < AnnoDebian> | But it looks soooooo human-readable. |
| 19:38 | < jerith> | It isn't human-editable. |
| 19:38 | < jerith> | Unless you're a much more competent human than I. |
| 19:40 | < AnnoDebian> | I managed not to fuck up the config file on Windows. |
| 19:43 | < AnnoDebian> | Is there any easy way to modify the keyboard layout? |
| 19:44 | < AnnoDebian> | There wasn't an option for Dvorak with Polish RAlt characters. |
| 19:44 | < jerith> | Your terminal or whatever should do that. |
| 19:45 | < jerith> | You can set the character encoding, but you want utf8 for that. |
| 19:46 | < AnnoDebian> | No, no, I mean in general. For the OS. |
| 19:46 | < jerith> | Oh, Debian? |
| 19:47 | < jerith> | There probably is, but I don't know it. |
| 20:00 | < AnnoDebian> | Shit. How do I list processes so I can kill one of them? |
| 20:01 | <@ToxicFrog> | pgrep -l <partial name> |
| 20:01 | < Namegduf> | "ps aux" for the whole system, "ps x" for your user. |
| 20:01 | < Namegduf> | Oh, that's a better idea. |
| 20:01 | <@ToxicFrog> | or ps -eaf | grep <string> |
| 20:01 | <@ToxicFrog> | If you need the full command line and whatnot |
| 20:01 | <@ToxicFrog> | Also, 'killall <process name>' |
| 20:01 | <@ToxicFrog> | (if there's no chance of collateral damage; 'killall VirtualBox' is probably safe, 'killall bash' is probably not) |
| 20:03 | < AnnoDebian> | Thanks. |
| 20:04 | < AnnoDebian> | I'm looking at the keyboard configuration's first screen/menu and it's incomprehensible. |
| 20:17 | | PinkFreud [WhyNot@NetworkAdministrator.Nightstar.Net] has quit [Ping timeout: 121 seconds] |
| 20:28 | | PinkFreud [WhyNot@NetworkAdministrator.Nightstar.Net] has joined #code |
| 20:39 | | * AnnoDebian mutters crossly at Pidgin. |
| 20:40 | < Tarinaky> | * AD[Mobile] focuses his black gaze on Tarinaky. |
| 20:40 | | * Tarinaky bursts into flames. |
| 20:44 | <@ToxicFrog> | ...keyboard configuration for what? |
| 20:45 | <@Vornicus> | I think he means "what kind of keyboard do you have?" |
| 20:47 | < AnnoDebian> | I want a custom keymap. |
| 21:01 | < AnnoDebian> | I'm tired. I have been working on getting a functional OS all day. At the end of the day, I don't have a fully proper keyboard translation, or a good IM, because Pidgin fails to load Gadu-Gadu contacts from serve for no reason. |
| 21:03 | < AnnoDebian> | How do I save the output of dumpkeys to file? |
| 21:09 | | Serah [Z@26ECB6.A4B64C.298B52.D80DA0] has quit [Ping timeout: 121 seconds] |
| 21:09 | <@ToxicFrog> | dumpkeys > filename? |
| 21:11 | < AnnoDebian> | Thanks. |
| 21:13 | < AnnoDebian> | I keep finding mentions of something called X Keyboard Extensions. |
| 21:13 | < AnnoDebian> | Is it usable under Debian? |
| 21:16 | < AnnoDebian> | Failing a complete re-mapping, is there a way to add custom keyboard shortcuts? |
| 21:17 | < AnnoDebian> | I want to have RAlt modify aoeclsxzn for special characters. |
| 21:19 | | Serah [Z@5E691D.FC7C16.75EF63.79552C] has joined #code |
| 21:32 | | Zed [Zed@Nightstar-d0088b95.or.comcast.net] has quit [Client closed the connection] |
| 21:32 | | Zed [Zed@Nightstar-d0088b95.or.comcast.net] has joined #code |
| 21:33 | <@ToxicFrog> | I have no idea. |
| 21:33 | <@ToxicFrog> | Beyond remapping capslock as control and enabling SCIM for unicode and japanese input, I have done nothing with the keyboard |
| 21:35 | | Serah [Z@5E691D.FC7C16.75EF63.79552C] has quit [Ping timeout: 121 seconds] |
| 21:49 | | Serah [Z@Nightstar-11344bdb.customer.tele.dk] has joined #code |
| 22:00 | | celticminstrel [celticminstre@Nightstar-f8b608eb.cable.rogers.com] has quit [[NS] Quit: *hums* Can't stay now!] |
| 22:43 | | Tarinaky [Tarinaky@Nightstar-ed2e0fd0.adsl.virginmedia.net] has quit [Operation timed out] |
| 22:48 | < AnnoDebian> | ZAJEBI?CIE. |
| 22:50 | < AnnoDebian> | The Debian support forums are apparently worth a damn. |
| 22:51 | <@Vornicus> | Wootcakes |
| 22:52 | < AnnoDebian> | Now if I can just work out why Pidgin fails to load my GG buddy list... |
| 22:55 | < AnnoDebian> | BTW, how is it that Windows fonts manage to look much better than on Linux? Somehow, despite using the same browser, the output I get is different. On Linux, everything looks... smudged. |
| 22:57 | | Tarinaky [Tarinaky@Nightstar-05909da0.adsl.virginmedia.net] has joined #code |
| 23:02 | < AnnoDebian> | Also, any way of making screen resolution go up to 1280x1024? There seem to be only three resolutions supported by default, highest being 1024x768. |
| 23:14 | < PinkFreud> | AnnoDebian: what kind of display? |
| 23:15 | < AnnoDebian> | Uh? |
| 23:15 | < PinkFreud> | 18:14 <PinkFreud> AnnoDebian: what kind of display? |
| 23:15 | < PinkFreud> | :P |
| 23:15 | < AnnoDebian> | I have an LCD monitor. |
| 23:15 | < PinkFreud> | how large? |
| 23:17 | < AnnoDebian> | !roll 34/2.54 |
| 23:17 | < DiceBot> | [AnnoDebian] 34/2.54 = 13.385827. |
| 23:17 | < PinkFreud> | ... a 13" lcd? |
| 23:17 | < AnnoDebian> | I dunno. |
| 23:17 | < PinkFreud> | :) |
| 23:17 | < PinkFreud> | heh |
| 23:18 | < PinkFreud> | do you have a model # for it? |
| 23:18 | < AnnoDebian> | HP L1706. |
| 23:18 | < PinkFreud> | 17" |
| 23:18 | < PinkFreud> | iow, 1280x1024 shouldn't be a problem for it. |
| 23:19 | < PinkFreud> | next question - is it hooked up to a kvm, or is it connected directly to the video card? |
| 23:20 | < AnnoDebian> | Video card. |
| 23:20 | < PinkFreud> | huh. X *should* be able to figure out what resolution to use automatically. |
| 23:20 | < PinkFreud> | can you pastebin /var/log/Xorg.0.log? |
| 23:20 | < AnnoDebian> | Moment. |
| 23:22 | < AnnoDebian> | http://pastie.org/868449 |
| 23:24 | < PinkFreud> | (II) VESA(0): VESA VBE DDC read successfully |
| 23:24 | < PinkFreud> | (II) VESA(0): Manufacturer: HWP Model: 265c Serial#: 16843009 |
| 23:24 | < PinkFreud> | looks like it was able to get your monitor's information. |
| 23:25 | < PinkFreud> | and yep, 1280x1024@75Hz is listed as a supported mode |
| 23:25 | < PinkFreud> | oh, that's why |
| 23:26 | < PinkFreud> | you're using the VESA driver. |
| 23:27 | < AnnoDebian> | What can I do about that? |
| 23:28 | < PinkFreud> | are you expecting full 3d performance, or do you just want a 2d desktop? |
| 23:28 | < PinkFreud> | you should be able to use an open source driver for the latter, or for the former, you'll likely need the binary, proprietary nvidia driver. |
| 23:29 | < AnnoDebian> | 2d desktop is fine, I guess. I downloaded the nVidia driver, though. |
| 23:29 | < PinkFreud> | I'm not a fan of the proprietary drivers. In the past, they were a crashfest. I'm told they're fairly stable now, but I'm not the trusting type. |
| 23:29 | < PinkFreud> | oh? |
| 23:30 | < AnnoDebian> | It's sitting in my download folder. How do I install it? |
| 23:30 | < PinkFreud> | ahh |
| 23:30 | < PinkFreud> | debian actually has packages for this, though you'll need to enable the nonfree repo if you haven't already |
| 23:31 | < PinkFreud> | if you're ok with the 2d driver only, install xserver-xorg-video-nv |
| 23:32 | < AnnoDebian> | apt-get says it's already installed. |
| 23:32 | < PinkFreud> | hmmm. |
| 23:32 | < AnnoDebian> | "xserver-xorg-video-nv set to manually installed." |
| 23:32 | < PinkFreud> | you might also want to look at http://wiki.debian.org/NvidiaGraphicsDrivers |
| 23:32 | < AnnoDebian> | What's that mean? |
| 23:33 | < PinkFreud> | just means that you requested it install a package that was already installed, so it changed the package status from automatically installed to manually. |
| 23:34 | < AnnoDebian> | If it's installed already, how do I turn it on? |
| 23:35 | < PinkFreud> | can you pastebin /etc/X11/xorg.conf ? |
| 23:36 | < AnnoDebian> | http://pastie.org/868470 |
| 23:38 | < PinkFreud> | no video driver specified. it *should* try to figure out which driver to use. |
| 23:38 | < PinkFreud> | (==) Matched vesa for the autoconfigured driver |
| 23:39 | < PinkFreud> | your best bet is to go through http://wiki.debian.org/NvidiaGraphicsDrivers |
| 23:45 | < AnnoDebian> | It's telling me to configure X. I seem to have it installed. |
| 23:47 | < PinkFreud> | oh? |
| 23:48 | < AnnoDebian> | I want to use the free drivers, since the section on their use is much less daunting. |
| 23:48 | < AnnoDebian> | Or so it seems. |
| 23:49 | < AnnoDebian> | It appears to imply that it's simple to change the driver being used. |
| 23:49 | < PinkFreud> | the proprietary driver shouldn't be *that* difficult to install, but it's been ages since I've last tried to do so. |
| 23:49 | | * TheWatcher notes that, provided your systme isn't odd, all you should really need to do to use the nvidia binary driver you've downloaded is `sudo sh <downloaded installer file>` |
| 23:49 | < PinkFreud> | you can try specifying a driver in xorg.conf |
| 23:49 | <@McMartin> | "It's much easier to optimize correct code than to correct optimized code." |
| 23:50 | <@TheWatcher> | it should go through a bunch of prompts, and should autoupdate your xorg.conf. Note shoulds. |
| 23:51 | <@McMartin> | Oh gods |
| 23:51 | <@McMartin> | This is actually why I only used debian builds on ATI cards |
| 23:52 | | * TheWatcher notes it works perfectly on his gentoo systems, but *shrug* |
| 23:52 | <@McMartin> | My Gentoo system had a Voodoo3 >_> |
| 23:52 | <@TheWatcher> | :D |
| 23:52 | <@TheWatcher> | Does it still work? :) |
| 23:52 | < AnnoDebian> | PinkFreud: How do I specify it in xorg.conf? What do I replace "Configured Video Device" with? |
| 23:52 | <@McMartin> | Omicron has been dead for a long, long time. |
| 23:53 | <@TheWatcher> | Woe |
| 23:53 | <@McMartin> | Also, that machine was switched over to Fedora Core 5 before it died. |
| 23:54 | <@McMartin> | Because it turns out that even if you can make Gentoo better than Fedora default UI, you won't. >_> |
| 23:54 | <@McMartin> | Or, at least, not then. |
| 23:54 | < PinkFreud> | insert a new line between lines 32 and 33 |
| 23:54 | <@McMartin> | And after the third or fourth straight time that a change to portage made it impossible to upgrade anything at all necessitating a complete reinstall, I just decided it wasn't worth the effort. |
| 23:54 | < PinkFreud> | on that line, put 'Driver "nv"' |
| 23:55 | <@McMartin> | It was cool that it existed though. I have no idea how it is now. |
| 23:55 | < PinkFreud> | then restart X (or gdm, if you're using that) |
| 23:55 | <@McMartin> | Oh, I take back about half of what I said before. The nv driver always worked fine for me |
| 23:56 | | * McMartin thought we were talking the nvidia-glx stuff |
| 23:56 | <@McMartin> | Which I only ever got working in mid-era Fedoras |
| 23:56 | < AnnoDebian> | PinkFreud: What's the command for restarting X? The obvious one doesn't work. |
| 23:57 | < PinkFreud> | I assume you used the graphical login prompt? |
| 23:57 | < AnnoDebian> | Yes. |
| 23:57 | <@McMartin> | Control-Alt-Backspace |
| 23:57 | <@McMartin> | Is the Force-Restart-X code |
| 23:57 | < PinkFreud> | switch to a text console by holding left alt + left ctrl, and htting F1 |
| 23:57 | < AnnoDebian> | I also use the command prompt whenever I need to do something su-tiful. Which is most of the time. |
| 23:58 | < PinkFreud> | McMartin: er, last resort. |
| 23:58 | < PinkFreud> | AnnoDebian: log in on the text console, and do 'sudo /etc/init.d/gdm restart' |
| 23:58 | < AnnoDebian> | Can I use su instead, since I haven't configured sudo yet? |
| 23:59 | < PinkFreud> | if you do that from within X, you'll likely find that gdm doesn't restart :) |
| 23:59 | < PinkFreud> | sure |
| 23:59 | < PinkFreud> | su to root, and then run /etc/init.d/gdm restart |
| 23:59 | < PinkFreud> | er, do su - root |
| 23:59 | < PinkFreud> | you want to make sure you have root's environment. |
| --- Log closed Sun Mar 14 00:00:32 2010 |