| --- Log opened Wed Dec 02 00:00:31 2009 |
| --- Day changed Wed Dec 02 2009 |
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| 20:35 | < simon`> | what's the purpose of CNF grammars? |
| 20:49 | <@TheWatcher> | Messing with your braqin. |
| 20:49 | <@TheWatcher> | *brain |
| 20:51 | < simon`> | the only reason I can find is that they make proving properties of grammars easier. |
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| 21:06 | < AbuDhabi> | "The final test was to inject molten iron into the starting dwarves as a blood contaminant and make sure that doesn't go well for them. On the second try, everybody melted immediately and I lost, which is good." |
| 21:07 | < Namegduf> | It should make them into superdwarves. |
| 21:07 | < AbuDhabi> | "On the first try, the contaminant cooled off too quickly and they just had a lot of iron sort of abstractly sitting inside of them (...)" |
| 21:07 | < Namegduf> | XD |
| 21:11 | <@TheWatcher> | That's one way to treat anemia... |
| 21:13 | < McMartin> | CNF here is "Chomsky Normal Form", not "Conjunctive Normal Form", right? |
| 21:13 | < McMartin> | And in addition to having them prove properties of grammars easier, they mean that you can get equivalence classes of grammars. |
| 21:14 | < simon`> | sorry, Chomsky. |
| 21:14 | < McMartin> | The *other* CNF is for boolean expression languages, and that's because 2-CNF vs. 3-CNF is the line between P and NP. |
| 21:15 | < McMartin> | (At present knowledge.) |
| 21:16 | < simon`> | McMartin, but just because two CFGs are equivalent, one method for converting the CFGs into CNF doesn't necessarily convert them into equivalent CNF CFGs, right? I.e., one CFG can have several CNF representations. |
| 21:17 | < McMartin> | simon: The equivalence classes aren't individual languages, no. |
| 21:17 | < McMartin> | ... Actually, no, your statement is false. |
| 21:17 | < McMartin> | I'm pretty sure any CFG has exactly one CNF. |
| 21:18 | < McMartin> | However, a CFL has multiple CFGs that decide it. |
| 21:18 | < McMartin> | Which are not guaranteed to reduce to the same CNF. |
| 21:18 | < McMartin> | ("exactly one CNF" except for names of nonterminals &c.) |
| 21:19 | < simon`> | ok. |
| 21:19 | < McMartin> | It's been awhile, though, so don't take that as gospel. |
| 21:19 | < McMartin> | But generally, "normal forms" are uniquifying operators. |
| 21:20 | < gnolam> | AbuDhabi: ? |
| 21:21 | < AbuDhabi> | Dwarf Fortress. |
| 21:21 | < simon`> | I read an essay about a course on, I think, heuristics. it was quite humourous and involved the lecturer on a course saying he knew this number, and he wanted the audience to find out what the number was. |
| 21:22 | < simon`> | what he didn't say was that he would say what this number was if they asked. it took the students quite long to understand this framework, which was related to the moral. |
| 21:22 | < simon`> | has anyone read it, and can they remember the name or link to it? |
| 21:23 | < simon`> | http://www.niquette.com/books/sophmag/heurist.htm ! |
| 21:23 | < simon`> | Google is god. |
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| 23:16 | < dmlandrum> | I just put in a bid for a slide rule. :) |
| 23:22 | < simon`> | what's wrong with abaci? |
| 23:22 | < dmlandrum> | I'm working my way back... |
| 23:22 | < McMartin> | simon: Insufficient decimal places. |
| --- Log closed Thu Dec 03 00:00:58 2009 |