| --- Log opened Tue Dec 01 00:00:53 2009 |
| 00:07 | | Rhamphoryncus [rhamph@Nightstar-a62bd960.abhsia.telus.net] has joined #code |
| 00:11 | | Derakon[work] [Derakon@Nightstar-d44d635e.ucsf.edu] has quit [[NS] Quit: Leaving] |
| 01:01 | < McMartin> | Hm. Hey, MyCatVer1s. Have you seen this? http://www.haskell.org/pipermail/haskell/2009-November/021750.html |
| 01:13 | < Vornicus> | Finale: Derakon works at UC San Francisco, he does programming for a very, very, very fancy microscope. |
| 01:15 | < Finale> | no, I figured out WHAT he was doing, just not where. >_> |
| 01:15 | < Finale> | but thanks. :D |
| 01:48 | | Derakon[AFK] is now known as Derakon |
| 02:23 | < gnolam> | Aaand great. I've lost my USB stick. |
| 02:30 | < McMartin> | boo |
| 02:31 | <@ToxicFrog> | Join the club ;.; |
| 02:31 | <@ToxicFrog> | I'd just finished setting mine up as a dual-boot when it went missing. |
| 02:31 | | * McMartin just successfully recovered all his. |
| 02:31 | | * ToxicFrog has owned four USB keys; three are missing and the last one is a fantastic test for badblocks(1). |
| 02:32 | < McMartin> | Heh |
| 02:32 | | * Vornicus has his usb stick in his computer, where it has been for... months. |
| 02:32 | < gnolam> | Mine only goes AWOL when I need it. :P |
| 02:32 | | * McMartin is running Windows off a USB stick on one machine, while the other office USB stick is sitting on his desk. |
| 02:32 | <@ToxicFrog> | I generally carry mine around with me, since it contains a bunch of portableapps and at least one live linux system for use on the lab machines. |
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| 03:28 | <@ToxicFrog> | Bad news: homework is taking forever to run, also no closer to finding the SS1 action map. |
| 03:28 | <@ToxicFrog> | Good news: I have found the ring buffer where it keeps keyboard events. |
| 03:28 | <@ToxicFrog> | (each one is a uint16_t) |
| 03:29 | <@ToxicFrog> | (I can't find the read pointer for the ring buffer, though) |
| 03:29 | <@ToxicFrog> | (if it even has one) |
| 03:33 | <@ToxicFrog> | (I am skeptical, possibly it just asks SHODAN what the user is doing and the mere existence of the ring buffer is a cunning deception to foil me) |
| 03:35 | <@ToxicFrog> | Oh, there it is, at file:0x002d4608 |
| 03:38 | <@ToxicFrog> | ...although, this looks like a busywait. |
| 03:38 | <@ToxicFrog> | ...which makes sense if SS1 is heavily interrupt-driven, which it seems to be. |
| 03:38 | < McMartin> | It's a DOS program. |
| 03:39 | < McMartin> | Interrupts are the closest it gets to pre-emptive multitasking. |
| 03:41 | <@ToxicFrog> | Nod. |
| 03:42 | < McMartin> | This also means that a lot of DOS programs were behaving more like modern-OS applications than Win 3.1 or MacOS programs were. |
| 03:51 | <@ToxicFrog> | ...it is a bad sign when you say "chart refs from function" and it thinks for half a minute, then hands you a digraph that is a solid ball of darkness at any zoom level that fits on screen. |
| 03:52 | < McMartin> | Heh. |
| 03:52 | < McMartin> | objc_msgSend go~ |
| 03:52 | <@ToxicFrog> | I would love to have the source code for this thing. |
| 03:53 | <@ToxicFrog> | Failing that, I'd love to be able to ask one of the devs "hey, did you use a table of function pointers for the keyboard event handling, or a decision tree?" |
| 03:53 | < Pinkhair> | why can't you? |
| 03:53 | | * McMartin heads home. |
| 03:54 | <@ToxicFrog> | ...good question. |
| 03:54 | <@ToxicFrog> | Hmm. Lead programmer was Doug Church. |
| 03:55 | <@ToxicFrog> | ...he works for EA now, oh dear. |
| 03:59 | <@ToxicFrog> | Ok, the answer is "because I cannot find their contact info" |
| 04:05 | <@ToxicFrog> | Hah! |
| 04:05 | <@ToxicFrog> | Found Marc leBlanc's email address |
| 04:42 | <@ToxicFrog> | I could proceed with a first cut at the program with what I have now, by rewriting events before they make it into the queue. |
| 04:42 | <@ToxicFrog> | But I'd rather do it right. |
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| 06:18 | < Vornicus> | Looks like I get to learn TeX. |
| 06:20 | <@ToxicFrog> | I've never used raw TeX, but LaTeX is lightly grilled awesomeness. |
| 06:21 | < Vornicus> | Well, okay, LaTeX, but |
| 06:24 | <@ToxicFrog> | It is, in fact, not that hard. |
| 06:24 | <@ToxicFrog> | Although I do recommend a good IDE; I've been using Kile. |
| 06:24 | < Vornicus> | Right, but I can never seem to find the command I want. |
| 06:24 | < Vornicus> | the canonical TeX IDE for Mac is called "Texshop" |
| 06:25 | <@ToxicFrog> | Aah |
| 06:25 | | Kazriko [kaz@Nightstar-e09690fa.client.bresnan.net] has quit [[NS] Quit: Leaving] |
| 06:25 | <@ToxicFrog> | As far as finding commands goes, I tend to search Kile's autocomplete, http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/LaTeX, and #latex on freenode in that order. |
| 06:26 | < Vornicus> | Also my needs include being able to draw graphs. |
| 06:29 | | * Vornicus is waiting for the 1 GB of latex libraries to download. |
| 06:32 | | AnnoDomini [annodomini@Nightstar-77358533.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #code |
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| 06:39 | | Derakon is now known as Derakon[AFK] |
| 06:39 | <@ToxicFrog> | So, I sent email to Marc LeBlanc asking about SS1's input subsystem |
| 06:40 | <@ToxicFrog> | He is in fact the guy who wrote the input stuff for all the LGS DOS-era games. |
| 06:41 | <@ToxicFrog> | SS1 has an actual windowing system, with keyboard and mouse events getting passed down a heirarchy of widgets which have function pointers for event callbacks. |
| 06:41 | <@ToxicFrog> | So I pretty much need to find all of the widgets that can respond to keyboard input in-game and bastardize their callback tables. |
| 06:42 | < Tarinaky> | What's this in aid of? |
| 06:43 | <@ToxicFrog> | Letting people who aren't me remap the controls in SS1. |
| 06:43 | <@ToxicFrog> | Adding MP3 music support to Total Annihilation is looking really attractive right about now~ |
| 06:44 | < Tarinaky> | Is this a homework assignment? |
| 06:44 | < Tarinaky> | Or just the fun of it? |
| 06:44 | <@ToxicFrog> | The latter. |
| 06:44 | | * Tarinaky is a nosy bugger. |
| 06:44 | < Tarinaky> | Ahh. |
| 06:44 | <@ToxicFrog> | My homework at the moment consists of simulating router networks and determining what the performance implications of the Lua bindings for Pilot are. |
| 06:45 | < Tarinaky> | Yeah. The grand tradition of doing any work except the work you need to be doing. |
| 06:45 | < Tarinaky> | It's just not procrastination if you don't work at it. |
| 06:46 | <@ToxicFrog> | Oh, I finished the router networks earlier today. |
| 06:46 | < Tarinaky> | Okay. I'll just shut up then. |
| 06:47 | <@ToxicFrog> | The funny thing about the Pilot stuff is that when it wasn't my homework, I was working on it obsessively~ |
| 06:47 | < Pinkhair> | naturally |
| 06:49 | | * Rhamphoryncus ponders forking firefox and fixing the damn image memory leak himself |
| 06:55 | < Rhamphoryncus> | They've been punting it since 2003, so I doubt there'd be much point with a follow up |
| 07:01 | | You're now known as TheWatcher |
| 07:40 | < SmithKurosaki> | Argh AVL trees ;.; |
| 07:40 | < SmithKurosaki> | (Trying to figure out how to delete a node that is in the middle of the tree |
| 07:40 | < SmithKurosaki> | (And then rebalance) |
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| 15:53 | < gnolam> | http://www.savagechickens.com/2009/12/tuesday.html |
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| 16:57 | | Derakon[work] [Derakon@Nightstar-d44d635e.ucsf.edu] has joined #code |
| 16:57 | < Derakon[work]> | So it turns out one of the reasons I've been having problems with building the microscope program is that I've been using the wrong version of Visual Studio. |
| 16:57 | < Derakon[work]> | Apparently if you want to build a project against Python, you have to use the version of Visual Studio that Python was built against! |
| 16:58 | < Derakon[work]> | Which is 2003, not 2008. |
| 16:58 | < Derakon[work]> | I hate building on Windows. |
| 17:00 | | Rhamphoryncus [rhamph@Nightstar-a62bd960.abhsia.telus.net] has joined #code |
| 17:03 | < Alek> | pfft |
| 17:07 | <@ToxicFrog> | Derakon[work]: mingw, yo |
| 17:08 | | * TheWatcher utterly seconds TF |
| 17:09 | < Derakon[work]> | I'm just sick of dealing with build issues in general. |
| 17:09 | < Derakon[work]> | Crap like that is why I switched to interpreted languages, dammit! |
| 17:09 | < Derakon[work]> | Well, and I'm sick of dealing with Windows. |
| 17:10 | < Derakon[work]> | But I don't get to start playing with moving to Linux until the new computer arrives, and even then blocking out time to use the microscope is...difficult. |
| 17:12 | | * ToxicFrog nods |
| 17:13 | | * Derakon[work] eyes the makefile that was previously used with VS 2003 to make the cockpit program. |
| 17:13 | < Derakon[work]> | It includes the line "PRCOMMON=y:/code/PriithonSrc/common" |
| 17:14 | <@TheWatcher> | What you need to do is write a simulation of the microscope so you don't need time on it~ |
| 17:14 | < Derakon[work]> | "Y:"?! |
| 17:14 | < Derakon[work]> | TW: right, I'd love to. |
| 17:14 | < Derakon[work]> | That would require mocking up a crapton of equipment though. |
| 17:15 | < Derakon[work]> | Lessee...cockpit talks to DSP, Nano, Drill, the 488 ND wheel, the power buttons, and the remote control. |
| 17:18 | < Vornicus-Latens> | Der: it is common for network shares to have high letter names. |
| 17:18 | < Derakon[work]> | Ah hah. |
| 17:18 | < Vornicus-Latens> | And you can assign any letter you want, so. |
| 17:18 | < Derakon[work]> | So instead of having to track down the files on the old build computer (which is still in use), I get to find out what network share was being referred to. |
| 17:20 | <@ToxicFrog> | Using mingw/msys will (hopefully) alleviate some of the pain, though |
| 17:20 | <@ToxicFrog> | Augh, campus wireless |
| 17:20 | <@ToxicFrog> | I typed that out five minutes ago |
| 17:20 | < Derakon[work]> | Heh. |
| 17:20 | < Derakon[work]> | Correct me if I'm wrong, but mingw is basically gcc on Windows, right? |
| 17:21 | <@ToxicFrog> | Pretty much. And msys sits on top of it and provides make, bash, coreutils, and whatnot so you can use makefiles/configure/etc. |
| 17:21 | < Derakon[work]> | So what it saves me is having to deal with the VS2003 UI...but on the flipside, I'll probably have to rebuild all of my dependencies with it since apparently what you build with makes a significant difference. |
| 17:21 | <@ToxicFrog> | ...aah. |
| 17:21 | < Derakon[work]> | (Maybe not! I don't know!) |
| 17:23 | < Derakon[work]> | Also, I hate the Windows shell, since it doesn't behave the way I expect. |
| 17:23 | <@ToxicFrog> | God, yes. |
| 17:23 | <@ToxicFrog> | ...although that's really easy to fix; cygwin and msys both come with bash and rxvt. |
| 17:23 | <@ToxicFrog> | Unless you're relying on batchfiles, anyways. |
| 17:24 | < Derakon[work]> | Batch files are used to run the various programs, but that's not a huge deal. |
| 17:25 | <@ToxicFrog> | So, install one of those, now you have a decent shell and there's no obligation to use that compiler. |
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| 17:32 | < Derakon[work]> | Hrm...for purposes of building, actually, all I really need is a Windows machine to work on. |
| 17:33 | < Derakon[work]> | Since I know, from experience, that you can run the program without connecting to any of the other systems; it'll just show you the UI and not let you do anything with it. |
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| 18:19 | < McMartin> | Derakon: As long as your DLL boundaries are C, MinGW and MSVC can be mixed. |
| 18:19 | < Derakon[work]> | McM: but apparently, MSVC can't be mixed with itself -- so I'm unconvinced that I can mix MinGW and MSVC. |
| 18:20 | < Derakon[work]> | (That is, I can't use VS2008 to build against Python that was built with VS2003) |
| 18:23 | < McMartin> | ... what are your 2008 switches? |
| 18:23 | < McMartin> | I've personally mixed 2008, 2003, and MinGW all at once. |
| 18:23 | < McMartin> | In particular, /GL (whole-program optimization) needs to be off, and you can't have C++ stuff leaving. |
| 18:24 | < Derakon[work]> | Keep in mind that I have very little experience with VS... |
| 18:24 | < Derakon[work]> | What do you mean by "C++ stuff leaving"? |
| 18:27 | < McMartin> | If you're exporting a function in a dll that takes, say, a std::string as an argument, you can't mix. |
| 18:27 | < McMartin> | Or returns one. |
| 18:28 | < Derakon[work]> | Okay, I'm building an application here, not a library, so I don't think that should be a problem. |
| 18:28 | < McMartin> | Oh. |
| 18:28 | < Derakon[work]> | The app depends on WX, Python, and Numpy. |
| 18:28 | < McMartin> | Right, but if *theirs* do - and wx's certainly does - you can't mix |
| 18:29 | < Derakon[work]> | Whoopie. |
| 18:39 | < MyCatSchemes> | I could solve so many problems if I just went back in time and force Bjarne to standardise the name mangling scheme. |
| 18:39 | < MyCatSchemes> | *forced, oopsy. |
| 18:40 | < McMartin> | You'd have to also force object representation mechanisms. |
| 18:42 | < MyCatSchemes> | Doesn't everyone represent C++ objects in so similar a manner to each other that that would not have actually limited anyone? |
| 18:43 | < McMartin> | I don't believe so, especially one multiple inheritence comes in. |
| 18:43 | < McMartin> | But that's not really the point. |
| 18:43 | < Derakon[work]> | Doesn't multiple inheritance basically FUBAR everything anyway? |
| 18:43 | < McMartin> | If you're exporting std::string, there is no reason to believe each guy's libc is field-compatible. |
| 18:43 | < McMartin> | Derakon: Not anymore, unless you expect it to work like a C struct and are violating type safety. |
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| 19:12 | < Derakon[work]> | Dammit...I don't mind people reserving time on the microscope to do research, but I wish they would actually use the microscope if they're going to. |
| 19:13 | < Derakon[work]> | And cancel their reservation if they aren't! |
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| 19:29 | | * TheWatcher stabs little endian systems |
| 19:30 | <@TheWatcher> | Bloody things are an Abomination unto Nuggan |
| 19:31 | < Derakon[work]> | I dunno; those sound like they're right up Nuggan's alley. |
| 19:31 | < Derakon[work]> | You really shouldn't use such a prissy god for badmouthing impractical things. |
| 19:33 | <@TheWatcher> | hm, point. |
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| 20:00 | < EvilDarkLord> | Is there some simple tool for making a command cut off automatically after x seconds? |
| 20:00 | < EvilDarkLord> | (In Unix) |
| 20:01 | < EvilDarkLord> | I could use one when I'm leaving some tests running overnight. |
| 20:04 | <@TheWatcher> | hm. You could start the process in the background, sleep, and then kill $! |
| 20:05 | <@TheWatcher> | $! contains the pid of the last backgrounded process |
| 20:06 | < EvilDarkLord> | Well, I'd like to start running the next command once it finishes. |
| 20:07 | < EvilDarkLord> | So even if it only takes 30 seconds and not my cutoff of 10 minutes, I could keep going with other commands. |
| 20:07 | < EvilDarkLord> | In which case I think kill $! would potentially murder the next command. |
| 20:08 | <@TheWatcher> | Yeah, that's quite a bit more complicated I think |
| 20:09 | < McMartin> | Background it, store $! in a variable? |
| 20:10 | < McMartin> | Kill that variable at the appropriate time? |
| 20:13 | < EvilDarkLord> | Yeah, that works. |
| 20:14 | < EvilDarkLord> | Thanks. Odd that there's no tool out there for it that you elders know of directly. |
| 20:16 | < McMartin> | That doesn't give you, I don't think, the wakeup call you wanted if it finishes early, though. |
| 20:16 | < McMartin> | Unless you've got a separate process for that, I guess. |
| 20:16 | < EvilDarkLord> | Could I just background the killer process too? |
| 20:17 | < EvilDarkLord> | Or does that process then try to kill itself? |
| 20:18 | <@TheWatcher> | You could start your process in the background, start a killer process in the background passing it the pid of the process to kill, and then wait on the pid of your process. |
| 20:19 | <@TheWatcher> | That should let you continue as soon as the process is either done or killed... and you could probably even nicely kill off the killer process if it is still running before proceeding at that point too |
| 20:19 | < EvilDarkLord> | Right, that sounds sensible. How do I wait for the process? |
| 20:20 | <@TheWatcher> | wait $pid |
| 20:20 | < EvilDarkLord> | Oh, bash command. That'd explain why there was no manual entry for it. |
| 20:22 | < EvilDarkLord> | Anyway, thanks. I'll be off for a bit, pizza to eat, then return to poke somebody who's still awake with my pastebin'd code :) |
| 20:22 | <@TheWatcher> | Enjoy |
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| 21:49 | < Rhamphoryncus> | So.. for all my grumbling last night, swearing at bug reports and bug search engines, downloading and building firefox.. now that I got to test it.. it's fixed. It no longer leaks gigs from images |
| 21:50 | < Rhamphoryncus> | Completely bloody fixed |
| 21:53 | <@TheWatcher> | Well, it's fixed in your build, whether it'll be fixed in an official build down the road is another matter~ |
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| 22:01 | | * gnolam ponders refraction. |
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| 22:43 | < Rhamphoryncus> | Bah, it was using 200 megs of X pixmap memoroy :( |
| 22:43 | < Rhamphoryncus> | memory* |
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| --- Log closed Wed Dec 02 00:00:31 2009 |