| --- Log opened Wed Aug 26 00:00:46 2009 |
| 00:02 | <@SmithKurosaki> | Ask TF |
| 00:03 | <@SmithKurosaki> | I would, but I have never played, and well, I want to run my own before taking care of someone else's |
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| 01:46 | | * Derakon idly ponders how hard it'd be to make a networked-board-game engine. |
| 01:47 | <@McMartin> | This hard: http://www.volity.net/ |
| 01:47 | <@Derakon> | Well, yes, if I didn't want to reinvent the wheel. |
| 01:48 | <@McMartin> | Well, that one was "About four guys about a year" |
| 01:48 | <@Derakon> | It doesn't seem like they've done anything with it since I last used it. |
| 01:48 | <@Derakon> | At least not along the lines of adding new games. |
| 01:49 | <@McMartin> | Yeah, nobody's written any |
| 01:49 | <@McMartin> | If I had free time I'd try to implement Martian Chess for it |
| 01:50 | <@Derakon> | I was thinking about Puerto Rico and Power Grid myself. |
| 01:51 | <@McMartin> | Martian Chess is one of those "here, try this, it will make your brain leak out your ears" games. |
| 01:51 | <@SmithKurosaki> | o.0 |
| 01:53 | | * Derakon eyes the Wikipedia article. |
| 01:53 | <@Derakon> | Yes, I can see how that would happen. |
| 01:56 | <@McMartin> | It's also amusing because 2P and 4P are completely different games. |
| 01:56 | <@McMartin> | 2P is a game about defending pieces by ensuring that attacking them will lead to a mighty counterattack. |
| 01:56 | <@McMartin> | In 4P, if you have a massive bloodbath with another player you both win |
| 01:57 | <@Derakon> | Because you rack up points faster than the other two opponents, and the game ends when one player runs out of pieces, which can easily be a victory condition for that player. |
| 01:57 | <@McMartin> | Yup. |
| 01:57 | <@McMartin> | You're scored based on captures you make, which intrinsically involve *you* giving up a piece |
| 01:58 | <@Derakon> | How much have you played this game? |
| 01:58 | <@McMartin> | Once with each player count~ |
| 02:12 | | * Derakon ponders a tunnel feature that "grows" limbs of terrain out of the walls. |
| 02:12 | <@McMartin> | Graftals? |
| 02:12 | | * Derakon looks the term up. |
| 02:12 | <@Derakon> | I was thinking less tree-like and more "pseudo-random walk"-like. |
| 02:13 | <@Derakon> | Maybe if you took only one of the options at each branchpoint in this diagram, say: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Graftal7.png |
| 02:18 | <@Derakon> | The basic goal is to cut across most of a tunnel / divide up a room into sections. |
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| 07:27 | <@gnolam> | AnnoDomini: http://photoshopdisasters.blogspot.com/2009/08/microsoft-poland-at-least-they-le ft.html |
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| 07:32 | <@AnnoDomini> | ... |
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| 13:27 | < gnolaptop> | "I am invincible! Tremble, mortals" |
| 13:29 | < gnolaptop> | (Actual answer to the question "How would you classify your programming skills?" on the electronic survey my lecturer is performing right now) |
| 13:29 | < Tarinaky> | Lol. |
| 13:29 | < Tarinaky> | I'd be so tempted to tick that just for the lulz. |
| 13:30 | < gnolaptop> | Right now, it's OpenGL/GLSL etc. The options there range from "1. Never heard of it to" to "5. I can hack it in my sleep". |
| 13:36 | < gnolaptop> | "How do you place the camera in P with the angle V?" |
| 13:36 | < Tarinaky> | Eh. Not as funny as the first thing. |
| 13:36 | <@AnnoDomini> | Very carefully. |
| 13:37 | < gnolaptop> | "1. gluLookAt. 2. glTranslate to P, glRotate by V. 3. glRotate with -V, glTranslate to -P. 4. It was something to do with a change of bases." |
| 13:50 | < gnolaptop> | "Time warp. No, it has NOTHING to do with Rocky Horror." |
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| 14:36 | <@MyCatVerbs> | gnolam: is "register a vertex shader for the coordinate transform" a valid answer? |
| 14:37 | <@MyCatVerbs> | AIUI, modern implementations do roughly that anyway. Implement your requests for T&L and other old fixed-function effects using the shader units, I mean. |
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| 15:51 | <@gnolam> | No, since 1) it wasn't on the list and 2) the whole point was to find out if you understood the order of transformations. |
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| 15:55 | <@gnolam> | (Also, you still use the regular "camera" ops with vertex shaders (well, there's a good chance you construct your own matrix, but that was true for the pre-shader era as well). Then you just toss a * gl_ModelViewMatrix somewhere in your vertex shader.) |
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| 16:29 | < Chi> | wow, it's a lamer. |
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| 18:28 | < Janus> | *whew* ... redid the entire c++ lexing thinger back up to phase 3. Turns everything into preproccessing tokens. I need to find some test scripts to feed it to make sure I'm done. |
| 18:30 | | * Janus has been feeding it itself so far. |
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| 19:02 | <@gnolam> | What are you working on? |
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| 19:10 | < Janus> | c++ parser. :D |
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| 19:13 | < Vornicus> | Janus: why are you doing this anyway? |
| 19:16 | < Janus> | It's an excuse to learn the dank and ungodly cranies of c++. And if I finish, I can use it for an idlemmo thingy. |
| 19:18 | < Janus> | Plus, I like to waste my time. 8B |
| 19:32 | < Janus> | I has screenshot of what it can do if ya wanna see~ |
| 19:33 | < Vornicus> | I do indeed. |
| 19:33 | <@ToxicFrog> | "idlemmo thingy"? |
| 19:34 | <@Derakon> | Sounds like IdleRPG, only an MMO. |
| 19:34 | <@McMartin> | Is IdleRPG like Progress Quest? |
| 19:35 | < Vornicus> | McM: sort of, yes, except it's an IRC thing. |
| 19:35 | <@Derakon> | You gain levels based on your ability to sit in an IRC channel and not say anything. |
| 19:35 | < Janus> | Folks make robot thingies that're controlled by c++ scripts, which can access motor and sensor values. The physical thing would be in box2D and the script would be subject to memory or speed limitations that can be upgraded. |
| 19:35 | <@Derakon> | Speaking and actions are punished by increased time to the next level. |
| 19:36 | < Vornicus> | Stupid question. |
| 19:36 | <@McMartin> | Janus: Hm, that sounds like P/A/C-Robots |
| 19:36 | < Vornicus> | Why would you do this in C++? |
| 19:36 | <@gnolam> | Janus: For a moment there, I read that emoticon as "88". And was sort of wondering when you turned nazi. :) |
| 19:37 | < Janus> | Because I wanted to write a parser for it anywho. So I guess I could kill two birds with one stone this way. |
| 19:37 | <@McMartin> | This is, or should be, a limited parser. |
| 19:37 | <@McMartin> | C++ is... not an easy language to parse. |
| 19:37 | <@McMartin> | By which I mean it took almost 10 years for a fully compliant frontend to appear. |
| 19:38 | <@McMartin> | If you use the subset of C++ that is secretly Java you'll have a much easier time of it as a first project, I suspect. |
| 19:39 | < Vornicus> | For one thing Lua is just plain better for embedded stuff. |
| 19:39 | < Janus> | I'm not going to include everything, nyah. So I probably can't incorporate templates or function pointers, though, something tells me representing them would be easier than actually using them. 8x |
| 19:39 | <@McMartin> | You'd actually be wrong~ |
| 19:39 | | * McMartin goes to look up that one horrible bit. |
| 19:40 | < Vornicus> | Heh. Function pointers are one of those things that back when I first started programming, I wondered why the hell you would use them... and now I find them indespensible. |
| 19:40 | < Janus> | Can I has voice for screenshots? |
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| 19:40 | <@Janus> | WHOA |
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| 19:41 | <@Derakon> | Vorn: aye. |
| 19:41 | <@Derakon> | It's amazing how being able to treat program logic symbolically is useful. |
| 19:41 | <@Derakon> | Er, amazing how useful being able to treat program logic symbolically is. |
| 19:41 | <@Janus> | http://www.clairvoire.com/images/TokenDumpEww.png |
| 19:41 | <@McMartin> | Aha, here it is |
| 19:41 | <@McMartin> | (Function pointers in the absence of classes are actually pretty easy to represent) |
| 19:41 | <@McMartin> | This was a template thing |
| 19:42 | <@McMartin> | template <class C> foo(y) { C::iterator *x; for (x = y.items(); ... } |
| 19:42 | <@McMartin> | This is illegal |
| 19:43 | <@McMartin> | Because it parses "C::iterator *x" not as "there is a pointer named 'x' of type C::iterator" |
| 19:43 | <@McMartin> | But as "compute C::iterator, which is a static field of C, multiplied by some undefined variable 'x', and throw away the value" |
| 19:43 | <@McMartin> | So you have to put a "typename" keyword before "C::iterator" |
| 19:44 | <@McMartin> | And the language is generally full of tons of ambiguity and overloading. |
| 19:44 | <@Derakon> | Thus making it like many real languages~ |
| 19:45 | <@McMartin> | If your end goal is a robots/omega tank kind of game, there's a cheat, of course |
| 19:45 | <@Janus> | Oh? |
| 19:46 | <@McMartin> | Each robot becomes a DLL matching a C interface, and there's a "run one step" function that your engine calls |
| 19:46 | <@McMartin> | Then they write it in whatever language they want, compile to a DLL that exports that function, and your engine links it dynamically at run-time |
| 19:46 | <@Derakon> | That's more or less what I'm doing in Jetblade. |
| 19:47 | <@Derakon> | Except without the compile-to-DLL step, so everything has to be written in Python. |
| 19:47 | <@McMartin> | This is a cheat for an omega-tank game because the classic game formulation says that you only get to run one instruction |
| 19:47 | <@McMartin> | Tighter code means a faster, more responsive AI |
| 19:47 | <@McMartin> | So it's usually compiled to a bytecode of some kind and then they each get to run one instruction in turn. |
| 19:48 | <@Derakon> | See also RoboWar. http://robowar.sourceforge.net/RoboWar5/index.html |
| 19:51 | <@Janus> | I seen something like that on SF. I think the language they used was Java, and they used tanks, but it was about the same. |
| 19:55 | <@Derakon> | RoboWar and Core Wars are the first examples of the type, to my knowledge. |
| 19:55 | <@Derakon> | (In Core Wars you write a program that attempts to overwrite all the other programs in memory without itself being overwritten) |
| 20:15 | | * Derakon ponders the design for these "grown walls" he's thinking of. |
| 20:16 | <@Derakon> | I think I'm coming close to a limit past which new shapes of rooms won't really add interest, and I'll start needing to add new graphics of various kinds. |
| 20:16 | <@Derakon> | So for example, it'd be neat if the "grown walls" were a tree in the jungle zone and a catwalk in the tech zone... |
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| --- Log closed Thu Aug 27 00:00:01 2009 |