| --- Log opened Mon Jul 27 00:00:48 2009 |
| 00:05 | | You're now known as TheWatcher[T-2] |
| 00:10 | | You're now known as TheWatcher[zZzZ] |
| 00:23 | < Reiv> | http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0ApoY4gDY_P02dDFGSlRySFhCOWZkeFloTFhpVWtf MXc&hl=en - what bit of this math is wrong? |
| 00:28 | | * Reiv pokes Vornicus and McMartin, who knew their stuff. |
| 00:29 | <@SmithKurosaki> | Wow, that was an impressive quit message |
| 00:31 | <@Vornicus> | I misspoke, it should be /t instead of /2t or /2 in the denominator. |
| 00:32 | <@Vornicus> | also if that distance is supposed to be in km you're going to want 200000 |
| 00:32 | < Reiv> | Er. I was trying to calculate the time it'd take for a shell to go from orbit to planetside. You mentioned LEO, which is apparently 2000m? |
| 00:33 | < Reiv> | ... no, wait, I missed a k. Oops~ |
| 00:33 | < Reiv> | Okay, that would start to make a tad more sense. |
| 00:34 | <@Vornicus> | 200 to 2000 km |
| 00:34 | < Reiv> | We'll go with 2000km if only 'cuz you probably don't really want to go further into a gravwell than you have to. |
| 00:35 | <@Vornicus> | Point. |
| 00:35 | <@McMartin> | SmithKurosaki: That quit message used to hang in the MIT comp sci labs, it seems |
| 00:36 | <@SmithKurosaki> | Heh |
| 00:36 | <@SmithKurosaki> | It's pretty funny |
| 00:37 | <@SmithKurosaki> | (I understand about half of it) |
| 00:37 | < Reiv> | Slow down and read it phonetically and it's not too hard. |
| 00:37 | <@McMartin> | It's mostly fake German, yes. |
| 00:37 | <@SmithKurosaki> | Yea |
| 00:37 | <@Consul> | And that is not the original sign. |
| 00:37 | <@SmithKurosaki> | I understand a bit of real German, so |
| 00:38 | <@Consul> | That one is updated for Internet times. |
| 00:38 | <@Consul> | The original was about mainframes. |
| 00:38 | <@SmithKurosaki> | Heh |
| 00:38 | <@Consul> | http://www.skepticfiles.org/cowtext/100/actunghu.htm |
| 00:38 | <@Vornicus> | As you can see it gets closer to "fire it directly at the target" the faster you want it there. |
| 00:39 | <@ToxicFrog> | "Attention! All read! The Internet is not for finger-clicking and GIF-grabbing. It's easy to drop packets at the routers and overload the backbone with spamming and me-tooing. It's not for ### ###. The mouse-clicking tourists should keep their hands in their pockets; relax and watch the blinking cursor." |
| 00:39 | <@Vornicus> | "working by stupidheads" |
| 00:39 | <@McMartin> | That's actually modified from the original. |
| 00:40 | <@McMartin> | And the correct calque of "dummkopf" is "numbskull", not "stupidhead". |
| 00:40 | <@ToxicFrog> | Yes, but I don't have the original handy :) |
| 00:40 | <@Consul> | I just linked to it. |
| 00:40 | <@SmithKurosaki> | What McM said |
| 00:41 | <@SmithKurosaki> | Original was linked TF |
| 00:41 | | * Reiv does a spot of research on the yeild of high explosives. |
| 00:41 | <@McMartin> | http://www.catb.org/~esr/jargon/html/B/blinkenlights.html also has the countersign in Much Better English than the German in that. |
| 00:42 | <@Consul> | Ah, THAT's the page I wanted, but couldn't find off-hand. |
| 00:43 | | * Consul wonders how long it would take to build a clavichord. |
| 00:44 | < Reiv> | augh. Yields are measured in /calories/. |
| 00:47 | <@gnolam> | What yields? |
| 00:48 | <@gnolam> | As long as you can get thermal/pressure etc effects as percentages of the impact energy, you're good to go. Neglecting air resistance (which one probably can't, in this case, but anyhoo) it's trivial to calculate the impact energy itself in joules. |
| 00:49 | <@Vornicus> | It should be pointed out that your shell will be damn powerful even as just a kinetic kill. |
| 00:51 | | * Reiv is trying to get a rough idea of how much Blam is required to match, say, a conventional bomb. |
| 00:52 | <@gnolam> | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TNT_equivalent |
| 00:52 | < Reiv> | Size thereof negotiable; I see mention that the modern US stuff carries ~20kilos of explosive, but how much energy that entails is unspecified. |
| 00:55 | < Reiv> | Baha! 89 kilos ~ 439MJ. |
| 00:56 | < Reiv> | So we'll call it 400MJ as a target figure. (I was mostly looking in terms of 'what order of magnitude am I looking at here?') |
| 00:57 | <@gnolam> | So you're going for something the size of an MRLS rocket then? |
| 00:57 | <@gnolam> | +warhead |
| 00:58 | < Reiv> | I actually nicked that off the 500pounder bombs the US uses, via a little wikihunting. |
| 00:58 | < Reiv> | Well, a slightly old one anyway. The modern mixes are worried about collateral and get Complicated accordingly. |
| 00:59 | < Reiv> | And I figure it's as good a figure as any for "Hey guys! Have a BLAM up yer nose!" |
| 01:00 | < Reiv> | So... E = M*V. Thus M = E/V, yes? |
| 01:03 | < Reiv> | No, E = M*V^2, isn't it |
| 01:03 | | * Reiv hasn't done physics in far too long~ |
| 01:04 | <@gnolam> | E = (M*V^2)/2 |
| 01:05 | <@Consul> | If you're after what I think you're after, it's 1/2MV^2 |
| 01:05 | <@Consul> | Or what gnolam just said. |
| 01:05 | < Reiv> | ... why are we dividing by 2? |
| 01:05 | <@McMartin> | It's the integral of force over distance. |
| 01:06 | <@Consul> | Because E is an integration. |
| 01:06 | < Reiv> | augh, integrals, okay |
| 01:07 | < Reiv> | Aha! ... O-kay. |
| 01:07 | <@gnolam> | Anyway. Remember that the only kinetic energy you need to calculate is for the orbital velocity. |
| 01:08 | <@gnolam> | For the orbit->ground velocity, it's just good old m*g*h. |
| 01:08 | <@gnolam> | Err |
| 01:08 | <@gnolam> | s/velocity/energy |
| 01:08 | <@McMartin> | Yeah. |
| 01:08 | <@McMartin> | Force (mg) * distance (h). |
| 01:08 | < Reiv> | I don't think we're even calculating that part. >_> |
| 01:10 | < Reiv> | Curosity with the current (hilariously optimistic) math: The rough order of magnitude for an equivalence to a 500lb bomb, taking ten seconds to go from a 2000km LEO to groundside, is 10km/second, with a 0.1kg projectile. |
| 01:10 | <@gnolam> | ... ten seconds? :o |
| 01:10 | < Reiv> | 'Railgun', anyone?~ |
| 01:11 | < Reiv> | gnolam: Yeah, I'm a little cagey about the math at the moment, it sounds a little, um, off. Gravity can't be having /that/ much of a boost, surely. |
| 01:12 | <@Vornicus> | That seems off. |
| 01:12 | < Reiv> | Oh, wait. It was calculating for a 200km LEO, not a 2000 one. |
| 01:12 | <@Vornicus> | Especially seeing at we should be going 200km/second anyway. |
| 01:13 | <@Vornicus> | or 20km/second, from 200km. |
| 01:13 | < Reiv> | ...or not. Hrn. |
| 01:13 | < Reiv> | Vorn: I am given to believe that the bit of Arcane Math you & McM did incorporates a gravity acceleration? Or is that pretty much negligable at this sort of speed? |
| 01:15 | <@gnolam> | So... ridiculous^W relativistic speeds then. That means you need the relativistic KE formula instead. |
| 01:15 | | * Reiv fiddles, gets better answers after a couple tweakings and standardisations of units to avoid Stupid NASA Mistakes. |
| 01:16 | < Reiv> | ...Yeees, I think I'm going to need to start using the relativistic one. |
| 01:16 | | * Reiv 's corrected math suggests 100km/second. O.o |
| 01:18 | < Reiv> | Vorn, would you care to doublecheck I've not Screwed The Math somewhere? http://tinyurl.com/l2d7dd |
| 01:18 | < Reiv> | (And others too, but Vorn helped me before~) |
| 01:19 | <@Vornicus> | Okay, remove the 2 from the ultimate denominator. |
| 01:19 | <@Vornicus> | v = (d - at^2/2)/t |
| 01:19 | < Reiv> | Aha |
| 01:19 | < Reiv> | (You can edit directly, if I got this thing right, btw) |
| 01:20 | | * Reiv stares at the relativistic equation, admires the pretty letters and wonders /whut ze fok/ they actually mean. |
| 01:21 | <@SmithKurosaki> | v = velocity, d = dist a = acc, t = time. Or are you talking about something else? |
| 01:22 | <@Vornicus> | that's right. |
| 01:22 | <@Vornicus> | And we're nowhere /near/ relativistic velocities here. |
| 01:22 | < Reiv> | I was wondering whether you needed relativistics for 100km/second, yeah. |
| 01:23 | < Reiv> | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Momentum#Momentum_in_relativistic_mechanics |
| 01:23 | <@Vornicus> | you're at 0.01c at 3000km/s |
| 01:23 | < Reiv> | Also: At these speeds, how much effect is the gravity having, Vorn? |
| 01:28 | < Reiv> | (Idle note: We're asking 100km/second. The M1 Abrams actually manages about 1.7km/second.) |
| 01:29 | <@Vornicus> | Very little. |
| 01:31 | < Reiv> | Righto. Convinient; means these numbers remain respectable in ship to ship. |
| 01:43 | <@gnolam> | Reiv: ... no, the M1 Abrams most certainly doesn't. |
| 01:43 | | * Reiv doublechecks the references, then. |
| 01:44 | <@gnolam> | Last I checked, no tank on Earth did Mach 6. :P |
| 01:45 | <@gnolam> | 17 m/s perhaps. |
| 01:45 | <@Consul> | Did you mean 1.7m/sec? |
| 01:45 | <@Consul> | Oh, perhaps 17. A person could feasibly run 1.7 m/s. |
| 01:45 | < Reiv> | Uh, er. |
| 01:46 | <@Consul> | Actually, probably quite easily run. |
| 01:46 | < Reiv> | I was referring to its /gun/. |
| 01:46 | < Reiv> | Given I am doing the math for a hypothetical railgun, etc |
| 01:46 | <@Consul> | Ah, muzzle velocity is a whole other ball of whacks. |
| 01:46 | < Reiv> | Now, if the whole tank could do that, I'd be a tad worried taking it for a drive, or being in the city it was aimed at~ |
| 01:49 | <@gnolam> | Ah. :) |
| 01:55 | <@Consul> | You've just made me realize how much I miss solving physics problems. |
| 01:55 | <@Consul> | Not the dumb problems in the textbooks, mind you. Interesting, real-world stuff. |
| 01:56 | < Reiv> | I find my science fiction fascination /excelent/ for brushing up ones physics |
| 01:58 | <@Consul> | Although I was pleased with myself when I figured out one of the text's advanced problems, which was determining g for a planetary body. I can't remember exactly what the problem gave me, but it involved a clever composition of functions to solve. |
| 01:58 | <@Consul> | Nobody else in the class figured that one out. |
| 02:01 | <@Consul> | Then again, I sometimes felt I was the only one in the class to try while everyone else was phoning it in. |
| 02:03 | <@Consul> | Which wasn't true. There was one other guy really giving a go, and doing pretty well. |
| 02:03 | <@Consul> | It's kinda sad that I remember the numbskulls the best, though. |
| 02:06 | < Reiv> | You get that a bit in schools, though - even at university, where taking Physics 101 is a pre-req for a bunch of other stuff. |
| 02:06 | <@Consul> | Yeah, I'm hoping that the more advanced physics classes will be filled with people who want to be there. |
| 02:06 | <@Consul> | Or at least, with people who think they want to be there. :-) |
| 02:09 | <@Consul> | Well, I can imagine the more advanced physics courses being pre-reqs to things like medical engineering and the like. |
| 02:09 | <@Consul> | Medical imaging tech, etc. |
| 02:10 | < Reiv> | In that respect though, you'd hope they actually enjoyed physics to be there. |
| 02:12 | < Reiv> | You know, if gravity plays little effect... hrn. |
| 02:13 | <@Consul> | My interest is definitely in the physics of musical instruments, but I don't know how to turn that into a job. |
| 02:15 | < Reiv> | Sit in LEO, have a 10second lag time. Sit in Geosync, gave a 15s lagtime. Power on down to 200km, have a 1s lag time... and a spaceship that's only overhead for ten minutes. |
| 02:15 | <@Consul> | Sounds like the last date I went on. |
| 02:16 | < Reiv> | ... I'm simultaneously tempted to ask, and far too scared to do so~ |
| 02:16 | <@Consul> | Heh |
| 02:16 | <@Consul> | No story to tell. Just a dumb joke. |
| 02:20 | | * Reiv was replying likewise, though somewhat botched the delivery. |
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| 05:46 | <@ToxicFrog> | > (sqrt 16) |
| 05:46 | <@ToxicFrog> | 8 1/2 |
| 05:46 | <@ToxicFrog> | I think there's a bug in my code ?? |
| 05:47 | <@SmithKurosaki> | Umm? |
| 05:48 | <@Derakon> | Pffft |
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| 06:04 | <@Vornicus> | Slightly! |
| 06:08 | < Namegduf> | It's a little off. |
| 06:09 | <@Consul> | Eh, just a bit of rounding error. |
| 06:17 | <@ToxicFrog> | > (sqrt 16) |
| 06:17 | <@ToxicFrog> | 4 3433683820292512484657849089281/67762635780343597914988263490310774732975168 |
| 06:18 | <@Derakon> | Is that four point something, or four google? |
| 06:18 | <@Derakon> | Er, googol. |
| 06:24 | <@ToxicFrog> | Four point something. |
| 06:24 | <@ToxicFrog> | It's more readable in drscheme. |
| 06:24 | <@ToxicFrog> | Wish I could figure out how to enable floating point representation, though. |
| 06:24 | <@Derakon> | What algorithm are you using? |
| 06:25 | <@ToxicFrog> | Newtonian successive approximation. |
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| 12:40 | <@Myst> | heyall :-) |
| 12:40 | <@Myst> | does anyone happen to know if I can run some flavor of wine on mac os x, on power pc? |
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| 12:44 | < Namegduf> | I don't think so. |
| 12:44 | < Namegduf> | WINE won't emulate an x86 processor, which is what most Windows software is made for. |
| 12:45 | < Namegduf> | So I think it only works on x86 platforms at all. |
| 12:47 | <@Myst> | bummer. Okey, thanks. |
| 12:47 | | * Myst gives Namegduf peach cobbler |
| 12:47 | | * Namegduf munches. |
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| 17:26 | <@Derakon> | So I have three hours of tech interviews scheduled for today. |
| 17:27 | <@Derakon> | How should I get my brain in gear? |
| 17:31 | <@TheWatcher> | What sort of tech? |
| 17:31 | <@Derakon> | PHP-based ecommerce site. |
| 17:32 | <@Derakon> | 30 minutes with the VP of Engineering, 45 minutes each with two devs, 20 minutes with the CEO. |
| 17:32 | <@Derakon> | So I guess that's not three hours of tech interviews, but yeah. |
| 17:32 | <@TheWatcher> | Hm. Might be an appropriate time to practice chicken sacrificing techniques, then |
| 17:32 | <@Derakon> | :p |
| 17:33 | <@Derakon> | Seriously, should I look up interviewing questions? Review the PHP docs? Work on Jetblade? |
| 17:33 | <@TheWatcher> | Or, I dunno, fiddle around trying to write a mod for phpBB3? That'll get you going on php and databases, anyway... |
| 17:34 | <@Derakon> | I'd rather not touch the PHPBB3 codebase as prep for an interview if I can manage it~ |
| 17:42 | <@TheWatcher> | What, you don't think that getting your head around a kludged, variable-quality, mixed up php project won't prepare you for dealing with questions about ecommerce site software?~ |
| 17:58 | <@Derakon> | The software in question is being rewritten from scratch. |
| 17:59 | <@Derakon> | Since the company previously relied on outsourcing for the technical side. |
| 18:10 | <@ToxicFrog> | They're rewriting it from scratch...in PHP? |
| 18:10 | <@Derakon> | Like it or now, PHP has some of the best support for general-purpose website building. |
| 18:10 | <@Derakon> | If you don't want to use Ruby on Rails, nor develop your own framework for MVC, PHP's the way to go. |
| 18:11 | <@Consul> | Get familiar with Smarty. Those things saved our butt at the ISP. |
| 18:11 | <@Consul> | smarty.php.net I think... |
| 18:11 | <@ToxicFrog> | Derakon: or use Django, or Kepler... |
| 18:12 | <@ToxicFrog> | There's plenty of non-PHP, non-Ruby MVC frameworks out there, and some of them are even good. |
| 18:12 | | * ToxicFrog afks for shower |
| 18:13 | <@Consul> | Yeah, me too. BBIAB |
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| 19:08 | | * Derakon just goes down the list at http://jobsearchtech.about.com/gi/dynamic/offsite.htm?zi=1/XJ/Ya&sdn=jobsearchte ch&cdn=careers&tm=2647&f=00&tt=14&bt=1&bts=1&st=32&zu=http%3A//www.hitequest.com / |
| 19:08 | <@Derakon> | ...I did not notice the URL was so long. Oops. |
| 19:09 | <@gnolam> | Eh, it's not a badly written forum. As long as it's within the message size limit, who cares? |
| 19:10 | <@Derakon> | I do. It's inelegant, especially when the URL contains other URLs. |
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| --- Log closed Mon Jul 27 20:59:32 2009 |
| --- Log opened Mon Jul 27 20:59:36 2009 |
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| 22:40 | <@Consul> | All four of the spray paint arts I tried to do today didn't turn out. I'm trying to find some techniques for atmospheric glows. |
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| 23:28 | <@Consul> | Accidentally stumbled upon a nice planet texture, though. I'll have to see if I can make it work conistently. |
| 23:28 | <@Consul> | consistently* |
| 23:32 | <@SmithKurosaki> | The bi color newspaper one seemed p. cool |
| 23:33 | <@Consul> | The banded ones? |
| 23:33 | <@SmithKurosaki> | Yea |
| 23:33 | <@Consul> | Those do work pretty well, overall. |
| 23:33 | <@SmithKurosaki> | Really nice gas planet look |
| 23:33 | <@SmithKurosaki> | And, it will also come out slightly marbled |
| 23:35 | <@Consul> | I still have no workable way to do atmospheric glows, though. I guess I'll just move on to the next idea. |
| 23:36 | <@SmithKurosaki> | I am not quite sure what you mean |
| 23:37 | <@Consul> | I'm trying to figure out a way to paint atmospheres with spray nozzles that no nothing of subtlety. |
| 23:38 | <@SmithKurosaki> | White spray can held high above the page to allow it to mist? |
| 23:38 | <@Consul> | Makes WAY too large a glow. That's what I tried today. It doesn't look like it's hugging the planet. It just kinda makes it look like it's surrounded by debris. Which might be a cool effect someday, but not now. |
| 23:42 | <@SmithKurosaki> | Hmm idk then |
| 23:47 | | You're now known as TheWatcher[T-2] |
| 23:50 | | You're now known as TheWatcher[zZzZ] |
| 23:54 | <@Consul> | I have a couple of other ideas. |
| 23:54 | <@Consul> | Hopefully, I'll have another sunny day to try them out before winter. :-/ |
| 23:58 | <@Consul> | This summer has royally sucked. |
| 23:59 | <@SmithKurosaki> | Yuo |
| 23:59 | <@SmithKurosaki> | Yup |
| --- Log closed Tue Jul 28 00:00:00 2009 |