| --- Log opened Sun Jun 28 00:00:43 2009 |
| 00:22 | | You're now known as TheWatcher[T-2] |
| 00:24 | | You're now known as TheWatcher[zZzZ] |
| 00:25 | <@ToxicFrog> | Re: HTTP APIs: the luasocket one is decent. It's not nearly as powerful as Curl's, but it's easy to use and suffices for the majority of cases. |
| 00:25 | <@ToxicFrog> | Sadly, it's not a binding for underlying language-agnostic library. |
| 00:32 | | * gnolam sighs. |
| 00:32 | <@gnolam> | What I hear, the explorer in Win7 is the same as in Vista. |
| 00:33 | <@gnolam> | Guess I' |
| 00:33 | <@gnolam> | ll be better off without a computer for the next couple of years then. :P |
| 00:34 | <@McMartin> | It looks roughly the same. |
| 00:34 | <@McMartin> | It doesn't have a web browser jammed into it anymore, though, I don't think. |
| 00:34 | <@gnolam> | But does it actually have a memory? :P |
| 00:35 | <@gnolam> | Vista's explorer is unique in that it's the first computer program in /years/ that's sent me into a blinding berserker rage. |
| 00:35 | <@McMartin> | Hah |
| 00:36 | <@McMartin> | For me that was making NSIS custom dialogs work with it. |
| 00:36 | <@gnolam> | (UI devs: it's not a hard problem. Give the user a chance to say how he wants his folders to be displayed, and then respect that. THAT'S ALL THERE IS TO IT.) |
| 00:36 | <@Derakon> | Gnolam: usually it's libraries and languages that send you frothing, hey? ;) |
| 00:36 | <@gnolam> | Derakon: Excepting SDL, they've only made me grind my teeth down a couple of millimeters. |
| 00:37 | <@gnolam> | Vista's explorer is the only one that's made me reach for my gun safe. |
| 00:43 | <@McMartin> | I'm still not sure what the Hell is up with your SDL experiences, given how many people in this channel picked it up on their own. |
| 00:45 | | * Derakon ponders reworking his "tunnel feature" setup. |
| 00:45 | | gnolam [lenin@Nightstar-1382.A163.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [Quit: Z?] |
| 00:46 | <@Derakon> | Right now it's "load a module, call a function with a specific name in that module". I should rework it to "load a module, instantiate a class defined in that module" like I'm doing with the environmental effects... |
| 00:46 | <@Derakon> | Means reworking 8 files, but better 8 now than like 30 later. |
| 00:47 | <@Derakon> | The main goal here, at least for now, is to allow easy overriding of functionality. |
| 00:47 | <@Derakon> | E.g. a lot of different tunnel types just say "Hey, use the straight-tunnel carving algorithm", so they can just subclass off of that and then not bother defining carveTunnel. |
| 01:33 | <@Derakon> | Refactoring complete! |
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| 02:32 | <@Derakon> | Game's a bit tricky to control when I dial the speed up to 4x normal. >.> |
| 02:35 | <@McMartin> | Heh |
| 02:35 | <@McMartin> | My Sword of the Stars games are also a lot sillier at 4x. |
| 02:35 | <@McMartin> | Or, as one of the other players called it, "Yakety Sax mode" |
| 02:35 | <@Derakon> | Would that make them 16X games? |
| 02:36 | <@McMartin> | Tactical Combat is vaguely RTSy in it. |
| 02:36 | | * Vornicus yawninates. |
| 02:37 | <@Vornicus> | It occurs to me that it is indeed possible to give Samus the speed boost in 3d. |
| 02:37 | <@Vornicus> | You just have to steal it from another game: Sonic. |
| 02:37 | <@McMartin> | (http://hkn.eecs.berkeley.edu/~mcmartin/sots/005_forward_batteries.png for example) |
| 02:37 | <@McMartin> | Vornicus: That only began to work in Secret Rings. |
| 02:37 | <@Derakon> | I should note that the Sonic games are not necessarily a good inspiration for how to handle high-speed gameplay in 3D. ¬.¬ |
| 02:37 | <@McMartin> | And that was, in turn, more or less looted wholesale from a much earlier Sega game: |
| 02:37 | <@McMartin> | Space Harrier. |
| 02:38 | <@Derakon> | Anyway, the actual speed of the speed booster is pretty relative. It's blazingly fast in Super Metroid, but Samus's base speed there is also pretty speedy. In the GBA games she's pretty slow, and the boosted mode is also slower. Given that she's proportionately downright sluggish in the Prime series... |
| 02:39 | <@McMartin> | Yakety Sax speed~ |
| 02:40 | <@Vornicus> | But yeah. Last night I dreamed I could shine spark. I was trying to leap through the ceiling but for some reason I had to backflip to do it. |
| 02:40 | <@Derakon> | Odd. Last night I had a dream where I had to walk a very long distance at about one foot per second. |
| 02:41 | <@Vornicus> | And despite shinespark abilities, I could not for the life of me backflip. |
| 02:41 | <@McMartin> | I have that dream all the time. It usually means that I've managed to bury myself in the comforter and am now having trouble breathing. |
| 02:41 | <@Derakon> | Yeah, I suspect I was overheating. |
| 02:51 | | Vornicus is now known as Vornicus-Latens |
| 03:04 | <@Reiver> | McMartin: Is USD$15 a good price for SoTS? |
| 03:05 | <@Derakon> | IIRC that's the going rate for the game + all expansions. |
| 03:05 | <@McMartin> | That's the sale this weekend. |
| 03:05 | <@Reiver> | (Equally useful: How much did you pay?) |
| 03:05 | <@McMartin> | After this weekend it goes to $39 for game + all expansions, or $30 for game and all but one. |
| 03:05 | | * Derakon mutters, wishes that either the game worked on Macs or he had a Windows box capable of running it. |
| 03:05 | <@McMartin> | I paid $18. |
| 03:06 | <@Reiver> | hn. Okay. |
| 03:06 | <@McMartin> | ($8 for the "all but one", then I'll be paying another $9 for the final expansion.) |
| 03:06 | <@Reiver> | So $15 is a pretty decent price then |
| 03:07 | <@Reiver> | Where is this special? |
| 03:07 | <@McMartin> | Gamersgate |
| 03:07 | <@Reiver> | aha |
| 03:07 | <@Reiver> | It's also on Impulse; am wondering the best place to get it from. |
| 03:08 | <@McMartin> | I had no trouble with GG, but really, it seems like most of these guys are reputable. |
| 03:08 | <@McMartin> | Steam has it too |
| 03:08 | <@Reiver> | hm |
| 03:08 | <@Reiver> | Does GG have its own software management program? |
| 03:09 | <@McMartin> | No; the resulting program looks standalone. |
| 03:09 | <@Reiver> | shiny. |
| 03:14 | < Kazriko> | GG? |
| 03:14 | <@McMartin> | GamersGate |
| 03:15 | | * Kazriko prefers Impulse to the rest... |
| 03:15 | < Kazriko> | But that's because I like Stardock and their DRM policy. |
| 03:23 | < Kazriko> | i probably buy more games off psn though. heh |
| 03:24 | <@McMartin> | GG, Steam, and Impulse are all more or less DRM free, though Steam is the most DRM-y of them. |
| 03:24 | <@McMartin> | GG seems to be "raw download of standalone installer" |
| 03:29 | < Kazriko> | I'm more referring to their drm policy for other games. heh |
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| 04:50 | <@Derakon> | Check it out, a new tunnel type: http://derakon.dyndns.org/~chriswei/games/jbrl/mapgen35a.png |
| 04:51 | <@Derakon> | Hm. Tunnel ceiling's a bit low here... |
| 04:51 | <@Derakon> | I successfully navigated one of the tunnels without my feet touching the ground, but that's nowhere near the same thing as avoiding touching the water. |
| 05:06 | <@Derakon> | Okay, I know productivity isn't measured by the number of checkins you make, but I still think this is a reasonably good day's work: http://code.google.com/p/jetblade/source/list |
| 05:07 | <@Derakon> | Even if two of those are just rerunning "doxygen Doxyfile" and another two are "whoops, I made a mistake in the code I just checked in". |
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| 06:48 | <@Derakon> | Oh, Rhamphorpyncus -- I made Jetblade (my platforming game with procedurally-generated levels) open-source. Check it out: http://code.google.com/p/jetblade/ |
| 06:49 | <@Derakon> | Er, Rhamphoryncus. |
| 06:49 | < Rhamphoryncus> | cool |
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| 09:32 | | You're now known as TheWatcher |
| 09:58 | | * TheWatcher eyes image scaling in SDL, bleghs at SDL_gfx, wonders whatever happened to SDL_resize |
| 09:59 | <@McMartin> | I believe it was folded into the rotozoom function. |
| 09:59 | <@McMartin> | More seriously, if you're doing significant real-time resizings, consider using OpenGL and pasting them onto quads. |
| 09:59 | <@McMartin> | Rotozooming in a framebuffer in software is Seriously Not Cheap. |
| 10:02 | <@TheWatcher> | This works, yes |
| 10:02 | <@TheWatcher> | provided that you're not loading 8MP images |
| 10:02 | <@McMartin> | True. |
| 10:02 | <@McMartin> | I would suggest using ImageMagick for processing 8MP images, tbh |
| 10:03 | <@TheWatcher> | This is for an image viewer, so I need to be able to resize any arbitrary input image on the fly to displayable resolutions |
| 10:03 | | * McMartin nods |
| 10:03 | <@McMartin> | ... Next question: "Why are you using SDL for this instead of something with a real UI library?" |
| 10:04 | <@TheWatcher> | I'm assuming you haven't actually read my LJ? |
| 10:04 | <@McMartin> | Indeed I have not. I'll go check. |
| 10:05 | <@TheWatcher> | And using imagemagick involves temporary files and stuff, which is doable, but eugh |
| 10:05 | <@McMartin> | Mm. Well, doing it twice should be OK. |
| 10:06 | <@TheWatcher> | Yeah, this isn't something I'll be doing every frame. Just when the image is loaded, in a thread off the main loop |
| 10:07 | <@McMartin> | I'd probably set it up as a viewer that takes a local directory full of thumbnails and "normal" scaled stuff, and have a batch program that prefetches and preps it for me. |
| 10:07 | <@McMartin> | In short, making the "temp files" not be temp at all, but instead be a full-blown local cache |
| 10:07 | <@TheWatcher> | so I'm frankly not fussed about speed so much |
| 10:07 | | * McMartin nods |
| 10:10 | <@TheWatcher> | I was vaguely considering a filesystem image cache, but I seriously don't want a second program to go and prefetch |
| 10:11 | <@TheWatcher> | (and, blegh, rotozoom only seems to accept scaling factors, not absolute width and height) |
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| 10:14 | <@TheWatcher> | Also, rotozoom doesn't appear to say aything about whether it uses cubic/bicubic/Lanczos3 for scaling. gah. |
| 10:15 | <@TheWatcher> | I'm guessing none, and it is just linear. Which is not really good enough. |
| 10:19 | <@McMartin> | UQM did its own scaling by hand for that. |
| 10:19 | <@TheWatcher> | I'm thinking of raiding GIMP's code to see how it does its scaling, and whether it can be wrangled into place |
| 10:20 | | * McMartin nods |
| 10:20 | <@McMartin> | QImage or Gtk's equivalent may come in handy =/ |
| 10:20 | <@McMartin> | I imagine the latter is what GIMP uses |
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| 10:26 | <@TheWatcher> | Nope |
| 10:26 | <@TheWatcher> | GIMP has it's own scaling functions, it seems |
| 10:26 | <@TheWatcher> | all in app/paint-funcs/scale-region.* |
| 10:28 | <@TheWatcher> | Hm. I should probably be able to bed these to my will, yes. |
| 10:40 | <@TheWatcher> | Idly, McM, just out of interest, where are you working now? |
| 10:48 | <@TheWatcher> | nevermind, found it. |
| 11:29 | | * McMartin eyebrows. |
| 11:30 | <@McMartin> | I work for a virtualization management company called MokaFive. I haven't been hiding it, but it's not exactly widely advertised either. |
| 11:31 | < simontwo> | is it not possible to iterate over a Java HashMap in linear time? for (String key : hm.keySet()) { hm.get(key) ... } looks kinda scary. |
| 11:32 | <@McMartin> | That is, I believe, linear. |
| 11:32 | <@McMartin> | However, you'd be better served iterating over its entrySet. |
| 11:32 | < simontwo> | I thought both the for loop and the get() are linear. |
| 11:32 | <@McMartin> | HashMap.get() is (amortized) constant time. |
| 11:32 | < simontwo> | oh! |
| 11:33 | <@TheWatcher> | McM: yes, so I determined |
| 11:33 | <@McMartin> | TreeMap.get(), however, is logarithmic time. |
| 11:33 | <@McMartin> | Which is why you'd want to use an entrySet; it will let you iterate directly over key-value pairs. |
| 11:33 | <@McMartin> | (And thus even for the HashMap will be a *smaller* constant.) |
| 11:33 | < simontwo> | ah. |
| 11:34 | <@TheWatcher> | (looks like a neat product( |
| 11:34 | < simontwo> | so an Entry is like java's tuple |
| 11:34 | <@McMartin> | (2.0 was pretty much our "and now we *mean* it" release, though it took another three before the rest of the infrastructure was really set up) |
| 11:34 | <@McMartin> | (It is, however, made of a great deal of :science: at a number of levels) |
| 11:35 | <@McMartin> | simontwo: It's more special-purpose than that, but yeah, in effect. |
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| 11:52 | <@TheWatcher> | Aha, thank you google code search... |
| 11:53 | <@TheWatcher> | http://www.google.com/codesearch/p?hl=en&sa=N&cd=1&ct=rc#LjgI_l42fnw/resize.c&q= SDL_ResizeXY - the SDL_resize code |
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| 15:25 | | * gnolam stabs Gnome. |
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| 17:11 | | * TheWatcher completely overhauls the image loader design |
| 17:22 | | * gnolam stabs Gnome once again. |
| 17:26 | <@gnolam> | NGhgh |
| 18:06 | | Derakon[AFK] is now known as Derakon |
| 18:22 | <@Derakon> | Dammit, I hate it when that happens... |
| 18:22 | <@Derakon> | Someone tried to run Jetblade, and it barfed because I'd forgotten to add a file to the project. |
| 18:22 | <@Derakon> | Of course, it worked for me, because I created the project. |
| 18:23 | <@ToxicFrog> | Have a seperate working copy for testing. |
| 18:24 | <@Derakon> | Yeah, I should do that. |
| 18:30 | <@ToxicFrog> | What I always do before tagging a release is freshly clone to somewhere in /tmp and test that. |
| 18:30 | | * Derakon nods. |
| 18:30 | <@ToxicFrog> | If that works, I know it'll break on other people's systems because my LUA_CPATH is broken and not because I've forgotten to add some files~ |
| 18:30 | <@Derakon> | I keep forgetting that the repo on my computer is every bit as valid as the repo on the project site. |
| 18:42 | <@Derakon> | Hmm. I didn't get an email when a new issue was filed against the project. |
| 18:43 | <@Derakon> | Ah hah, have to add the email thing separately from the other "email me when this changes" areas. |
| 18:46 | <@SmithKurosaki> | Wait, if a program works in a /tmp folder, you know it won't work elsewhere? I am confused TF |
| 18:46 | <@Derakon> | If it doesn't work in a different location, then he knows it won't work for anyone else. |
| 18:46 | <@Derakon> | TF missed a negation. |
| 18:47 | <@SmithKurosaki> | Ok |
| 18:47 | <@SmithKurosaki> | Thanks :) |
| 18:53 | <@Vornicus> | No, he didn't - what he means is "If this fails on other people's systems, I need to check my cpath" |
| 18:59 | <@ToxicFrog> | What Vorn said. |
| 19:00 | <@ToxicFrog> | "If it works in /tmp, I know that failures on other systems will be be because of settings mismatches or missing dependencies, not because I forgot part of the program" |
| 19:04 | <@Derakon> | Ah, my mistake. |
| 19:18 | | Rhamphoryncus [~rhamph@Nightstar-7168.ed.shawcable.net] has joined #code |
| 19:20 | <@ToxicFrog> | http://www.e271.net/~marina/wanderer.html |
| 19:20 | <@ToxicFrog> | YES |
| 19:24 | | * Vornicus tries to figure out what he's looking at. |
| 19:25 | <@ToxicFrog> | A Boulderdash-style tty game that I played waaaaaay back in the day on AT&T and SCO. |
| 19:26 | <@TheWatcher> | Hee :D |
| 19:29 | <@ToxicFrog> | It took me like a year to beat the first level :D |
| 19:29 | <@Vornicus> | Heh |
| 19:30 | <@ToxicFrog> | And today...ten minutes, three tries |
| 19:31 | <@UndeadAnno> | That's been my impression of most games I've tried when I was young. |
| 19:32 | | * Vornicus tries to figure out if he can get it to build. |
| 19:32 | <@UndeadAnno> | I remember thinking that the NOD mission where Kane shoots his right hand man was impossible. |
| 19:32 | | * Vornicus also wonders why there's two sources. |
| 19:32 | <@UndeadAnno> | This being CnC1. |
| 19:32 | <@Vornicus> | First video game I ever beat was Zelda 1. |
| 19:33 | <@UndeadAnno> | For me, hm. Difficult question. I think it was Fallout 1. |
| 19:34 | <@ToxicFrog> | Vornicus: for building on linux, remove the declaration of malloc from monsters.c |
| 19:34 | <@ToxicFrog> | And edit wand_head.h to tell it where to find its bits |
| 19:35 | | * Vornicus is on Mac, so it's a BSD-like. |
| 19:35 | <@ToxicFrog> | No idea, then |
| 19:35 | <@ToxicFrog> | It's a very old game, so expect some compiler confusion |
| 19:38 | <@ToxicFrog> | (char * malloc();) |
| 19:38 | <@ToxicFrog> | Hmm, what was the first game I completed? |
| 19:40 | | * Derakon puts together a first pass at a style guide for Jetblade: http://code.google.com/p/jetblade/wiki/StyleGuide |
| 19:41 | <@ToxicFrog> | The first one - well, the first commercial one - that I remember notably not beating was Wing Commander |
| 19:41 | | * Derakon thinks back, tries to remember if he ever beat Donkey Kong on the C64. |
| 19:42 | <@Derakon> | If not, then probably Super Mario Bros was my first. |
| 19:44 | <@ToxicFrog> | I think the first for me might have been Duke Nukem, the shareware version |
| 19:44 | <@ToxicFrog> | Or if not that, one of the other early Apogee shareware platformers |
| 19:44 | <@ToxicFrog> | (not counting the educational games like Math Blaster and Reader Rabbit) |
| 19:44 | <@Derakon> | Heh. |
| 19:45 | <@Derakon> | I remember a C64 game that was sort of an introduction to logic. Your character was an Adventure-style orange box, and you could pick up and carry logic gates around and hook them together. |
| 19:45 | <@Derakon> | Then you'd input signals at one end and it'd output other signals at the other end. |
| 19:45 | <@UndeadAnno> | In my younger days, I'd be entertained with a game for a week or so, before moving on to something else. |
| 19:45 | <@UndeadAnno> | Nowadays, I'm still so, but I generally manage to complete a game in that time. :P |
| 19:45 | <@Derakon> | At the end of the game you got given a unit that'd shot a little dot when it got a signal, and you had to build a gun and use it to shoot down this dragon thing. |
| 19:46 | <@ToxicFrog> | That's pretty cool |
| 19:46 | <@ToxicFrog> | I wouldn't mind playing that |
| 19:46 | <@Derakon> | I wish I could remember what it was called. |
| 19:49 | | * UndeadAnno doesn't remember whether he played Frogger or Boulder Dash first, argh nostalgia. |
| 19:50 | | * Vornicus never actually ended up playing Actually Bounder Dash |
| 19:51 | <@Vornicus> | Boulder Dash. |
| 19:51 | <@UndeadAnno> | I played those two on the C-64 in the school classroom. |
| 19:51 | <@ToxicFrog> | Don't think I did, either |
| 19:51 | <@ToxicFrog> | I played lots of unix and dos-based clones of it, but never the original |
| 19:52 | <@UndeadAnno> | They came on cartridges, and we were allowed to play on the recesses. There was an actual monitor! Not a TV, an actual monitor! |
| 19:53 | <@UndeadAnno> | We played until we lost a life, so the others in line encouraged the player: "Sku?!" translating vaguely into "Tempt!", but meaning "Die!" |
| 19:56 | | * Derakon must go get groceries. |
| 19:56 | | Derakon is now known as Derakon[AFK] |
| 19:56 | <@UndeadAnno> | I remember once, during Religion class, some other kid who didn't have class then, was allowed to play while we learned, but we weren't supposed to watch. |
| 19:56 | <@UndeadAnno> | I got admonished for watching despite the restriction. |
| 20:00 | | * UndeadAnno also remembers playing on his friend's ZX Spectrum. It had an actual 5.25" floppy drive, but the friend only had a black and white TV. |
| 20:01 | <@UndeadAnno> | We played Archon (IIRC the name, it was a chesslike game where you duked it out when there was combat with joysticks) on that. |
| 20:02 | <@ToxicFrog> | Dad tried to teach me how to play Netrek on the serial terminals. |
| 20:02 | <@ToxicFrog> | I was terrible at it. |
| 20:03 | <@UndeadAnno> | Netrek? Never heard of it. |
| 20:04 | <@ToxicFrog> | A tty game of Star Trek deathatch |
| 20:04 | <@ToxicFrog> | *deathmatch |
| 20:04 | <@UndeadAnno> | I see. |
| 20:16 | <@Vornicus> | UndeadAnno: that would indeed be Archon. |
| 20:21 | <@GeekSoldier> | I enjoyed Archon quite a bit. |
| 20:21 | <@GeekSoldier> | I had it on my Atari 800XL. |
| 20:28 | < Consul> | I had Archon I and II on my C64. I was never able to beat the computer. |
| 20:29 | < Consul> | Maybe I could now, but not when I was 10. |
| 21:02 | <@GeekSoldier> | I am not looking at this right... To get the next element from a generator g in Python 3, g.next() no longer works. What is the magic statement now? |
| 21:04 | <@Vornicus> | next(g) |
| 21:04 | <@GeekSoldier> | oh, ok. |
| 21:07 | | Attilla [~The.Attil@92.19.140.ns-11540] has quit [Ping Timeout] |
| 21:11 | | Attilla [~The.Attil@92.19.140.ns-11540] has joined #code |
| 21:11 | | mode/#code [+o Attilla] by ChanServ |
| 21:17 | | gnolam [lenin@Nightstar-1382.A163.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [Quit: Reboot] |
| 21:26 | | * TheWatcher ughs at threads |
| 21:32 | | gnolam [lenin@Nightstar-1382.A163.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #Code |
| 21:32 | | mode/#code [+o gnolam] by ChanServ |
| 21:39 | | Attilla [~The.Attil@92.19.140.ns-11540] has quit [Ping Timeout] |
| 21:52 | | * gnolam finally gives up on gnome's VFS and installs FileZilla. |
| 21:55 | | * TheWatcher bleghs at libcurl's handling of time conditions |
| 21:57 | <@jerith> | TheWatcher: There is a best HTTP library in the same way that there is a best method for disemboweling oneself. |
| 21:58 | <@TheWatcher> | Yeah, so I'm gathering. |
| 21:58 | <@jerith> | This is true for the vast majority of the software industry, I have come to realise. |
| 21:58 | <@jerith> | (Don't even get me started on web frameworks.) |
| 22:04 | | Attilla [~The.Attil@92.19.140.ns-11540] has joined #code |
| 22:04 | | mode/#code [+o Attilla] by ChanServ |
| 22:05 | | Vornicus is now known as Finerty |
| 22:16 | | Kazriko [~kaz@Nightstar-26123.gdj-co.client.bresnan.net] has quit [Ping Timeout] |
| 22:16 | | Kazriko [~kaz@Nightstar-26123.gdj-co.client.bresnan.net] has joined #code |
| 23:05 | | Tarinaky [~Tarinaky@Nightstar-16638.plus.com] has quit [Client exited] |
| 23:25 | | UndeadAnno [AnnoDomini@Nightstar-29196.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Quit: Caught you red-handed! Bad grammar and animated smileys are a sure sign of guilt!] |
| 23:57 | | You're now known as TheWatcher[T-2] |
| --- Log closed Mon Jun 29 00:00:11 2009 |