| --- Log opened Sat Jun 27 00:00:09 2009 |
| 00:36 | <@gnolam> | NGHSGHDGHl |
| 00:36 | | * gnolam accidentally pressed "Rebuild Solution" AGAIN. |
| 01:14 | | * Derakon facepalms. |
| 01:14 | <@Derakon> | I posted about Jetblade on the "Help Wanted" section of the GameDev.net forums. Got 87 views so far, and one post, which stated appreciation for the screenshots and wished me luck. ¬.¬ |
| 01:40 | | Vornicus is now known as Vornicus-Latens |
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| --- Log closed Sat Jun 27 14:12:49 2009 |
| --- Log opened Sat Jun 27 14:29:41 2009 |
| 14:29 | | TheWatcher [~chris@Nightstar-29731.dsl.in-addr.zen.co.uk] has joined #code |
| 14:29 | | Irssi: #code: Total of 23 nicks [13 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 10 normal] |
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| 15:06 | | * TheWatcher actually does some coding in something that isn't perl for the first time in several months |
| 15:14 | <@jerith> | :-) |
| 15:14 | <@jerith> | What're you writing? |
| 15:15 | <@jerith> | And what are you writing it in? |
| 15:17 | <@TheWatcher> | Remember this entry: http://rimspace.livejournal.com/244167.html? Doing some vague fiddling on that. |
| 15:17 | <@TheWatcher> | And C++. |
| 15:18 | <@TheWatcher> | Although, actually, right now I'm working on the FSM for image boxes in Dia. |
| 16:06 | | Syloq [Syloq@NetAdmin.Nightstar.Net] has joined #code |
| 16:07 | | Syloq is now known as Syloqs-AFH |
| 17:31 | | Derakon[AFK] is now known as Derakon |
| 17:44 | | * TheWatcher eyes SDL_thread |
| 17:46 | | * TheWatcher wonders if the Rather Worrying Warnings in the description of SDL_CreateThread for 1.2.9 on win32 still apply in 1.2.13 |
| 17:56 | | * simontwo is creating a Vampire: the Masquerade character sheet manager in Java. yay. |
| 17:56 | | * simontwo is one of the select few individuals who actually enjoys Swing. |
| 17:57 | <@gnolam> | A swinger, eh? |
| 18:15 | <@ToxicFrog> | You're a sick man~ |
| 18:15 | <@Derakon> | Nothing a little aspirin won't fix~ |
| 18:19 | <@UndeadAnno> | simontwo: Shouldn't be too hard, especially compared to making DnD stuff. |
| 18:30 | <@jerith> | A friend of mine maintains a Vampire: the Eternal Struggle card database app thing. |
| 18:30 | <@jerith> | That uses pygtk, I believe. |
| 18:45 | | donkeyboy [~chatzilla@41.145.81.ns-13338] has joined #code |
| 18:46 | <@jerith> | Hey donkeyboy. |
| 18:46 | < donkeyboy> | Yo |
| 18:47 | < donkeyboy> | still digesting yummy pizza |
| 18:47 | <@jerith> | donkeyboy shares a city with me. It's hard to fit our combined awesomeness in, but we manage. ;-) |
| 18:47 | < donkeyboy> | lol |
| 18:47 | <@jerith> | What part of the world do you work in, by the way? |
| 18:47 | <@jerith> | Anywhere near Long St.? |
| 18:48 | < donkeyboy> | newlands |
| 18:48 | < donkeyboy> | the oval right next to cavendish square |
| 18:48 | | * Derakon eyes the Google Analytics report for the Jetblade project site, which says "1 people visited this site" and then says that Firefox and Opera were used, as well as three different connection speeds. |
| 18:48 | <@jerith> | Ah. So much for my cunning plan to get together for lunch, then. ;-) |
| 18:49 | <@jerith> | Derakon: Maybe the others all had script blockers or something? |
| 18:49 | < donkeyboy> | i can always organise an excuse to have a meeting at the cape town office :-D |
| 18:49 | <@jerith> | :-) |
| 18:49 | <@jerith> | Let me know if you do -- without an excuse to go for a walk I tend to eat at my desk and get no exercise. |
| 18:50 | <@Derakon> | Jerith: they should still be counted as separate visitors. |
| 18:50 | <@jerith> | Derakon: True. |
| 18:50 | <@Derakon> | I mean, this is basic HTTP request log parsing. |
| 18:50 | < donkeyboy> | yeah, life of a coder. I would say 80% of my lunches are in front of my laptop |
| 18:50 | <@jerith> | Maybe they all came from the same IP? |
| 18:51 | < donkeyboy> | Derakon: I like the 1 people part :-D |
| 18:51 | <@Derakon> | Implausible. I surely must be one of the visitors and I don't use Opera. |
| 18:51 | <@jerith> | For example, all South African HTTP traffic is routed through a small set of transparent proxies. |
| 18:51 | <@Derakon> | Igh. |
| 18:52 | <@jerith> | Apart from putting forty million people behind a tiny number of IPs, this gives you a random source address for each request. |
| 18:52 | <@jerith> | So sites that kill sessions if the IP changes? Sorry South Africa. |
| 18:53 | < donkeyboy> | yes, and Telkom ADSL is even worse, so when one person has been naughty most of us get banned from 4chan :-( |
| 18:53 | <@jerith> | Which is a feature, not a bug. ;-) |
| 18:53 | < donkeyboy> | hahaha |
| 18:54 | <@jerith> | Anyways, donkeyboy joins us for Project Euler happyfun. |
| 18:54 | < donkeyboy> | hehe, try to get the old noodle fired up |
| 18:57 | <@Derakon> | Welcome, and good lulck. |
| 18:57 | <@Derakon> | Er, luck. |
| 18:57 | <@Derakon> | My pet project is Jetblade: http://code.google.com/p/jetblade/ |
| 18:58 | <@Derakon> | Actually, question on that -- are any of you able to file issues and/or edit the wiki? |
| 19:00 | <@jerith> | I can file an issue. |
| 19:00 | <@jerith> | Which you should be able to see now. |
| 19:00 | <@Derakon> | I do indeed. Thanks. |
| 19:00 | <@jerith> | And probably close with "by design". ;-) |
| 19:02 | <@jerith> | I get a comment box, but no edit button on the roadmap page. |
| 19:03 | <@Derakon> | Okay, I suppose that's to be expected. |
| 19:03 | <@Derakon> | I have really no idea how to handle permissions here... |
| 19:14 | | donkeyboy [~chatzilla@41.145.81.ns-13338] has left #code [] |
| 19:52 | | * TheWatcher notes he's viewed the jetblade site, and has done it with Seamonkey on linux, so.... |
| 19:56 | | * TheWatcher also bleghs, decides to risk SDL_thread and see what happens |
| 20:24 | <@Derakon> | What are these dire warnings? |
| 20:28 | <@TheWatcher> | the intial thread must be the one doing even polling, or keyboard events Don't Work, and the system can become unstable if you use SDL_mixer or any blitting functions from all but the initial thread, too |
| 20:28 | <@Derakon> | ...WTC. |
| 20:28 | | * jerith considers the yuckiness of projecteuler problem 98. |
| 20:29 | <@Derakon> | Having a separate thread for sound and/or drawing is half the point of threads in games! |
| 20:29 | <@TheWatcher> | Yeah |
| 20:29 | <@Derakon> | One thread for events, one for sound, one for drawing, N for AI... |
| 20:30 | <@TheWatcher> | Thankfully, for the thing I'm working on, I shouldn't need more than two, I think. |
| 20:30 | <@TheWatcher> | And the second one is mainly there to do asynchronous image loading across networks, so |
| 20:32 | <@TheWatcher> | (AFAICT, all the problems with SDL threads are on Windows. But there's nothing I can find in SDL's bugzilla on them, and I guess I'll have to dig through changelogs to find out whether they were addressed at all) |
| 20:32 | <@TheWatcher> | (all the problems I have found are for 1.2.8/1.2.9 so, maybe...) |
| 20:33 | <@TheWatcher> | (well, all but one, claiming there's a memory leak in createthread in 1.2.13, but no example code or evidence, so I'm ignoring that) |
| 20:33 | <@McMartin> | "any of the blitting functions"? |
| 20:33 | <@McMartin> | The rule is that only the main thread can touch the hardware. |
| 20:34 | <@TheWatcher> | "Moreover, it is recommended to use SDL_mixer and SDL blitting functions from within that initial thread as well, otherwise the system becomes unstable (also only under win32) despite the proper use of mutexes and conditional variables." |
| 20:34 | <@McMartin> | Yeah, that has not been UQM's experience. |
| 20:34 | <@TheWatcher> | Good. |
| 20:35 | <@McMartin> | UQM does between one and three blits per frame in the main thread; all others are in subthreads. |
| 20:35 | <@McMartin> | SDL_mixer is made of so much suffering and sadness that we found it easier to effectively reimplement OpenAL. |
| 20:41 | | * Derakon blarghs, feels bereft of brain capacity today. |
| 20:43 | <@McMartin> | But yes; don't blit to the surface returned by SDL_SetVideoMode outside of the main thread. |
| 20:43 | <@Derakon> | So all the other threads blit to surfaces that then get blitted to the "screen" surface? |
| 20:43 | <@McMartin> | Yeah. |
| 20:43 | <@Derakon> | Gotcha. |
| 20:43 | <@McMartin> | Alternately, they are loaded as OpenGL textures and thrown up as a quad. |
| 20:44 | <@McMartin> | Then there are up to two additional quads/bits for the fade-to-black-or-white effect and for the cached screen for crossfades. |
| 20:44 | <@TheWatcher> | Thanks, McM |
| 20:45 | <@Derakon> | I like this map: http://wiki.jetblade.googlecode.com/hg/images/maps/samplemap3.png |
| 20:46 | <@McMartin> | If you're doing seriously independent operations, you'll probably find you need to set up some kind of message queue that threads register with. |
| 20:46 | <@Derakon> | I mean, the grid-structured region in the middle's a bit big and unvarying, but that's nothing more map detail can't fix. |
| 20:46 | <@TheWatcher> | Dera: yeah, that is pretty neat :) |
| 20:47 | < Consul> | Derakon: I have to say, this game is interesting me a lot more than Fusillade did. |
| 20:47 | <@Derakon> | Heh. |
| 20:47 | <@Derakon> | Fusillade wasn't very accessible. |
| 20:47 | < Consul> | Well, I've never been one for "bullet hell" games. |
| 20:47 | < Consul> | But a good platformer... |
| 20:47 | <@Derakon> | Bullet hell games aren't very accessible. :) |
| 20:49 | <@jerith> | Very pretty, Der. |
| 20:50 | <@Derakon> | In any event, Consule, Jetblade's open-source now, so feel free to download it and check it out. :) |
| 20:50 | < Consul> | Jetblade? Is that the current game? |
| 20:50 | <@Derakon> | Yeah. |
| 20:50 | < Consul> | Ah, okay. |
| 20:51 | < Consul> | I don't have anything in the way of a joystick. |
| 20:51 | <@Derakon> | Project site: http://code.google.com/p/jetblade/ |
| 20:51 | <@Derakon> | It doesn't currently support joypad input anyway, so no worries there. |
| 20:59 | < Consul> | Guess I just need to set myself up with Python and PyGame and all that stuff, then. :-) |
| 20:59 | <@Derakon> | Python, PyGame, and Mercurial to download the source, yeah. |
| 20:59 | < Consul> | Any particular version of Python? |
| 20:59 | <@Derakon> | 2.5 or 2.6. |
| 21:00 | < Consul> | Aww, no bleeding edge for me, then. ;-) |
| 21:00 | <@Derakon> | I'm revamping the GettingStarted wiki page at the moment. |
| 21:00 | <@Derakon> | Heh. |
| 21:00 | <@Derakon> | Python 3.0 isn't supported by PyGame yet, last I heard. |
| 21:00 | < Consul> | Yeah, a lot of things still need to be converted over. |
| 21:01 | <@jerith> | Skip 3.0 and go straight to 3.1. |
| 21:02 | <@jerith> | It's due out any moment now. |
| 21:04 | | Tarinaky [~Tarinaky@Nightstar-16638.plus.com] has quit [Client exited] |
| 21:15 | | Vornicus-Latens is now known as Vornicus |
| 22:35 | | * Derakon moves a bunch of module constants to other modules, commits without, yannow, verifying that everything isn't horribly broken. |
| 22:35 | <@Derakon> | Wow I'm out of practice with using VCS. |
| 22:37 | <@Derakon> | At least the commits don't go to the master repo automatically, but still... |
| 22:39 | | * Vornicus should really find his CI script. |
| 22:40 | <@Vornicus> | (I had a thing that detected updates to an svn repository, downloaded same, and ran the unit tests, and showed a red or green page depending on whether they passed. |
| 22:40 | <@Vornicus> | And it made the Sims "water accident" sound when it failed. |
| 22:41 | | * Derakon quirks an eyebrow. |
| 22:41 | <@jerith> | Yay CI! |
| 22:42 | <@MyCatVerbs> | CI? |
| 22:42 | <@jerith> | Continuous Integration. |
| 22:42 | <@Vornicus> | Continuous Integration |
| 22:42 | <@Vornicus> | essentially you test /all the time/. |
| 22:42 | <@jerith> | A fancy term for "run a build/test cycle on every commit". |
| 22:42 | <@jerith> | Or hourly. Or whatever. |
| 22:43 | <@Derakon> | We would've loved to do that at Amazon. A pity the test cycle took several hours to run. ¬.¬ |
| 22:43 | <@jerith> | We did it at Amazon. It took half an hour. |
| 22:43 | <@Derakon> | (And not only that, but it could only be run by one person at a time, but there were no locks...) |
| 22:44 | <@Derakon> | Your systems were presumably more amenable to tests than ours. |
| 22:44 | <@Vornicus> | At Resmark the test cycle was ten minutes long. |
| 22:44 | <@MyCatVerbs> | Ah. And there I thought the term denoted putting components into mainline immediately, rather than doing thing at a time. |
| 22:44 | <@MyCatVerbs> | Oopsie daisy. |
| 22:44 | <@jerith> | One of the advantages of building EC2 was the availability of virtual servers to build and test on. |
| 22:44 | <@Vornicus> | It included among other things hitting a third party test-data server, and rapidly creating and destroying more than 200 different windows. |
| 22:45 | <@jerith> | Also, there was a bunch of stuff that could not be tested inside a virt. Those were tested more manually after installing a test cluster. |
| 22:47 | <@Derakon> | Our tests involved, among other things, hitting up the test customer database. |
| 22:47 | <@Derakon> | Which our team had no control over, and we certainly couldn't run our own instances of it. |
| 22:47 | <@jerith> | Derakon: Which team were you on? |
| 22:47 | <@Derakon> | So there was no way to e.g. set up a new customer just so, without running an automated web browser, which was pretty hideously slow. |
| 22:47 | <@Derakon> | Ordering. |
| 22:48 | <@jerith> | Ah. Who was it who was (or maybe still is?) on the Apollo team? |
| 22:49 | <@Derakon> | No idea. |
| 22:49 | <@jerith> | Someone from around here was. Don't recall who, or even if he's still a regular. |
| 22:50 | <@Vornicus> | Dacut works at Amazon. |
| 22:51 | <@Vornicus> | And DarthParadox, unless I am going crazy. |
| 22:51 | <@jerith> | Ah, DarthParadox. |
| 22:51 | <@jerith> | That's who I was thinking of. |
| 22:51 | <@jerith> | I don't know Dacut. |
| 22:52 | <@Vornicus> | sunburn ;_; |
| 22:52 | <@Vornicus> | He also just got married. |
| 22:52 | <@jerith> | Sunburn? |
| 22:53 | | * Vornicus was sitting outside all day. Apparently the sunblock was... less than completely effective. |
| 22:53 | <@TheWatcher> | Ouch |
| 22:53 | <@jerith> | Ow. |
| 22:53 | | * jerith refrains from offering a comforting hug... |
| 22:55 | <@Vornicus> | So my forearms and backs of my hands are sunburned. |
| 22:56 | | * TheWatcher recommends some calamine lotion |
| 22:56 | | * Vornicus has aloe. |
| 22:57 | < Consul> | Aloe plants are the bomb diggity. |
| 22:57 | <@jerith> | Not until they are turned into lotion. |
| 22:58 | <@jerith> | When I was about 6, we lived in a house with a hill perfect for riding cardboard boxes down. |
| 22:58 | <@jerith> | Except there was a row of brutal alies planted at the bottom. |
| 22:58 | <@jerith> | *aloes |
| 22:59 | < Consul> | Gel straight from the aloe plant is the best stuff for burns. I spend enough time in the kitchen to know. :-) |
| 23:00 | | * TheWatcher hrms |
| 23:00 | <@jerith> | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aloe_arborescens <-- Something like that. |
| 23:01 | < Consul> | Ah |
| 23:02 | < Consul> | We have an aloe vera plant. |
| 23:02 | < Consul> | In a pot. |
| 23:02 | | * TheWatcher eyes libcurl |
| 23:02 | < Consul> | So there's little chance of running into it while riding in a box. |
| 23:02 | <@Derakon> | You want libperm, TW~ |
| 23:03 | <@jerith> | I like aloes, but hitting them at terminal velocity after a hill slide... |
| 23:03 | <@jerith> | Worth it, until the next day when the excitement was all gone but the punctured flesh remains. |
| 23:04 | <@TheWatcher> | Dera: link? |
| 23:04 | <@Derakon> | I was being silly, TW. |
| 23:04 | <@TheWatcher> | Oh, shame |
| 23:04 | <@Derakon> | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perm_(hairstyle) |
| 23:04 | <@TheWatcher> | because whoever wrote these API docs should go work for Sun... |
| 23:05 | <@TheWatcher> | They're about as half useless as some of the Java API docs |
| 23:05 | <@McMartin> | s/Sun/Oracle/ |
| 23:05 | <@Derakon> | Better they be half as useless, eh? |
| 23:05 | <@TheWatcher> | No, actually |
| 23:06 | <@McMartin> | Curl, like democracy, is the worst HTTP API except for all the other ones. =( |
| 23:06 | < Consul> | Heh |
| 23:06 | < Consul> | That's how I feel about audio plug-in standards./ |
| 23:08 | <@McMartin> | It's intrinsically hard for obvious reasons, at least. |
| 23:08 | <@TheWatcher> | Dera: I find that half-arsed docs are worse than none at all, because at least in the latter case you resign yourself to having to look at the source from the start. Half-arsed docs string you along with vague promises of being adequate, right up until you want to do anything useful... |
| 23:09 | <@Derakon> | Heh. |
| 23:09 | < Consul> | McMartin: Really, the hard part about VST is the severe lack of docs and tutorials. The people who make mad money on VST plug-ins want to keep the knowledge locked up, I think. |
| 23:09 | <@McMartin> | I meant curl |
| 23:10 | <@McMartin> | Transparently handling network operations is twelve different kinds of bitch |
| 23:10 | <@McMartin> | Speaking of, I should check my corporate changelogs to see if the curl bug that was blocking me has since been fixed. |
| 23:14 | | * TheWatcher hms, thinks he has a good enough handle on it for what he needs, anyway |
| 23:16 | <@McMartin> | Yeah, just watch out for caching in long-running programs. |
| 23:16 | <@McMartin> | It's very easy to accidentally set up your code to leak sockets by the dozens if not the hundreds |
| 23:17 | | * TheWatcher nods |
| 23:18 | <@McMartin> | netstat should let you know if it's going on; you'll see huge numbers of guys in CLOSE_WAIT status. |
| 23:44 | | UndeadAnno [AnnoDomini@Nightstar-29163.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Quit: How desirable it is among those similar to me // A different one to be - beautiful, strong, brave! // Such individuals, in the sparrows world - not welcome… // In fact, then, a CROW theyll call me! Even if they admit I'm a white one.] |
| --- Log closed Sun Jun 28 00:00:43 2009 |