| --- Log opened Tue Jun 23 00:00:12 2009 |
| 00:02 | <@Consul> | NSIS == NullSoft Installer? |
| 00:03 | <@Consul> | Or is it InstallShield? |
| 00:03 | <@Consul> | TMA! (Too Many Acronyms) |
| 00:05 | <@Consul> | Ah, it is the NullSoft one, okay. |
| 00:06 | <@Consul> | Interestingly enough, my favorite digital audio multitracker program was written by the same guy. |
| 00:08 | <@McMartin> | NSIS is by far the best of breed. |
| 00:08 | <@McMartin> | It's just still made of spiders |
| 00:09 | <@Consul> | That seems to be a common theme in programming in general. |
| 00:09 | <@Consul> | The best IDE at editing is the worst at managing a project, etc. |
| 00:09 | <@Consul> | Lots of dichotomies in the CS world. |
| 00:14 | <@McMartin> | Well, no |
| 00:14 | <@McMartin> | NSIS is in fact the best of everything at everything in its domain |
| 00:14 | <@McMartin> | It's just still objectively horrendous. |
| 00:15 | <@Consul> | Ah, I see what you're saying. |
| 00:15 | <@Consul> | In the end, installation is a hard problem, with no easy solution no matter what you do? |
| 00:15 | <@McMartin> | I suspect that's the case |
| 00:15 | <@Consul> | Kinda like physics. |
| 00:15 | <@Consul> | Physics is a tough class, no matter how good your teacher is. |
| 00:15 | <@McMartin> | But having the best of breed be a language that used to brag that it was like a cross between assembler and PHP does not help the case. |
| 00:16 | <@Consul> | Reaper (the aforementioned DAW also by Justin Frankel) includes a DSP language that can be used for coding one's own plugins. |
| 00:17 | <@Consul> | Which is really, really cool. |
| 00:17 | <@Consul> | It's set up sort of like a pseudocode, designed for DSP. |
| 00:17 | <@Consul> | But... |
| 00:17 | <@Consul> | It still lacks functions and includes, which makes it difficult for anything beyond the most basic of algorithms. |
| 00:18 | <@McMartin> | NSIS has since gotten a set of undocumented macros called "LogicLib" that let you have control flow that isn't GOTO. |
| 00:18 | <@Consul> | And it had GUI support, but it's low-level "draw the pixels by hand" kind of GUIs. |
| 00:19 | <@McMartin> | NSIS now has decent UI design too, it seems, though I wasn't responsible for that bit of the installer here. |
| 00:19 | <@Consul> | Err, it *has* GUI support, I mean. |
| 00:20 | <@Consul> | Interesting how our two conversations are interleaving like this. :-) |
| 01:58 | | * Reiver hunts a McMartin, for he could use conceptual assistance again. |
| 01:58 | < simontwo> | I always liked NSIS. never had a use for it, though. |
| 02:03 | <@McMartin> | Kind of busy atm, I fear |
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| 02:08 | <@Reiver> | McM: Doh. Are you liable to remain busy for the next few hours? |
| 02:08 | <@McMartin> | God, I hope not. |
| 02:08 | <@McMartin> | But I don't have high hopes |
| 02:09 | <@Reiver> | OK. |
| 02:10 | <@Reiver> | It is not too much, but I don't want to bug ye, so |
| 02:10 | <@McMartin> | Feel free to toss it in PM, but I don't know when I'll get to it |
| 02:10 | <@Reiver> | Sure |
| 02:28 | <@Reiver> | McM: Ka-sent |
| 02:28 | <@Reiver> | Not compulsory, but if you have a few moments, cheers. The help has been appreciated either way. :) |
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| 02:49 | | mode/#code [+oooooo Alek ASCII crem_ GeekSoldier jerith Kazriko] by Vornicus |
| 02:49 | | mode/#code [+oooo Namegduf simontwo Syloqs-AFH Tarinaky] by Vornicus |
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| 03:28 | | * Derakon reworks crawling logic again. |
| 03:34 | <@Derakon> | And now I get to find this fun collision bug: http://derakon.dyndns.org/~chriswei/games/jbrl/collision/player13.png |
| 03:35 | <@Derakon> | ...actually, I know how to fix this. |
| 04:00 | <@Derakon> | This, however, is going to be more annoying: http://derakon.dyndns.org/~chriswei/games/jbrl/collision/player13b.gif |
| 04:01 | <@Derakon> | Problem is that the player, while crawling, runs off the edge of the ledge, and thus starts falling. The falling animation has a different bounding polygon than the crawling one, which embeds it deeply into the terrain, causing it to generate erroneous collision vectors. |
| 04:08 | | * Derakon makes potentially-unwarranted assumptions about the shapes of bounding polygons, fixes the problem. For now, anyway. |
| 04:09 | <@Derakon> | There are now 24 TODO markers in JBRL's codebase. >.> |
| 04:14 | <@Vornicus> | Do you have any actual critters in the game, or are you still working on the avatar's physics? |
| 04:14 | <@Reiver> | Idle suggestion: Base the bounding box off the 'head'. |
| 04:14 | <@Derakon> | Vorn: at the moment, it's just the player, but the logic's going in TerrestrialObject instead of Player. |
| 04:15 | <@Reiver> | Far as I can tell, that would fix any falling issues (As you need space downwards to fall) |
| 04:15 | <@Derakon> | Reiver: basically what I did was find the top of the bounding box before and after entering freefall, and moving the creature down by the difference, if they were crawling before they started falling. |
| 04:15 | <@Reiver> | right. |
| 04:16 | <@Derakon> | Vorn: my goal is to have the Player be simply another of a generic class of objects, whose only major differences are a) more customizable physics (from upgrades, etc.), and b) state updates are handled by keyboard input instead of an AI routine. |
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| 05:10 | | * Vornicus nods. |
| 05:17 | | * Reiver pokes McMartin. Knows you're busy, wonders if you have a minute - he's sorted out most of his challenges and is now poking at the (hopefully) next to last one. |
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| 07:30 | <@Reiver> | Say, Anno |
| 07:30 | <@Reiver> | Do you know Haskell? |
| 07:31 | <@Reiver> | I am staring at some really, /really/ stupid errors and wondering WTF. |
| 07:32 | <@UndeadAnno> | I don't know Haskell. |
| 07:32 | <@Reiver> | gnah |
| 07:32 | | * Reiver pokes McMartin experimentally. |
| 07:33 | <@Phas> | MCV also knows haskell. |
| 07:33 | <@Reiver> | Ooh |
| 07:33 | | * Reiver pokes MyCatVerbs too, then. |
| 07:38 | <@Reiver> | Hn. Should be awake soonish. Well, that's a start. |
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| 09:32 | | You're now known as TheWatcher |
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| 12:25 | | * Vornicus-Latens randomly writes def broadway_norm(v): prev = 0; total = 0; for n, x in sorted(v, reverse = True): total += sqrt(len(v) - n) * (x - prev); prev = x;; return total |
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| 13:58 | <@gnolam> | Sweet. Managed to reduce the code size for this class by half. |
| 14:02 | <@simontwo> | fu. |
| 14:02 | <@Vornicus> | Der: better fix, crawling makes you fliphang. |
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| 15:50 | <@Reiver> | MyCatVerbs! |
| 15:50 | <@Reiver> | Are you awake? |
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| 16:22 | <@MyCatVerbs> | Reiver: yes. What can I do for you? |
| 16:26 | <@Reiver> | Ach! |
| 16:26 | <@Reiver> | You know Haskell, yes? |
| 16:27 | <@Reiver> | I got stuck on a wee bug while extending my code, and am a bit stuck on how I should go about fixing it. |
| 16:39 | <@MyCatVerbs> | Yes, just a little. :) |
| 16:40 | <@MyCatVerbs> | Sure thing, hit me. (Preferrably with a pastebin - hpaste.org for example has good highlighting for H98). |
| 16:46 | <@Reiver> | Sorry, got distracted (by ze loo, funny how that happens) |
| 16:46 | <@Reiver> | http://pastebin.com/d3af06dc |
| 16:47 | <@Reiver> | hugs error to match: |
| 16:47 | <@Reiver> | ERROR file:.\Ass4.txt:130 - Type error in explicitly typed binding |
| 16:47 | <@Reiver> | *** Term : emptyMem |
| 16:47 | <@Reiver> | *** Type : ([a],MemVal) |
| 16:47 | <@Reiver> | *** Does not match : Memory |
| 16:49 | <@Reiver> | Basic plan is I want emptyMem to be a Memory value of, y'know, a set of blanks. |
| 16:49 | <@Reiver> | But I'm having trouble getting it to type properly. |
| 17:01 | <@MyCatVerbs> | Reiver: Unbound is a single value of type MemVal. |
| 17:01 | <@MyCatVerbs> | Reiver: Memory's second member is a function from Ide to MemVal. |
| 17:01 | <@MyCatVerbs> | Perhaps you wanted empty = ([],const Unbound) -- ? |
| 17:03 | <@MyCatVerbs> | i.e. ([], \_ -> Ubound ) |
| 17:03 | <@Reiver> | hm |
| 17:03 | | * Reiver tries it |
| 17:03 | <@MyCatVerbs> | Memory = ([Ide],Ide -> MemVal). You've supplied ([a],MemVal). The list matches just fine (a unifies with Ide no problem) but it's the second member that doesn't work. |
| 17:04 | <@Reiver> | HA! |
| 17:04 | <@MyCatVerbs> | BTW, are you using Hugs or something? That error is formatted in an unfamiliar way. All the sexy people use GHC. ^_^ |
| 17:04 | <@Reiver> | See, I didn't know about const unbound |
| 17:04 | <@Reiver> | Or even const |
| 17:04 | <@MyCatVerbs> | And me too, but that's just a random aberration. |
| 17:04 | <@Reiver> | So that error was really throwing me. |
| 17:04 | <@MyCatVerbs> | const a _ = a |
| 17:04 | <@Reiver> | And yeah, it's HUGS |
| 17:04 | <@Reiver> | 'tis awesome, for it allows quick and easy debugging. |
| 17:05 | <@MyCatVerbs> | I s'pose. You do know about GHCi, though? |
| 17:05 | <@Reiver> | I'm aware of its existance. :) |
| 17:05 | | * MyCatVerbs tends to lean heavily on the :r sequence. |
| 17:09 | <@Reiver> | :r ? |
| 17:10 | <@Reiver> | Also: And with that one change, it now runs |
| 17:12 | <@Reiver> | hrn, so |
| 17:12 | <@Reiver> | Memory is of type ([Ide],Ide -> MemVal) right |
| 17:12 | <@Reiver> | I have a get function that will drag out the MemVal part for me as required. |
| 17:12 | <@Reiver> | How would I do a one-off extraction of the [Ide] ? |
| 17:16 | <@MyCatVerbs> | (!! index) is the usual way. |
| 17:16 | <@Reiver> | whut |
| 17:16 | <@MyCatVerbs> | Oh, I thought you meant one element out of the list, my bad. |
| 17:16 | <@MyCatVerbs> | fst and snd give you the elements of a pair. |
| 17:17 | <@MyCatVerbs> | fst (a,_) = a; snd (_,b) = b |
| 17:17 | <@MyCatVerbs> | Or you can pattern match: let (list,fun) = someMemValYouHaveFromSomewhere in ... -- use list or fun here. |
| 17:19 | <@Reiver> | Ach! |
| 17:19 | <@Reiver> | So, fst m would give me the list? |
| 17:20 | <@MyCatVerbs> | Yep. |
| 17:21 | <@MyCatVerbs> | And ((fst m) !! n) would give you the n'th item in the list. :) |
| 17:22 | <@simontwo> | in O(n) time? |
| 17:22 | <@Reiver> | whoa |
| 17:22 | <@Reiver> | *** Expression : fst m ++ "; Memory: w = " ++ show (get m "w") ++ ", x = " ++ show (get m "x") ++ ", y = " ++ show (get m "y") ++ ", z = " ++ show (get m "z") ++ "; Input:" ++ show i ++ "; Output: " ++ show o |
| 17:22 | <@Reiver> | *** Term : fst m |
| 17:22 | <@Reiver> | *** Type : [[Char]] |
| 17:22 | <@Reiver> | *** Does not match : [Char] |
| 17:23 | <@Reiver> | simontwo: Generally that sort of operation is in linear time, 'cuz the linked list has to be iterated through |
| 17:24 | <@MyCatVerbs> | Reiver: Ide's a [Char]. fst m :: [Ide]. [Ide] = [[Char]]. |
| 17:25 | <@MyCatVerbs> | You can't concatenate a list of strings with a single string. |
| 17:25 | <@MyCatVerbs> | (concat . fst $ m) ++ ..., perhaps? |
| 17:25 | <@MyCatVerbs> | Or just (show (fst m)) would get you something semi-reasonable. |
| 17:25 | <@MyCatVerbs> | ["foo","bar","baz"] kind of thing. |
| 17:26 | <@Reiver> | oh, show! I keep forgetting you. Poor show. |
| 17:27 | <@Reiver> | IT VORKZ |
| 17:27 | <@Reiver> | MUAHAHAHAHAHA |
| 17:27 | <@Reiver> | Now I have only to hand-write some TINY parsing, and it eez done |
| 17:30 | <@MyCatVerbs> | Yeah, you get kind of used to not writing it at the REPL. |
| 17:31 | <@MyCatVerbs> | Everything is implicitly typed against Show a => a, or Show a => IO a, and then either run through (putStrLn . show) or (>>= (putStrLn . show)) -- ;) |
| 17:53 | <@GeekSoldier> | GHC won't compile from the FreeBSD ports collection. boo. |
| 18:02 | | * Derakon mutters at Doxygen for not generating links to classes for him. |
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| 20:31 | | * gnolam curses Visio's UI designers. |
| 20:35 | <@gnolam> | One wonders how, during its entire development, /nobody/ thought to make sure the columns in the class properties dialog were actually wide enough to display their contents. |
| 20:42 | <@SmithKurosaki> | >.< |
| 20:44 | <@gnolam> | Oh, and you can't permanently make them wide enough. |
| 21:37 | <@McMartin> | TheWatcher: Our QA is now beer-worthy by your measure~ |
| 21:37 | <@TheWatcher> | Awesome :) |
| 21:42 | <@Derakon> | Hey, TW, don't suppose you know much about Doxygen and Python? |
| 21:47 | <@TheWatcher> | Nope; I only know Doxygen as used in c/c++/perl. But what's up, I /might/ know something... |
| 21:48 | <@Derakon> | I'm trying to convince it to link to my Map class when I write "Map" in bits of documentation. |
| 21:49 | <@Derakon> | The only way I've gotten an autogenerated link to work is with the "\package Map" line, though, which takes you to the wrong page. |
| 21:49 | <@TheWatcher> | tried \link Map? |
| 21:50 | <@Derakon> | I was hoping for autolinking. :\ |
| 21:51 | <@Derakon> | Per the docco, "All words in the documentation that correspond to a documented class and contain at least one upper case character will automatically be replaced by a link to the page containing the documentation of the class." |
| 21:51 | <@TheWatcher> | Sometimes the autolink can go a bit bandy, IME. |
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| 21:52 | <@Derakon> | Bah. |
| 21:52 | <@Derakon> | Oh, well. |
| 21:52 | <@Derakon> | Making the documentation more navigable is not exactly a high priority if it requires adding extra text every time I want there to be a link. |
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| --- Log closed Wed Jun 24 00:00:26 2009 |