| --- Log opened Wed Jun 03 00:00:52 2009 |
| 00:02 | | You're now known as TheWatcher[T-2] |
| 00:04 | | You're now known as TheWatcher[zZzZ] |
| 01:05 | <@GeekSoldier> | ?! |
| 01:16 | < Rhamphoryncus> | Derakon: So the tiles are done in blender, then composited? |
| 01:24 | <@Derakon> | The tiles are done in Blender, rendered to PNG, and then used as sprites in the game, yeah. |
| 01:24 | <@Derakon> | The "tiling glitch" is selecting the wrong sprite for a given tile arrangement. |
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| 02:59 | < Rhamphoryncus> | Derakon: the uncovered bit at the far right? |
| 03:02 | <@Derakon> | Right. |
| 03:09 | | * Vornicus ponders VornBall more: Alternatively I could just use polys, which make my life a hell of a lot easier in a lot of ways. |
| 03:09 | <@Derakon> | Polys instead of what, voxels? |
| 03:09 | < Rhamphoryncus> | do healpix :D |
| 03:11 | <@Vornicus> | Polys instead of beziers or tiles. |
| 03:11 | <@Vornicus> | 2d sidescroller, because 3d makes for all sorts of crazy shit. |
| 03:11 | <@Vornicus> | Rham: how about not. |
| 03:14 | <@Derakon> | If you want 2D, you don't even need to worry about polys... |
| 03:14 | <@Derakon> | (Though you can of course make 2D gameplay in a 3D world) |
| 03:16 | < Rhamphoryncus> | Vornicus: rendering or mechanics? |
| 03:19 | <@Vornicus> | Mechanics. |
| 03:20 | <@Vornicus> | Though... if I could get the kind of variety that N does in tiles, then I don't have to worry at all. |
| 03:22 | <@Vornicus> | Rendering I could do a lot of ways - tiles, giant tiles, full-size arts (probably not) |
| 03:24 | <@Derakon> | N doesn't have that many tile types. |
| 03:24 | <@Vornicus> | No, but it's still a large number. |
| 03:25 | <@Vornicus> | N+ has even more, including some that look /really/ cool. |
| 03:25 | <@Derakon> | Three levels of slope, concave, and convex, in four orientations. |
| 03:25 | <@Derakon> | Plus filled and empty, that's 20 tiles. |
| 03:25 | <@Derakon> | ...wait, no, because the non-45° slope need multiple tiles. |
| 03:25 | <@Derakon> | Call it more like 38 tiles. |
| 03:29 | <@Vornicus> | N+ has, in addition to N's: two angles of spike, small 45 and negative-space small 45, negative-space long angle, and outside and inside corners. |
| 03:30 | <@Vornicus> | Ooop, the negative-space long angle is in N too. |
| 03:31 | <@Vornicus> | I'd want pretty much that, and maybe a few others, like larger curves. |
| 03:37 | <@Derakon> | Well, the more tiles you have, the less feasible it is to make differently-flavored variants of those tiles. |
| 03:39 | <@Vornicus> | True. |
| 03:39 | <@Vornicus> | Also the full list in N is 34 tiles. |
| 03:42 | < Reiv> | Is N the ninjazoom game? |
| 03:42 | <@Derakon> | N: Way of the Ninja. |
| 03:42 | < Reiv> | right |
| 03:42 | | * Reiv never actually completed that. >_> |
| 03:42 | <@Vornicus> | Nor has Mol, and he's the best on the network. |
| 03:43 | <@Derakon> | At this point "completion" seems a dubious prospect given the sheer number of levels. |
| 03:43 | <@Vornicus> | there's 500 levels. |
| 03:43 | <@Vornicus> | Though you can beat an average level in 20 seconds or so. |
| 03:43 | <@Vornicus> | ...if you manage to live. |
| 03:44 | < Reiv> | Oh. Uh. |
| 03:44 | <@Derakon> | Practically speaking it seems to be taking you upwards of half an hour to beat some levels. |
| 03:44 | <@Vornicus> | Or in some cases, a week. |
| 03:44 | < Reiv> | Okay, I never managed, er, to beat the first set? |
| 03:44 | <@Vornicus> | like, say, 29.3 |
| 03:44 | < Reiv> | There was like, five. |
| 03:49 | | Consul [~dmlandrum@Nightstar-833.dsl.sfldmi.ameritech.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] |
| 03:53 | <@Vornicus> | One of the things I'm thinking about is making the ball considerably larger than the tiles. |
| 03:55 | <@Vornicus> | like, 2x2, maybe. |
| 03:55 | <@Derakon> | Well, the bigger you make the ball, the fewer tile types you have to make. At the extreme, you can build the map up out of pixels. :) |
| 03:56 | <@Vornicus> | On the other hand the bigger the ball is, the larger the curves have to be for halfpipes to be feasible, and the more tile types I need for that. |
| 03:57 | <@Derakon> | Unless you're willing to accept halfpipes made of straight segments. |
| 04:04 | <@Vornicus> | Indeed, it appears that for most situations, I need n tiles for a radius-n value. |
| 04:04 | <@Vornicus> | circle. |
| 04:05 | <@Derakon> | If you want detailed terrain, you basically have two options: vector graphics, or pixel/alpha-mask graphics (à la Worms). |
| 04:06 | <@Vornicus> | Right. |
| 04:06 | <@Vornicus> | Pixel/alpha max stuff is not a good idea when I deal with something this. |
| 04:07 | <@Derakon> | Something this what? |
| 04:07 | <@Vornicus> | something this large. |
| 04:07 | <@Vornicus> | I can't type right now |
| 04:07 | <@Derakon> | How large are we talking? |
| 04:07 | <@Vornicus> | And also it doesn't work well when you have momentum physics. |
| 04:09 | <@Vornicus> | I figure an individual scene would be about N-sized, or maybe about twice that size. |
| 04:09 | <@Vornicus> | Though I think I have made a decision: I will use tiles to store stuff. |
| 04:10 | <@Derakon> | Okay. :) |
| 04:10 | <@Derakon> | Generally my opinion when it comes to game design is that your game should solve at most one hard problem. |
| 04:11 | <@Derakon> | Anything more than that and you need to have a team to help you write it. |
| 04:11 | <@Vornicus> | Someone needs to explain that to Toady. |
| 04:11 | <@Derakon> | Heh. |
| 04:12 | <@Derakon> | Fusillade's hard problem was a BulletML parser. Jetblade RL's is procedurally-generated levels. My Bejeweled clone's was learning to use PyGame. |
| 04:23 | <@Vornicus> | Okay, first things first, I need graphics. 64x64 sounds like a decent size. |
| 04:23 | <@Derakon> | I did 50x50 with allowance for overflow for Jetblade. |
| 04:24 | <@Derakon> | E.g. for the grass tiles, the grass itself extends beyond the hitbox. |
| 04:24 | | * Vornicus nods. |
| 04:25 | <@Derakon> | For example: http://derakon.dyndns.org/~chriswei/games/jbrl/collision/player3.png |
| 04:25 | <@Derakon> | And added fun, the first mapgen image I put up for JBRL: http://derakon.dyndns.org/~chriswei/games/jbrl/mapgen1.png |
| 04:26 | | gnolam [lenin@Nightstar-1382.A163.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [Quit: Z?] |
| 04:39 | <@Vornicus> | ....holy god I love make -j |
| 04:39 | <@Vornicus> | "Hi, I've got 8 processors. You can use 7." |
| 04:41 | <@Derakon> | Whee parallelization. |
| 04:45 | < Reiv> | ... you have 8 processors? |
| 04:46 | <@Derakon> | Vorn has a brand-spanking-new Powermac. |
| 04:47 | <@Vornicus> | It's really four, but they've all got hyperthreading. |
| 04:47 | <@Vornicus> | So it acts like 8, and I get 8 bars on my process manager. |
| 04:50 | < Reiv> | Oh, shiny |
| 04:50 | < Reiv> | Had thought he'd ressurected his dead one, not gotten a new one. |
| 05:06 | <@Vornicus> | No, this is a brand new one. |
| 05:07 | <@Vornicus> | It's a lot quieter, a lot prettier, a lot more powerful, and so forth. |
| 05:07 | <@Vornicus> | And I thought the last one I had was easy to deal with on the inside: this one I can literally slide a drive in and it works. |
| 05:09 | <@Vornicus> | ...no, I definitely want actual curves: that way speeding into a ceiling curve actually works. |
| 05:09 | <@Derakon> | Er? |
| 05:10 | <@Derakon> | What wouldn't work about tiles? |
| 05:10 | <@Vornicus> | No, no |
| 05:10 | <@Vornicus> | Tiles, with actual curve shapes. |
| 05:10 | <@Vornicus> | As opposed to successive angles. |
| 05:10 | <@Derakon> | Ah. |
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| 06:38 | <@Vornicus> | Okay, step 1 I guess, steal N's level format and see if I can't render that. |
| 06:38 | <@Derakon> | Luck. |
| 06:38 | <@Vornicus> | Der: haa-haa! |
| 06:38 | <@Vornicus> | oh, that was luck, not lucky. |
| 06:38 | | * Vornicus is pretty sure this won't be too hard. |
| 06:39 | <@Derakon> | Heh. |
| 06:40 | <@Vornicus> | Hey, that's not bad at all. It's a plain text format, the first segment is a thing that specifies solid tiles, one printable character per, up then right. |
| 06:42 | <@Vornicus> | The demo data is considerably more complicated, but I don't much care. |
| 06:46 | <@Vornicus> | erp, down then right, I can't read. |
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| 06:57 | <@Vornicus> | N's world size is 19 tiles by 33 tiles, with a 1 tile border on all sides. |
| 07:07 | <@Vornicus> | Heh, I love math. I figured out the exact number of objects I need to make to get a circle of radius r: r. |
| 07:19 | | Derakon is now known as Derakon[AFK] |
| 07:19 | <@Vornicus> | well, minus the number of pythagorean triples with c = r. |
| 08:21 | | * Vornicus goes to get pygame. |
| 08:21 | <@Vornicus> | It helps to make sure the library is there first before trying to use it. |
| 08:30 | | * Vornicus drags in other frameworks first. Man, that's pretty damn easy. |
| 09:07 | | You're now known as TheWatcher |
| 09:14 | <@Vornicus> | Wheeee pygame |
| 09:50 | | Vornicus is now known as Vornicus-Latens |
| 10:48 | | Rhamphoryncus [~rhamph@Nightstar-7168.ed.shawcable.net] has quit [Quit: Rhamphoryncus] |
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| 10:56 | <@gnolam> | Hmm. Job offer. |
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| 11:05 | <@TheWatcher> | yey, joarb? |
| 11:08 | <@gnolam> | Looks like the radiophysics department managed to squeeze some money out the Radiation Safety Authority for further development of RadiaX. So they want someone who knows the system... and that would be me. |
| 11:09 | <@TheWatcher> | Woot |
| 11:11 | | AnnoDomini [AnnoDomini@Nightstar-29435.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #Code |
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| 11:18 | <@gnolam> | "I can promise the salary won't be fantastic, and the only benefits are your own room and free coffee" |
| 11:18 | <@gnolam> | But it would look good on my CV. |
| 11:20 | | * gnolam applies and sees where it all leads. |
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| 12:07 | <@MyCatVerbs> | gnolam: comrade, did I hear "free coffee"? Score! |
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| 12:50 | <@gnolam> | :) |
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| 20:34 | <@gnolam> | http://where.blip.tv/file/2168377/ |
| 20:34 | | * gnolam drools. |
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| 20:38 | <@ToxicFrog> | message -> table |
| 20:38 | <@ToxicFrog> | table -> keyvalue+ |
| 20:39 | <@Derakon> | Gnolam: nice. |
| 20:39 | <@ToxicFrog> | keyvalue -> SO value value SI |
| 20:39 | | * Vornicus tries to remember how to write postscript. |
| 20:40 | <@ToxicFrog> | value -> typechar STX DATA ETX |
| 20:40 | <@ToxicFrog> | typechar -> DC1 | DC2 | DC3 | DC4 |
| 20:40 | <@ToxicFrog> | (== string, table, boolean, integer) |
| 20:40 | <@ToxicFrog> | I think that'll work. |
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| 22:19 | <@gnolam> | Dammit. |
| 22:19 | <@gnolam> | I /still/ can't read about the Phong model without thinking "thong model, hurr hurr hurr". |
| 22:19 | <@gnolam> | I thought that would eventually pass. |
| 22:22 | | * TheWatcher patpats |
| 23:07 | <@Consul> | "Girl, show me that Phong!" |
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| 23:11 | <@ToxicFrog> | To me, Phong always evokes the kernel avatar in Reboot~ |
| 23:22 | <@MyCatVerbs> | To me, Phong invokes rubbery plastic. |
| 23:23 | < Namegduf> | I'm going to be honest; I thought similarly to ToxicFrog here. |
| 23:23 | <@Vornicus> | Phong is a race in SPace Empires. |
| 23:25 | <@gnolam> | I also have an urge to model and render a piece of cured meat, just so I can say I used Biltong Phong shading. |
| 23:32 | <@Derakon> | Phong just means the render mode to me. :\ |
| 23:33 | <@TheWatcher> | Phong just remins me of how much graphics has changed; phongs really aren't what they used to be, after all. |
| 23:34 | | You're now known as TheWatcher[T-2] |
| 23:36 | | You're now known as TheWatcher[zZzZ] |
| --- Log closed Thu Jun 04 00:00:06 2009 |