| --- Log opened Fri Jan 30 00:00:24 2009 |
| 00:47 | <@C_tiger> | who's good (or even barely competent with linux?) |
| 00:48 | <@C_tiger> | I'm trying to figure out how to install perl 5.10.0 multithreaded on a remote server in /usr/local/bin/ |
| 00:58 | | You're now known as TheWatcher[T-2] |
| 01:00 | | You're now known as TheWatcher[zZzZ] |
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| 02:05 | <@Derakon> | New asset structure: data/patterns is gone. Instead, data/courses has one directory for each course, which includes the course definition file and all pattern files for that course. |
| 02:05 | <@Derakon> | This makes it impossible for courses to share patterns except by copy and paste, but makes it much simpler to install new courses. |
| 02:19 | <@Derakon> | ...okay, I need to adjust the inflector mechanics slightly. |
| 02:19 | <@Derakon> | On the Windmill pattern (advanced course), you can park right near the emitter and use the inflector, and you get bombs fast. |
| 02:19 | <@Derakon> | At basically no risk since the bullets are moving so quickly. |
| 02:59 | <@Reiver> | Interesting idea. |
| 02:59 | <@Reiver> | Does this mean you can't make custom courses by pick'n'mixing patterns? |
| 02:59 | <@Reiver> | Without digging through individual files, I mean? |
| 02:59 | <@Derakon> | You can, but you have to copy the pattern files. |
| 03:00 | <@Derakon> | Basically this is a tradeoff between ease of installing entirely new courses and difficulty of re-using patterns in multiple courses. I'm taking a calculated risk that the former will be more common than the latter. |
| 03:03 | <@ToxicFrog> | Why does having the patterns seperate make it harder to install courses? |
| 03:04 | <@Derakon> | Because I had separate course and pattern directories. I suppose I could just put them all into one directory. |
| 03:05 | <@Derakon> | It looks a bit untidy, but it does make installation easy without breaking same-pattern-multiple-courses. |
| 03:06 | <@ToxicFrog> | Or, you know |
| 03:06 | <@ToxicFrog> | Distribute them as archives with the directory structure intact |
| 03:06 | <@ToxicFrog> | "unpack this into your game directory. Play." |
| 03:07 | <@Derakon> | I must be misunderstanding something... |
| 03:07 | <@Derakon> | Description time! |
| 03:07 | <@Derakon> | My initial setup had data/courses and data/patterns. Files in /courses referred to files in /patterns. To install a new course, you would have to copy a file into /courses and any new patterns into /patterns, a two-step operation. |
| 03:08 | <@Derakon> | My second attempt removed /patterns, and put subdirectories into /courses. To install a new course, you would copy a directory (containing the course XML file and all pattern BML files) into /courses. |
| 03:08 | <@Derakon> | My third attempt, just now, puts all course and pattern files into /courses. To install a new course, you copy the relevant files into /courses. |
| 03:10 | <@Derakon> | So what kind of approach were you thinking of, TF? |
| 03:13 | <@ToxicFrog> | The same as the first one. |
| 03:14 | <@ToxicFrog> | Except the install procedure is: |
| 03:14 | <@ToxicFrog> | - download the tarball containing courses/* and patterns/* |
| 03:14 | <@ToxicFrog> | - untar it |
| 03:14 | <@ToxicFrog> | Just like every other game with mods that span multiple subdirectories. |
| 03:14 | <@Derakon> | Keep in mind that the vast majority of my target market will be using Windows. Tarballs are strange foreign things. |
| 03:15 | <@ToxicFrog> | Well, zip files then. |
| 03:15 | <@ToxicFrog> | Seriously, at least 90% of such things I've ever installed have instructions that boil down to "put this zip file in your game directory. Unzip it. Play." and it puts all the files where they need to go. |
| 03:19 | <@Derakon> | I guess I'd been running under the assumption that unzipping an archive would replace directories in your filesystem with directories in your archive, instead of installing files in the archive into directories on your filesystem. |
| 03:21 | <@Derakon> | Okay, back to method 1~ |
| 03:28 | <@McMartin> | Only Mac Bundles do this, making Baby Subversion Cry |
| 03:28 | <@Derakon> | By "mac bundle" you mean .sit archives? |
| 03:28 | <@McMartin> | No, I mean .app, .nib, &c |
| 03:28 | <@McMartin> | .inform |
| 03:29 | <@Derakon> | I've never heard of .nib before. |
| 03:29 | <@McMartin> | Tends to live in .app/Contents/Resources/$LANG.lproj, and represents a GUI element |
| 03:29 | <@McMartin> | N____ Interface Builder. |
| 03:29 | <@McMartin> | I forget the N. |
| 03:30 | <@Derakon> | Anyway, assuming I understand this correctly: someone makes a new course and some new patterns for that course. They create an archive that contains "foo.app/Contents/Resources/data/courses/mycourse.xml" and "foo.app/Contents/Resources/data/patterns/somepattern.bml" etc. The user puts the archive into the same directory as foo.app, unarchives it, plays, and has the new course. Right/ |
| 03:30 | <@McMartin> | Right. |
| 03:30 | <@Derakon> | Cool. |
| 03:32 | <@Reiver> | The only problem with 1 is if you want to uninstall a course. |
| 03:33 | <@Derakon> | With any luck, that'll be rare~ |
| 03:33 | <@Reiver> | I suspect the real issue you end up with is that if you have a lot of 3rdp courses, the interdependancies would mean that everyone provides their own copy /anyway/ |
| 03:33 | <@Derakon> | Right, this is more useful if one person is doing several courses. |
| 03:33 | <@Reiver> | At which point what you probably want to do is ensure that there is proper version control going on. |
| 03:33 | <@Derakon> | They can say "Here's an archive of all my work, just unpack it" and there's no duplicates. |
| 03:33 | <@Reiver> | Aye. |
| 03:34 | <@Reiver> | The only concern is if someone else tweaked their stuff and didn't change file names. |
| 03:34 | <@Derakon> | Then it'll get overwritten, and logistically there's nothing I can do about that. |
| 03:34 | <@Derakon> | People want to change files around, they should make backups first. |
| 03:35 | <@Reiver> | Including 'installing multiple mods who use the same 3rdparty patterns'? |
| 03:36 | <@Derakon> | Yep. |
| 03:36 | <@Reiver> | ... hm |
| 03:36 | <@Derakon> | So that's another argument for approach 2. |
| 03:36 | <@Derakon> | Every course is self-contained. |
| 03:36 | <@Reiver> | At which point you risk massive bloat. |
| 03:36 | <@Derakon> | As long as you don't have coursename conflicts, anyway. |
| 03:36 | <@Derakon> | The question is, realistically, how many people are going to be using the same pattern in multiple courses? |
| 03:37 | <@Reiver> | But instead you get no version conflicts. |
| 03:37 | <@Reiver> | ... one point of query: |
| 03:37 | <@Reiver> | How big are these things? |
| 03:39 | <@Derakon> | The pattern files? About 1.5KB each. |
| 03:42 | | * Derakon changes his mind. Back to one directory per course~ |
| 03:42 | <@Derakon> | Uninstallation is miles easier this way. |
| 03:42 | <@Reiver> | And at this size, I don't think you really need to worry about file efficiency. |
| 03:43 | <@Reiver> | The only downside is that you can't have a directory of patterns allowing people to make custom courses in-game by selecting patterns from a list. |
| 03:43 | <@Reiver> | Then again I have no idea if that would have any relevance anyway... |
| 03:44 | <@Derakon> | Hooray for deep undo queues~ |
| 03:51 | | * Derakon uploads alpha-12: http://derakon.dyndns.org/~chriswei/temp/bulletml12.tgz |
| 03:52 | <@Derakon> | Changes in this version: added sound effects (feedback on these, please!); rearranged course/pattern structure; fixed keyboard configuration; tweaked some patterns. |
| 05:55 | <@ToxicFrog> | Well. |
| 05:56 | <@ToxicFrog> | Video capture appears to work properly for a few seconds after I kill Nautilus (the desktop/filesystem browser). Then the corruption returns. |
| 05:56 | <@ToxicFrog> | However, if I nautilus --quit, or kill && stop, it doesn't go away. |
| 05:56 | <@ToxicFrog> | So it's something in the nautilus startup sequence that's temporarily fixing it. |
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| 16:31 | <@Consul> | Okay, todays xkcd is cute and all, but it seems a little too random. Given Randall's penchant for subtle references, I now have to risk looking stupid and ask: Is there, anywhere in the world of computer science, a construct called a "duckling loop"? |
| 16:32 | | Derakon[AFK] is now known as Derakon |
| 16:34 | <@Consul> | If there isn't, then I believe there should be. |
| 16:36 | <@Consul> | Okay, this seems to be some reference to a viral video. |
| 16:36 | <@Consul> | Never mind. |
| 16:36 | <@Consul> | I'm glad I have no friends. Nobody ever sends me any viral crap. |
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| --- Log closed Fri Jan 30 18:50:01 2009 |
| --- Log opened Fri Jan 30 18:51:07 2009 |
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| 19:02 | | * Derakon adds a new dependency on Numeric, and support for transparent text. |
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| 19:17 | <@Derakon> | Wow, adding a splash screen really de-emphasizes the amount of time spent loading assets. |
| 19:35 | < Vornicus> | That's why you've got splash screens. |
| 19:35 | < Vornicus> | But, uh |
| 19:36 | < Vornicus> | How much assets do you have? |
| 19:36 | <@Derakon> | Mostly it's the megabomb animation. |
| 19:36 | <@Derakon> | Which is 12MB. |
| 19:36 | <@Derakon> | I estimate that asset loading takes maybe two seconds. |
| 19:36 | < Vornicus> | Ah. |
| 19:47 | <@Derakon> | Bah. My splash screen fadeout could be a lot more efficient if surface.fill() didn't cause a bus error. >.< |
| 19:48 | <@Derakon> | #python seems to be embroiled in some kind of interpreter implementation dispute (CPython vs. JPython), so they're no help. |
| 19:48 | <@Derakon> | And #gamedev is helping someone work out their main loop. |
| 19:48 | < Vornicus> | #pygame |
| 19:48 | < Vornicus> | on freenode. |
| 19:48 | <@Derakon> | ...duh. |
| 19:56 | <@Derakon> | Man, when #gamedev has a netsplit, it doesn't mess around. |
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| 20:44 | <@Derakon> | Thoughts on http://sfbay.craigslist.org/pen/sys/1013388150.html ? |
| 20:44 | <@Derakon> | Thoughts on http://sfbay.craigslist.org/pen/sys/1013388150.html ? |
| 20:44 | | mode/#code [+v Derakon] by Derakon |
| 20:44 | | ServerMode/#Code [-v Derakon] by Troika.TX.US.Nightstar.Net |
| 20:44 | <@Derakon> | ... |
| 20:45 | <@Derakon> | Why won't chanserv let me send a URL? I'm a frickin' op. |
| 20:48 | <@ToxicFrog> | Try it now. |
| 20:48 | <@Derakon> | Thoughts on http://sfbay.craigslist.org/pen/sys/1013388150.html ? |
| 20:48 | <@Derakon> | Nyet. |
| 20:49 | <@Serah> | I can tell you! |
| 20:49 | <@Serah> | It's because you are desynced. |
| 20:49 | | mode/#code [-o Derakon] by Derakon |
| 20:49 | | mode/#code [+o Derakon] by ChanServ |
| 20:49 | <@Derakon> | Thoughts on http://sfbay.craigslist.org/pen/sys/1013388150.html ? |
| 20:49 | <@Derakon> | There we go. |
| 20:49 | <@Serah> | Now you can! |
| 20:50 | <@Serah> | I don't know who is supposed to be opped. |
| 20:50 | <@Derakon> | Ehh, don't worry about it. |
| 20:51 | | mode/#code [+o Attilla] by Serah |
| 20:51 | <@Serah> | But... all I have is my worry! |
| 20:51 | <@Derakon> | And now you don't even have that any more! Muahahaha. |
| 20:51 | | mode/#code [+oo UndeadAnno Vornicus] by Serah |
| 21:46 | <@Derakon> | There, circular meters. http://derakon.dyndns.org/~chriswei/temp/bulletmlscreen11.png |
| 21:49 | <@Derakon> | Thoughts? |
| 21:49 | <@McMartin> | Score and multiplier should really also go at the top of the screen too |
| 21:49 | <@McMartin> | I keep flying over the debug info ;_; |
| 21:49 | <@Derakon> | The lower-right sector now dims its text if you fly on it. |
| 21:49 | <@Derakon> | But yeah, score and multiplier should be on the top. |
| 21:49 | <@Derakon> | Then I'll consolidate FPS, pattern, and bullets in the lower-right I guess. |
| 21:49 | <@McMartin> | Hey, that's a new emitter |
| 21:50 | <@Derakon> | Pattern and number of bullets I kinda feel should always be displayed, the former so you know what's coming, and the latter so you can feel the awe~ |
| 21:50 | <@Derakon> | Yeah, I didn't really like tho old one. |
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| 22:02 | | * McMartin sets about doing horrible things to OSX's security. |
| 22:03 | <@McMartin> | (Writing installers always makes me feel leery) |
| 22:03 | <@Derakon> | Heh. |
| 22:03 | <@Derakon> | ...dangit, my idea to automate fading text when the player is near has been thwarted by my process of drawing text one line at a time. |
| 22:04 | <@Derakon> | So only one line at a time gets faded. >.< |
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| 23:14 | <@Derakon> | Okay, how's this interface look? http://derakon.dyndns.org/~chriswei/temp/bulletmlscreen12.png |
| 23:14 | <@Derakon> | My only concern is that there's four different sections now. |
| 23:15 | <@Derakon> | The stuff in the upper left and lower right fade out when you get close to them. |
| 23:15 | <@McMartin> | Better |
| 23:15 | <@McMartin> | I take it FPS goes away in release. |
| 23:15 | <@Derakon> | Yeah, probably. |
| 23:15 | <@Derakon> | Maybe have a commandline option to display it. |
| 23:16 | <@Derakon> | I need a flashier way to display the score multiplier. :\ |
| 23:16 | <@Derakon> | Maybe make it another meter? |
| 23:18 | <@McMartin> | Or at least have a "x blah" |
| 23:19 | <@McMartin> | If you can get a flashier free font for your numbers... |
| 23:19 | <@Derakon> | I'm using a fixed-width font, mainly to make the highscores display easier to format. |
| 23:19 | <@Derakon> | I suppose I can stop using printf there though if it'll snazz up the display elsewhere. Or I could use a different font for in-game numbers, but that'd be kinda odd. |
| 23:20 | <@Vornicus> | Many non-fixed-width fonts have fixed-width numbers. |
| 23:20 | <@Vornicus> | If not most. |
| 23:20 | <@Derakon> | How about http://www.dafont.com/planet-kosmos.font ? |
| 23:21 | <@Derakon> | (Highscores table has both text and numbers, note) |
| 23:21 | <@McMartin> | High scores should be fixed-width, yes. |
| 23:21 | <@McMartin> | But during the game, It can look cooler |
| 23:21 | <@McMartin> | I think that font would be fine for the multiplier |
| 23:21 | <@Derakon> | Ooh, that says "free for personal use", which implies not-free for commercial use. |
| 23:21 | <@McMartin> | Hrm, yeah. Problematic. |
| 23:22 | <@Derakon> | Pit, it's a nice font. |
| 23:25 | <@Derakon> | ...finding royalty-free fonts is proving more difficult than I anticipated. |
| 23:26 | <@McMartin> | Yes. |
| 23:26 | <@McMartin> | There was a post up on Monk's Brew recently about this |
| 23:29 | <@Derakon> | Hm. http://www.dafont.com/hemi-head426.font is free but not as nice. |
| 23:32 | | * Derakon eyes http://www.dafont.com/galaxy-tail.font?l[]=10&l[]=1&text=0123456789 |
| 23:37 | <@Derakon> | ...okay. The readme for Planet Kosmos says "Currently all of the typefaces in the planet Font Family are CD-Ware and free for non-commercial use. That means, for each typeface you want to license for commercial use, you must mail us a CD of something you like: Music you have made, love or designed the cover for or a multimedia or software title..." |
| 23:37 | <@Derakon> | "Such a CD in our mailbox buys you a personal, non-transferable but everlasting license to use that typeface for commercial projects. And most probably a personal review of the CD from the font designer." |
| 23:37 | <@Derakon> | It's also copyright 1996. |
| 23:37 | <@Derakon> | I hope the email address is still valid. |
| 23:39 | <@McMartin> | Send him an .iso of your game~ |
| 23:39 | <@Derakon> | That's what I'm thinking. |
| 23:39 | <@McMartin> | Should probably get it running on Windows/Linux first, though. |
| 23:39 | <@Derakon> | Yeah. |
| 23:41 | | * Vornicus should learn how to make fonts. |
| 23:46 | <@Derakon> | Aaaand here's the afternoon glare. |
| 23:46 | <@Derakon> | Hullo, dust I can't normally see! |
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| --- Log closed Sat Jan 31 00:00:35 2009 |