| --- Log opened Wed Jan 21 00:00:37 2009 |
| 00:05 | | UndeadAnno [~farkoff@Nightstar-28984.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Quit: Go in wall is poison.] |
| 00:41 | | You're now known as TheWatcher[t-2] |
| 00:44 | | You're now known as TheWatcher[zZzZ] |
| 00:52 | | Derakon[AFK] is now known as Derakon |
| 01:03 | | Attilla [~The.Attil@Nightstar-9469.cdif.cable.ntl.com] has quit [Connection reset by peer] |
| 01:04 | | Attilla [~The.Attil@Nightstar-9469.cdif.cable.ntl.com] has joined #code |
| 01:04 | | mode/#code [+o Attilla] by ChanServ |
| 01:14 | | gnolam [lenin@Nightstar-1382.A163.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [Quit: Z?] |
| 01:15 | | Attilla [~The.Attil@Nightstar-9469.cdif.cable.ntl.com] has quit [Quit: <Insert Humorous and/or serious exit message here>] |
| 02:15 | <@ToxicFrog> | Fuck you, Firefox. |
| 02:16 | <@ToxicFrog> | Fuck you and your shitty, bug-ridden, unhelpful Javascript implementation. |
| 02:16 | <@ToxicFrog> | Fuck you in hell, forever. |
| 02:16 | <@McMartin> | ? |
| 02:16 | <@McMartin> | Doesn't FF use the ECMA reference implementation? |
| 02:17 | < Derakon> | Firefox is leagues better than IE. |
| 02:18 | <@ToxicFrog> | McMartin: if the ECMA reference implementation includes the ability to report errors in your javascript |
| 02:18 | <@ToxicFrog> | - with no error message |
| 02:18 | <@ToxicFrog> | - on a line that should have executed before an alert() that you saw |
| 02:18 | <@ToxicFrog> | - and which is a comment |
| 02:18 | <@ToxicFrog> | Then yes. |
| 02:18 | < Derakon> | ...check your caches? |
| 02:19 | <@ToxicFrog> | Derakon: did that. You can in fact click the error message and it will open the script it was excecuting with the erroring line conveniently highlighted for you. |
| 02:19 | <@ToxicFrog> | This seems tied to the use of AddEventListener in some way. |
| 02:20 | <@ToxicFrog> | Since if I don't use that, it doesn't start generating bullshit errors. |
| 02:20 | <@ToxicFrog> | Of course, if I don't use that, the entire script is useless. |
| 02:21 | <@ToxicFrog> | In fact, if I call window.addEventListener, it reports a blank error on that line |
| 02:21 | <@ToxicFrog> | if I call unsafeWindow.addEventListener, it reports a blank error on line 98, which is a comment. |
| 02:22 | <@McMartin> | Lexer error. |
| 02:24 | <@ToxicFrog> | Except that at this point it's already executed roughly two hundred lines of the script, and I can see the results and the alert boxes. |
| 02:45 | <@ToxicFrog> | Ok, got that sorted |
| 02:46 | <@ToxicFrog> | window.addEventListener doesn't work |
| 02:46 | <@ToxicFrog> | unsafeWindow.addEventListener doesn't work |
| 02:46 | <@ToxicFrog> | window.wrappedJSObject.onwhatever= does. |
| 02:46 | <@ToxicFrog> | Unfortunately, firefox appears to not implement the DOM node click() method. |
| 02:53 | | Vornicus [~vorn@Admin.Nightstar.Net] has quit [Quit: ] |
| 03:06 | | * Derakon adds very rudimentary support for picking which course you want. |
| 03:07 | < Derakon> | Further support requires some UI thinking. |
| 03:12 | | MyCatVerbs [~mycatverb@Nightstar-13709.lurkingfox.co.uk] has quit [Client exited] |
| 03:12 | | MyCatVerbs [~mycatverb@Nightstar-13709.lurkingfox.co.uk] has joined #code |
| 03:12 | | mode/#code [+o MyCatVerbs] by ChanServ |
| 03:16 | < Derakon> | Our lesson for today is: % has higher priority than +. |
| 03:16 | < Derakon> | So doing "currentCourse = currentCourse + 1 % len(courses)" will get you into trouble. |
| 03:18 | <@McMartin> | Eheh |
| 03:25 | <@MyCatVerbs> | Derakon: think of % as a bastardization related to * and /, and it will make sense. |
| 03:28 | < Derakon> | Yeah, I wasn't really thinking when I wrote that. |
| 03:28 | < Derakon> | I was just "Oh, yeah, mod will save me from an index-out-of-bounds error here". |
| 04:30 | | ToxicFrog [~ToxicFrog@Admin.Nightstar.Net] has quit [Operation timed out] |
| 04:34 | | ToxicFrog [~ToxicFrog@Admin.Nightstar.Net] has joined #code |
| 04:34 | | mode/#code [+o ToxicFrog] by ChanServ |
| 06:09 | | Alek is now known as Alek|gone |
| 06:25 | | Derakon is now known as Derakon[AFK] |
| 07:10 | | Reiv [ReivTop@Nightstar-23109.ipnet.xnet.co.nz] has joined #Code |
| 07:36 | | UndeadAnno [~farkoff@Nightstar-28984.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #Code |
| 08:13 | | Attilla [~The.Attil@Nightstar-9469.cdif.cable.ntl.com] has joined #code |
| 08:13 | | mode/#code [+o Attilla] by ChanServ |
| 09:35 | | You're now known as TheWatcher |
| 09:58 | | Vornicus [~vorn@Admin.Nightstar.Net] has joined #code |
| 09:58 | | mode/#code [+o Vornicus] by ChanServ |
| 10:25 | | Rhamphoryncus [~rhamph@Nightstar-7184.ed.shawcable.net] has quit [Quit: Rhamphoryncus] |
| 10:47 | | Orthianz [ReivTop@Nightstar-23472.ipnet.xnet.co.nz] has joined #Code |
| 10:48 | | Reiv [ReivTop@Nightstar-23109.ipnet.xnet.co.nz] has quit [Ping Timeout] |
| 11:27 | | Orthianz is now known as Orthia_Laptop |
| 11:28 | | Orthia_Laptop [ReivTop@Nightstar-23472.ipnet.xnet.co.nz] has left #Code [] |
| 11:33 | | UndeadAnno [~farkoff@Nightstar-28984.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Ping Timeout] |
| 12:30 | | Alek|gone [~omegaboot@Nightstar-27127.dsl.emhril.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping Timeout] |
| 12:32 | | Alek [~omegaboot@Nightstar-27127.dsl.emhril.sbcglobal.net] has joined #code |
| 13:35 | <@Attilla> | Hmm. How do you tell a Turning Point from a function without having to plot it?{ |
| 13:36 | <@Attilla> | (I mean assuming you know the functions values at say three points, how do you know the turning points? |
| 13:36 | <@Vornicus> | Calculus. |
| 13:37 | <@Attilla> | aww |
| 13:37 | <@Vornicus> | If you have the fhe function, you can take the derivative of that function (if it does not have a derivative almost everywhere, then it can't have a turning point in any real sense), and find the roots of that derivative, to find the minima and maxima of the function. |
| 13:38 | <@Vornicus> | If you're looking for inflection points instead (where it changes from curving down to curving up, like x^3 - x does at 0, or vice versa) you take the second derivative -- the derivative of the derivative -- and find hte roots of that. |
| 13:39 | <@Vornicus> | Note that for any set of points - even an infinite set of points - there are uncountably many functions that pass through those points. |
| 13:44 | <@Vornicus> | Fortunately symbolic differential calculus is not actually hard, and computer can be almost trivially programmed to do it. Knuth discusses this process in TAoCP vol. 1, when he talks about tree traversal. |
| 13:46 | < Tarinaky> | Suddenly reminds me of something a teacher said: "You can fit a line to an elephant with enough terms." |
| 13:47 | <@Vornicus> | Yes. |
| 13:48 | <@Vornicus> | (algebraic simplification of an expression is much harder than differential calculus.) |
| 13:48 | <@Attilla> | Yeah, I know computers can ace differential calculus but doing it by hand gets a little awkward. Especially the derivative of: R = A*(6 - 6*rho*r + rho^2*r^2)*exp(-(rho/2)*r) although now i'm remembering the rule on the derivative of exponents, where you reduce the exponent to simple multiplication or something like that? |
| 13:49 | <@Vornicus> | what variable are we deriving with respect to? |
| 13:49 | <@Attilla> | I assume r |
| 13:54 | <@Vornicus> | The things you need: (uv)' = u'v + uv'; (e^u)' = u'(e^u); (u + v)' = u' + v'; (ax^k)' = kax^(k-1) |
| 13:59 | <@Vornicus> | The rest is just hygeine; keep terms separated well apart, work on the smallest piece you can at any time. |
| 14:27 | | gnolam [lenin@Nightstar-1382.A163.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #Code |
| 14:27 | | mode/#code [+o gnolam] by ChanServ |
| 14:44 | | UndeadAnno [~farkoff@Nightstar-28984.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #Code |
| 14:50 | <@Consul> | Product Rule, Exponential Rule, Linearity, Power Rule. You forgot the Quotient Rule. :-) |
| 14:50 | <@Consul> | Which I unfortunately often get backwards, so I'll go look it up... |
| 14:51 | <@Consul> | Ah |
| 14:51 | <@Consul> | (u/v)' = (u'v - uv')/v^2 |
| 14:52 | <@Vornicus> | I didn't need the quotient rule. |
| 14:53 | <@Vornicus> | as the problem in question doesn't use it. |
| 14:53 | <@Consul> | Okay, I can now see that question. |
| 14:53 | <@Consul> | I suppose not. |
| 14:54 | <@Consul> | Now go back and do the entire thing in terms of limits. :-P |
| 14:54 | <@Vornicus> | WOuld actually be surprisingly easy. |
| 14:54 | <@Consul> | I hate limits, but at least I understand them now. |
| 15:02 | | * gnolam repeatedly stabs Google with a rusty shiv. |
| 15:04 | <@TheWatcher> | ? |
| 15:04 | <@TheWatcher> | What've they done now? |
| 15:06 | <@gnolam> | Their "helpful" "corrections" to your searches. |
| 15:07 | <@gnolam> | Normally, it's just extremely annoying, but this time I can't exclude their "correction", so the S/N ratio makes the search completely useless. |
| 15:08 | <@gnolam> | (Oh, and they still only properly support 7-bit ASCII, but that is for another discussion) |
| 16:16 | | Attilla [~The.Attil@Nightstar-9469.cdif.cable.ntl.com] has quit [Connection reset by peer] |
| 16:17 | | Attilla [~The.Attil@Nightstar-9469.cdif.cable.ntl.com] has joined #code |
| 16:17 | | mode/#code [+o Attilla] by ChanServ |
| 16:31 | | KBot [AnnoDomini@Nightstar-29103.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #Code |
| 16:32 | | KarmaBot [AnnoDomini@Nightstar-28984.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Ping Timeout] |
| 16:32 | | UndeadAnno [~farkoff@Nightstar-28984.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Ping Timeout] |
| 16:34 | | KBot is now known as KarmaBot |
| 16:39 | | UndeadAnno [~farkoff@Nightstar-29103.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #Code |
| 17:04 | <@Attilla> | Waaait, how do you integrate a sine function by hand? (I mean i'm trying to integrate by parts int(x^2*sin(x),x,0,pi) (in MatLab language, because it's easier to write than using LateX and stuff since that'll take time), but basically integrating (between 0 and pi) x^2 * sin(x) with respect to x |
| 17:05 | <@Attilla> | And I thought that'd separately be int(x^2,x,0,pi)*int(sin(x),x,0,pi) but doing the latter integral is kind of awkward by hand without a graphing calculator |
| 17:08 | <@Vornicus> | TO integrat a sine function by hand? Dunno. The way I was taught to integrate stuff I don't know is to guess. |
| 17:08 | <@Vornicus> | THough you can also do the taylor series thing. |
| 17:08 | <@Vornicus> | But really: integral of sin(x) dx is cos(x) |
| 17:13 | | You're now known as TheWatcher[afk] |
| 17:37 | | Rhamphoryncus [~rhamph@Nightstar-7184.ed.shawcable.net] has joined #code |
| 17:40 | | Attilla [~The.Attil@Nightstar-9469.cdif.cable.ntl.com] has quit [Connection reset by peer] |
| 17:40 | | Attilla [~The.Attil@Nightstar-9469.cdif.cable.ntl.com] has joined #code |
| 17:40 | | mode/#code [+o Attilla] by ChanServ |
| 17:44 | <@gnolam> | When in doubt, use Maxima. :) |
| 17:45 | <@Vornicus> | er, -cos(x), but |
| 18:21 | | You're now known as TheWatcher |
| 19:49 | | ToxicFrog [~ToxicFrog@Admin.Nightstar.Net] has quit [Client exited] |
| 20:01 | | Tarinaky [~Tarinaky@88.83.110.ns-10776] has quit [Client exited] |
| 20:03 | | Tarinaky [~Tarinaky@88.83.110.ns-10776] has joined #code |
| 20:20 | | Tarinaky [~Tarinaky@88.83.110.ns-10776] has quit [Client exited] |
| 20:21 | | Tarinaky [~Tarinaky@88.83.110.ns-10776] has joined #code |
| 20:26 | | Tarinaky [~Tarinaky@88.83.110.ns-10776] has quit [Client exited] |
| 20:28 | | Tarinaky [~Tarinaky@88.83.110.ns-10776] has joined #code |
| 20:37 | < C_tiger> | it's |
| 20:37 | < C_tiger> | erm. |
| 20:37 | < C_tiger> | sorry. |
| 20:37 | | * Vornicus patpats C |
| 21:27 | <@gnolam> | Cue "Liberty Bell". |
| 21:41 | <@Serah> | Anyone have an easy way to turn off the built-in laptop keyboard on a winbox? Short of opening the case and unplugging the keyboard itself. |
| 21:41 | <@Serah> | Because I won't do that. |
| 22:45 | | ToxicFrog [~ToxicFrog@Admin.Nightstar.Net] has joined #code |
| 22:45 | | mode/#code [+o ToxicFrog] by ChanServ |
| 22:50 | | ToxicFrog [~ToxicFrog@Admin.Nightstar.Net] has quit [Ping Timeout] |
| 22:53 | | ToxicFrog [~ToxicFrog@Admin.Nightstar.Net] has joined #code |
| 22:53 | | mode/#code [+o ToxicFrog] by ChanServ |
| 23:13 | <@McMartin> | re: integration: You nee Taylor Series, and you need to have already proved the nature of complex exponentials, which involves a bit of geometry and some hand-computed limits. |
| 23:13 | <@McMartin> | (Which also involves proving that Taylor Series work in the first place) |
| 23:30 | | Consul [~consul@Nightstar-2598.dsl.sfldmi.ameritech.net] has quit [Ping Timeout] |
| 23:35 | | UndeadAnno [~farkoff@Nightstar-29103.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Quit: "General! Strike me down, then have every last man, woman and child put to the sword. There's no point going on anymore, not now that it's all gone..." "At once, sire."] |
| --- Log closed Thu Jan 22 00:00:49 2009 |