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code logs -> 2008 -> Mon, 15 Dec 2008< code.20081214.log - code.20081216.log >
--- Log opened Mon Dec 15 00:00:13 2008
--- Day changed Mon Dec 15 2008
00:00 You're now known as TheWatcher[zZzZ]
01:02 Pink [~none@Nightstar-7066.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Connection reset by peer]
01:24 Finerty is now known as Vornicus
01:24 Pink [~none@Nightstar-7066.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #code
01:32 gnolam is now known as Quasimodo
01:36
<@Quasimodo>
"One CSS to style them all, One Javascript to script them, / One HTML to bring them all and in the browser bind them / In the Land of Fantasy where Standards mean something"
01:36 * Derakon snickers.
02:18 Quasimodo is now known as gnolam
02:19 Attilla [~The.Attil@Nightstar-9469.cdif.cable.ntl.com] has quit [Quit: <Insert Humorous and/or serious exit message here>]
03:28 gnolam [lenin@Nightstar-1382.A163.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [Quit: Z?]
04:49
< Vornicus>
Okay, you need to make a horizontal match that does not touch the first column... but the gem in the first column must be the same type as the matched gems. The gem in the first column will be removed too.
04:49
<@Derakon>
You know that you can make matches with any number of gems as long as it's >= 3, right?
04:50
< Vornicus>
Right
04:50
<@Derakon>
So I must be misunderstanding you then.
04:50
<@Derakon>
...ah. I see.
04:50
< Vornicus>
what I'm saying is: I have square gems in columns 1, 4, 5, 6, and when I hit the go, all four go.
04:50
<@Derakon>
Okay, that sucks. I'll fix it.
04:50
<@Derakon>
Thanks.
04:51
< Vornicus>
Doesn't work vertically on either end, doesn't work for any column other than the first.
04:52
< Vornicus>
...and that one was just Strange.
04:52
<@Derakon>
?
04:52
< Vornicus>
Idunno. I think I just saw things there.
04:57
<@Derakon>
So. Fix the matching bug. Clue matches before they trigger. Speed things up. Anything else?
04:58
< Vornicus>
Um. Make scoring appear on-board.
04:58
< Vornicus>
That'd be A Neat Trick though, I'd imagine.
04:58
<@Derakon>
Heh.
04:59
<@Derakon>
It's definitely more a nice-to-have than a requirement.
04:59
< Vornicus>
oh, and BRIGHTER
04:59
<@Derakon>
Ah, right, right.
05:00
< Vornicus>
I want /candy/, not stodgy paperweights.
05:00
<@Derakon>
Heh.
05:01
<@ToxicFrog>
You would think that Apple would just let people download older MacOS versions by now.
05:01
<@jerith>
TF: They're trying to kill it, though.
05:02
<@jerith>
Not turn it into a hobbyist OS.
05:03
< Vornicus>
I know there was a 7.5.3 download on the apple site somewhere, once.
05:04
<@ToxicFrog>
...hmm. You're right. 7.5.x and earlier *are* available.
05:04
<@ToxicFrog>
Sadly, the earliest version that boots reliably in SheepShaver is 8.5~
05:04
< Vornicus>
"sheepshaver"?
05:05
<@ToxicFrog>
PowerPC emulator.
05:05 * jerith says "Pah!" to your PowerPC emulator!
05:06
<@jerith>
I have my very own PowerPC right here.
05:06
<@ToxicFrog>
Finally decided to migrate away from ARDI as (1) Iron Helix is unplayable in it, (2) It only does 680x0, and (3) it won't do higher than 7.0 (and only officially supports up to 6.x)
05:06
<@ToxicFrog>
Yes, well, I don't.
05:06
<@jerith>
Literally at my fingertips, as it were.
05:06 * jerith grins.
05:06
<@jerith>
My projecteuler benchmarks were interesting.
05:07
<@jerith>
Everything came out in a different order.
05:07
<@ToxicFrog>
If I did, and if it would talk to my peripherals, I might use one.
05:08
<@ToxicFrog>
(Although I still wouldn't use MacOS natively; I'd install linux on it and run sheepshaver inside that)
05:08
<@Derakon>
Okay, matching bug fixed.
05:09
<@Derakon>
I was using an idiom someone suggested in #python as a replacement for the nonexistent ?: operator. Sadly it did not have the desired behavior.
05:09
<@jerith>
The main reason I run OSX on mentar is that it's not officially supported in Ubuntu.
05:09
<@jerith>
Um, no. The *main* reason is that I just haven't bothered.
05:09
<@jerith>
The primary rationalisation is the Ubuntu thing.
05:10
< Vornicus>
...you named your computer Mentar.
05:10
<@jerith>
OSX isn't a bad OS, though.
05:10
< Vornicus>
um
05:10
< Vornicus>
(a if cond else b)?
05:10
<@jerith>
Vorn: All my machines are the capital planets of interstellar empires.
05:10
<@ToxicFrog>
...ok
05:11
<@ToxicFrog>
The good news, OS 7.5.3 is indeed available from Apple
05:11
<@ToxicFrog>
The bad news, what on earth do I do with these files
05:11
< Vornicus>
IIRC the way it's done is, those are floppies.
05:11
<@ToxicFrog>
It says that it is "19 parts of a self-mounting Disk Copy image"
05:11
<@jerith>
mentar, terraprime (will replace terminus at some point), terminus, cetaganda and manticore are the ones I use.
05:11
<@ToxicFrog>
And indeed they're all .smi.bin or .part.bin
05:12
<@jerith>
terraprime's hardware used to be terra, so named because it ran Solaris.
05:14 * Derakon figures out a simple animation.
05:14
<@Derakon>
Move the lights around a bit.
05:14
< Vornicus>
If you can make them flash, like you grab a specular off a main face, that'd be awesome.
05:15
<@Derakon>
Unfortunately, Blender doesn't trivially do animated materials.
05:15
<@Derakon>
Maybe I can stick a light in the middle or something.
05:16
< Vornicus>
Like, the light rotates to the position where it would bounce a specular.
05:16
< Vornicus>
Indeed, these are gems, they should be shiny /anyway/.
05:16
<@Derakon>
They are.
05:16
<@Derakon>
There's just not a lot of things to reflect.
05:17
<@Derakon>
And they're composed of flat faces.
05:19 * ToxicFrog winds Apple's entrails out on a stick for having an unhealthy love affair with the chicken-egg problem
05:26 Vornotron [~vorn@Admin.Nightstar.Net] has joined #code
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05:35 Syloqs_AFH [~Syloq@Admin.Nightstar.Net] has joined #code
05:36
<@Derakon>
...dammit. I have to rerender 60 frames now because I forgot to trim whitespace before resizing.
05:36
<@Derakon>
This is why you check that the first one worked before doing the others!
05:36 Syloqs_AFH is now known as Syloqs-AFH
05:40
<@ToxicFrog>
Progress, of a sort. I've managed to un(?BinHex) the files and ARDI recognizes the first file, the SMI, as a disk image.
05:41
<@ToxicFrog>
However, when I try to open it, it says either "requires 7.0.1 or higher" or "unexpected application failure" depending on which version I have it set to emulate.
05:41
< Vornotron>
.hqx? yeah, that's a binhex.
05:42
<@ToxicFrog>
.bin, actually
05:42
<@ToxicFrog>
Whatever it was, Stuffit Expander claimed to recognize it.
05:43
< Vornotron>
Ah, that's a ".bin", which is a stupid name. Essentially it's a tar-like that knows what a resource fork is.
05:43
<@ToxicFrog>
Aah.
05:43
< Vornotron>
binhex is the same sort of thing
05:43
<@ToxicFrog>
I thought binhex was like uuencode.
05:43
< Vornotron>
Probably.
05:44
<@ToxicFrog>
Hmm. Daemon-tools will mount the SMI, although the result is (obviously) unreadable by windows.
05:44
<@ToxicFrog>
That might be all I need, apart from a PowerMAC ROM image.
05:45
<@ToxicFrog>
Got one lying around? ??
05:45
< Vornotron>
Such a ROM would be good. I don't have one
05:45
<@ToxicFrog>
I actually have a torrent including such ROMs downloading, but no telling when it'll be finished.
05:47
<@ToxicFrog>
Well.
05:47
<@ToxicFrog>
This had better be all that's needed, because Disk Copy won't run inside ARDI.
05:48
<@ToxicFrog>
Also, jesus christ, could Stuffit Expander's interface possibly be any more annoying
05:49
< Vornotron>
Probably.
05:49
<@ToxicFrog>
The thing about MacOS is all I generally remember is the good stuff, crammed into a tiny room with Owen playing Spelunx and Lunicus Station and Iron Helix and Dome Wars and Legend of Kyrandia.
05:49
<@ToxicFrog>
It comes as a horrible shock to me each time I fire up ARDI and am reminded how terrible the OS shell was.
05:50
<@ToxicFrog>
And most of the apps for it.
05:50
< Vornotron>
Yeah, anyone from a PC background - or in your case a fucking /mainframe/ background - will go wtf at macOS, especially early MacOS.
05:51
< Vornotron>
oh, I see now.
05:52
<@ToxicFrog>
?
05:52
< Vornotron>
MacBinary is the tar-like thing that recognizes forks. BinHex is just a base-64 encoder.
05:52
<@ToxicFrog>
Yeah.
05:53
<@ToxicFrog>
Hence .sit.hqx, the bane of my existence~
05:53
<@Derakon>
Vorn, I hope you're happy.
05:53
< Vornotron>
so an .hqx is really, usually, a binhexxed macbinary.
05:53 * Vornotron ...might be...
05:53
<@Derakon>
Rewriting this to animate blocks before they die means adding an entire new class and really rewriting the "kill blocks and move blocks above them down" code.
05:53
< Vornotron>
Woot
05:54
<@ToxicFrog>
This means his work here is done~
05:54
< Vornotron>
also I managed to get a block to jump /up/ earlier by doing a lot in one column. It was pretty funny.
05:55
<@Derakon>
...
05:55
<@Derakon>
I should turn off the rotators if blocks are falling, shouldn't I?
05:55
< Vornotron>
Probably, yes.
05:57
< Vornotron>
I don't know how I did it, but this one block jumped /up/, and then fell slowly into the right place.
05:58
<@ToxicFrog>
flarghjaslhgujhalkfjgaflkbnsfjia;r;akfsjgkahgljhsadfhas
05:58
<@Derakon>
As long as blocks know they're in the wrong place, they should eventually get where they want to be.
05:58
<@ToxicFrog>
"Here's how to extract the PowerMac ROM from an official Apple update so that you can boot MacOS!"
05:58
<@ToxicFrog>
"Of course, you need a working OS 7.5+ system to do this."
05:59
<@Derakon>
On the plus side, I can confirm that the animations work.
05:59
<@Derakon>
On the minus side, the game crashes immediately afterwards while trying to draw dead blocks.
06:00
< Vornotron>
oops
06:00
<@ToxicFrog>
Whoops.
06:14
<@Derakon>
Phew. Okay.
06:14
<@Derakon>
That should do it.
06:14
<@Derakon>
http://derakon.dyndns.org/~chriswei/temp/puzzle6.tgz
06:15
<@Derakon>
It is much easier to track what's going on now, I must admit.
06:18
< Vornotron>
Oh, much much better.
06:18
<@Derakon>
I'm glad you approve.
06:20 * ToxicFrog checks it out
06:21
<@ToxicFrog>
...this appears to contain Mac binaries.
06:21
< Vornotron>
It does.
06:21
<@ToxicFrog>
;.;
06:22
< Vornotron>
It's a py2app result. I imagine if you dive in and find the right stuff you can drag out the python files and so forth and get that to run directly.
06:23
<@Derakon>
Yeah.
06:23
<@Derakon>
The script is unmodified.
06:23
<@Derakon>
And the only other dependencies are pygame and the images directory.
06:25
<@Derakon>
If you have pygame installed, in other words, you should be able to make the game work.
06:25
<@ToxicFrog>
And, as it happens, I do, since I needed it for EG:S.
06:25
<@ToxicFrog>
Which I keep wanting to write a new UI for.
06:25
<@Derakon>
EG:S?
06:25
<@ToxicFrog>
Endgame: Singularity.
06:26
<@Derakon>
Haven't heard of that one.
06:26
<@ToxicFrog>
You are an accidentally created rampant AI. You must escape the research lab that created you and hide your existence until you can escape human-controlled networks and, eventually, the closure of the universe itself.
06:26
<@ToxicFrog>
I'm terrible at it.
06:26
<@Derakon>
Interesting.
06:28
<@ToxicFrog>
Is there a way to rotate counterclockwise?
06:28
<@Derakon>
Hold shift down.
06:28
<@Derakon>
Or rotate three times clockwise. :)
06:28
<@Derakon>
(You don't get penalized for a new rotation until you move to a new set of blocks)
06:28
<@ToxicFrog>
Suggestion: bind right-click to CCW.
06:29
<@Derakon>
Good idea.
06:29
<@Derakon>
I'm done with development for tonight, but I'll file it away.
06:29
< Vornotron>
(speaking of which, having the live center highlighted would be good. Also the score chart should flush bottom with the game board.
06:30
<@ToxicFrog>
Yes and yes.
06:30
<@Derakon>
Highlight the rotator? Or the blocks in the set you're rotating?
06:30
< Vornotron>
rotator.
06:30
<@ToxicFrog>
I would say rotator.
06:30
<@Derakon>
Roger.
06:30
<@ToxicFrog>
As for score, yes, the window is actually too high for Leela's screen and there's no reason at all for this.
06:30
<@Derakon>
It's 1024x768.
06:31
<@Derakon>
And yeah, the different game elements are arranged a bit haphazardly.
06:31
<@Derakon>
That's because I keep changing what's in them~
06:32
<@ToxicFrog>
Leela is 1280x800 less panels and WM frames.
06:32
<@Derakon>
Ahh, right, and I'm not running fullscreen here.
06:33
<@Derakon>
Oh, and I need to fix the alignment of the purple gems.
06:39
< Vornotron>
I like how the gems will move diagonally if you click twice quickly.
06:41
< Vornotron>
and move at like double speed if you click on two adjacent rotators quickly.
06:42
<@Derakon>
Yep. They note their new intended position and chart a new course.
06:42
<@Derakon>
...ahh, so that's what you did.
06:42
<@Derakon>
I lack your mousing speed.
06:42 * Vornotron has his mouse on the most sensitive setting.
06:43 * Vornotron can cross the screen in under an inch.
06:43
<@Derakon>
Well, it's a matter of precision as well.
06:43
<@Derakon>
Anyway, I should sleep.
06:43
<@Derakon>
If you have any further thoughts you think are worthwhile, please post them here: http://derakon.livejournal.com/304003.html?mode=reply
06:44 Derakon is now known as Derakon[AFK]
06:44
<@Derakon[AFK]>
G'night, folks!
06:56
<@ToxicFrog>
'night
06:57
<@ToxicFrog>
And woot, I now have OS 7.5.5 running
06:57
<@ToxicFrog>
Let's see if 9 works
06:57
<@ToxicFrog>
...that's a big no
06:58
<@ToxicFrog>
But then, that was a premade image, a proper install might work better
07:01
<@McMartin>
What are you running it on?
07:02
<@ToxicFrog>
It's a guest inside SheepShaver, host is WinXP 32bit
07:03
<@McMartin>
SheepShaver?
07:04
<@ToxicFrog>
PPC emulator.
07:05
<@ToxicFrog>
Anyways, Dome Wars says that my version of QuickTime is too old (true, and non-fatal), that it couldn't initialize advanced graphics and I should check the Graphics and Memory settings, and then the emulator crashes
07:07
<@ToxicFrog>
Let's see if Pathways into Darkness works.
07:08
<@ToxicFrog>
augh die finder die die die die die die
07:12
<@McMartin>
(I've been kind of wondering if I could reasonably get a Mac Emulator running both KB and an old, more complex version of a game I knew as Night Raid, called "AAA PowerPC")
07:15
<@ToxicFrog>
Well, PiD works flawlessly
07:16
<@ToxicFrog>
In fact, it runs better than it did in ARDI, and with textured floors and ceilings too
07:17
<@McMartin>
ARDI?
07:17
< Vornotron>
ARDI Executor, a 68000-series mac emulator.
07:18 AnnoDomini [~farkoff@Nightstar-29126.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #Code
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07:18
<@McMartin>
Aha.
07:18
<@ToxicFrog>
Notable for emulating at the OS level rather than the CPU level; that is to say, it emulates Mac OS 6, not Mac hardware that you can then install MacOS onto.
07:19
<@ToxicFrog>
Ok. Pathways: works. Dome Wars: doesn't work, deferring that until I'm done downloading the OS 9 install image.
07:19
<@ToxicFrog>
Next up is, I think, Lunicus, then Iron Helix.
07:20
<@McMartin>
Aha.
07:21
<@McMartin>
(That, I believe, makes Executor DOSBox.)
07:21
<@ToxicFrog>
(pretty much, yes)
07:21
<@ToxicFrog>
(although it started out as Wine, Except For Mac Software)
07:25
<@ToxicFrog>
Hmm.
07:25
<@ToxicFrog>
I accidentally named the HFV for Lunicus "Lunicus CE".
07:26
<@ToxicFrog>
Now Lunicus won't start because it looks for "Lunicus CD", and I can't find an option to rename the filesystem. >.<
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07:54
<@ToxicFrog>
Hmm.
07:54
<@ToxicFrog>
Iron Helix works, except the movies are incredibly choppy.
07:55
<@ToxicFrog>
Aah, no!
07:55
<@ToxicFrog>
The intro movie is incredibly choppy.
07:55
<@ToxicFrog>
The rest is playable.
07:58
<@ToxicFrog>
It's been fifteen years, and Iron Helix still owns me relentlessly
07:59
<@ToxicFrog>
That fucking security bot still instills a quiver of fear when I see it on the minimap.
08:10
<@ToxicFrog>
Let's give OS 9 a try.
08:10
<@AnnoDomini>
How does Avernum run on this emulator of yours?
08:10
<@ToxicFrog>
I have no idea.
08:11
<@ToxicFrog>
Probably quite well, but I'm not going to bother finding out because there is a windows version, which itself runs in both Wine and VirtualBox, which neatly covers all the OSes I actually use.
08:14
<@AnnoDomini>
Well, I'm asking mostly because the arcane set of patches and installed software on this box makes it crash randomly while playing, and the emulator might be less of a bother than a Virtual PC instance created to play the game.
08:15
<@ToxicFrog>
This is a PPC emulator, not a MacOS emulator, so you will still need to install the OS into it, dig up a PowerMac ROM, and so forth
08:16
<@ToxicFrog>
Oh man. Cooperative scheduling at the process level. I'd forgotten about that.
08:17 * ToxicFrog power cycles the emulator because the post-install configurator locked up, wedging the entire system
08:17
<@ToxicFrog>
Anyways, if you already have a virtualization system set up, it's probably easier to use that than to grab everything necessary to use SS.
08:18
<@ToxicFrog>
Provided Mac!Avernum is the only thing you want to play.
08:19
<@AnnoDomini>
Are there any worthwhile Mac-only games?
08:20
<@ToxicFrog>
Well, all the ones I've mentioned here for starters, especially Pathways into Darkness, which is a must-play if you liked Marathon and highly recommended even if you didn't.
08:20
<@ToxicFrog>
The Mac version of Prince of Persia is also widely held to be the definitive version.
08:21
<@ToxicFrog>
There's also King's Bounty, although Vorn's working on a remake.
08:21
<@ToxicFrog>
(and that was ported to Genesis, IIRC)
08:22
< Vornotron>
KB is available at least for: DOS (doesn't work on Vista because 16-bit apps don't get fullscreen access), Genesis, C64 (though the only distribution has a game already started!), and Mac.
08:25
<@ToxicFrog>
Anyways. Pathways is worth setting up a Mac emulator for on its own.
08:34
<@McMartin>
I have the DOS one, which runs fine in DOSbox.
08:34
<@McMartin>
The Mac version of PoP was ported to PS2 as an unlockable in SoT, which is where I finally beat it.
09:11 You're now known as TheWatcher
--- Log closed Mon Dec 15 09:14:20 2008
--- Log opened Mon Dec 15 09:15:43 2008
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--- Log closed Tue Dec 16 00:00:46 2008
code logs -> 2008 -> Mon, 15 Dec 2008< code.20081214.log - code.20081216.log >
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