| --- Log opened Sun Oct 19 00:00:17 2008 |
| 00:00 | | You're now known as TheWatcher[zZzZ] |
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| 09:58 | <@Doctor_Nick> | MOTHER 3 |
| 09:59 | <@Doctor_Nick> | WOOO |
| 10:04 | | You're now known as TheWatcher |
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| 14:41 | < Attilla> | Putty is a fine SSH terminal :) |
| 14:42 | <@AnnoDomini> | Yus. |
| 14:42 | < Attilla> | *PuTTY |
| 14:42 | <@AnnoDomini> | A PuTTY is fine too. |
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| 17:26 | | You're now known as TheWatcher[afk[ |
| 17:26 | | You're now known as TheWatcher[afk] |
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| 18:47 | | ErikMesoy [~ejm@Nightstar-1300.bb.online.no] has joined #code |
| 18:48 | < ErikMesoy> | I will be learning C++ soon. I am a noob at this. Begin recruiting me for your holy wars of compilers, development environments et al. ;) |
| 18:48 | < FurryHelix> | lol |
| 18:49 | | Vash [~Vash@Nightstar-28835.dsl.sndg02.sbcglobal.net] has joined #code |
| 18:50 | < FurryHelix> | Erik: gcc, vim + bash. :P |
| 18:50 | < ErikMesoy> | Hah. |
| 18:50 | < FurryHelix> | heyo Vash |
| 18:50 | < Vash> | Hello. |
| 18:50 | < ErikMesoy> | I will be working on Windows. I have heard good things about Code::Blocks. |
| 18:53 | <@gnolam> | Yes. C::B is quite good. |
| 18:54 | <@gnolam> | But if you're going Windows exclusive, just install Visual Studio. |
| 18:55 | | * FurryHelix blinks at the price of VisualStudio... |
| 18:56 | <@gnolam> | 0. |
| 18:56 | < FurryHelix> | ?568. o.o |
| 18:56 | <@gnolam> | http://www.microsoft.com/express/download/default.aspx |
| 18:57 | < FurryHelix> | fair enough. |
| 18:57 | < FurryHelix> | I had my copy supplied through college. :3 |
| 18:57 | < FurryHelix> | just... half a grand for that? *sigh* |
| 18:58 | <@gnolam> | Which reminds me to go get the latest MSVS through MSDNAA. |
| 18:58 | < ErikMesoy> | I am under the impression that using Visual Studio will bind me to Windows for the indefinite future because it uses nonstandard and noncompliant stuff. |
| 19:03 | < FurryHelix> | have you looked at Dev-Cpp? |
| 19:05 | < ErikMesoy> | Yes. It looked decent, but I wasn't sure how to pick one from the many available, so I sort of went here and signed up to be recruited into the holy wars for lack of a better tiebreaker. ;) |
| 19:05 | < FurryHelix> | hehehe |
| 19:06 | <@AnnoDomini> | Use Borland 3.0. :P |
| 19:06 | < ErikMesoy> | Noxy: Most common with people saying "would of" or "could of". |
| 19:06 | < ErikMesoy> | Err, mischan. |
| 19:08 | | * gnolam slaps FurryHelix. HARD. |
| 19:08 | <@gnolam> | Sorry. I do that with people who recommend Dev-C++ to people. :P |
| 19:08 | <@gnolam> | ErikMesoy: so does GCC. |
| 19:09 | | * FurryHelix chews on the slapping hand/paw/tentacle/misc. appendage. |
| 19:09 | <@gnolam> | Nothing's preventing /you/ from writing standards-compliant C++. |
| 19:10 | <@gnolam> | But let me take this opportunity to state for the record that the MSDNAA downloader sucks cold donkey cock. :P |
| 19:10 | < ErikMesoy> | I see the holy wars are beginning. |
| 19:11 | <@gnolam> | (Microsoft, here's a hint to developing usable download agents: state the goddamned download speed) |
| 19:11 | < FurryHelix> | hehe |
| 19:11 | <@gnolam> | (And let me point out that this is the same mistake IE did prior to, IIRC, 3.0) |
| 19:12 | < FurryHelix> | you mean that MS products have ever showed the download speed rather than that silly "x minutes remaining", which is spends 5 minutes calculating? |
| 19:12 | < FurryHelix> | it* |
| 19:13 | <@gnolam> | This thing doesn't even give a time estimate. |
| 19:13 | < FurryHelix> | ... |
| 19:14 | <@gnolam> | See previous statement about asinine penises. |
| 19:14 | < FurryHelix> | and you have to use it? |
| 19:14 | <@gnolam> | Yes. |
| 19:15 | <@gnolam> | But looking at the downloaded file, it seems to be going at ~2 MB/s, which isn't too shabby. |
| 19:15 | <@AnnoDomini> | ErikMesoy: In the rare instances when I do C++, I use the MinGW compiler, batch files and Notepad2. |
| 19:16 | < ErikMesoy> | I will look at Dev-C++ and MinGW more closely, then. |
| 19:18 | <@gnolam> | No. Stay the fuck away from Dev-C++. |
| 19:18 | <@gnolam> | If you need a GCC IDE, use Code::Blocks. |
| 19:19 | <@gnolam> | Dev-C++ is made of bugs and fail. |
| 19:19 | <@AnnoDomini> | I find that for my purposes, I don't need an IDE. |
| 19:19 | < ErikMesoy> | I'm not sure I'll need an IDE either. |
| 19:20 | <@gnolam> | But if you don't need C99 support and you're /only/ developing on Windows, MSVS is really the better choice. |
| 19:21 | < FurryHelix> | gnolam: it's made of bugs and fail? |
| 19:21 | <@gnolam> | Since with MinGW, your choice is either a non-production ready compiler or one that's 4 years old. |
| 19:21 | <@gnolam> | Yes. |
| 19:21 | < FurryHelix> | o.o |
| 19:21 | < FurryHelix> | it's worked fine for me. |
| 19:22 | <@gnolam> | Dev-C++ is an unstable piece of junk with more quirks than even anything that's labelled "industry standard". |
| 19:22 | < FurryHelix> | references, plz. |
| 19:22 | < FurryHelix> | :P |
| 19:22 | <@AnnoDomini> | gnolam: Well, I don't think you really need a SOTA compiler for learning the basics of a language. |
| 19:22 | < ErikMesoy> | Hmm. Can you people come to something more of a consensus if I ask for a minimalist, standards-complaint compiler, no IDE? |
| 19:22 | <@gnolam> | On the programming forum I hang out way too much at, most of the newbie problems can be traced back to... people using Dev-C++. |
| 19:22 | < FurryHelix> | Erik: gcc. |
| 19:23 | <@gnolam> | ErikMesoy: Yes. Just MinGW. |
| 19:23 | < FurryHelix> | gnolam: they must just be morons then. |
| 19:23 | < ErikMesoy> | What does Dev-C++ do that's so bad, allow "void main"? :P |
| 19:23 | <@gnolam> | Dev-C++ is an /IDE/. Not a compiler. |
| 19:23 | <@gnolam> | MinGW is the compiler. |
| 19:23 | <@gnolam> | Which in turn is the Windows port of GCC. |
| 19:23 | < ErikMesoy> | Err. Never mind, brain fart. |
| 19:24 | <@gnolam> | Or rather, the red-headed stepchild of GCC, but that's another discussion. |
| 19:24 | < FurryHelix> | oi, I'm a redhead. |
| 19:25 | | * ErikMesoy gets GCC and MinGW. |
| 19:26 | < ErikMesoy> | Hmm. |
| 19:26 | | FurryHelix [~tamber@213.40.110.ns-21672] has left #code ["Lord, give me the grace to accept what I cannot change, the courage to change what I should, the wisdom to know the latter from the former... and a 2x4 to get the message across to the starfish"] |
| 19:26 | <@gnolam> | Let me guess: you've come to MinGW's abomination of a web page, and you don't know how to find what to download? |
| 19:26 | | * AnnoDomini laughs. |
| 19:27 | < ErikMesoy> | Yes. |
| 19:27 | <@AnnoDomini> | Had the same problem. |
| 19:27 | < ErikMesoy> | Apparently I should visit their SourceForge page? |
| 19:27 | <@AnnoDomini> | I can probably DCC. |
| 19:27 | < ErikMesoy> | I can't probably receive. |
| 19:28 | <@AnnoDomini> | Seems like. |
| 19:28 | < ErikMesoy> | 136 kB? |
| 19:29 | <@AnnoDomini> | I think it's an installer. |
| 19:29 | <@AnnoDomini> | As in something that downloads the proper files. |
| 19:29 | < ErikMesoy> | That's not going to work. My Windows partition is isolated from the Internet. (Crude measure, I know.) |
| 19:30 | <@AnnoDomini> | I see... |
| 19:30 | < ErikMesoy> | I think I've found the correct bits on SourceForge, though. |
| 19:30 | <@AnnoDomini> | Cool. |
| 19:30 | <@gnolam> | Yes. You see, the MinGW developers spent the last couple of years not working on the compiler but instead switching to a godawful net installer. |
| 19:30 | <@AnnoDomini> | I'm not sure which of these archives I have is the actual installation archive. |
| 19:30 | <@gnolam> | Have I mentioned how little faith I have in them nowadays? |
| 19:31 | < ErikMesoy> | No. Do tell. |
| 19:35 | < ErikMesoy> | What, you aren't taking an invitation to rant on something? :P |
| 19:36 | <@AnnoDomini> | Relax. gnolam practices entspeak. |
| 19:39 | < ErikMesoy> | "Installation information can be found on the Download page." <-- this appears to be typical of MinGW's page. |
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| 20:35 | < ErikMesoy> | Thanks, anyway. |
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| 22:35 | <@gnolam> | Deus Ex: Paris - when you thought the voice acting couldn't get any worse. |
| 22:35 | < Shoukanjuu> | Yeah. |
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| 22:44 | < Shoukanjuu> | Let's see...PAris...you start at Dowd's...or...no |
| 22:45 | < Shoukanjuu> | You start at that building, then pop up at the street |
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| 23:12 | <@gnolam> | Hmm. One of the questions on an old exam has you assign skill points to various members of a development team. |
| 23:12 | < Shoukanjuu> | >_> |
| 23:12 | <@gnolam> | I'm now seriously considering creating a "Dungeons & Developers" game. |
| 23:12 | <@McMartin> | Debuggers & Developers |
| 23:12 | <@gnolam> | Even better. :D |
| 23:13 | < Shoukanjuu> | Everyone has everything is "Weapons: Low Tech" |
| 23:13 | <@gnolam> | McMartin: that would make it PvP. :) |
| 23:13 | < Shoukanjuu> | Even better? |
| 23:14 | <@McMartin> | Most tabletop games allow for PvP~ |
| 23:15 | <@gnolam> | But if you account for Kernighan's law, all the Debuggers would have way more INT than the Developers. It'd be hard to balance. |
| 23:15 | <@jerith> | gnolam: Let the devs have high int. |
| 23:15 | <@jerith> | They just end up with their bugs in production. |
| 23:16 | <@gnolam> | (Kernighan's Law: "Debugging is twice as hard as writing the code in the first place. Therefore, if you write the code as cleverly as possible, you are, by definition, not smart enough to debug it.") |
| 23:16 | | You're now known as TheWatcher[T-2] |
| 23:16 | <@jerith> | gnolam: Quite. |
| 23:17 | <@McMartin> | Debuggers are applications, like compilers~ |
| 23:18 | <@gnolam> | Which definitely wouldn't preclude them from having higher intelligence than the average coder. |
| 23:19 | | * McMartin actually suspects Debugging is more of a WIS check. |
| 23:19 | | You're now known as TheWatcher[zZzZ] |
| 23:19 | <@McMartin> | Especially since WIS is the base for Perception. |
| 23:19 | < Shoukanjuu> | Yeah. |
| 23:19 | | * McMartin is also an enormous nerd, yes. |
| 23:25 | <@gnolam> | Dude, you write IF. We never doubted that. ;) |
| 23:25 | | * jerith reallly must find time to work on Battle Stations. |
| 23:26 | | * Vornicus must find the concentration to work on any of his toys. |
| 23:35 | < Shoukanjuu> | So I won a PS2 on Ebay. |
| 23:37 | <@McMartin> | KATAMARI'D |
| 23:37 | < Shoukanjuu> | I need games. |
| 23:37 | <@gnolam> | jerith: ? |
| 23:38 | <@McMartin> | Lots of bargain bins and new presses of classics. |
| 23:38 | <@jerith> | gnolam: Battle Stations is my steampunk IF. |
| 23:38 | <@McMartin> | Top Brawler: Devil May Cry 3: Special Edition |
| 23:38 | <@McMartin> | Top WTF Exclusive: Katamari Damacy |
| 23:38 | <@McMartin> | Top Shooters: Gradius V, R-Type Final |
| 23:38 | <@jerith> | It has an effete British sky navy. It has a battledirigible. |
| 23:39 | <@gnolam> | Oooh! |
| 23:39 | <@jerith> | It does not yet have Wodehousian aunts. |
| 23:39 | <@McMartin> | Alien Hominid will be hard to find but you may have already played it on the Cube. |
| 23:40 | < Shoukanjuu> | DMC series, R-type. |
| 23:40 | < Shoukanjuu> | I'm grabbing isos before they become impossible to find. |
| 23:40 | <@McMartin> | DMC1 is IMO not very playable. |
| 23:40 | <@McMartin> | Everybody hates DMC2 |
| 23:41 | < Shoukanjuu> | Is it a hard game? |
| 23:41 | <@McMartin> | DMC1 is hard for bad reasons |
| 23:41 | < Shoukanjuu> | Such as? |
| 23:41 | < Shoukanjuu> | PM, btw. |
| 23:41 | <@ToxicFrog> | The Goddamn Capcom Camera Angles Of Doom |
| 23:41 | <@McMartin> | DMC3 is hard for good reasons, and DMC3SE has better difficulty scaling. |
| 23:41 | <@McMartin> | The fact that it's possible to bypass powerups and if you do they are Gone Forever. |
| 23:41 | <@McMartin> | (DMC3 lets you revisit levels) |
| 23:42 | <@McMartin> | These "powerups" include things that are supposed to be basic classes of attacks. |
| 23:42 | < Shoukanjuu> | How fun. |
| 23:42 | <@McMartin> | DMC3 has more directly vicious battles. |
| 23:42 | <@ToxicFrog> | Other recommendations: Disgaea (and the rest of Nippon Ichi's output), if you like TRPGs; Okami (unless you have a Wii and plan to get that version); Shadow Hearts & SH Covenant, Grandia 2, and possibly FFX and FFXII if you like CRPGs; Valkyrie Profile 2; Mercenaries: PoD; Fatal Frame (or FF 2, which has a non-brutal-rape difficulty mode). |
| 23:42 | < Shoukanjuu> | this site has....DMC3 only. I'll find the otherr two elsewhere. Special edition, too. Lucky. |
| 23:42 | <@ToxicFrog> | Ico and Shadow of the Colossus, because awesome |
| 23:43 | <@McMartin> | More Ico than Shadow, though, I note. |
| 23:43 | <@McMartin> | Shadow is something of an acquired taste |
| 23:43 | <@ToxicFrog> | I am actually preferring Shadow |
| 23:43 | <@McMartin> | Ico was the game that sparked the modern era of gaming, imo. "THIS IS WHAT YOU CAN DO WITH 3D" |
| 23:43 | < Shoukanjuu> | Disgaea, Odin Sphere... |
| 23:43 | <@ToxicFrog> | It more directly engages my taste for puzzles. |
| 23:44 | <@ToxicFrog> | Yes, Odin Sphere, but play before you buy to see if you can stand the lag on some levels. |
| 23:44 | < Shoukanjuu> | Played/beat Okami on the Wii, it didn't impress...FFx and FFX-2, I atually own FFXII because I played it on my brother's PS3... |
| 23:44 | < Shoukanjuu> | Heehee, buy. |
| 23:44 | | * ToxicFrog baps Shou |
| 23:45 | < Shoukanjuu> | These games are impossible to find, I'm not damaging the industry, leave me out of it ;_; |
| 23:45 | <@ToxicFrog> | McMartin: "basic classes of attack"? I thought the only missables were blue orb fragments and the Nightmare Beta. |
| 23:45 | <@McMartin> | I missed the shotgun. |
| 23:45 | <@McMartin> | Got stuck on stage 4 |
| 23:45 | <@McMartin> | Checked walkthrough. |
| 23:46 | <@McMartin> | Had to start over. |
| 23:46 | <@McMartin> | Was not amused. |
| 23:46 | <@McMartin> | (Didn't have a save at every level because I didn't realize I'd need one) |
| 23:46 | <@ToxicFrog> | Shoukanjuu: Odin Sphere is still very easy to find. VP2 slightly hard. Fatal Frame 2 is very easy to find. |
| 23:46 | <@ToxicFrog> | Not all of those games are findable, but a lot are. |
| 23:46 | <@ToxicFrog> | McMartin: aah. |
| 23:46 | <@ToxicFrog> | I didn't miss the shotgun, and kept saves at each level as a matter of course. |
| 23:46 | < Shoukanjuu> | But some are not findable. |
| 23:46 | <@ToxicFrog> | But yes, DMC3 Does This Much Better. |
| 23:47 | < Shoukanjuu> | So I'm saving the time and gas of finding one, plus I have ? hundreds of DVDs |
| 23:47 | <@McMartin> | DMC3SE also has Gold Orbs. |
| 23:47 | <@ToxicFrog> | Oh yes. And the Ratchet and Clank games. |
| 23:48 | <@McMartin> | The Sly Cooper games are also fun. |
| 23:48 | <@McMartin> | R&C is a blasting platformer, Sly Cooper is a stealth platformer. |
| 23:48 | <@ToxicFrog> | And God of War. |
| 23:48 | <@ToxicFrog> | Maaaaaybe Front Mission 4, too. |
| 23:48 | < Shoukanjuu> | I hear Front mission 5 is the best. |
| 23:48 | <@ToxicFrog> | That suffers from the fact that it has two intertwining storylines, they're both mandatory, and one of them sucks hugely. |
| 23:48 | < Shoukanjuu> | Adn there is a fan translation. |
| 23:49 | <@ToxicFrog> | (which annoys me, because FM4 had huge gameplay and interface improvements over 3. But I spent half my time praying for the deaths of everyone on screen.) |
| 23:50 | < Shoukanjuu> | I *suppose* I should grab the KH series, too, but I *really* don't care about it much. |
| 23:51 | <@McMartin> | I know you like space shooters, so I guess I also need to mention Silpheed: The Lost Planet. |
| 23:51 | <@McMartin> | But it's pretty meh |
| 23:51 | <@ToxicFrog> | SOP. Download them, buy them if you can and you like them. |
| 23:51 | <@ToxicFrog> | Personally, they didn't do it for me. |
| 23:51 | < Shoukanjuu> | TF: Yeah, I usually buy games I enjoy....if I can find them for cheap |
| 23:52 | < Shoukanjuu> | Ikaruga is still worth 40 dollars on the gamecube >_> |
| 23:59 | < Shoukanjuu> | I don't know why I do, though. |
| --- Log closed Mon Oct 20 00:00:05 2008 |